We're Not Marketers

If you're tired of building landing pages that follow "best practices" but still fail to convert qualified leads, this episode will change everything. Whether you're a product marketer afraid of paid ads or a demand gen specialist struggling to get PMM buy-in, this episode will help you create pages that actually respect your buyers' intelligence while driving real business results.  This week, we've joined by Tas Bober, growth marketing advisor and Scroll Lab founder. She reveals why the traditional approach to landing pages and sales collateral is fundamentally broken.We're covering:Why most B2B landing pages look identical (and why everyone hates them)How hiding pricing backfires when buyers find wildly different answers on RedditThe simple reason most CTAs fail (and it has nothing to do with the button text)How B2B companies waste countless hours debating stock photos instead of fixing real problemsThe contrarian approach: Why a good landing page should DECREASE your conversion rate"No one buys pants on the first visit" - Why optimizing for direct conversions is misguidedHow to build a freelance business: "Back up your backup" and why your career hinges on your networkIn this episode, Tas explains to the misfits her "champion's business case" framework that replaces manipulative marketing tactics with transparent, value-focused content. She delivers practical wisdom for creating landing pages that treat buyers like adults. Listen for actionable insights on disqualifying bad-fit leads, writing effective CTAs, and building a foundation for freelance success beyond the corporate grind.Timestamps:02:43 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?03:38 "Product Marketers Are CEOs, Baby" - Why PMMs Run the Show07:00 The Biggest Red Flags on Landing Pages09:00 The Champion's Business Case Framework for Landing Pages12:25 What a Complete Business Case Contains14:25 Why PMMs Don't Like Paid Ads (But Should)17:00 Why PMMs Should Be Involved in Campaign Landing Pages22:00 How to Create Effective CTAs That Actually Convert27:00 Why Hiding Pricing Information Backfires31:12 The Truth About B2B Buying Behavior (It's Not What You Think)37:15 Why Good Landing Pages Decrease Conversion Rates45:00 How B2B Sales Collateral Overwhelms Buyers48:03 The MVP Approach to Landing Pages for Resource-Strapped PMMs54:15 The Problem with Obsessing Over Stock Photography57:22 How to Build a Successful Solo Consulting Business01:01:12 Building Your Network as Your Net WorthShow Notes:Tas LinkedInHer B2B website and landing page resource hub Tas Website Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Lashay Lewis, a content strategy advisor with expertise in bridging product and content marketing, discusses the critical gap in bottom-of-funnel strategies. She explains how siloed teams hinder effective content creation and why product marketers are often overlooked heroes in this space. Listeners learn about the pitfalls of generic content and why it's essential for writers to understand their audience. Lashay also shares insights on transitioning to consulting and the mindset shifts that can lead to career transformation.

Is your win-loss data just expensive fiction written by your sales team? In this episode, Ryan Sorley (ex-Forrester, ex-Gartner) joins the crew to expose the hard truth about buyer research. From ripped jeans costing deals to bootstrapping a business while juggling kids and payroll, Ryan doesn't hold back on his journey from corporate misery to specialized success. Oh, and we uncovered the stupidly simple reason most product marketers fail at research. Tune in for honest laughs, real insights, and maybe a wake-up call about your "data."In this episode, we're covering:How to run a solo business when you have kids and bills to payThe "Taylor Swift Squad" theory of business growthWhy most buyer research is just wishful thinking with fancy graphsThe Powder Blue Taurus Moment: when Ryan knew corporate life was BSWhy writing a business plan is a complete waste of time for solopreneursHow Ryan went from 0 to 100 clients with ZERO salespeopleCheck out his new book Blindspots on Amazon too! Timestamps:01:00 Introducing Ryan Sorley, Win-Loss Research Expert02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:15 Ryan's Take on Product Marketing as Research06:45 The Importance of Intentional Research10:00 The "Superpower" of Win-Loss Analysis12:34 The HubSpot Ripped Jeans Story17:15 Ryan's Entrepreneurial Journey19:00 The NJ Turnpike Moment: When Ryan Knew Corporate Life Wasn't for Him21:00 How Ryan Discovered the Win-Loss Opportunity23:45 Ryan's Transition from Gartner to Entrepreneurship27:00 What's the Minimum Viable Plan for Going Solo?30:00 The "Squad Life" Approach to Client Relationships34:00 The Dark Times: Managing Cash Flow and Contractors39:00 Specialization vs. Generalization in Consulting42:45 Ryan's New Book: "Blind Spots" (Launch April 1st)44:30 Closing Remarks and FarewellShow Notes:Ryan's LinkedInBlindspots on AmazonHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Tired of ineffective message testing? This discussion uncovers why many product marketers are missing the mark, with only 30% ever testing messages correctly. A/B testing is deemed a cop-out, while testing multiple variables is likened to chaos in the kitchen. Discover the crucial distinction between message testing and A/B testing, and learn how to craft a framework that gets buy-in from leadership. Plus, enjoy hilarious analogies about cooking that parallel the frustrations of marketing clarity. Get ready to refine your messaging strategy!

In this engaging conversation, Michele Nieberding, Director of Product Marketing at Metarouter and two-time Top 100 PMM, returns to challenge common misconceptions about product marketers. She discusses how AI is revolutionizing the role, shares tactical insights on collaborating with sales, and explains the importance of disqualifying bad leads. Michele also dives into the launch hamster wheel that traps PMMs and the rise of the VP of Product Marketing, all while mixing in humorous analogies about dating mishaps. Get ready for essential PMM trends for 2024!

Product marketers with a sales background often feel like they have a superpower. The opposite is even truer.Kyle Coleman, CMO at Copy.ai, says yes—and he’s got the career journey to back it up. From SDR to marketing exec, Kyle breaks down why sales and marketing are inseparable, how storytelling (not the best product) wins markets, and why staying close to revenue is the key to career growth. Plus, he shares how he personally closed $350K in outbound sales while leading marketing.✅ Why storytelling—not features—wins markets (just ask Salesforce).✅ The biggest mistake most product marketers make when trying to prove their impact.✅ Sales and marketing: two sides of the same coin or completely different beasts?✅ Why the best PMMs own the revenue conversation.✅ The "ivory tower" trap that kills product marketing impact.✅ Kyle’s secret to getting buy-in from execs for category creation (hint: 75+ interviews).✅ A real-life sales deck fail—and how Kyle fixed it by actually selling.✅ The #1 piece of career advice for product marketers who want to be CMOs.If you're a product marketer aiming for the CMO seat, this episode is your playbook. 🔥Timespan:00:00 Introduction to the Podcast00:16 Meet the Hosts00:56 Introducing the Guest: Kyle Coleman01:53 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:18 Sales and Marketing: A Unified Perspective05:40 Kyle's Journey from SDR to CMO07:42 The Importance of Staying Close to Revenue12:10 Internal Buy-In and Category Definition15:11 Advice for Aspiring CMOs19:12 Using AI in Marketing Strategy21:28 AI in Sales Enablement22:40 Impact Over Quantity23:57 Real-World Example: Transitioning to Enterprise25:49 Hiring the Right Product Marketer30:29 Marketing as a Leadership Function34:51 Advice for Product Marketing Candidates39:06 Kyle's Side Projects and Copy AI41:45 Final Thoughts and Career Growth TipsShow Notes:Kyle's LinkedIn ProfileCopy.aiChristopher Lochhead’s "Position Yourself or Be Positioned"Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

We’re kicking off season 4 with Chanel Chambers, VP of Marketing at Lakeside Software. As a product marketing leader and past music teacher, she’s joining us to break down the role of product marketing, why it's central to a business’s success, and how PMMs can increase their influence. From jazz improvisation to AI-driven business strategies, Chanel shares fresh insights on how product marketers can start treating their role with a business holistic approach and how to create credibility internally AND externally. We’re talked about:🔹 Why product marketers sit at the center of the entire marketing mix🔹 How PMMs can transition from order takers to strategic influencers🔹 The “Land, Expand, Retain” framework every PMM needs to master🔹 What jazz musicians and product marketers have in common🔹 How to build credibility and navigate internal conflicts with confidence🔹 Why business fluency is the key to PMM influence (hint: know your numbers!)🔹 The difference between activities vs. outcomes—and why PMMs should focus on the latter🔹 Why AI isn’t changing what businesses need, just how they get there🔹 The biggest mistake PMMs make when presenting ICP and personasListen now to get a fresh perspective on how to elevate your role and make a real impact as a PMM! 🎧Timespan:00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions00:55 Special Guest Introduction: Chanel Chambers02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?03:33 The Role of Product Marketing in Business09:52 Frameworks and Problem-Solving in Product Marketing16:03 Outcome-Based Metrics vs. Activity-Based Metrics18:37 Navigating Organizational Goals and Stakeholders23:04 Understanding the Role of Personas24:24 The Importance of Insights Over Reports25:50 Practicing Influence as a PMM26:33 Curiosity and Ambiguity in PMM34:38 Navigating Internal Conflicts39:47 Final Thoughts and FarewellShow Notes:Chanel LinkedInHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In this special recap, we dive into what it really means to be a product marketer in the ever-evolving B2B SaaS space—from defining the role to gaining the trust of executives and product teams. Hear first-hand advice on establishing boundaries, shaping product roadmaps, and showcasing your unique value. Tune in to discover how you can go from feeling misunderstood to being the unignorable voice in your organization.Why product marketing often feels misunderstood—and how to change that.The “secret sauce” to defining your role so everyone, from sales to CEOs, sees your impact.Strategies for sitting in a “neutral” spot on the org chart (and why it’s a dream setup).Insider tips for positioning your product before it’s built—so buyers are ready to say “yes.”How to set healthy boundaries with tasks that aren’t in your zone of genius.This episode is featuring episodes clips from Tamara Grominsky, Dave Gerhardt, and April Dunford.Give it a listen prior to season 4 launching in 2 weeks! Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Product marketing and content marketing—are they allies, or just frenemies in disguise? In this episode, Devin Reed (ex-Gong, ex-Clari, and host of Read Between the Lines) joins the crew to dish out his hot takes on the tension between PMMs and content marketers, why most messaging decks collect dust, and the real secret to making content that resonates. If you’ve ever questioned whether product marketing is actually marketing (or just internal storytelling), this one’s for you.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:→ The biggest mistake product marketers make when handing messaging to content teams→ Why most positioning and messaging decks never make it into real-world content→ The secret to testing messaging before betting big on a full campaign→ How to bridge the gap between internal messaging and market-facing storytelling→ The power of creative freedom—why it’s the ultimate flex in B2B marketing→ The “two-sentence test” for making sure your messaging actually lands→ When it’s too candid—how to balance bold positioning with market perception→ How to write messaging that actually reflects what customers sayListen now to hear Devin unfiltered take on product marketing, messaging mistakes, and how to win the content game.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Host Welcome02:00 Introducing the Special Guest: Devin Reed04:13 Devin Reed's Insights on Product Marketing06:00 The Relationship Between Content and Product Marketing14:51 Testing and Differentiating Marketing Strategies23:57 Creative Freedom in B2B Marketing26:23 Writing for Yourself: A Sales Rep's Perspective26:57 Creating Relatable and Memorable Content28:12 The Power of Sales Team Collaboration28:55 The Heat Check: Testing Content Ideas29:35 Maniacal Focus on Quality Content29:59 The Importance of Clear and Concise Messaging31:40 Understanding Your Audience's Language34:37 Navigating Internal Approval Processes36:32 Leveraging Customer Insights for Copywriting43:14 The Creative Process: From Inspiration to Execution48:34 Final Thoughts and Upcoming ProjectsShow Notes:The Reeder WebsiteReed between the lines podcastDevin’s LinkedIn Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Ever wondered how a band of misfits turned shared frustrations into a thriving podcast? In this episode, we’re sharing our origin story, revealing how they met, bonded over common pain points in the product marketing world, and turned candid conversations into a platform that challenges industry norms. Packed with spicy takes, behind-the-scenes laughs, and actionable advice, this episode is a testament to the power of finding your people and staying true to your vision. How PMM frustrations sparked the idea for the We're Not Marketers podcast.How we’ve turned banter and venting sessions into a thriving community.The secret to developing a contrarian yet authentic point of view.Why we stand out in a crowded product marketing landscape.Message testing and building a relatable brand voice.Tune in to discover why authenticity, fun, and a unique point of view are the ultimate game-changers.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Episode Context01:32 Meet the Hosts01:59 How We Met and Formed the Podcast02:34 The Organic Evolution of the Show04:13 Challenges and Dynamics of Product Marketing06:52 Developing a Unique Point of View09:46 Contrarian Perspectives and Testing Ideas12:57 The Role and Identity of Product Marketers21:11 Positioning and Future of Product Marketing24:23 Tattoos in the Workplace: A Changing Perspective25:09 Belief in Our Mission: Every Day Commitment26:08 Navigating Skepticism and Valuing Disagreement26:51 Embracing Learning and Marketing Communities30:04 The Freedom of Creative Expression35:03 The Importance of Fun in Work40:40 Stoic Wisdom and Final ThoughtsShow Notes:Navattic - State of the Interactive Demo 2025Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.