The Leadership Podcast

Siri Chilazi is a senior researcher at the Women in Public Policy Program at Harvard Kennedy School, and co-author of "Make Work Fair: Data-Driven Design for Real Results." She helps organizations bridge the gap between research and practice using evidence-based approaches to workplace fairness. In this episode, Siri explains why workplace fairness requires redesigning systems rather than changing people, demonstrating how structured processes like predetermined interview questions produce less biased results than open-ended conversations. She argues that organizations must analyze workforce data to reveal bias patterns in hiring, feedback quality, and career advancement, treating fairness metrics with the same rigor as financial data in business decisions. Siri presents evidence from studies showing that traditional diversity training fails to change actual behavior despite positive participant feedback. She recommends structural alternatives like specific performance evaluation prompts, automated feedback reminders, and technology tools that flag biased language in assessments. She advocates for opt-out promotion systems that automatically evaluate eligible employees rather than requiring them to self-advocate, sharing how this approach increased women and people of color's advancement rates. Siri outlines her three-part framework: "Make it Count" through data tracking, "Make it Stick" via small process tweaks, and "Make it Normal" by shaping workplace culture through individual actions and standards. Siri addresses resistance management by framing fairness discussions around business results rather than ideology, explaining how even skeptical leaders find evidence-based approaches make practical sense for organizational success. In this episode, you’ll discover practical, evidence-based strategies for creating fairer workplaces through smart system design rather than individual behavior change.   You can find episode 479 on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [03:21] Siri reveals it's much faster, easier, often cheaper, and more effective to change surrounding environments rather than individual brains. [04:59] Siri describes a more effective approach involving asking all candidates the same set of questions in the same order and assessing answers comparatively. [07:07] Siri confirms fairness was chosen intentionally because research shows it's a universally shared human value globally that fairness resonates with leaders because it's impossible to spot talent accurately without it. [09:52] Siri clarifies data can be a powerful engine for change only if actively harnessed and analyzed to reveal insights. [13:48] Siri outlines how organizations should ask whether employees get feedback of the same length and spend different amounts of time at given ranks before promotion. [16:15] Siri explains bias tends to creep into potential assessments because they're more subjective with less formal data. [17:39] Siri confirms more than half a century's worth of studies showing diversity training basically doesn't shift people's behavior making performance evaluation prompts more specific and close-ended as a more effective approach. [23:30] Siri describes opt-out systems where everyone meeting certain criteria gets automatically evaluated for promotion versus opt-in systems. [27:31] Siri explains how an Australian employer reduced the gender gap by telling rejected candidates they were in the top 20% of applicants. [30:16] Siri outlines her three-part framework: make it count, make it stick, and make it normal. [32:54] Siri identifies the biggest resistance that occurs when changes touch leaders' own everyday work directly. [34:01] Siri explains her core aspiration is to shift discussions about fairness from ideology and emotion to data and evidence. [39:44] Siri invites everyone to think of one thing in their daily work they could tweak slightly to make it more fair. [41:04] And remember…“Though force can protect in an emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace.” - Dwight D. Eisenhower   Quotable Quotes "Our behaviors are often shaped by the environments that surround us, right? The physical environments, but also the policies, the processes, the norms, the stereotypes, the culture, so to speak. And those external forces shape us to a much greater degree than we realize." "If we want to shift behaviors, it's much faster, easier, often cheaper, and most importantly, much more effective to change that surrounding environment, those systems and processes, rather than to try to change our individual brains." "There's a lot of research that shows that fairness is a universally shared human value globally. Right. People gravitate to fairness. Kids as young as 4 and 5 years old develop a really sophisticated understanding of fairness." "It's actually impossible without fairness to spot talent accurately, to truly hire the best people, and then to evaluate those people objectively so that we make sure that we're advancing and promoting the best, most competent people rather than the ones who, for example, appear most confident on the surface." "Data can be a powerful engine for change, but only if we harness it as such, only if we actively make the data speak." "People often subjectively love the trainings. They'll give it an 11 out of 10 on the score form and they'll report that, oh yes, I learned all these new things I didn't know before. I'm much more motivated now to make sure that I don't evaluate people in a biased way. But then when we follow up with them and see what they actually do in six months, in 12 months, in two years, we just don't see evidence of behavior change." "We often confuse confidence with competence. So just because someone's pounding the table, applying for everything, saying, me, me, I'm ready, give me a raise, promote me, put me on this, that doesn't mean that they're actually the most skilled or competent person for that task." "I really think if. If we make sure we create a culture where people matter, they're appreciated, and that they belong. And again, what surrounds that is fairness. Of course. And again, you know, the whole idea is, you know, you're working toward results. You know, you grow your people, you grow the company."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Siri Chilazi Website | Siri Chilazi LinkedIn | Siri Chilazi Instagram |

Nick Cooney is the founder and managing partner of Lever VC, an early stage fund focused on food and ag tech innovation. He also founded the Lever Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to advancing a humane and sustainable food system, and authored "What We Don't Do: Inaction in the Face of Suffering and the Drive to Do More." In this episode, Nick tackles the Malthusian Trap debate and explains why more people face starvation today in raw numbers than ever before, despite technological advances in food production. He argues that capitalism alone cannot solve global food insecurity because it represents a complex systems problem requiring economic development, better governance, and philanthropic intervention beyond market mechanisms.  Nick draws on evolutionary psychology to explain why people naturally care more about local issues than distant suffering, advocating for logic-based approaches to maximize impact. He emphasizes that organizational success breeds engagement more than empowerment structures, warning that flattened organizations often create accountability confusion and poor decision-making when people lack necessary expertise.  Nick stresses that leaders should focus on helping teams achieve clear, meaningful results rather than prioritizing feel-good management approaches that may undermine actual effectiveness. Listen to this episode to explore how leaders can address complex global challenges while building more effective and engaged organizations. You can find episode 478 on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | https://bit.ly/TLP-478   Key Takeaways [02:17] Nick reveals something not found online that he practices what he preaches by donating a large portion of his annual income to support efforts that reduce suffering in the world. [03:03] Nick explains the struggle with food distribution despite production advances noting that while technology has made food production more efficient there are more people living in extreme poverty and facing starvation today than hundreds of years ago due to raw population growth. [06:45] Nick outlines why investment money sometimes goes to the wrong places explaining there is a fadish nature to venture capital where certain things get in fashion plus ag-tech innovation is often slower to be adopted than other technologies and faces regulatory challenges. [10:26] Nick addresses why capitalism has not solved world hunger stating that while there has been good progress with the percentage of global population in extreme poverty trending down free markets alone are not going to be a full solution. [14:38] Nick explains what drives people to care about issues noting that humans are descended from apes optimized for survival in pre-Agrarian life giving us strong instincts to care about those close to us but having far less concern for those out of sight. [19:16] Nick clarifies his focus is not specifically on hunger but on animal suffering because he spends most of his time on animal suffering since it is an area where there is huge amounts of extreme suffering that does not have to be there. [22:05] Nick discusses managing teams in impact-focused organizations explaining he has been fortunate that his entities were working in areas with clear positive impact so people were attracted to work there because of the positive impact they knew they were having. [27:20] Nick agrees with concerns about flattening organizations stating that excessive flatness can lead to suboptimal results because people may not have the expertise to make smart decisions and it can make empowered people feel discouraged when they fail. [30:49] Nick confirms the abundance-scarcity parallel in organizational design explaining that companies flush with cash get very fat with higher burn rates while cash-tight companies are forced into much smarter decision making by economic necessity. [33:44] Nick explains the impact of inaction in corporate settings noting there is a huge bias towards focusing on what we are doing ethically rather than consequences of inaction but today the biggest harms are caused by failing to put time, money or mental energy into helping those facing extreme suffering. [39:53] Nick reflects on duty of care laws stating it is interesting that legally we treat a child 10 feet away versus 200 feet away dramatically differently even though the outcome is exactly the same if both children suffer and die. [45:28] Nick emphasizes the incredible power individuals actually have, explaining we can save hundreds of lives and spare hundreds of thousands of animals from suffering through really cost efficient charities which means we have a greater level of responsibility to use that power well. [47:21] And remember...“The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that’s the essence of inhumanity.” - George Bernard Shaw   Quotable Quotes “What did evolution optimize us for as a species? Survival." "I think it's really important to bring in logic, thoughtfulness, a quantitative analysis if we really want to do the most good that we can." "Any one of us, at least those of us living in the us, Europe, semi industrialized or industrialized countries, we have the ability to literally save the lives of hundreds, thousands of people, spare hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of others from intense suffering." "Free markets alone are not going to solve the problem. They can help it, but there's, or in some cases could hurt it as well." "Today the biggest harms that we cause to others are not caused by bad actions we take. They're caused by our inactions failing to put time, money, or as you were alluding to mental energy into helping those who are facing extreme suffering." "We actually have this really incredible amount of power. We don't think that we do." "Occasionally when everyone is empowered to do something, like no one knows who's supposed to step up and do something, and you kind of get into this situation where you can be a victim of, let's say, the bystander effect." "There is a system for many things that does keep us in check about, keep us accountable for the things we do not do. And that would be in our legal system." "Part of the job of a leader, whether you're trying to run a business or a nonprofit or save the world, is you're trying to get people to care." "I don't know that we spend enough time on the design part and step back and go, well, how do we design an environment where we get the right behaviors psychologically."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Nick Cooney Website | Nick Cooney X | Nick Cooney Facebook | Nick Cooney LinkedIn | Nick Cooney Instagram |

Sara Sabin is an executive leadership and intuition coach. In this episode, she shares her core philosophy that leadership starts with mastering your internal world. Sara describes how leaders can rewire thought patterns through simple daily exercises, explaining the neuroscience behind how small efforts compound for dramatic confidence improvements.  She tackles the biggest intuition myth that emotions equal gut feelings, explaining true intuition appears as clear, emotionless flashes while emotions masquerade as insight.   Listen to discover why leaning into discomfort and maintaining sharp thinking skills will determine whether you thrive or become obsolete in an AI-driven world. You can find episode 477 on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [03:21] Sara explains AI laziness wasn't "one lightning moment" but "a slow creep" of observing marketing and content "starting to look the same." [05:25] Sara distinguishes AI from human delegation, noting team members get the opportunity to expand in a certain area and to use their brain. [07:31] Sara clarifies AI can complement critical thinking if "used after you've done the critical thinking part" but warns replacement impairs your "ability to stand out." [15:01] Sara reveals her core insight that "leadership is an inside job" with every leadership skill having "an internal component." [17:22] Sara explains emotional regulation isn't about "transcending emotion" but "the ability to acknowledge emotions, accept them" when triggered. [20:50] Sara explains habitual thought patterns influence your belief systems which determine your actions and changing them is easier than you might think. [26:30] Sara busts the myth that "emotion is not the same as intuition," defining real intuition as "a very clear, emotionless flash." [32:36] Sara outlines her worst-case AI scenario where "everyone starts to look the same" mentally, losing creativity and becoming "open to manipulation." [39:41] Sara challenges listeners to lean into discomfort and not get lazy while maintaining a sharp brain. [41:17] And remember...“By far, the greatest danger of Artificial Intelligence is that people conclude too early that they understand it.” - Eliezer Yudkowsky   Quotable Quotes "Leadership is an inside job." "Lean into discomfort. Don't get lazy." "Emotion is not the same as intuition." "Your habitual thought patterns influence your belief systems which determine your actions and behaviors and therefore your results." "A little bit of effort every day goes a long way." "Unless you understand the internal pieces that drive the external strategy and make it work, then you won't ever get to the realm of being exceptional." "Until you are in a place of emotional neutrality, you cannot be an excellent communicator, period." "Intuition is just a very clear, emotionless flash of something." "Use your emotional triggers and your resistance to things to learn something." "Pay attention to when you get triggered, it's pointing to a layer that you need to shed." "AI can be a tool to augment and improve critical thinking, but it can't replace critical thinking."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Sara Sabin Website | Sara Sabin LinkedIn | Sara Sabin X |

Jed Brewer is the president and founder of Good Loud Media, a nonprofit organization that uses music and video to drive social impact in underserved communities around the world.   In this episode, Jed describes how Good Loud Media operates by bringing together Grammy-winning musicians, renowned psychologists, and subject matter experts to create targeted media campaigns.   Jed explores the concept of empathy in leadership and violence prevention. He explains how mass violence stems from a "death of empathy" where people demonize their enemies, and how perspective-taking through music can help restore human connection even in conflict zones. Jed shares his approach to networking as a superpower for creating change. He emphasizes that success is always a team effort and encourages leaders to view their network as the foundation of any meaningful impact. Listen to this episode to discover how music can be engineered to solve complex social problems and learn practical strategies for building powerful networks that drive systemic change. You can find episode 476 on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [02:23] Jed reveals something people can't find about him online, that he grew up playing in rock bands and learned at 14 that "music has the power to bring us together" and can "create a place where people feel welcome when they don't feel welcome in other places." [03:36] Jed explains his journey from being a preacher's kid to prison chaplain and also describes how his passion developed through the fusion between music and technology that led him to study engineering while maintaining his love for music, understanding that "technology is a way to drive that forward." [07:02] Jed explains how he got into prison outreach and outlines his startup experience. He reveals a breakthrough discovery.  [13:07] Jed explains the business case for underserved populations, noting that pharmaceutical companies are "leaving money on the table" because potential customers aren't aware of life-saving products like HIV medications that "could be using these products." [15:47] Jed connects his faith background to his mission, explaining that his personal faith centers on "love your neighbor as yourself" and finding ways to "reduce human suffering." [17:03] Jed explains how he brings high-caliber people together and he describes the Narcan project. Jed identifies the messaging challenge where some people viewed Narcan as "something that drug users would have" he also outlines his collaborative process where he works with subject matter experts. [24:27] Jed describes distribution strategy where they put the song "everywhere" - radio, social media, and in-person community outreach - celebrating most when "people amplify it to their own network." [26:54] Jed explains his international focus where he started building relationships with creatives worldwide for cost-effective production and he reveals their focus on preventing mass violence. Jed describes their Nigerian mental health success where they embedded therapeutic breathing exercises in music. [32:57] Jed explains music's unique power, noting that unlike speeches that tell people what to think, music tells them "what to think and how to feel at the same time" because "people don't have their guards up about music." [35:48] Jed defines empathy through perspective taking, explaining that empathy begins with consciously thinking "what would it be like to be this other person" and seeing enemies as human beings, even those you disagree with. [40:18] Jed emphasizes networking importance, stating "Your network is your net worth" and "I don't think anybody succeeds alone" because success is always team success, so "the question is, who's on your team?" [44:25] Jed describes his leadership transition where Good Loud Media is shifting from him "doing everything" to "setting other people up to be the people that are doing things" as they expand internationally. [47:27] Jed delivers his closing call to action, saying "You have a vision in your head of something that you can do to make the world a better place... Do it. Now is the time... The world needs you." [49:10] And remember...“Where words fail, music speaks.” - Hans Christian Andersen   Quotable Quotes "I learned as a kid that music has the power to bring us together. I learned when I was 14 that music can create a place where people feel welcome when they don't feel welcome in other places." "I have always been a firm believer that networking is just how we all get where we're going. We all do better when we've got the riches of friendship." "Dig your well before you're thirsty." For me, the living out of that faith has to do with love your neighbor as yourself…I think that all of us can agree that whenever possible, lessening the amount of suffering in the world and lessening the amount of suffering that our neighbors and that our loved ones face is the morally right thing for us to pursue." "I have discovered few things that produce as much genuine magic as simply asking... There's a famous phrase, you have not, because you ask not. I have learned to ask pretty boldly for things, and most of the time people say yes." "Your network is your net worth. The people that, you know, are. That is your riches in life." "I don't think anybody succeeds alone... I think that success is always team success." "You're telling them what to think and how to feel at the same time. Music is a guided meditation that has both a cognitive and an emotive aspect happening in parallel."In mass violence, there's a death of empathy." "The only way forward is to see our enemies as human beings. And that really is what empathy is." "I think empathy in many ways begins and ends with perspective taking." "There are different seasons in life and there are different phases, and we pass in and out of them." "You have a vision in your head of something that you can do to make the world a better place. I know you do... Do it. Now is the time. Not next week, not next year. Do it. Get started. It won't get easier. The best time to do it is right now.We need you. Get to work. This is your moment, the sign you've been waiting for. This is that sign. Get started with your thing that's going to make the world a better place."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Jed Brewer Website | Good Loud Media Facebook | Jed Brewer LinkedIn | Good Loud Media Instagram |

Nicola Ilic is a social entrepreneur, activist, and adjunct professor of leadership at Georgetown University. He's the founder of Changelab and applies lessons from grassroots movements to transform how leaders build agency in others. In this episode, Nikola defines democratic leadership as enabling people to exercise leadership regardless of title when facing uncertainty rather than voting or consensus-building. The key difference is that instead of becoming the authority figure people depend on, democratic leaders create agency in their teams to handle challenges independently. He says that most leadership development initiatives fail to transform because they focus on comprehension rather than experiential learning. Nicola discusses the challenge facing emerging leaders who grew up in protected environments and can't handle uncertainty, explaining how leaders must create developmental challenges for their teams.  Listen to discover how to enable others to reach their leadership potential. You can find episode 475 on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [02:34] Nikola reveals he played basketball seriously in Serbia as a point guard, which taught him "individual excellence, work ethics and team play." [04:20] Nikola explains democratic leadership centers around "how do you relate to uncertainty" based on observing his young daughters. He notes that "authoritarians are always also fear mongers" because creating fear makes people search for a parental authority figure. [08:40] Nikola says to make our companies, our teams, our organizations better is to focus on the core, which is enabling people to "exercise leadership in the face of uncertainty, no matter what is their title". [11:53] He emphasizes that transformation requires "tacit learning" through immersed experience, like presenting to 40 CEOs despite being scared. [18:34] He shares his two most powerful questions: "what do you think?" and "tell me more" which he uses with kids, students, and everyone to develop their thinking. [20:50] Nikola explains how leaders course-correct reactive behavior is that leaders must enable all the talents because you need all the brains you can get. [26:07] He clarifies that "voting is not democracy - it's the ability to surface various ideas, let them compete and then come up with the best one" creating a "free market of ideas" and co-creation process. [31:15] Nikola teaches that effective democratic leaders must "differentiate initiative and extroversion from leadership" and act like "a conductor in the orchestra" who knows each team member's personality and draws out contributions from introverted members. [34:31] He notices three things in young leaders: people from "well protected childhoods" have "underdeveloped their ability to handle uncertainty," everyone is "looking for purpose," and many feel "there's something deeper that we need to change." [37:28] Nikola confirms students must test themselves and asks them "what is the highest good you can imagine?" because "when you aim for something that's huge" and believe in it, "challenges will feel very differently." [40:56] He shares growing up in Serbia during the 1990s war, joining a movement against dictatorship as a teenager, and discovering "we as kids can organize and use nonviolence to overthrow the worst dictator in Europe." [44:31] Nikola invites listeners to become "activists in unlikely places" by building allies through one-on-one conversations before making interventions. [48:15] And remember…“Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change.” - Confucius   Quotable Quotes "It just makes you person with a title and authority. Yeah, it's. I like to use this metaphor of, you know, if you see a person with a knife, what do you say oh, here's a chef. Or do you say oh, here's a murderer? Well, it depends what they do with the knife. It's the same with power, authority and title." "The core of Democratic leadership is how do you relate to uncertainty? How do you enable people to exercise leadership in the face of uncertainty, no matter what is their title." "Once acquire self reliance, kill is now there. And it's part of her identity, it's part of pride." "What do you think? And tell me more. These are two most powerful questions." "If you talk to anyone who built a successful business, they always tell you it's about playing a long game because who cares about short term if it's going to be wiped out long term?" "It's not voting. Voting is not democracy. Voting is just A part of democracy, right? It's the ability to surface various ideas, let them compete and then come up with the best one." "As Nietzsche said, he or she who knows why to live can bear. Anyhow, if you're doing something that you believe in, challenges will feel very differently." "If you want to change something in your organization, you can, but you have to think about it as a little activist project." "We got to connect the comprehension to the actual transformation." "At the end of the day, country, company, whatever it is, the vote happens with dollars. Okay, where do consumers spend their money? Consumers spend their money. That's how the best ideas percolate to the top and win." "We control two things. Where we spend our time and how we respond to our environment." "Your circle of influence is bigger than you think, potentially. "There's three things you can do. You can suck it up, you can try to change it, or you can move on."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | ChangeLab | Nicola Ilic LinkedIn | Nicola Ilic's Newsletter: "Pulse of Change" |

Anne Marie Anderson is a three-time Emmy winner with 36 years in sports television, including a decade as a producer at ESPN working with elite athletes and executives. She's the author of "Cultivating Audacity: Dismantle Doubt and Let Yourself Win" and has navigated multiple career pivots throughout her professional life.  In this episode, Anne Marie reveals that audacity isn't reserved for the naturally fearless but can be developed as a learnable skill. Anne Marie explains that true audacity requires getting comfortable with failure, surviving it, and trying again. She identifies four barriers that stop leaders: fear, time, money, and that inner critic. Elite performers don't silence their inner critic but examine its messages with neutral curiosity. Anne Marie teaches her catastrophize your life technique for evaluating risks by imagining the worst possible outcomes. This helps distinguish between legitimate concerns and irrational fears that paralyze decision-making. She emphasizes that the cost of inaction is always higher than the price of failure. Anne Marie introduces the concept of your front row, the people who challenge you and tell you the truth. She advocates for shape shifting leadership and shares how vulnerability became key to her transformation. If you're ready to stop letting fear control your biggest decisions, this episode is essential listening. You can find episode 474 wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [02:42] Anne Marie reveals what's not publicly known about her: she did adventure travel before kids, rafting dangerous rivers, climbing to Everest base camp, and trekking gorillas in the Congo. [03:39] She explains that audacity requires practice with failing and getting comfortable with failure because "if you're not failing, you're really not pushing yourself to be audacious." [04:32] Anne Marie advises understanding why you want to make a change first, then evaluating what you're willing to risk to get there. [06:18] She identifies that elite athletes control their inner critic by recognizing it and examining messages with neutral curiosity rather than trying to silence it. Anne Marie defines audacity as "optimism that you're going to survive no matter how they work out." [08:26] Anne Marie intentionally shares her failures with her children, showing them rejections she gets to normalize failure as information. [11:36] She shares what to do differently to confront the fear and recommends catastrophizing situations to their ridiculous extreme. [17:06] She explains that your "front row" should be people who challenge and push you, not necessarily your best friends who want to keep you safe. [22:48] Anne Marie describes leaders as "shape shifters" who tailor their approach to each person's individual motivation and needs. [26:00] She distinguishes that urgent tasks are usually responses to others' requests while important tasks move you closer to your values and goals. [28:17] Anne Marie shares how her relationship with vulnerability has changed through the series of transformations she had in her lifetime and career.  [31:03] She describes actively seeking rejection to desensitize herself, advising people to "fail first, go fail a lot." [32:54] Anne Marie's closing advice is for leaders to share their vulnerabilities and be "shape shifting leaders" who find the best in everyone. [34:16] And remember...“Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.” - Dale Carnegie   Quotable Quotes "It requires practice, and it requires practice with failing and getting comfortable failing." "If you're not failing, you're really not pushing yourself to be audacious." "Audacity at the base, right, is about optimism. And it's not optimism that things are going to work out the way you want it to. It's optimism that you're going to survive no matter how they work out." "If the price is too high to do the work, to create the change, then wait till you get the bill for regret, because that is super steep." "I would far rather have a list of failures than have a list of regrets." "You're going to get information as to how to take your next step. If you don't take that first step, how do you know where to go?" "Elite performers on that last one, inner critic, have great control of their inner critic power. They don't silence it. You can't silence your inner critic, but you can recognize it for what it is." "Your front row needs to be those people who will challenge you, who will push you, who will tell you the truth." "A great leader is somebody who's going to be able to say, obviously, I have all of these incredibly urgent matters. I'm carving out specific times to work toward our goals, our future." "Things that are urgent are usually in response to a request... Things that are important move us closer to our values, vision, goals, who we want to be." "I tell people, fail first, go fail a lot. Whatever the thing is you're most afraid of, do that one first. When you start actively seeking it out, it becomes easier." "To really understand human behavior, I think you have to understand what people fear."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Anne Marie Anderson Website | Anne Marie Anderson LinkedIn | Anne Marie Anderson Instagram | Sign up for Anne Marie Anderson book updates:

Barry Jesinoski is the National Adjutant and CEO of Disabled American Veterans (DAV), leading an organization with over one million members. In this episode, Barry shares his unconventional journey from a young Marine who needed help to leading one of America's most respected veteran service organizations, despite never completing a college degree.  He explains why he limits remote work, and reveals the two fundamental principles that every DAV employee learns from day one. He discusses how integrity and communication became the foundation for building organizational culture.. Barry shares what it truly means to be a "disabled veteran", and explains that many veterans with service-connected disabilities don't consider themselves disabled at all.  Barry also reveals how DAV maintains effectiveness in Washington across changing administrations. The organization stays completely apolitical and focuses solely on what benefits veterans, their families, and survivors. This strategy has helped DAV influence virtually every major piece of veteran-friendly legislation while spending only 1% of their budget on lobbying efforts. This episode offers practical wisdom for leaders wondering how to build authentic organizational culture and lead effectively without traditional credentials.  You can find episode 473 wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Barry Jesinoski on   Key Takeaways [02:19] Barry reveals that people would have to dig to discover he doesn't have a college degree, explaining "I believe most people assume that I have a degree, maybe multiple degrees, maybe an advanced degree. I do not have a college degree." [04:01] Barry outlines his journey from Marine Corps service and medical discharge to being hired by DAV despite lacking a college degree, then explains DAV's move from Cincinnati to their current Erlanger, Kentucky headquarters. [07:22] Barry describes their new headquarters' employee benefits and explains his belief that "collaboration and ingenuity production suffers when a workforce is remote, say even beyond 20% of the time." [11:44] Barry establishes his core leadership values of integrity and communication, explaining how these helped him succeed when promoted at age 23 over two colleagues with 20+ years experience. [18:29] Barry clarifies that many veterans with service-connected disabilities don't consider themselves disabled, noting the spectrum ranges from simple scars to full-time care needs, including invisible symptoms like PTSD. [23:54] Barry outlines DAV's broader mission including Washington lobbying, vehicle donation programs, employment matching, volunteer networks, and the Patriot Boot Camp entrepreneurial program with mentoring sessions. [31:06] Barry addresses DAV's political stance, emphasizing "We are completely apolitical. We have to be" and explaining they support anything "good for veterans, their family members and their survivors." [34:26] Barry directs people to learn more about DAV through their website at dav.org and mentions they have "about 1.4 million followers on social media." [35:57] And remember...“The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity. Without it, no real success is possible, no matter whether it is on a section gang, a football field, in an army, or in an office.” - Dwight D. Eisenhower   Quotable Quotes "When I talk about integrity, I'm really talking about people who do what they say they will, people who always project a good image of our organization, people who listen before being heard, people who put in an honest day's work and take pride in their work, and people who respect others."  "The communication part, that's really about communicating honestly, actively and proactively, really asking questions when you have them, especially when you're new."  "I believe that distance or absence makes the heart grow colder, not fonder."  "I'm a firm believer that collaboration and ingenuity production suffers when a workforce is remote, say even beyond 20% of the time."  "Many of us who are technically qualified or considered to be by the VA disabled veterans... we don't consider ourselves disabled at all. I'm not. I didn't consider myself disabled when I was medically discharged from the Marines and I haven't considered myself as such a day since."  "If it's good for veterans, their family members and their survivors, we're on it. If it's bad for that same group of people, we're on it. And we will call out lawmakers who are not doing right, we believe by our veterans any and every day of the week."  "I found that operating with integrity and through strong communication served me well in my career."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Disabled American Veterans (DAV) Website | Disabled American Veterans (DAV)  Facebook | Disabled American Veterans (DAV)  X | Disabled American Veterans (DAV)  LinkedIn |

Dr. Margaret Heffernan has written six books including "Willful Blindness: Why We Ignore the Obvious at Our Peril" and "Uncharted: How to Navigate the Future," both widely recognized as top business books. Dr. Heffernan returns to the Leadership Podcast with insights from her new book "Embracing Uncertainty: How writers, musicians and artists thrive in an unpredictable world." She challenges conventional wisdom on how we think about decision-making in uncertain times. She reveals why leaders need to step away from predictive algorithms and reclaim their human capacity for intuition.  She discusses the difference between healthy uncertainty and harmful vagueness, sharing practical techniques for leaders who want to make better decisions without drowning in endless analysis. She reveals why agenda-free meetings often produce better results than structured ones, and how silence can be more powerful than speaking. Through personal examples, Dr. Heffernan demonstrates how apparent failures can become unexpected successes when we learn to sit with uncertainty rather than rush to conclusions.  This episode provides actionable insights for leaders who want to navigate uncertainty with confidence, make decisions with incomplete information, and create space for the unexpected insights that drive breakthrough thinking. You can find episode 472 wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [03:32] Dr. Heffernan reveals what's not in her public bio: she's been trying to grow vegetables for about 10 years and is still absolutely terrible at it, and she's currently learning Italian, which is a deeply humbling experience. [04:53] Dr. Heffernan explains that leaders can reclaim intuition for better decision-making by absorbing quality information through everyday observations—like walking city streets or eavesdropping on conversations—to "restock their mental kitchen" with rich ingredients that will inform future choices when needed. [10:11] Dr. Heffernan confirms that when you slow down, thoughts bubble to the surface - some mundane like "oh God, I forgot to feed the cat," others valuable like identifying the right person for a job that your brain was processing subconsciously. [11:59] Dr. Heffernan distinguishes between necessary ambiguity and harmful vagueness by explaining that decisions are always ambiguous because they're "hypotheses about the future," but harmful vagueness occurs when leaders don't ask clear questions or establish what decision needs to be made.  [17:09] Dr. Heffernan describes transforming a board she chairs from having overly strict agendas to focusing on "what are the three most important things we need to be talking about right now," explaining she has more often seen time wasted from detailed agendas than loose ones. [20:33] Dr. Heffernan explains that "action is how you search" - you can talk, think, and research forever, but the only way to know if something will work is to start, emphasizing that what really matters is beginning, not necessarily where you start. [23:06] Dr. Heffernan suggests that risk tolerance may actually be lower than ever before, but people's level of anxiety drives them to reduce risk, working with wealthy companies whose "risk aversion is almost tangible" despite having enormous resources. [24:36] Dr. Heffernan acknowledges that artists and musicians must be vulnerable to put themselves out there, but explains that most people she's worked with have high risk tolerance because "if you're going to do something meaningful and worthwhile, probably going to be something you haven't done before." [26:35] Dr. Heffernan shares that her book "Willful Blindness" initially seemed like a failure with only a couple of reviews after six months, but took off after making the Financial Times Business Book Award longlist and continues to have readers over a decade later. [28:53] Dr. Heffernan explains her motivation for writing "Embracing Uncertainty" stems from her belief that "the marginalization of the humanities and the arts, the defunding of the arts" is doing "immense harm" and represents "a gigantic loss, not just to the arts, but to all aspects of life." [32:01] Dr. Heffernan outlines her ideal leadership retreat opening: "sending people out for a walk and coming back to report what they saw," explaining this practice "wandering around stuff" and would reveal amazingly different observations from different people. [33:43] Dr. Heffernan suggests the better instruction for the walking exercise would be "noticed" rather than "saw" because "you could notice in all sorts of different ways," allowing people to focus on hearing, feeling, or thinking differently. [40:57] Dr. Heffernan explains she's become "much less concerned about planning now," leaving more margins for things to go wrong and scheduling less frantically to create "space and time for things to happen." [42:39] Dr. Heffernan describes a transformative experiment where she appointed herself "the listener" in meetings, discovering that when you're not looking for moments to speak, "you actually are listening to the person who's speaking instead of rehearsing in your mind what you're going to say next." [45:48] Dr. Heffernan concludes that leaders should remember "what's uncertain is a whole range of things that are possible" and warns against "demanding too much certainty too fast" because "what's certain is what's known and something you've done before," while innovation requires exploring uncertainty rather than shutting it down. [46:57] And remember...“Uncertainty is a very good thing: it's the beginning of an investigation, and the investigation should never end.” - Tim Crouch Quotable Quotes "Intuition is a very accelerated retrieval of a lot of stuff that's been roaming around in your head. The issue is, how do you make sure that the stuff roaming around in your head is quality stuff." "Action is how you search. You can talk about stuff forever. You can think about stuff forever. You can research stuff forever. But the acid test is, do you start?" "What's uncertain is a whole range of things that are possible. Be careful of demanding too much certainty too fast in too many domains because what's certain is what's known and something you've done before." "If you're desperate to speak, you don't listen. I realized that's what I'd been doing a lot of my life - looking for the moment where I could land my brilliant contribution." "The only way I can know if I can write a book is to write a book. I can think about it forever, but actually, I will never know unless I do it."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dr. Margaret Heffernan Website | Dr. Margaret Heffernan X | Dr. Margaret Heffernan Instagram | Dr. Margaret Heffernan Facebook |

Kurt Gray is a professor of psychology and neuroscience, and the author of "Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground." In this episode,. Kurt explains why our workplaces have become battlegrounds of moral outrage. Kurt's groundbreaking premise challenges the fundamental assumptions leaders make about motivation and conflict. While we've been taught that humans are driven by conquest and dominance, Kurt's research reveals we're actually hardwired as prey animals, constantly scanning for threats and seeking protection through tribal bonds. This isn't just academic theory—it's the key to understanding why your team members react with such intensity to seemingly minor workplace conflicts, why facts fail to resolve disputes, and why traditional leadership approaches often backfire in our current climate of perpetual outrage. Kurt reveals why social media has weaponized our ancient prey instincts, creating what Kurt calls "moral panics" that spread faster than ever before. Kurt introduces the revolutionary concept of "stories of harm"—the narratives that drive all moral conflict. Kurt also discusses the "vulnerability paradox"—how the strongest leaders actually become more effective by showing vulnerability first.  Kurt outlines his practical framework for CIVil discourse: Connect, Invite, and Validate. This isn't corporate speak or sensitivity training. It's a research-backed approach that acknowledges our prey psychology while channeling it toward productive outcomes. Leaders learn how to connect with people as human beings before diving into disagreements, how to genuinely invite different perspectives without triggering defensive responses, and how to validate concerns without necessarily agreeing with conclusions. This episode is a timely reminder that outrage doesn’t have to define us and that leadership starts with understanding how others perceive harm. You can find episode 471 wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [02:28] Kurt reveals he starts out in geophysics before transitioning to psychology, looking for natural gas in the Canadian wilderness before studying people's minds. [03:35] Kurt explains that while we think of humans as apex predators based on museum dioramas of cave people with spears, we're actually fairly weak and were more likely hiding from predators in the past, worried about getting eaten. [06:49] Kurt explains that people work together in groups for protection - one human naked in the wilderness won't survive long, so we need teams to help us survive and protect each other from threats. [08:17] Kurt explains that emotions and gut feelings drive our decisions more than facts, and when people have strong moral convictions, they dismiss facts from the other side as "not the right facts" or "not real facts." [11:24] Kurt suggests framing challenges as positive ways to rise to the occasion rather than focusing on fear, emphasizing resilience and future-facing thinking about how teams can be stronger. [13:21] Kurt emphasizes seeing people as three-dimensional rather than flattening them to just the opinion you disagree with, and highlighting common values and missions that organizations share. [14:54] Kurt acknowledges the trend of self-segregation but suggests focusing on deeper unifying concerns about protecting ourselves, families, companies, and nations from harm. [17:57] Kurt explains multiple factors including cable news, social media's ability to incite moral panics through limitless threats paired with virality metrics, and the resulting purity tests when people feel threatened. Kurt explains that debates often center on "who's the real victim" - in immigration, the right sees American citizens as victims while the left sees undocumented immigrants as victims fleeing violence. [23:16] Kurt explains that in group conflicts, minds think of moral competitions as binary (perpetrator or victim), and people stick to victimhood claims because it's better to be the victim than the perpetrator. [27:51] Kurt explains that vulnerability creates connection - when forced to be vulnerable with others (like being stuck in wilderness conditions), people bond incredibly because they're all in trouble together. [30:38] Kurt references Nick Epley's studies where people on Chicago trains think deep conversations would be awkward but actually love them, bonding much faster through meaningful questions rather than small talk. [32:54] Kurt confirms this, explaining our minds are hardwired to find threats, so when obvious threats like starvation don't exist, we expand minor threats into big ones - calling this "creep of harm." [36:28] Kurt confirms that our minds evolve to protect us from harm by paying attention to places where we feel victimized in the past, like always remembering an intersection where you get mugged. [39:01] Kurt outlines Connect (ask questions to connect as human beings before discussing politics), Invite (genuinely invite them to share beliefs with motivation to understand), and Validate (appreciate their vulnerability in sharing without immediately arguing back). [43:28] Kurt emphasizes asking "what harms do they see?" when confronted with someone who disagrees, as this takes you out of your own mind into theirs and allows you to meet them where they're at. [45:38] And remember...“Morality is not the doctrine of how we may make ourselves happy, but how we may make ourselves worthy of happiness.” - Immanuel Kant Quotable Quotes "We are more hunted than hunter." "Conflict flattens people and it flattens people to just the opinion that they have that you disagree with." "People say, you know what I want. I want the facts... And then people say, not those facts. Those are not the right facts. Those are not real facts. Facts are very flimsy, especially in cases where we have strong moral convictions." "Social media is so good at inciting moral panics because it has two features. One of them is a limitless supply of threats... And two, it pairs these threats with virality metrics." "The way to be comfortable being vulnerable with others is, in fact, by trying to get other people to be comfortable being vulnerable with you." "The safer we are, the more we take minor threats and we expand them in our minds to be big threats." "We should, as leaders take a Hippocratic oath to do no harm." "The reason we work is not just to make money and take care of our families. We work, you know, in the service of other human beings to make other people's lives better." "A lot of the behavior we see in the work world is based on fear."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Kurt Gray Website | Kurt Gray X | Kurt Gray LinkedIn | Kurt Gray Instagram |

Ken Rusk is owner of Rusk Industries and bestselling author of "Blue-Collar Cash: Love Your Work, Secure Your Future, and Find Happiness for Life". Ken is also a motivational speaker who achieved WSJ Bestseller status with Blue-Collar Cash during the pandemic.  In this episode, Ken reveals why 77 million Americans still work with their hands, yet blue-collar careers remain stigmatized. He shares his revolutionary approach to employee engagement through what he calls "hiring the whole person" - not just the eight hours they work, but understanding their dreams, goals, and what they're chasing in life.  Ken also discusses the critical difference between reactive and proactive work environments, why blue-collar workers often have more control over their outcomes than white-collar employees, and how leaders can create what he calls "momentum mechanisms" that align personal and corporate goals. He shares memorable stories from his entrepreneurial journey, including the moment he realized two employees were making him money while he worked elsewhere, and the life-changing experience of working for someone who "thought big" in every aspect of life. Ken's pragmatic approach to leadership development, employee engagement, and business growth offers actionable insights for leaders in any industry who want to create environments where people can design the lives they want while contributing to organizational success. You can find episode 470 on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |   Key Takeaways [03:11] Jan raises the question of how leaders can reshape the way society sees dignity and value in all kinds of work. Ken points out that nearly half of the 167 million fully employed Americans still work with their hands, a reminder that blue collar work remains essential. [04:59] Ken highlights that blue collar workers often have more control over what they produce, which gives them a direct connection to their work. He describes the “stand back moment” — a sense of pride in creating something tangible, a feeling that’s often missing in office jobs. [07:35] Reflecting on 38 years in business, Ken shares how his company grew from 6 to over 200 people. He talks about building a culture that made "ditch digging cool" before workplace culture was even a buzzword — hiring not just for the hours on the job but for the full person behind the role. [11:33] Ken talks about assigning someone the role of “Chief Culture Officer” or “Chief Cool Officer” to keep the company environment engaging. They swapped the word "goals" for "time pathways" and made personal milestones visible, so people feel invested in their work and each other. [14:08] Ken notes how side gigs have become more common. With tools like social media and mobile banking, many are turning hobbies — like making epoxy river tables into thriving weekend businesses selling for thousands. [16:00 Ken says his definition of success has shifted. What matters most now is time having the freedom to step back, see the big picture, and choose how to engage with his businesses. [17:15] One hard-earned lesson for Ken: drop the ego. He realized building a company isn’t about being the hero, it’s about finding people with entrepreneurial spirit and letting them lead because sometimes they’ll take it even further than he could alone. [19:15] Ken shares how he communicates financial responsibility by focusing on ROI instead of just dollars. He encourages department heads to think like owners by sharing profits from new revenue or cost savings creating buy-in from top to bottom. [23:49] When teaching ROI, Ken keeps it simple. He gives team leads a whiteboard and makes them subtract expenses manually — like balancing a checkbook — so they understand how their actions impact profits they can share in. [25:52] Ken encourages young people to ask "why" before choosing college or a trade. He suggests drawing a picture of their ideal life — the home, lifestyle, hobbies — then working backwards from that to choose a path. The key isn’t what you do, but what you do with it. [30:23] Ken shares two defining moments: one, realizing he could earn income even when not physically present on a job site; and two, working for someone who lived and thought on a massive scale. Both experiences showed him the power of big thinking and building something bigger than himself. [36:56] To close, Ken encourages people to block out the noise of expectations. Everyone knows what they truly want deep down. The key is to put that vision in front of you, let it guide you, and go live the life you actually want. [39:03] And remember...“The ultimate value of life depends upon awareness and the power of contemplation rather than upon mere survival.” — Aristotle   Quotable Quotes "Almost half the people in the United States are in some form of working with their hands to create, fix, repair, build something." "When you hire somebody, it used to be that you hired the eight hours that they were alive and working. Well, you better now know what that something else is." "When you have corporate goals that are on the same track and same speed as personal goals of the people within it, that's where this amazing synergy happens." "Time is probably your most valuable asset that you're ever going to own." "Did I open this company for it to run me or for me to run it?" "You're going to find out that their seedlings might even be higher than yours. You might be your own self limiter." "I don't necessarily think it's as important what you do for a living as it is what you do with what you do for a living." "You really need to stop listening to all the noise of societal expectations and even what other people think you should do."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Ken Rusk Website | Comfort Peace and Freedom Foundation | Ken Rusk X | Ken Rusk Facebook | Ken Rusk LinkedIn | Ken Rusk Instagram |