TLP466: Story Is The Vehicle, Not The Cargo with Dan Manning

Dan Manning is the Chief Story Architect at Build The Story, and a former fighter pilot and U.S. diplomat. Dan digs into the difference between storytelling that entertains and storytelling that leads to decisions.  Dan breaks down how he helps people choose the right story for the right moment and how every story should reflect a transformation: from fear to confidence, from confusion to clarity. He also talks about the power of visuals in storytelling, advocating for using them as prompts rather than distractions. Dan shares a story about giving tough feedback to ChatGPT and what it revealed about truth and trust in the digital world.   If you’re in a position of influence whether that’s in a boardroom or on a Zoom call, this conversation will get you thinking differently about how you communicate. You can find episode 466 wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube |     Key Takeaways [04:11] Dan shared how his varied experiences led him to storytelling.His background as a combat pilot and diplomat gave him lots of real-life stories. Each role taught him how to speak and connect in different ways. He says great stories come from living a full life. Teaching storytelling helped him improve his own skills. [05:57] Dan explained how he chooses the right story for the moment. He starts by asking what change he wants to spark. He chooses stories that move people from one mindset to another. It’s not about entertaining; it’s about making an impact. [09:26] Dan compares storytelling to how fighter pilots share lessons after missions. These “never again” stories are about mistakes and survival. In business, they help others learn without repeating those same mistakes. [11:11] Dan elaborated on how to make ‘never again’ stories work in business.Dan says a good story keeps people curious about what happened next. That curiosity helps the lesson stick. [13:37] Jim asked Dan about making his storytelling economical and precise. Dan always starts with the key message. He removes extra details so the main point stays clear. This helps people understand and remember what really matters. [19:59] Dan discussed the role of visuals in storytelling and whether we should ditch PowerPoint. Dan’s not a fan of slides, but he sees their value. He says visuals should support the message, not steal the spotlight. Use them to help people remember—not to do the talking for you. [25:22] Jim asked Dan about achieving conscious competence in storytelling. Dan learned to tell clear stories in high-stress situations. His military background taught him how to share complex ideas simply. Now, his goal is to help people act on what they hear. [29:38] Jan asked Dan about the paradox of emotional storytelling requiring emotional detachment. Dan says emotional stories must still stay focused. Even when a story is deep and personal, it should serve a purpose. If something doesn’t support the message, cut it out. [32:56] Dan explained his interaction with ChatGPT about “tough feedback.” He once asked ChatGPT for help and got a made-up excuse instead. It reminded him that AI can’t feel or judge—it just talks smoothly. He says let AI handle the easy stuff, and save the hard, creative thinking for people. [37:48] Dan believes good stories don’t just teach—they make people think. The real power is in getting listeners to reflect and ask their own questions. That’s what makes the story last. [39:33] And remember...“Humans think in stories, and we try to make sense of the world by telling stories.” - Yuval Noah Harari Quotable Quotes “You will never live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself. You have to learn from the mistakes of others.”   “Story is the vehicle, not the cargo. The cargo is the important thing.”   “I'm not trying to push my story onto other people. I want to find what is already in their mind that they're already interested in that makes them want to pull it from me. “   “Every story is a story of transformation.”   “storytelling is the easiest way for humans to process information and use it to make a decision… And if I can be effective at conveying a story, I can shape the way that a person receives the information that I'm giving them. I can help them, I can drive their imagination to imagine what it would be like if you did the thing that I suggested that you should be doing. “   “I'm not telling stories for the sake of entertainment. I'm not telling stories so that people will laugh and nod and say, man, that guy's a great storyteller. I am telling stories because I want people to do something. I want them to make a decision too.”   “If someone doesn't believe that the story you're about to tell is going to somehow benefit them, you're. They're not going to listen to you. “   “The more that we begin thinking about how we make decisions with tools like AI, the better off we are, because it's easy for us to just offload what we consider to be the hard work to AI, but we really need to be offloading the easy work to AI so that we have more time to do the hard work ourselves.” These are the books mentioned in this episode. Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dan Manning Website | Dan Manning LinkedIn | Dan Manning X |