

When The Wolves Came
Meanings of Democracy Lab
Over the last decade, large swaths of evangelicals in the U.S. have embraced an extremist politics that threatens to turn our democracy into a theocracy. Through the eyes of one pastor in Phoenix, WHEN THE WOLVES CAME shows how some evangelicals are banding together to fight back – and how their efforts can fit into a bigger movement to defend democracy in the U.S.Hosted by Dr. Ruth Braunstein, When The Wolves Came: Evangelicals Resisting Extremism is a six-part audio documentary launching March 4 that follows this story. About Dr. Braunstein: Ruth Braunstein is an award-winning sociologist who studies religion, politics, and money. She is Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, where she leads the Meanings of Democracy Lab, which researches the growing resistance to Christian Nationalism. As part of this work, she created and hosts the audio documentary When the Wolves Came: Evangelicals Resisting Extremism. Her forthcoming book, My Tax Dollars: The Morality of Taxpaying in America, explores how taxpaying has become a moral battleground in public life.WhenTheWolvesCame.org
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 5, 2025 • 36min
7: WTWC x The Right Kind of Family: The “Natural Family” Movement
We're excited to share this episode of The Right Kind of Family, featuring on-the-ground reporting from Hungary, Italy, and Spain.The show explores the rise of globally networked conservative and far-right organizations orchestrating a crackdown on sexual and reproductive health rights across Europe — all in the name of the so-called “natural family.”In episode 1 of The Right Kind of Family, reporters Claudia Torrisi, Elsa Cabria, Francesca Berardi and Lili Rutai are in Madrid, in the Spanish Senate. They follow the works of the "VI Transatlantic Summit for Freedom and the Culture of Life", a closed session “in defence of life and the natural family.” The meeting serves also as the sixth international gathering of the Political Network for Values, a network established in 2014 in a room at the UN headquarters, in New York. The reporters follow the debates and key note speeches of the participants, uncovering the international reach of this network as well as its rhetoric and political ambitions. Far from being a EU-focused network, the Political Network for Values has strong US- and Latin Amrican-connections. However, one specific European country appears to play a leading role. The Right Kind of Family is a podcast co-produced by El País Audio, Chora Media, Europod, and 444.It was created within the framework of the WePod project, co-funded by the Creative Europe programme of the European Commission.This podcast is co-produced by Europod.Subscribe to Europod • English for even more podcasts, and follow us on Linkedin and Instagram.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

12 snips
Apr 8, 2025 • 40min
6: David and Goliath
Caleb E. Campbell, a pastor and author, dives into the rising influence of white Christian nationalism under the Trump administration. He discusses how evangelical resistors are uniting with pro-democracy allies, challenging extremism within their faith communities. The conversation highlights the value of pluralism in fostering inclusivity and compassion in churches. They also explore the necessity of diverse leadership in building sustainable pro-democracy movements that engage varied ideological beliefs to combat extremism and support marginalized groups.

Apr 1, 2025 • 42min
5: Down the Rabbit Hole
Dr. Cynthia Miller-Idriss, a professor and expert in extremism, joins the discussion alongside Caleb E. Campbell, a pastor advocating for dialogue in polarized times. They delve into the rise of white Christian nationalism and its association with domestic extremism, urging for early intervention strategies. The conversation highlights the harmful impact of misinformation and addresses parental anxieties over cultural changes. Inspiringly, they share personal stories of transformation, emphasizing the power of empathy and community support in combating radicalization.

13 snips
Mar 25, 2025 • 46min
4: Fight or Flight
Caleb E. Campbell, Pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church and author of 'Disarming Leviathan,' shares insights on confronting extremism in the church. He discusses whether to sever ties or engage with those holding controversial views. The conversation delves into the challenges of navigating broken relationships post-pandemic and the intersection of faith and politics, particularly after the January 6 insurrection. With a focus on empathy and dialogue, Campbell offers strategies for engaging with American Christian nationalists and promoting understanding within evangelical communities.

Mar 18, 2025 • 44min
3: The Great Re-Sorting
COVID-19 church closures, a summer of Black Lives Matter protests, and a tense Presidential election all fan the flames of white Christian nationalism. Two churches in Phoenix react in wildly different ways, with dramatic results. Content warning: this episode includes a depiction of police violence that might be disturbing to some listeners.Show Notes:Learn more: Religious Change in America | PRRIEpisode Guests:Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.Linda Morris was called to the ministry in 1986 and has served at the First Pentecostal Church, the Mountain States Council and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World including being a founding member of the PAW Single People’s Alliance and a former member of the Convention Evangelism Outreach Services (C.E.O.S.). She recently led the Surge Network Women In Leadership and serves as Outreach Director at First Pentecostal Church where she also teaches biblical worldview, wholistic ministry, and evangelism and outreach for the church’s discipleship classes and other groupsKatherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.meRobert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future. Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ. Nathan joined the Desert Springs Bible Church board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there.For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.orgSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

11 snips
Mar 11, 2025 • 45min
2: Rise of the MAGAchurch
In this insightful discussion, scholar Robbie Jones, who leads the Public Religion Research Institute, uncovers the troubling ties between white evangelical churches and political nationalism. He highlights how Trump’s presidency intensified rifts within faith communities, revealing a surprising embrace of conservative ideologies and conspiracy theories like QAnon. The conversation delves into personal narratives, illustrating the complex interplay of faith and politics, while shedding light on how these divisions challenge core humanitarian values in evangelical spaces.

Mar 4, 2025 • 43min
1: A Tale of Two Churches
Pastor Caleb Campbell leads an evangelical church in Phoenix. After Trump’s first election, Caleb became alarmed at rising religious extremism in evangelical spaces. And he should know: before he returned to the church, Pastor Caleb was a neo-Nazi skinhead.Show Notes:Learn more about American’s attitudes about Christian nationalism: Support for Christian Nationalism in All 50 States: Findings from PRRI’s 2024 American Values AtlasEpisode Guests:Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. More at https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future. Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.meFor more go to WhenTheWolvesCame.orgSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Feb 18, 2025 • 2min
Coming Soon - When The Wolves Came
Christian nationalism has divided white evangelical churches; one Phoenix pastor and some unlikely allies are at the forefront of a growing resistance. Extremist politics have upended the evangelical world. Over the course of 6 episodes, Sociologist Ruth Braunstein examines the efforts of the insiders who are resisting white Christian nationalism.When The Wolves Came launches March 4.About Dr. Braunstein:Ruth Braunstein is an award-winning sociologist who studies religion, politics, and money. She is Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, where she leads the Meanings of Democracy Lab, which researches the growing resistance to Christian Nationalism. As part of this work, she created and hosts the audio documentary When the Wolves Came: Evangelicals Resisting Extremism. Her forthcoming book, My Tax Dollars: The Morality of Taxpaying in America, explores how taxpaying has become a moral battleground in public life.WhenTheWolvesCame.orgSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.