3: The Great Re-Sorting

9 snips

Mar 18, 2025

Caleb E. Campbell, a pastor who transformed his life from white supremacist subculture to anti-racist ministry, shares his journey alongside Nathan Whitchurch, a church board member. They discuss how the pandemic and political turmoil impacted church dynamics, leading to a heartbreaking churn in congregations. Caleb reveals the backlash he faced for his race-focused sermons after George Floyd's death, while Nathan highlights the struggles of maintaining church leadership in a divided time. Their contrasting experiences shed light on the future of faith communities.

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ANECDOTE

Church Closes Early To Protect Vulnerable

Desert Springs Bible Church chose to stop gathering in person early in the pandemic to protect the vulnerable.
Some congregants reacted by demanding access and accusing leadership of betrayal.

ANECDOTE

Sermon On Race Sparks Congregational Backlash

After George Floyd's murder, Caleb preached about race and scripture and faced fierce backlash from part of his congregation.
He received accusations of promoting a "Marxist agenda" and saw group splits and printed packets left at his doorstep.

ANECDOTE

Church Hosts Trump Rally, Loses Staff

Dream City Church hosted a Turning Point/Students for Trump event that featured Trump and openly aligned the church with MAGA politics.
The decision prompted staff resignations and drove political sorting in their congregation.

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COVID-19 church closures, a summer of Black Lives Matter protests, and a tense Presidential election all fan the flames of white Christian nationalism. Two churches in Phoenix react in wildly different ways, with dramatic results.

Content warning: this episode includes a depiction of police violence that might be disturbing to some listeners.

Show Notes:

Learn more: Religious Change in America | PRRI

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

Linda Morris was called to the ministry in 1986 and has served at the First Pentecostal Church, the Mountain States Council and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World including being a founding member of the PAW Single People’s Alliance and a former member of the Convention Evangelism Outreach Services (C.E.O.S.). She recently led the Surge Network Women In Leadership and serves as Outreach Director at First Pentecostal Church where she also teaches biblical worldview, wholistic ministry, and evangelism and outreach for the church’s discipleship classes and other groups

Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me

Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future.

Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ. Nathan joined the Desert Springs Bible Church board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there.

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