When The Wolves Came

6: David and Goliath

Apr 8, 2025

Caleb E. Campbell, a pastor and author, dives into the rising influence of white Christian nationalism under the Trump administration. He discusses how evangelical resistors are uniting with pro-democracy allies, challenging extremism within their faith communities. The conversation highlights the value of pluralism in fostering inclusivity and compassion in churches. They also explore the necessity of diverse leadership in building sustainable pro-democracy movements that engage varied ideological beliefs to combat extremism and support marginalized groups.

39:52

Episode guests

Caleb Campbell

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Pastors face challenges navigating diverse political emotions within congregations while emphasizing hope amidst the disappointment of election outcomes.

A growing coalition of evangelical leaders and secular groups highlights the urgency of combating Christian nationalism to preserve democracy.

Deep dives

The Struggle of Pastoring in a Polarized Environment

Pastoring during election seasons is increasingly challenging as congregations experience diverse emotions and perspectives. The impact of national events, such as elections, creates complex dynamics within faith communities, where differing beliefs and feelings must be acknowledged. Many pastors grapple with the trauma associated with political outcomes, feeling the pressure to offer hope amidst disappointment and division. The voting patterns of white evangelicals, with a significant majority supporting Donald Trump, reflect a troubling trend that complicates the role of spiritual leaders in guiding their flocks through these turbulent times.

Intro

4min

Faith, Politics, and Democracy

9min

Celebrating Diversity in Community and Faith

2min

Bridging Divides Against Extremism

20min

Building a Sustainable Pro-Democracy Movement

4min

The new Trump Administration may openly embrace white Christian nationalism, but Pastor Caleb and other evangelical resistors are gaining momentum. They’re connecting to a bigger pro-democracy movement where faith groups and secular groups are uneasily allied against theocracy.

Show Notes:

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Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years.

Jemar Tisby is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the Church's Complicity in Racism, How to Fight Racism, and How to Fight Racism: Young Reader's Edition. He is also a Professor of History at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville. Jemar is the co-host of the "Pass the Mic" podcast.

Napp Nazworth, Ph.D., is Executive Director of American Values Coalition. He previously worked in academia teaching courses in U.S. government, Congress, and religion and politics; and as a journalist, serving as opinion editor and politics editor for The Christian Post.

Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me

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