The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

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Feb 26, 2024 • 49min

Bill DeWitt ||| Talks the Business Behind Baseball – St. Louis Cardinals President

Join us on this episode as we sit down with Bill DeWitt, III, the President of the St. Louis Cardinals since 2008. We delve into his pivotal role in overseeing every aspect of the team and its affiliates, including the visionary development of Ballpark Village. From the excitement surrounding Ohtani’s deal to the complexities of blackout games on television, even robotic umpires, we unravel the business behind baseball. Get ready for an insider’s perspective on the game, its challenges, and the intriguing intersection of sports and business. Watch the interview HERE! The Circuit of Success podcast. Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host Brett Gilliland and today I’ve got Bill DeWitt III with me. Bill, how you doing? I’m great. Good to be here. Awesome. Thanks for coming over. I’ve got to give a shout out to Timmy Hanser. Tim is in our firm, visionary wealth advisors, and you guys go way back, right? We go all the way back. All the way back. Our dads were in high school together here at my CDS. Yep. And then they went to college together, and we used to do family trips with them. And then of course, you know, his family’s part of the Cardinals as well. So yeah, it goes way back. That’s awesome. Well, great, great guy. We’re lucky to have him. And so you are a Yale graduate and a Harvard graduate. That’s pretty impressive. A Scratch golfer. Maybe. Plus or minus. Plus or minus. President of St. Louis Cardinals, of course. And also in the St. Louis Sports Commission Board, which we share a mutual board there. I did not go to the Christmas party last night. Did you go? I did not. I was unable to make it. So we’ll dive in a lot of great stuff today, Bill. But before we get started, could you kind of just give us a backstory? What’s made you the man you are today? I know that’s a big question, but there’s usually something in there that I like to draw out of people and would love to hear your message. Yeah. I mean, I think for me, starts with family, you know, born and raised in Cincinnati. My parents are both from St. Louis. They, they were raised here. But in the my dad’s father, my grandfather, was in baseball’s whole life. And he bounced around. So he was with the Browns, the Cardinals, the Yankees, the Tigers. And then in in various roles, but mainly as general manager and part owners of some of those. But he also, his big move was to move to Cincinnati in the early 60s. And he bought the rats. So he was the sole owner and general manager. Wow. And so my family moved there. And then he sold it late 60s. But my dad, my parents stayed in Cincinnati and raised us there. So when my dad got involved in the Cardinals and led the group that bought it from Anheuser-Busch back in 1996, it was sort of a homecoming for them. Yeah. But it was a new city for me. Right. So you were held at that time? I was just at a business school here. And late 20s. And so that’s kind of how I ended up here. But as far as like what made me who I am, that is a big question to start with. Coming out strong. Yeah. I mean, I just would say it’s where I’m family oriented. Love being part of the St. Louis community. And I think, you know, for me, this has been such a great platform to just kind of do what I do, which is I like to do a lot of different things. You know, so my role with the Cardinals keeps me very busy and mostly on the business side of things, but obviously occasionally on the baseball side, mostly on the strategic level. But even with that busy job, I feel like, and I’ve always felt that, you know, to be mentally healthy, I have to also be doing sports and, you know, doing events or things with my kids or my wife or whatever. And then also, I have an artistic side and that which I pursue. And so it’s really about like, I think having my toe in a lot of different waters. Yeah. That’s sort of what I would say describes my approach to life. So I know there’s no typical day using air quotes there. But so what is a typical day like for Build-A-Wit? Well, I mean, any given day, I’ll have two or three meetings at least. So that’s sort of you bounce around those, either with staff or with, particularly this time of year, which is our budget season or planning for next year and wrapping up sort of the employee appraisal process where you’re thinking talking about employees and always fun. Yeah. But we have a great organization and that’s you know, not too hard. And so meetings about various topics, how we’re planning for next year, whether it might be like we’re building a new club in the stadium. So meeting with the construction people on that today. Meeting with some of my direct reports about how we want to handle, you know, budgeting, capital expenditures in other areas. But you know, it depends on the time of year in terms of what my day to day is. So for example, right now it’s a lot of that stuff planning. But as you get towards the spring, you know, I’ll spend some time down in Jupiter with some spring training related activities. And then you get through that period and then you’re back to opening day and you’re planning for the whole show, right? And so, and that’s more of a focus on the operational aspect of the business and how we’re putting on the show in terms of the logistics of the game, the ticketing, the game day entertainment. We might be doing some things relative to leasing at ballpark village meetings with that. Regular meetings on design and planning for maybe a second phase of ballpark village. We, you know, we talk about a lot of, we’re doing a big redo of the Jupiter facility. So there’s a lot of meetings around that. So, you know, there’s just a lot of different topics. Oh, another big topic right now, I’m meeting a lot with people about is our regional and local cable situation, local TV, media is a big sort of disrupted area of our business. So really trying to understand that, trying to understand really what our market really looks like from a TV standpoint, how it’s evolved, how it’s changed over time. And, and where we want to go, if in fact we end up having to sort of handle our TV rights if they come back to us, you know, because right now, Bally Sports Midwest, who pays us a rights fee to broadcast our games, is in bankruptcy. So, or their parent company’s metrics. So, that may be something that we have to dive into. And so we’re doing a lot of planning around that. Is that a good thing? Or, I mean, obviously not a good thing about Bally’s, but to take it back versus I read an article last night, maybe Amazon investing money. Is that what you look at that? I kind of view it as a mixed bag of pluses and minuses. I think from the purely fan standpoint, it’s actually a plus. And here’s what I mean. Over the last decade and really exacerbating in the last several years, as you know, well, I’ll take the big picture and then dial down. You know, call it eight years ago, nine years ago, 10 years ago, there were about 120 million households that were subscribing to the bundle, the cable TV bundle. Okay, that was how everybody got their content. That number is now down to about 60 million. So everybody’s cut the cord, right? And now everybody streams their, you know, ESPN or Disney or Netflix or Amazon Prime, whatever it may be. And they’ve, a lot of people have cut the cord on the bundle. Well, that hasn’t been good for sports teams, or particularly the RSNs that are paying sports teams their rights fees, because, you know, the bundle payments every month that people were paying, you know, a chunk of their little piece of that. So let’s say you paid $120 for your bundle, usually around $4 to $5 of that was going to charter or to AT&T, Uverse or Comcast or whoever. And then going straight to the regional sports network. So every month, everybody on the bundle was paying that annual fee and it was working its way into the sports ecosystem. The RSN, the regional sports network would then pay the teams a rights fee and they were the middleman, they would broadcast our games, they’d pick us a big, big annual fee every year and collect those monthly revenue streams, which is good for cash flow for that. It was great for us, for sports teams. And when I say sports teams, really, at all majorly, you know, football, baseball, basketball, hockey. And that is kind of getting really disrupted. And when I, what’s happened is, is as people have cut the cord, these legacy deals that we’ve had with the RSNs require that we stay on the bundle and don’t actually distribute our games through any other platform, because they wanted exclusivity, which drove people to the bundle. Well, now that people are cutting the cord and now they, and they’re not on the bundle, well, now they don’t have access to the bundle to the extent that we’re still in these long term deals. So if it breaks apart and we get our rights back, we’re actually going to create a broader distribution platform for our fans. So if you were on like, for example, like Dish, and you got Cardinal games, well, they’ve dropped the regional sports networks, because of all the cord cutting, they could afford it. And now if you’re still on there, you don’t get Cardinal games, for example, or blues games. And so you’re essentially blacked out. You’re not getting the games. Or if you’ve just cut the cord and don’t have the bundle, there’s no direct to consumer product. There’s no app, yeah, on which to get the Cardinals and blues games. If this all falls apart, we get our rights back. We would create one of those apps. So every Cardinal app, I can log into that watching my big TV or my phone. Exactly. Yeah, you would finally have access if you’re not on one of those bundles that still have us like charter. So from a long winded answer to your question that I think it would be good for consumers and for our fans who will now have a way to access our product if they’ve been cut off. For the teams, it’s like a step back before we get to step forward. So there will be, and we’re already seeing it, it hasn’t quite hit us yet, but we’re planning on it, teams are going to get less than they were promised. Because if in the old system, they were getting this guaranteed rights fee growing every year, the middleman was this RSN parent company Diamond Sports. They were using their leverage of having all these teams to get distribution everywhere, and it was a big business. They’ve fallen on hard times, they’re in bankruptcy. And now those rights will come back to teams. They already have, for example, in several of the baseball teams last year. And now the teams have to go out and get their rights fees themselves. It’s sort of eat what you kill. And because of the way it was all packaged before, they were getting more and they’ll have to, in most cases, take significant step backwards. But I think that there’s a path perhaps over time to get back to where we were and then grow up beyond that with again a better model for consumers. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. It’s a lot there. I mean, that’s a talk around us, you know, folks, I still have it. I have the bundle package, so I can get the card on game. And half the reason I do that is for the card on game, right? So it’s, yeah, it’s interesting. But behaviors are changing so much. I mean, oh, these guys that are in our studio here, they’re probably looking at their screens and getting their content from the device in their pocket as opposed to, so there’s a lot of change in disruption. And we got to understand what those patterns are and do right by our fans and really give them better access. So I mean, how do you think about speaking of these guys over here? So, you know, when I was a kid, I mean, I remember the days of, you know, I didn’t have a phone as competition to watch and watching all the social media stuff, but I was the goofy guy that was doing the scorebook, right? And doing that watching Cardinal games and all that. I don’t, I don’t see it as much with kids. And I’ve got four boys. I don’t see it as much with kids sitting down watching a whole game. So how are you planning for that to make sure your product stays relevant for that generation? Yeah, I think it’s a, it’s a big topic, but just I’ll be sort of brief for my answer. Baseball is trying to evolve to that newer pattern. The biggest change, I think, which was well received was the pitch clock last year. It increased the pace of games. We took, you know, 26 minutes off the average game. That was a huge move for an industry that hasn’t, you know, innovated very much over the last century. So that was well received. I think the pace of the game is a lot better. And I think baseball is really in some respects. And I think they should apologize for this. It’s different. It’s different than hockey, which I love. It’s different than football and basketball in the sense that it’s a summer sport. There are more games than these other sports. It’s really a conversation. It’s a soundtrack of the summer. And when you go to a game with your kids, you know, it’s about passing along tradition and enjoying a nice lazy day. Of course, there’s tension and excitement in a game as it builds. But I think that in some ways, it’s a relief and a break from the frenetic move from one little dopamine hit to the next every day and every content thing that people are absorbing. And so I think we need to position ourselves as the anti phones. Now, yes, we have to be available on every device and people need to be able to see it. But the reality is, kids aren’t going to watch three plus hours of baseball on their device. It just doesn’t, you know, so in the old days, you would, you know, have a cookout and it would be on the radio in the background, right? That’s how you absorbed it. That’s how you enjoyed the soundtrack. Now, everything’s a little quicker, not quite as slow, but I think baseball can be that way to pause and be almost like this generational story that we keep repeating. And I think if we position it that way, while making changes to the game to give it a better pace, a better cadence, a better version of itself, more balls in play, more lead changes, more hits, less strikeouts. I think those two things sell what it is against the way the other sports are, but also move towards a little quicker pace. Those two things, I think, will keep us relevant, like it. I’m bouncing around between baseball and just normal life. For you outside of baseball, obviously, you’ve had a great journey and meant a lot of amazing people, I’m sure, along that journey. Can you share some of those, some of the things that people have stuck out for you that you’ve learned stuff from them that’s really helped mold who you are today? Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, I would say in the passions that I have on business-wise, I got to throw my dad in there. Just a great mentor. You know, it kind of, to me, is the model of somebody who can be successful and effective while also being a nice guy and being very compassionate and somebody who cares about people in the organization. And, you know, that’s a great model because, you know, a dictator can also be very effective. And I’ve seen it, you know, in business and then we all see it in politics sometimes, too, but I’d rather be successful and get to the same place while pulling everybody along. And that’s been my, my business mentor. I would put Mark Lamping in there, too. He had my job before I did and ran the Cardinals in a little different way, but I took over from him and he was, um, uh, kind of showed me the ropes in terms of how to oversee the business side of things. He’s with the Panthers now? He’s now with the Jacks. Jacks. Well, Jacks. Yeah. He’s, after the Cardinals, he went and helped the Jets and Giants finish out the, that’s a big stadium, you know, and then did the Jaguars where he is now. Um, I would say from a, um, a creative standpoint, I had this teacher in high school. His name was Mark Potter. He was a great artist and, and his own right. Uh, and he was one of these guys who, um, you know, like when you’re a kid in art class, the teacher will like, sort of not touch your painting and be like, Oh, well, maybe you should consider this or look up this artist and get an example of what you might want to, where you want to go with this. This guy would be like, he was the opposite of that. He would come into your, into your, uh, space and be like, get out of here. Give me this. And he would start painting and working on it and he would take it from, it was like a two. He would take it to like a seven and he’d be like, now you take it from seven to 10. And it would just be like the funniest thing you would watch and people were like bombed and like, this thing’s a piece of crap and he’d be like, yeah, it is. Let us just like, he made it so fun. And it was like, um, it was an inspiration for me because, um, he also had other talents, but he just had this impulse to be creative and he couldn’t help himself. And it was contagious. And so that’s kind of stuck with me. That’s interrupt. I think made me think of leadership. Sometimes, you know, you have a young man or woman working and, and get a pull them with you. You can see in them what they may not see in themselves yet. So I don’t know why my mind went there, but maybe did that also help you see bigger than what you could see before, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, um, well, it’s inspiring when you’re, you’re stuck on a problem and somebody just, you know, they can fix it and they do that and you’re just kind of like, wow. Um, and then, uh, so that, that was sort of a mentor on the creative side. Um, I mean, on the athletic side, I would say, you know, various coaches along the way have meant a lot to me. Um, and you know, people that just have that passion for sports that rubs off. And again, that’s what carries you sometimes because, you know, sports can be frustrating, business can be frustrating. But when you meet somebody along your journey who is like embraces that, embraces the, the struggle and works, figures out a way to get through it. Yeah. Um, those are kind of the mentors that stick with you and keep you going and keep you, you know, motivated to keep doing what you’re doing. Who was that person? If there is any that was maybe gave you tough love. You didn’t like it in the moment. Uh, but you look back, you know, I got hit in my back. Yeah. Uh, I think back to high school when, um, uh, you know, I was, I guess early in freshman or something year, I was just not writing well. I was like a struggle for me. And, uh, I had a teacher that was just crushing me on the grades, but it would be like, I’d get the paperback and it was just marked up. There’d be paragraphs of how you should have moved it over to this topic or moved it on. And then kind of by the end of it, it’s really similar to that, that artistic example I gave. Um, and I grinded through it. Um, and just the guy worked with me on it. And it, you know, if a teacher like invests that time in you, it’s so motivating because you don’t want to let the person down. Right. And by the end of sophomore year, I was in honors English. And that was like truly attributable to that one teacher who basically saw something in me. And, you know, just was like, no, you’re going to get better at this, you know, and brought me along. Yeah. When the teacher was, what’s the old saying? The teacher appears when the student is ready. Yeah. You were ready. Oh, yeah. I think I was. So, um, how do you stay a student speaking of being a student? How do you stay a student of the game now with your role today with the Cardinals and all the other stuff you’ve got going in your world? Um, because you didn’t, you know, you didn’t go to construction school and you didn’t do this. You didn’t do that, but you got to put a lot of pieces of the puzzle together. So how are you stating a student in the game? Yeah, I would say, um, um, probably from a baseball oversight standpoint, it’s pretty easy because, you know, it’s something that people just gravitate to as, as an interest. And then so like, you know, you have highlights, you have your, um, ESPN, whatever it may be where you get your sports information. I get it just like, you guys do. Um, there might be some additional, um, information while there’s a mountain of information internally to the Cardinals about people. But at the end of the day, it’s just fine tuning. I mean, we all know that Otani is the best player, right? It’s, but, but it’s how much better is he than the next best guy on a very, and then how do you translate that, that ability and that talent into sort of a, uh, a money dollars and cents equation that becomes critical for how we determine, you know, what to pay a player or how to manage the roster and the payroll with limited resources. So, um, I would say that I’m just like any fan. I get my information from the same sources. I watch games, I have fun watching them. I’m a fan when they’re happening. And then when it comes down to making decisions, you kind of just, um, you work all that additional information to fine tune the decision-making, understanding the system of how MLB works and then, and then how an individual team works as well. And that’s really what I think is interesting to people when I have conversations with them is like, there’s that another level of understanding how decision-making occurs. Um, and it’s hard to like, and that’s why these are fun, long form formats, which I enjoy because when you just read an article of, let’s say a sports writer bashing us for being cheap or this or that, it’s just such a lazy way of, um, of criticizing. Like we deserve criticism, but what, but when, when the writer in many situations, but when a writer just takes the easy way out and just says, you’re cheap, you stink. That’s it. You just, it’s so blatantly obvious that they just haven’t on their homework. They don’t understand the decisions we’re facing, the budget limitations, and where, um, where the real challenges are in, in constructing rosters. And so when, when you do kind of open up the hood a little bit with people and bring them in and show them like, you know, not the proprietary player data, for example, but just the, the way in which you have to think long term versus short term, because we’re in it for the long term, but you also want to win, you know, this year. Um, that’s when you really get, I think, interesting feedback from people. And the good thing about cardinal spans is they’re very informed. So for the most part, yes, there’s internet trolls and, you know, lazy armchair quarterbacking, but I think the majority of fans like kind of get it that we are in a economic system. We only have so many resources. We’re doing our best to win next year, but also set ourselves up for future years. And that, that those, those sort of decisions require trade offs. And when they understand those trade offs, typically their criticism when well informed is well taken. So you mentioned his name, so I’m going to bring it up, but Otani, so you think of that contract, what two million a year for 10 years and then 68 million from 11 through 20. So I look at it as the armchair quarterback is if that’s great. And again, I don’t understand how it all works in baseball, but if he’s only going to get paid two million, I look at it and say, Oh, okay, that’s going to help me from the Dodgers sign more players for the next 10 years. I don’t know if that’s right or wrong, but now if I’m the Dodgers fan 11 years from now, and I saw it was 68 million, there’s basically $85 million as their payroll in 11 years from now with Freddie Freeman, Mookie Betts and Otani. So I already know as a fan, if I was a Dodgers fan, $85 million in 11 years. So how do you look at that, what you can or want to share as a business guy, I look at that and scratch my head and like, I don’t like that deal. Yeah. Look, what can you share about that? The way I think about that deal, and I don’t know if this is how the Dodgers are thinking about it because I’m not in their head, but if the way I look at it is it’s actually not deferring it. Whatever their obligations are from year 11 and beyond, we’ll already have been thought through and dealt with in my view. What I would do if I were them is I would put whatever the present value number of that obligation is aside this year. So like if he’s getting, you know, 70 million or 68 million in year 11, what does that mean for this year? If you bring it back, it probably means something like 45 million. I mean, just doing raw numbers. And so I would put cash in the bank at 45 million so that it generates the interest or return depending on how they process their their asset accounts and manage their money, which by the way, Gunga and that’s what they do. Yeah. So I suspect that there’s probably something along those lines in there. And that’ll grow to pay the 69 or 68 number in that 11th year and do the same thing in year two and year three. So by the end of that 10th year, you really don’t have a liability or an obligation. That’s how I would you would or treat it myself. Now if they’ve got some magic trick up their sleeve about, you know, some giant payday that they have coming in 11 years, I mean, who knows? Maybe there’s a TV or $3 billion that I don’t know about. Yeah, we’ll carve off 680 million. So if you kind of look at it from a present value standpoint, it’s really like a, I don’t know, $450 million type of contract if they take those steps to play with the time value of money and the high interest rates don’t hurt right now for it. Right. And I think that was part of it. Yeah. I’m sure that was the the angel that the agent probably wanted that seven handle in front of the number. And how are we going to get there? That’s too much. We can’t afford that, but we can afford whatever for something. Okay. Well, you can get your seven handle and I can get my actual 400 something if we play this game and he gets the headline and we get the player. Yeah. And I think too, one of these smart young men over here said something about, they heard that, and this is all here. So who knows, but do you think of it this way? Is it, oh, Tani now gets $2 million a year and with California tax that 11th year, he can move to wherever Florida and not pay taxes as much. Right. There could be a tax play for him, which again, is one of those things that can help bridge a gap. Right. If the tax play for the player makes the deal more valuable to him, okay, great. Yeah. You know, that’s one element that you factor in to try to reach agreement on a deal between the bid and the ask. Yeah. So now switching back kind of the business and baseball since that’s your world, but your philosophy when you look at talent. So a lot of business leaders listen to this podcast. So when they’re listening to it right now, what’s your philosophy when hiring and looking for talent? And I’m not talking like a baseball player. I mean, meaning like, you know, the business side. Yeah. Well, we’re going through that right now with the, you know, one of our VP positions. And I would say that, you know, for us, it depends on the role, right? But you want somebody who’s an expert in the field. You want somebody who is hopefully passionate about the Cardinals and baseball, because I think that’s just like a really base element of what makes our organization, you know, exciting to work for is everybody’s pulling in the same direction. They’re all Cardinal fans. We all celebrate when the team does well. And so having that element, I think it’s important. I think that it doesn’t necessarily always need to be perfectly relevant baseball experience, obviously, depending on position. Like, for example, if we need a new CFO, for example, there will be probably 90% of what that person needs to bring to the table would be, you know, the education and the experience and the knowledge of what any CFO job would require. And then 10% would be probably really specific to the baseball industry. And that’s what, you know, might lead to down the path of seeing if somebody already has, you know, that experience in the game or in another sport or something like that. Those are just a couple examples. And this, he’s our CFO now, has done it for many, many years. He was back in the A.B. days as well. We tend to enjoy sort of a little bit of a good cop-bad, cop routine with our employees, you know? And that’s an example of where slightly different styles, I think, help and can work when you’re working with employees and budgeting and doing all that stuff. Now, when you’re talking about, let’s say, a different aspect of the business, like, let’s say, game day entertainment, you know, running the show, putting on 81 days a year and concerts and things like that. Now, that’s somebody who you’re going to want to have that enthusiasm, that excitement that comes to work every day, and has a passion for seeing a smile on a fan’s face, who has a good knowledge of history and might have a good sense of humor. So I think it’s really, I think it’s role dependent in terms of those things I would look for in an important hire. But the baseline, I guess, requirement for me is that they buy into the excitement and cardinal fan and rowing in that same direction, and too, that they’re going to thrive in sort of a family environment situation where expectations are high. But it’s not going to be like, you know, Machiavellian in the culture. Speaking of concerts, I went to the Lute Combs and the Morgan Wallen concert this year at Bush. They were phenomenal. I’m always like, that’s a ton of work. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Those are big deals for us because Billy Finlay over here, I’m sure he loves that. He’s, yeah, we need to get him off suicide watch when we add new concerts to the mix. But now he does well, and he gets it, right? I mean, a concert will risk making the field look a little shoddy after the fact, which, you know, things his pride a little bit. But he totally gets it. So we appreciate his patience when we do those. But you’re right, when 81 days a year, we pretty much kind of have our pattern down and our routine and our, it’s not that isn’t a ton of work. But when you do a concert, it’s really kind of different. You know, you have different graphics. A whole new, sometimes Usher crew, you have the whole load-in and, you know, technology and production crew that sort of takes over the place. And that creates the need for a ton of collaboration between our special events group, who puts on these concerts for us, and manages the talent and the relationship with the company that’s putting on the concert and the talent’s crew, and our stadium operations team, who are, you know, there to help with all the logistics, all the operational challenges that something like that entails. I like it. They rent that from here or there’s revenue share? You can have different economic arrangements. We’ve taken some, you can take more risk or less risk. I mean, a Cardinals or if you’re the at. The Cardinals. Yeah. The act itself usually gets a guarantee. And then the live nation or the, or the group that’s promoting and running the overall tour, that group will look to the team and the venue to either get a guaranteed rent, which is one number, or maybe the team wants to take a little bit of risk in the hopes of getting a bigger number, thereby reducing the risk of the promoter. Yes, reward. Daily habits for Bill, Dewitt, and the third. If I were to follow you around, or Jeff over here, or is to follow you around that camera, what’s you going to see day in, day out that has no mishabits for you? Yeah. The thing that I’ve been doing for about six years now is a morning stretch routine that takes about only 15, 20 minutes. It’s really helped me. And what it is, I just, I don’t, it’s something I commit to. I just, I got to do it. So I build in that 10 minutes. Whether you want to, I’m in a rush. I’ll make it 10. If it’s lazy a little bit, I’ll make it 20. And I feel like it just gets me moving, gets my body moving. It’s more of an activation thing to get out of bed. And then more recently, and I do, I still play hockey. I still play men’s hockey. So I love that. I hope I can keep going. Usually about twice a week with the Blues alumni. And that’s just like something I commit to. It’s an early skate. So I’m back in the office by 9.30 and just love it. I’ve always been a hockey player. And then checking in these games? No checking. Thank God. I still wouldn’t be doing it in any case. Occasionally you’ll have some incidental class or that. But, and then I guess in the last few years, I’ve added sort of a lifting small cardio type of 30, 45 minutes is about three days a week. So I’ve found that that helps me keep up this lifestyle and routine that I have with other afflictions like golf and hockey. You tried, have you seen a golf forever training device? I haven’t. No. Check it out, golfforever.com. I’m not getting paid to say that, but I like it. Because I’m aging. It’s, one of those things is get a resistant band and some golf, the golf grips, and just different exercises you do to stay fit. But stay strong core for the golf game. Yeah, I’ll have to check that out. Yeah. So I’m going to say two words. I’m anxious to see what comes to mind for you. Game seven. Game seven. I thought you would have said game six. Oh, sorry. Gosh, dang it. I even wrote down in my wrong, my notes. You are speaking. You are right. That’s right. That’s right. I have a game six and a game seven. How’s that? So game six was that crazy game in 2011. And my story on that is very personal because it has to do with my son, Will. And of course, you know, you’re just a ball of tension on the morning of the World Series game when you’re in the management side of things. And you want it to go well, you know, and there’s all these logistics and MLB comes in and their whole team is here because it’s kind of their asset is the postseason. But then your group has to put it on. It’s like this collaborative thing. And there’s a lot of work and you’re doing it sort of overtime stuff. But you’re also just like when the game finally starts, you’re just like, please win. Well, game six was I was up in the suite. I was moving around a lot, but I ended up in the suite the second after the game. My son was there. He was like, he was like nine or 10 at the time. And we had the Hall of Famers there and a bunch of people in and out of the suite and Lou Brock was staying kind of throughout the rest of the game. And for some reason, like, we had a big moment middle of the game and Lou and my son like did a big high five and I was cute. And I was like, oh, that’s a cool memory. And then, you know, the game started to flip back and forth and, you know, the Rangers hit that home run and we’re just like, oh, so deflated. And then my son started crying, especially after the extra inning home by Josh Hamilton. Because that was it. Like it was over after that. We fought, we battled back and forth. We staved off elimination. And then it was like, okay, now we’re done. And so we’ll start crying and Lou goes, well, come on. They’ve come back before. They’re going to do it again. And you could tell Lou didn’t mean it. Come on. We just like this little kid crying. Like you got a lift of spirits and Will was like, okay, thanks. Well, lo and behold, we did come back again. The freeze triple and then the freeze homer and the actual pure celebration of both of those two, you know, the 10 year old boy and the, you know, whatever he was, 75 year old, Lou Hall of Famers were equally as excited as excited in that moment. And that like just for me was symbolized what it meant for everybody in Cardinals nation from a little kid to a Hall of Famers who had had those moments himself. I mean, he batted like 350 in the World Series, but yet he was a kid in that moment. And so then game seven comes around and I’ve never been so nervous watching something in my life because what happened the night before was so dramatic, was so outlandish. And was so great for our fans. But you lose that game and it kind of becomes a footnote, history. Like you got a win game seven. And for the first time in my 10 year as being part of the organization, they were like two or three moments where I literally couldn’t watch. I got up and I just started walking around the concourse. And because I was just so nervous, I just couldn’t handle it. I can’t do this. Yeah, I just, I couldn’t do it. And anyway, that was short lived and we ended up winning that game and it was pretty surreal. It was kind of dreamlike when you’re about to win a game seven and you want to celebrate and get super excited. But then all of a sudden this, this weight of like, oh shit, I got to be like on my game. Like I like, there’s this whole script that needs to play out. And I need to be a part of that. Like, where am I, where’s my family going to go? Are they going to do I need to go tell the security guy to let them on the field? Or I got to, I’m going to do the celebration. Then we’ve got all these owner partners who might want to be part of it. And I got to like, just, you know, there’s a, there’s an on field thing where the commissioner’s up there handing the trophy. Who’s going to be on the stage? I got to get my dad, where he was in downstairs. I was up there like Mo. Where is he? He was in the press. It was like all of a sudden, like I was able to enjoy it for about five minutes. And then I just sort of had to get my game face on and pause the celebration. And then like, finally, I think we did all that on field stuff and, and photos and all this crazy stuff. And then I was able to like, when all the media died down in the champagne and all that, I was, I was finally like, did this big exhale, had a beer and I was just like, oh my God, this is great. It’s the greatest beer ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s just a great beer. Yeah, because you think, I mean, it’s not like a direct route from the suite down to the, you know, the dugout and all that stuff, right? So you got to get through the people for a little bit or maybe get the elevator, I guess. Yeah, yeah, it just, it was a logistical thing in your head just spinning on who’s, who do you have to coordinate what’s up and, but that’s, those are great problems to have. Great problem. If we want more of those problems, the nice thing is, so my wife and I were married October 27, 2001. You guys won it in 2006 on our five year anniversary and on October 27. And then game six was October, and it was supposed to be game seven, right? But there was a rain out, right? And it pushed everything back. Which helped us. It did get a little pitching for game seven. So October 26 games, game six, we were there for that when my dad and her dad and then we’re back the next night. So that was a long couple days. It was, you know, these long playoff runs in October, I’m really hoping to have one again soon. Yeah, they’re, they can be a beat up on fans too. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, it’s tough on the liver. Well, it can’t be that too. And so that’s, that’s why they don’t happen every year, I guess. But when they do you, it’s so worth it. When you look back at, of all the memories of the St. Louis Cardinals, what, what’s some of your biggest memories? I mean, obviously what you just shared. But any other memories that you’d want to share that you think are important to you or important to your family? Yeah, I mean, I would say that the, the 06 win was so unexpected as well. We had been knocking on the door for a long period of time. We’d incredible teams. Like the 2014 was so special on 105 teams, I think. And, you know, got swept in Boston, which was very disappointing. And to have such a great season end on such a down note was like, God, are we ever going to break through? You know, we, we had the best team. Yeah. And what happened in 06, and then 05 was, was a good year, but then 06 happens and we’re not the only three wins season. Yeah, yeah, 83 wins. We had 83 wins. Yeah. But what happened is, we had all these injuries and, and then, but what would happen is in, is in September, you realized, like, when we were in the end of the season, these guys came back from injury, we’ve got this 04 team on the field right now. They’re fresh. Edmonds was back healthy. Poo Holes, Roland, I mean, and they were fresh. And they, um, Carpenter was back healthy, you know. Weino was closing out games as a rookie or maybe had had a cup of coffee or whatever. But Izzy was hurt. So that was like a problem. But here comes Weino. Who is this guy? So that was like, not just great because they defied expectations and ran the table in October. But I feel like it was the culmination of having knocked on the door many, many times for that with even better teams that didn’t quite get it done in October. And so it felt almost like a relief to see my dad finally hold that trophy after really a lifetime of aspiring to that. That was what was special to me. Yeah, that was how were you and your dad feeling in New York when it’s game seven and Cardinal killer Carlos Beltran’s up to bat with two men on. I was about to puke. Honestly, I really couldn’t. And there was no look in a way. You were right there and I was right there. And I was just like, I just wanted to crawl into a hole. Like I was just like, God, no, please, you know, just something good happened. And, uh, and Uncle Charlie was born. Oh man. That was, that was a moment. That was incredible. Let’s talk about gambling. That’s always a fun topic, isn’t it? So State of Missouri does not have gambling. How does that play into for the St. Louis Cardinals? Your guys’ thoughts on that? It’s obviously getting big whether we like it or don’t like it. It’s getting big in the world we live in today. So how is that going to play out if this assumes Missouri gets it? How’s that going to play out for you guys? Well, we’ve been very active in trying to get it legalized. And the reason is, well, I’ll give you two reasons. One with my Cardinal hat on and one with my Missouri citizen hat. I’ll start with a Missouri citizen. So we have it. It’s legal in all of our surrounding states. Okay. So people are driving across the borders and across those rivers on either side Casey and St. Louis and they’re placing bats legally in these other states. So it’s happening. Okay. Not unlike the marijuana issue where it’s happening illegally and unregulated and no tax revenue. Why don’t we legalize it, control it, regulate it, and collect the tax revenues. And decriminalize. Similar to this sports betting is it’s happening. And when people do it in Missouri, who knows who they’re placing bats with on it. I mean, it’s like rushing offshore accounts and God knows what, right? It’s unregulated and unenforced because of the lack of stigma anymore. It’s everywhere else. Nobody’s going to go crack down hard on somebody’s online bookie in Missouri. It’s not happening. So that tax revenues literally just were forgoing it in Missouri. So all these renegade offshore, whoever can collect it. And so from that standpoint, I think it’s silly that we’re not taxing, regulating it and legalizing it. From a cardinal standpoint, and we’ve been very active in pulling together all the pro sports team in Missouri to be on the same page to lobby for this, it benefits us in a couple ways. The first way is that we think it opens up our sports fan interest to a younger audience, a younger demo. It creates a different kind of engagement and pretty intense engagement. When you put a hundred bucks on a game, you’re dialed in, right? Or if you’re on some sort of trifecta or whatever and you’ve got this player and that player, you’re watching that game and then you’re flipping over to the other game to see how your guy’s doing. Like, you know, and there’s an element of that that is fun. I mean, let’s face it. It can be problematic. Obviously, people can get addicted to this. And that’s why in our lobbying, we want to make sure that there’s a robust fun for problem gaming. Obviously. But we think that it creates this engagement from the younger demo, particularly in light of our previous conversation about how viewing habits have changed and how it might be hard for the intergeneration to sit down and watch a 3R game online or whatever. This creates that excitement and that factor that I think creates interest in our sport. The second thing that I think is in it for the Cardinals, and I’ve been pretty transparent about this because I don’t think we should be, you know, hiding our interests because we’re out there lobbying. It’s a taxpayer decision. So is that it opens up a huge sponsorship category for us. So when it’s legal, the sports betting operators are going to want to reach our fans, right? And how they’re going to reach our fans? Well, they’re going to come to us and say, Hey, I need a sign on the outfield wall. I’d like to be on your radio broadcasts. I’d like to be the official online partner of the Cardinals. Okay. Well, that opens up a real nice revenue stream for us that our competition is already getting. Right. Okay. So, you know, for those who are on the side of spend more guys, we got to keep up with the Joneses. Well, there’s a way for that to happen. Yeah. I mean, look with our friends at North, the white and blue team. I don’t want to mention. Absolutely. And they got that thing in the outfield that I understand is they’re going to share revenue, right? On the gambling and the food and the food. They’re, they’re gaming revenue. And I’m sort of guessing because I don’t see their books. Sure. But it’s probably in the 15 to 25 range. That’s a star player. It’s a star player. It’s a star player. Okay. So let’s not hide from that reality. That’s part of what it is. And as you know, we pretty much the money is on the field. And to the extent we can drive additional revenue, you know, it’s going to go into payroll. And so that’s what is also in it for the Cardinals. And then I would say sort of the final thing is just, you know, having something perhaps in ballpark village that would be an interesting and exciting. New aspect of it, you know, perhaps like a sports book type of thing, which I think could inject some, some energy down there in those slower times. Yeah. What are we going to do to fix downtown? Well, you know, we’re doing our best. You know, we’re continuing to invest in ballpark village. We had a really good retail leasing year this year with some new big tenants that came in like Katie’s pizza. Yeah. Yeah, it’s exciting. We, we’d like to do another phase. The residential tower has done very well. I think we could do another one. The challenge there is that if we just wanted to build the exact same building today, it would cost about 30% more. And interest rates would be instead of 4%, they’re going to be six plus, right, or more on something like that. So you have two things working against you to try to replicate what we’ve done there, which has been great. Having said that, you know, there might be a couple of tweaks that we could work with the city and the state on with our infrastructure subsidy package that has basically helped prep the sites for these things on ballpark village. That would get us to the finish line on on additional phase, phase three. So, you know, I’m remaining cautiously optimistic that we can keep pushing and, you know, we’re not going anywhere. We’re, you can’t pick up a stadium and a ballpark village and move a declarant like some people do with their businesses. And then I remain very active on a bunch of different things downtown, like with the police foundation and with our community improvement district and with the other business leaders who are, you know, the steeples and the blues and the soccer and the march and the law firms and the investment firms who are downtown to make sure that we do everything we can to supplement what the city can do and what the police can do to make things safer. So we have a lot of things going on that and very active to try to make sure that people feel safe coming down there. And I think we are in a better place than we were a couple years ago. No question about it. We just need for the traffic and the activity to return. And hopefully people hearing this will realize that that it really comes down to them. I mean, what makes, what’s going to make downtown work is, is volume and traffic and interest in events and people coming down and come down to Katie’s Pizza and have your date night down there instead of out and wherever. Yep. Because it makes a difference. Yeah. And I really try to be on my soapbox about that because you’ve got to have a little bit of sense of pride, I think, to make that commitment. If your patterns are just to be, you know, stay in your own little zone and we’re here Metro East, which is great. You could probably, you know, live your whole life right around a five mile radius right here. And the same thing out West. Let’s all commit to adding downtown is something that’s important to the region. That’s right. Well, we did our Christmas party at the Hall of Fame Museum this year. Oh, cool. It was phenomenal. It was so cool. It was a great spot. So for those listening you to place, he’s not paying me to say that. Go there. Last question for you. I think it’s a cool story. It may be hopefully it’s my last question. Eddie Goodell, wearing your dad’s uniform. Tell that story. It’s so funny because growing up, we didn’t really realize that this story would sort of come back around in terms of what, you know, we ended up doing with baseball. But when my dad was a kid, his dad was the general manager of the St. Louis Browns. He’d worked his way up. He came into the league as an assistant to branch Ricky. He would just run errands for him. And he’s, and Mr. Ricky really liked what he did. And so he kind of mentored him in his baseball career. And he got all the way to become general manager of the Browns. And of course Bill Vek was the owner at that time and had this crazy idea. Well, if we get somebody short enough, you know, the pitcher, the strike zone definition would make it impossible. We’ll get four balls all day long and get an automatic block. And so on the second day of a double header, or the second game of double header, Vek brings out Goodell and he hides him in this giant birthday cake. And he pops out of this thing. And I mean, the guy was a really, he had all these zany ideas and he went through with them all. That’s what was crazy about it. And of course the Browns were always losing. And he had a little more latitude with that than if say he was with the Yankees or something. But so he had everything figured out. He had a contract for him because he knew the amps would check on that. He had, you know, had prepped the manager and he had the lineup card line made out with 1-8. You know, so he had a few people that knew about this. But kind of at the last minute, he’s like, oh God, I forgot about the uniform because we’re not going to have one that fits. And then he realized that my grandfather used to order extra uniforms for my dad and his two sisters, little mini versions. Because in those days, you didn’t have a team store that had authentic uniforms in different sizes. It was what the players wore and that was it. And then, you know, you might have a t-shirt or a hat in the store, but that was about it. So they said, hey, Billy, my dad, we need your uniform. He used to go out and play pepper with the players back then and shag balls during batting practice. He’s like, okay, so they grabbed it off him. They took off his number six, which was his favorite number. Because Stan was his favorite player, I think, although that was pre-Stan, no. So he evolved into that being his favorite number and put on 1-8. And then that was the uniform that Eddie used in his one at bat. Walked on four pitches and kind of the rest is history, that great picture of him, you know, taking the ball. And he had this little mini bat. And my dad remembers it was like kind of a weird situation where there was like commotion or whatever. And there was that little toy bat. And he think he remembers seeing that because it was so unusual to see a player batting with such a mini bat. And then he got the uniform back. It really didn’t think anything of it. My aunt Dee Dee, who was smaller in stature, used to wear it for Halloween. She would go out to Halloween parties in this uniform and tell the story and people got a kick out of that. And then kind of as memorabilia started becoming a big thing. And finally somebody said, hey, where’s that uniform? And we said, well, we still have it. It’s in my parents’ attic and mothballs. And we were like, oh, maybe this thing is worth a lot. And we ended up loaning it. He ended up loaning it to the Hall of Fame where they used it for the VEC exhibit when he got into the Hall of Fame. They had that for many years. And now it’s in the Cardinals Hall of Fame. Who saw it the other night? Yeah. It’s a great story. So awesome. I said it was my last question. But can we talk 2024 at all? Sure. Any thoughts, any words you have for our listeners right now? I’m not going to name anybody’s names. We’re on our wish list. But what can you tell us about the St. Louis Cardinals for 2024? Well, I think there’s a lot of optimism because we have a really good everyday club. And anchored by, you know, obviously Goldie and Arunato at the Corners. We have some up and coming players like Jordan Walker and Edmond and Maize and Win could really be dynamited short. And so I think it’s a nice mix. If the improvement is there on these younger players that you would expect because they’re on their way up. And if Goldie and Arunato can keep doing what they’re doing, our everyday club should be fine. It should be actually really good. Play-off caliber. On the pitching front, you know, when you look at last year, there were a ton of like, for example, in the first half, a ton of blown saves. And the bullpen, even though on paper, you know, pretty good, it was fine. I mean, we ended up getting a lot of value for some of these guys that we traded at the deadline. But they weren’t having great years. And there were these moments in time they were like, really, that just really happened. I don’t think that’s going to repeat. I think we’ll do better. I think we’ll save games better next year. We have three guys now that we acquired this offseason in Lancelin, our old friend. Kyle Gibson and of course our headliner, Sonny Gray. All these guys are going to give you a lot of innings. And partly what stressed out the bullpen and caused some of these collapses last year was these, our starters weren’t going very deep. So even if you get, let’s say, somebody to go seven and give up four runs, that’s really giving you a chance to win a team.

Jan 15, 2024 • 1h 4min

Cardinals Broadcaster and Former Pitcher Brad Thompson: From Mound to Mic

Dive into the fascinating world of professional baseball and sports talk radio with our latest episode featuring Brad Thompson. From dreams of playing in the big leagues in Las Vegas to winning the World Series with the St. Louis Cardinals in 2006. As a former St. Louis Cardinals player turned broadcaster, Brad unfolds his inspiring transition from the baseball diamond to the airwaves. Brett and Brad talk about 2024 season predictions and some of the favorites in Major League Baseball. Tune in for an insightful conversation blending baseball, MLB insights, and the business of sports. ⚾? Don’t miss this episode of The Circuit of Success! Check out the Youtube Interview Here! 00:00:16.000 –> 00:00:19.000 I’ve got my buddy, Brad Thompson. 00:00:19.000 –> 00:00:20.000 What’s up, Brad? How are you doing? I’m 00:00:20.000 –> 00:00:21.000 doing great, man. Thanks for having me. I 00:00:21.000 –> 00:00:23.000 was getting bored at the house. I’m glad 00:00:23.000 –> 00:00:25.000 somebody called finally. Well, yeah. You’re doing radio 00:00:25.000 –> 00:00:27.000 now, what? Part time. Is that right? Yeah. 00:00:27.000 –> 00:00:29.000 Filling in a little bit. It’s it’s been 00:00:29.000 –> 00:00:30.000 a change for me. It’s been, as you 00:00:30.000 –> 00:00:33.000 know, I was doing drive time radio, 00:00:33.000 –> 00:00:35.000 on one of 1PM on the fast lane 00:00:35.000 –> 00:00:36.000 for, like, last ten years. 00:00:37.000 –> 00:00:39.000 This past year doing more baseball games, with 00:00:39.000 –> 00:00:42.000 the cardinals, which Brad a blast doing. Season 00:00:42.000 –> 00:00:44.000 didn’t go exactly I had a lot of 00:00:44.000 –> 00:00:45.000 fun doing the games. I’m sure we’ll get 00:00:45.000 –> 00:00:46.000 into that, but, 00:00:47.000 –> 00:00:49.000 I scaled back my work on that side. 00:00:49.000 –> 00:00:50.000 So now I’m not doing that every day, 00:00:50.000 –> 00:00:53.000 and I’m, I’m reintroducing myself of the family 00:00:53.000 –> 00:00:55.000 in the off season. My dog’s not barking 00:00:55.000 –> 00:00:56.000 at me now, so that’s good. Who the 00:00:56.000 –> 00:00:58.000 hell? I’m just gonna change. Yeah. It’s a 00:00:58.000 –> 00:00:59.000 big change. It is a big change, man. 00:00:59.000 –> 00:01:01.000 Well, You are a blast, as I’ve told 00:01:01.000 –> 00:01:03.000 you a million times to watch on, the 00:01:03.000 –> 00:01:05.000 television. I think you do a great job 00:01:05.000 –> 00:01:07.000 with the games. And even despite the season 00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:08.000 we Brad, It was, that’s gotta be tough, 00:01:08.000 –> 00:01:10.000 which I’m gonna ask that later. But, for 00:01:10.000 –> 00:01:12.000 those that don’t know you, two thousand six 00:01:12.000 –> 00:01:15.000 world series champ ESPN Radio, as you mentioned, 00:01:15.000 –> 00:01:17.000 announcer for the Saint Louis cardinals. 00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:19.000 Just an all around great guy, but just 00:01:19.000 –> 00:01:20.000 give us a little bit of lay of 00:01:20.000 –> 00:01:22.000 the background of people that, again, that maybe 00:01:22.000 –> 00:01:24.000 not know who you are. What’s made you 00:01:24.000 –> 00:01:26.000 the man you are today? Yeah. Well, look, 00:01:26.000 –> 00:01:27.000 I I I never 00:01:28.000 –> 00:01:28.000 expected 00:01:28.000 –> 00:01:31.000 or intended to be where I am right 00:01:31.000 –> 00:01:34.000 now. In o’fallon, Illinois live here. 00:01:35.000 –> 00:01:37.000 In the media at all that was never 00:01:37.000 –> 00:01:39.000 a thought. I just saw it was a 00:01:39.000 –> 00:01:41.000 kid who grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada, 00:01:41.000 –> 00:01:43.000 and, I just love playing baseball. 00:01:43.000 –> 00:01:44.000 And, 00:01:44.000 –> 00:01:44.000 it’s 00:01:45.000 –> 00:01:46.000 you generally hear 00:01:47.000 –> 00:01:48.000 people’s story of how they made it to 00:01:48.000 –> 00:01:50.000 the big leagues, and it’s oftentimes the same 00:01:50.000 –> 00:01:52.000 story. It’s like, oh, he’s the best player 00:01:52.000 –> 00:01:54.000 on this team, the best player on his 00:01:54.000 –> 00:01:56.000 high school team, two way player hit home 00:01:56.000 –> 00:01:59.000 runs, played shortstop. That is not my story, 00:01:59.000 –> 00:02:01.000 like, at all. I don’t think I was 00:02:01.000 –> 00:02:02.000 ever the best player on any team that 00:02:02.000 –> 00:02:04.000 I played on, and I’m not talking about 00:02:04.000 –> 00:02:06.000 any big league teams, like Albert Pujols and 00:02:06.000 –> 00:02:08.000 all these guys running around. I’m talking about, 00:02:08.000 –> 00:02:10.000 like, Timmy that picks his boogers wasn’t even 00:02:10.000 –> 00:02:12.000 the best player on on that team growing 00:02:12.000 –> 00:02:13.000 up, but I always loved it. And I 00:02:13.000 –> 00:02:16.000 always, worked hard, and I was just always 00:02:16.000 –> 00:02:18.000 there. Like, you know, I and think that’s 00:02:18.000 –> 00:02:20.000 one of the the biggest things whenever I 00:02:20.000 –> 00:02:21.000 have an opportunity to talk to kids. You 00:02:21.000 –> 00:02:22.000 don’t have to be the best player on 00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:23.000 the team. You don’t have to have the 00:02:23.000 –> 00:02:26.000 best skill set You have to care. You 00:02:26.000 –> 00:02:27.000 have to want to get better and you 00:02:27.000 –> 00:02:28.000 have to work. And if you do those 00:02:28.000 –> 00:02:30.000 things, opportunities might come. And that was the 00:02:30.000 –> 00:02:31.000 case for me. Out of high school, I 00:02:31.000 –> 00:02:32.000 got an opportunity 00:02:33.000 –> 00:02:35.000 right before school was about to start to 00:02:35.000 –> 00:02:38.000 go to a smaller junior college in Utah, 00:02:39.000 –> 00:02:41.000 at the time, Dixie State College, 00:02:41.000 –> 00:02:43.000 now Utah Tech d one school now, but 00:02:43.000 –> 00:02:46.000 a junior college back in the day. And, 00:02:46.000 –> 00:02:48.000 snuck on there did well, 00:02:49.000 –> 00:02:51.000 after my second year there ended up getting 00:02:51.000 –> 00:02:53.000 drafted by the cardinals, and it was just 00:02:53.000 –> 00:02:54.000 a kind of a a whirlwind. Spent two 00:02:54.000 –> 00:02:56.000 years in the minor leagues. 00:02:56.000 –> 00:02:58.000 And a month into my third year, a 00:02:58.000 –> 00:03:00.000 guy called up to the big leagues and 00:03:01.000 –> 00:03:02.000 made a career out of it. And it 00:03:02.000 –> 00:03:04.000 wasn’t the easiest. I I’m well traveled, Brett. 00:03:04.000 –> 00:03:05.000 You know that. I know I know the 00:03:05.000 –> 00:03:07.000 way from Saint Louis to Memphis really well. 00:03:07.000 –> 00:03:09.000 Big leagues to triple a. The ups and 00:03:09.000 –> 00:03:12.000 downs of have been incredibly blessed though to 00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:14.000 be able to to play the game that 00:03:14.000 –> 00:03:16.000 I love and do it as a living 00:03:16.000 –> 00:03:18.000 and now jump into this, which again, wasn’t 00:03:18.000 –> 00:03:20.000 unexpected. Yeah. I think I owe you a 00:03:20.000 –> 00:03:22.000 couple lunches still from little kids baseball. Can 00:03:22.000 –> 00:03:24.000 we talk about that on a podcast? Yes. 00:03:24.000 –> 00:03:26.000 We didn’t do that. We did not bet 00:03:26.000 –> 00:03:28.000 on lunch and his kids We just had 00:03:28.000 –> 00:03:30.000 webs my kids team all the time. And 00:03:30.000 –> 00:03:31.000 We had hunches of gonna lie. I had 00:03:31.000 –> 00:03:33.000 a hunch. Yeah. You were you were betting 00:03:33.000 –> 00:03:36.000 with your heart. It was crazy. Like, he 00:03:36.000 –> 00:03:37.000 didn’t even have a chance, but, hey, we, 00:03:38.000 –> 00:03:39.000 we tried to make happened. So I was 00:03:39.000 –> 00:03:41.000 gonna ask you too. Have you, have you 00:03:41.000 –> 00:03:42.000 seen Tiger Woods lately? 00:03:43.000 –> 00:03:45.000 No. Have you? No. Just in spring training. 00:03:45.000 –> 00:03:46.000 Just in spring. When you and I were 00:03:46.000 –> 00:03:49.000 creeping his restaurant. Damn. So what’s that private 00:03:49.000 –> 00:03:51.000 party out there? Looks like an awful lot 00:03:51.000 –> 00:03:53.000 of security for just a normal private party, 00:03:53.000 –> 00:03:55.000 doesn’t it? You and I are peaking. Yeah. 00:03:55.000 –> 00:03:57.000 Tiger was there. Tucker was there. We were 00:03:57.000 –> 00:03:59.000 in the same restaurant. We’re having dinner, Brad 00:03:59.000 –> 00:04:01.000 and I. And, 00:04:01.000 –> 00:04:03.000 well, my gosh, that’s a lot of people. 00:04:03.000 –> 00:04:04.000 I think I even tried to go to 00:04:04.000 –> 00:04:05.000 the restroom and turn right. And Sorry. You 00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:07.000 gotta go this way. Exactly. 00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:09.000 And then we found out, I think, wasn’t 00:04:09.000 –> 00:04:11.000 it you or me? Somebody got a text 00:04:11.000 –> 00:04:12.000 that Tiger Woods. They didn’t know we were 00:04:12.000 –> 00:04:14.000 there at the restaurant. They’re like Tiger Woods 00:04:14.000 –> 00:04:15.000 is at his restaurant Jupiter, and I’m like, 00:04:15.000 –> 00:04:17.000 oh, crap. We missed him. Yeah. Head his, 00:04:17.000 –> 00:04:19.000 like, daughter, soccer, partner, some either way, I 00:04:19.000 –> 00:04:21.000 think that we could say we had, dinner 00:04:21.000 –> 00:04:22.000 with tag. We had dinner with tags or 00:04:22.000 –> 00:04:25.000 did. Yeah. They were signed their their giveaway. 00:04:25.000 –> 00:04:26.000 You know, my kids, they give away like, 00:04:26.000 –> 00:04:28.000 you know, sour patch kids. I think Tiger’s 00:04:28.000 –> 00:04:30.000 end of the year party. They had signed 00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:33.000 soccer balls from Tiger Woods. That’s pretty good. 00:04:33.000 –> 00:04:34.000 And a whole new bag of clubs. A 00:04:34.000 –> 00:04:36.000 whole new bag of clubs. Well, good for 00:04:36.000 –> 00:04:36.000 them. So, 00:04:37.000 –> 00:04:40.000 let’s talk about post based ball career, man. 00:04:40.000 –> 00:04:40.000 So, 00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:42.000 and you and you already mentioned this, but 00:04:42.000 –> 00:04:44.000 what what did you think you were gonna 00:04:44.000 –> 00:04:47.000 be doing versus what you’re doing now? Yeah. 00:04:47.000 –> 00:04:49.000 So before I ended up signing with the 00:04:49.000 –> 00:04:52.000 cardinals, I had signed to after junior college. 00:04:52.000 –> 00:04:54.000 I was gonna go back to Las Vegas 00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:55.000 go to UN LV. I signed to play, 00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:57.000 there for the for the rebels. 00:04:57.000 –> 00:05:00.000 And my goal was to go into 00:05:01.000 –> 00:05:03.000 criminal justice. I wanted to be an attorney. 00:05:03.000 –> 00:05:05.000 Is is kind of the direction that I 00:05:05.000 –> 00:05:06.000 thought I was heading. 00:05:07.000 –> 00:05:09.000 And, obviously, did not go that route, but 00:05:09.000 –> 00:05:10.000 that was, like, the thought that go get 00:05:10.000 –> 00:05:13.000 into criminal justice. I I thought I wanted 00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:14.000 to go the route of attorney. 00:05:16.000 –> 00:05:18.000 And, that was gonna be the path. Now 00:05:18.000 –> 00:05:20.000 the path took me through baseball. And it 00:05:20.000 –> 00:05:21.000 was tough decision to make at the time 00:05:21.000 –> 00:05:22.000 too because 00:05:22.000 –> 00:05:25.000 I had the chance to get have my 00:05:25.000 –> 00:05:28.000 school paid for potentially get drafted higher maybe 00:05:28.000 –> 00:05:30.000 the next year, make make maybe a little 00:05:30.000 –> 00:05:32.000 bit more money out of the draft, which 00:05:32.000 –> 00:05:33.000 I didn’t make a lot of money. But 00:05:33.000 –> 00:05:35.000 I also thought what if what if I 00:05:35.000 –> 00:05:36.000 never get this chance again? What if I 00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:37.000 never have an opportunity 00:05:38.000 –> 00:05:40.000 to say that I played professional baseball. I 00:05:40.000 –> 00:05:42.000 can always go back to school. Yep. But 00:05:42.000 –> 00:05:44.000 I can’t always get this chance again. So 00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:45.000 ultimately, I landed on that decision. 00:05:46.000 –> 00:05:49.000 And so so grateful that I did. But 00:05:49.000 –> 00:05:51.000 you had never thought that the media side 00:05:51.000 –> 00:05:53.000 was gonna be a thing. And honestly, it 00:05:53.000 –> 00:05:54.000 was it wasn’t even on the radar. I 00:05:54.000 –> 00:05:57.000 wasn’t sure, Brett, what direction I gonna go. 00:05:57.000 –> 00:05:59.000 I knew I was nearing the end of 00:05:59.000 –> 00:06:02.000 my baseball career. I was playing independent ball 00:06:02.000 –> 00:06:04.000 for those that don’t know independent baseball is 00:06:04.000 –> 00:06:06.000 It’s still professional baseball. You get paid. Not 00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:08.000 a lot. You get paid nonetheless, but it’s 00:06:08.000 –> 00:06:10.000 just not affiliated with one of the major 00:06:10.000 –> 00:06:12.000 league teams. I was playing in, the Atlantic 00:06:12.000 –> 00:06:15.000 League which baseball fans will know what the 00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:17.000 Atlantic League is. It’s also been a league 00:06:17.000 –> 00:06:18.000 that’s kinda broken. Some of these major league 00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:21.000 baseball new rules before baseball breaks him in. 00:06:21.000 –> 00:06:21.000 Yeah. 00:06:22.000 –> 00:06:24.000 But a lot of former big leaguers, good 00:06:24.000 –> 00:06:26.000 baseball league. But I was playing there, and 00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:28.000 I just kinda I knew that I was 00:06:28.000 –> 00:06:30.000 I got it. Velocity wasn’t coming back. I 00:06:30.000 –> 00:06:33.000 had Tommy John surgery in twenty ten. And 00:06:33.000 –> 00:06:34.000 for those that know me well, velocity was 00:06:34.000 –> 00:06:37.000 never my thing anyhow. So losing a tick 00:06:37.000 –> 00:06:39.000 off the radar gun, we not a big 00:06:39.000 –> 00:06:40.000 thing, but I got a phone call in 00:06:40.000 –> 00:06:41.000 the off season, 00:06:42.000 –> 00:06:44.000 and this was prior to my final year 00:06:44.000 –> 00:06:44.000 of playing. 00:06:45.000 –> 00:06:48.000 And it was from program director at 01:01 00:06:48.000 –> 00:06:49.000 ESPN. I’m sure I’ve told you this story 00:06:49.000 –> 00:06:51.000 in the past, but he called me and 00:06:51.000 –> 00:06:54.000 said, Hey, I got your number from Chris 00:06:54.000 –> 00:06:54.000 Duncan. 00:06:55.000 –> 00:06:57.000 And Cardinal fans. Remember Chris Duncan. Good. Take 00:06:57.000 –> 00:06:59.000 time. Yeah, man. One of my best friends 00:06:59.000 –> 00:07:02.000 ever, unfortunately, passed away, Brad cancer 00:07:02.000 –> 00:07:04.000 and this was in the beginning of it. 00:07:04.000 –> 00:07:06.000 Dunk was was Brad to leave for some 00:07:06.000 –> 00:07:09.000 medic his, you know, medical issues. And program 00:07:09.000 –> 00:07:10.000 director called and said, Dunk passed along your 00:07:10.000 –> 00:07:11.000 number. 00:07:12.000 –> 00:07:13.000 I said he thought you would be good 00:07:13.000 –> 00:07:14.000 at this. 00:07:14.000 –> 00:07:16.000 Could you fill in on a Monday? 00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:18.000 I said, my wife probably wants me out 00:07:18.000 –> 00:07:20.000 of the house right now. It’s the office. 00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:21.000 Can you pay me a couple bucks? Yeah. 00:07:21.000 –> 00:07:23.000 I’m gonna sit around. I’m gonna sit around 00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:25.000 and watch football all weekend anyhow. That’s probably 00:07:25.000 –> 00:07:27.000 what you’re gonna talk about come Monday. I 00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:28.000 did. And I took over the weekend. It 00:07:28.000 –> 00:07:30.000 was like copious notes, just like you, you’re 00:07:30.000 –> 00:07:33.000 a note taker. Right? I’m Brett down all 00:07:33.000 –> 00:07:35.000 these college games these NFL games, like, come 00:07:35.000 –> 00:07:37.000 in. I get this stack of notes ready 00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:38.000 to go. I didn’t know what to expect. 00:07:38.000 –> 00:07:40.000 I never grew up. I didn’t listen to 00:07:40.000 –> 00:07:41.000 sports talk radio. I didn’t know how big 00:07:41.000 –> 00:07:43.000 of a thing that was. And, like, that 00:07:43.000 –> 00:07:45.000 actually really eye opening to me over the 00:07:45.000 –> 00:07:47.000 years of the connection you can have with 00:07:47.000 –> 00:07:49.000 the fan base actually doing that, but I 00:07:49.000 –> 00:07:50.000 I never had that. 00:07:51.000 –> 00:07:53.000 So one segment in, I get called out 00:07:53.000 –> 00:07:54.000 into the hallway. 00:07:55.000 –> 00:07:56.000 And I’ve said, oh, I must’ve said a 00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:58.000 magic word. I said one of the things 00:07:58.000 –> 00:07:59.000 that you can’t say here. 00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:02.000 And I said, did did that happen? He’s 00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:04.000 like, no. No. He’s like, you’re really good. 00:08:04.000 –> 00:08:06.000 Would you mind staying the rest of the 00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:08.000 week? I said, yeah. Would love to stay 00:08:08.000 –> 00:08:09.000 the rest of the week. And that rest 00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000 of the week turned into the rest of 00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:13.000 the off season, which actually turned into before 00:08:13.000 –> 00:08:16.000 I was going to play, and what what 00:08:16.000 –> 00:08:18.000 was gonna be my final, you know, final 00:08:18.000 –> 00:08:19.000 year didn’t know it at the time. 00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:22.000 But they offered me a full time position. 00:08:22.000 –> 00:08:23.000 At that time, 00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:25.000 on a morning show. 00:08:25.000 –> 00:08:28.000 I said, man, I I I really appreciate 00:08:29.000 –> 00:08:30.000 the opportunity. 00:08:30.000 –> 00:08:32.000 Can’t do it. Like, I need to know 00:08:32.000 –> 00:08:34.000 that baseball’s done. Because the last thing 00:08:36.000 –> 00:08:38.000 that I wanted was to be sitting there 00:08:38.000 –> 00:08:40.000 and doing a job that I like, 00:08:41.000 –> 00:08:43.000 but wondering what could that have been like, 00:08:43.000 –> 00:08:45.000 you know, had I gone back? Maybe I 00:08:45.000 –> 00:08:48.000 found something or maybe magically the arm reappeared. 00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:51.000 Now, fortunately. The arm didn’t reappear, Brett. None 00:08:51.000 –> 00:08:53.000 of that stuff happened. I didn’t want that 00:08:53.000 –> 00:08:55.000 thought. I didn’t want that doubt that, that 00:08:55.000 –> 00:08:57.000 I did the wrong thing. So I went 00:08:57.000 –> 00:09:00.000 back and played. And after a few months 00:09:00.000 –> 00:09:02.000 in, I just knew the timing wasn’t right. 00:09:02.000 –> 00:09:04.000 My wife Andrea, she was pregnant with our 00:09:04.000 –> 00:09:06.000 our first with our first. 00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:09.000 He was born in May. I came home 00:09:09.000 –> 00:09:10.000 for a week. 00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:13.000 And I was like, man, I I’m this 00:09:13.000 –> 00:09:15.000 isn’t the place for me. I got I’ve 00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:16.000 gotta be done. I need to go home. 00:09:16.000 –> 00:09:18.000 I need to be with my family, and 00:09:18.000 –> 00:09:19.000 I need to figure out what is next. 00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:22.000 So I made the phone call, back to 00:09:22.000 –> 00:09:24.000 one one ESPN. I say, Hey, any chance 00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:26.000 you guys still got that job 00:09:26.000 –> 00:09:28.000 sitting there? And he said, we’ve been keeping 00:09:28.000 –> 00:09:30.000 a spot open for you. It ended up 00:09:30.000 –> 00:09:32.000 being in the afternoon show at the with 00:09:32.000 –> 00:09:34.000 Randy Carricker and Demarco Farris. If you’re ready 00:09:34.000 –> 00:09:36.000 to come back, we’re ready to have you. 00:09:36.000 –> 00:09:37.000 I said, well It was just the two 00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:39.000 of them at the time, maybe? Okay. Yep. 00:09:39.000 –> 00:09:41.000 And because it was the three. Chris Duncan 00:09:41.000 –> 00:09:43.000 was the third on that show. And they 00:09:43.000 –> 00:09:45.000 they had left that one open. And, 00:09:46.000 –> 00:09:46.000 fortunately, 00:09:47.000 –> 00:09:49.000 I was able to slide into that, that 00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:51.000 spot and learn so much from them Randy 00:09:51.000 –> 00:09:53.000 Carrick are one of my biggest mentors, and 00:09:53.000 –> 00:09:55.000 I love the way that Demarco Far, who’s, 00:09:55.000 –> 00:09:57.000 you know, he’s now in LA, followed the 00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:58.000 Rams out there. 00:09:58.000 –> 00:10:00.000 I love the way that he went about 00:10:00.000 –> 00:10:02.000 it, the energy and the excitement that he 00:10:02.000 –> 00:10:04.000 had and just kinda feeding off those guys 00:10:04.000 –> 00:10:06.000 and learning along the way and try not 00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:08.000 saying to magic words to get fired. And 00:10:08.000 –> 00:10:10.000 ten years later, you know, here we are. 00:10:10.000 –> 00:10:12.000 It’s amazing. Absolutely amazing. And I I think, 00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:14.000 you know, it’s crazy when you think about 00:10:14.000 –> 00:10:16.000 your career path, what you thought gonna happen. 00:10:16.000 –> 00:10:18.000 I think so many times, you know, we 00:10:18.000 –> 00:10:19.000 do planning for a living. Right? And it’s 00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:19.000 like, 00:10:20.000 –> 00:10:22.000 I plan these things, but, you know, there’s 00:10:22.000 –> 00:10:24.000 other sometimes other plans. And you just don’t 00:10:24.000 –> 00:10:25.000 know what they are. I think when you 00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:27.000 just gotta have trust and you gotta have 00:10:27.000 –> 00:10:28.000 faith and you gotta do great work and 00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:30.000 show up every day. And because I’m sure 00:10:30.000 –> 00:10:32.000 there was days I’ve talked to other players 00:10:32.000 –> 00:10:33.000 that when you when you 00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:36.000 retire, and that thing you love is gone. 00:10:37.000 –> 00:10:40.000 And Yeah. Arguably gone forever, right, that that’s 00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:43.000 probably pretty emotional. And So to find that 00:10:43.000 –> 00:10:45.000 next gear, what what was that process like 00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:46.000 for you 00:10:46.000 –> 00:10:48.000 to find out, and, obviously, you landed into 00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:50.000 that. But was there that emotional thing where 00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:52.000 you had to, like, think and journal and 00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:54.000 dream and do whatever? Oh, you’re huge. 00:10:54.000 –> 00:10:56.000 It was I still remember 00:10:56.000 –> 00:10:59.000 very vividly the drive home. So middle of 00:10:59.000 –> 00:11:00.000 the season Gilliland 00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:02.000 I had, I had given 00:11:02.000 –> 00:11:05.000 my, my manager the heads up, just told 00:11:05.000 –> 00:11:06.000 him I’d say, hey, I’ll stay here as 00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:07.000 long as 00:11:08.000 –> 00:11:10.000 you need to find a replacement for me, 00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000 but I gotta go. I gotta I’m I’m 00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000 ready to go home. He tried to talk 00:11:13.000 –> 00:11:15.000 me into being the pitching coach. I said, 00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000 I I can’t. I gotta And what town 00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:19.000 was that again? This is somerset, New Jersey. 00:11:19.000 –> 00:11:21.000 Okay. Said said, you know, be on the 00:11:21.000 –> 00:11:23.000 same page. She was here. Yeah. She was 00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:25.000 here. Newborn son is here. 00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:27.000 So it it was it was 00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:29.000 flattering that they wanted to keep me around 00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:31.000 and wanted me to be around the team 00:11:31.000 –> 00:11:32.000 and maybe that would have started a new 00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:34.000 patch. Maybe that would have been coaching and 00:11:34.000 –> 00:11:36.000 and going from there. But, 00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:37.000 my heart was here. Right? Had had to 00:11:37.000 –> 00:11:39.000 go home, but I remember the drive. It 00:11:39.000 –> 00:11:41.000 was so bad of calling everybody, calling family, 00:11:41.000 –> 00:11:44.000 calling, like, my wife, Yeah. That’s it. Like, 00:11:44.000 –> 00:11:46.000 it’s a last road trip. So it’s, that’s 00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000 emotional, right, when you’re when you’re going through 00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000 it. But you also know, like, you know, 00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:53.000 something’s over. You know when it’s time to 00:11:53.000 –> 00:11:55.000 move on, and that’s where we were at. 00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000 We were at that that that point. So 00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:58.000 when it comes to like finding a passion 00:11:58.000 –> 00:11:59.000 for a new thing, 00:12:00.000 –> 00:12:02.000 whatever I do, I try to, like, jump 00:12:02.000 –> 00:12:04.000 into. I try to just roll in. The 00:12:04.000 –> 00:12:07.000 energy, the enthusiasm, whether whether it’s it’s doing 00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:08.000 radio, it’s doing an interview, 00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:11.000 hanging out with the family, like, try to 00:12:11.000 –> 00:12:12.000 jump in. There are days where maybe you 00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000 don’t feel like that. Mhmm. But it’s amazing 00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:16.000 if you come in with that attitude as 00:12:16.000 –> 00:12:17.000 you very well know, 00:12:17.000 –> 00:12:20.000 that’s how your day starts going. Right? So, 00:12:20.000 –> 00:12:22.000 I kinda poured into it and it started 00:12:22.000 –> 00:12:23.000 when I got that phone call. Like I 00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:25.000 said, I’m taking the notes and I’m saying, 00:12:25.000 –> 00:12:27.000 if I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do 00:12:27.000 –> 00:12:28.000 I’m not just gonna show up. And I’ve 00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:30.000 seen this a lot now, especially being in 00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:32.000 the business. You see a lot of former 00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:33.000 athletes 00:12:33.000 –> 00:12:36.000 show up and say, I played. I got 00:12:36.000 –> 00:12:39.000 this. Yeah. And then you’re you’re talking to 00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000 him for a little bit or they’re speaking. 00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:43.000 It’s like, he doesn’t he doesn’t have this. 00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:45.000 Like, it’s it’s very obvious that it’s it’s 00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000 not an easy thing to do. I think 00:12:47.000 –> 00:12:48.000 a lot of people at home are are 00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:50.000 saying, boss, easy. I watch sports, easy to 00:12:50.000 –> 00:12:53.000 talk about. Sure. So sometimes sometimes it is. 00:12:53.000 –> 00:12:57.000 Other times, it takes it takes different little 00:12:58.000 –> 00:13:00.000 avenues or or nuances 00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000 to to get through it. So But it’s 00:13:02.000 –> 00:13:04.000 also, like, you gotta you gotta know, you 00:13:04.000 –> 00:13:06.000 know, when to talk, you gotta know when 00:13:06.000 –> 00:13:08.000 your voice goes up. Right? There’s more to 00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:09.000 it than just, oh, I know about Yes. 00:13:09.000 –> 00:13:11.000 Well, and that’s something that you learn as 00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:13.000 you go to. Yeah. And that is something 00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:15.000 that I’ve had to learn a lot more 00:13:15.000 –> 00:13:17.000 with the TV side of things as I’ve 00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:19.000 been doing those ball games for the last 00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:20.000 couple of years is the 00:13:21.000 –> 00:13:23.000 the picture is there on the screen. So 00:13:23.000 –> 00:13:26.000 I can’t be talking about something that maybe 00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:28.000 even I, like, I care about it a 00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000 lot, whatever. I’ve got a good story. If 00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:33.000 they’re showing on the screen, it’s Miles Michaelis 00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:35.000 or whoever, that’s who we’re talking about or 00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:36.000 that, like, that’s what the story is at 00:13:36.000 –> 00:13:38.000 the time. You have to know when to 00:13:38.000 –> 00:13:39.000 get in, when to get out, but it’s 00:13:39.000 –> 00:13:41.000 reps. Yeah. And it’s caring about that. And 00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:44.000 it’s realizing when you mess something up because 00:13:44.000 –> 00:13:46.000 I in my line of work, I know 00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:48.000 when I mess something up, it’s very evident. 00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:51.000 Like, usually there’s producer near yourself. What was 00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000 that? Don’t do it. Nothing. But you you 00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000 care enough to fix it and just going 00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:58.000 back to the jumping into a new thing. 00:13:58.000 –> 00:13:59.000 This is another thing I like to tell 00:13:59.000 –> 00:14:01.000 kids when I get an opportunity or adults. 00:14:01.000 –> 00:14:02.000 It’s a good thing to remember, 00:14:03.000 –> 00:14:05.000 you never know when an opportunity is gonna 00:14:05.000 –> 00:14:06.000 come your way. Yeah. You never know. Nope. 00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:08.000 You know when one passes you, though. Like, 00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:10.000 you know when something just walks out the 00:14:10.000 –> 00:14:12.000 door and say, I should have done that. 00:14:12.000 –> 00:14:13.000 So I wanna be ready for that. I 00:14:13.000 –> 00:14:15.000 wanna be ready for whatever that next opportunity 00:14:16.000 –> 00:14:17.000 is. Yeah. And I I always talk to 00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:20.000 the old paralysis by analysis. Right? You could 00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:22.000 have that opportunity, but so many people will 00:14:22.000 –> 00:14:24.000 go back and they gotta 00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000 think and think and think. And then what 00:14:26.000 –> 00:14:28.000 happens is they think themselves out of it. 00:14:28.000 –> 00:14:30.000 Yeah. This is a great idea because AB 00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:32.000 and see, but then that negative thought up 00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:34.000 here in our mind says, well, I can’t 00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:36.000 do it because I’m this, and I’m that. 00:14:36.000 –> 00:14:37.000 And I think so many times what try 00:14:37.000 –> 00:14:39.000 to help people with is just just take 00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:40.000 action. That’s one of the circuits on the 00:14:40.000 –> 00:14:43.000 circuit of success. Take action. Doesn’t mean you 00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000 have the whole thing figured out. But if 00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:46.000 you trust yourself, again, I’ve said it a 00:14:46.000 –> 00:14:48.000 million times, you show up to work every 00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000 day. 00:14:49.000 –> 00:14:51.000 Good things are probably gonna happen. For sure. 00:14:51.000 –> 00:14:53.000 Right? So liking this to baseball. Okay? Because 00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:56.000 this happens a lot nowadays, paralysis by analysis. 00:14:57.000 –> 00:14:58.000 We have all of this data. We have 00:14:58.000 –> 00:15:00.000 all of these analytics. 00:15:00.000 –> 00:15:02.000 One of my one of the most important 00:15:02.000 –> 00:15:05.000 things I believe for any athlete is trust 00:15:05.000 –> 00:15:08.000 your gut. Like, trust you, believe in your 00:15:08.000 –> 00:15:10.000 stuff. I don’t care, if this guy can’t 00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:12.000 hit this or can’t do that, what do 00:15:12.000 –> 00:15:14.000 you do well? Yeah. What is your strength? 00:15:14.000 –> 00:15:16.000 And I think that’s one of the biggest 00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:18.000 things in any walk of life. Like, what 00:15:18.000 –> 00:15:19.000 what is your strength? Do you trust in 00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:21.000 what you’re doing? If you trust in what 00:15:21.000 –> 00:15:22.000 you’re doing, good things are gonna happen. It 00:15:22.000 –> 00:15:24.000 might not be the direct route that you’re 00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000 expecting it to happen might not be just 00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:28.000 a to b very easy, but you’ll get 00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:30.000 there at some point if you believe in 00:15:30.000 –> 00:15:31.000 what you’re doing. That’s right. Yeah. A hundred 00:15:31.000 –> 00:15:33.000 percent. I’ve I think about 00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:36.000 I my first job out of college, I 00:15:36.000 –> 00:15:38.000 was there for about, six weeks. I don’t 00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:39.000 think I’ve ever told this on the podcast, 00:15:39.000 –> 00:15:39.000 but, 00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000 I was there for six weeks. I was 00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:43.000 in the financial He’s at a different firm. 00:15:43.000 –> 00:15:45.000 And I got a call on a Tuesday 00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:46.000 night that the guy that I was supposed 00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000 to have lunch with the next day, my 00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:48.000 mentor, 00:15:49.000 –> 00:15:51.000 who I’d never met. Yeah. Tomorrow was the 00:15:51.000 –> 00:15:53.000 big day. Right? Here am twenty two years 00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:55.000 old. We’re living in this tiny condo in 00:15:55.000 –> 00:15:57.000 Saint Louis. My wife’s got an internship at 00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:58.000 Barnes. 00:15:58.000 –> 00:16:00.000 We had one car, and I’m gonna go 00:16:00.000 –> 00:16:01.000 this lunch. I get the call on Tuesday. 00:16:02.000 –> 00:16:02.000 He actually, 00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000 died by suicide. Oh my god. And, 00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000 jumped off a building, actually. And and so 00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000 here I am, this twenty two year old 00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000 kid, I’m getting ready to go start literally 00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:13.000 to knock on doors and try to build 00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:15.000 a business and, you know, got acne. I’m 00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:17.000 like, I look like I’m twelve. You know, 00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:18.000 I’m like, hey, give me your money. 00:16:19.000 –> 00:16:21.000 And so I said I’m never gonna be 00:16:21.000 –> 00:16:24.000 in financial planning. I’m never gonna do investments. 00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:25.000 That’s just not my deal. I actually went 00:16:25.000 –> 00:16:27.000 to Bush Stadium. I was gonna the next, 00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:29.000 you know, now jump as they lucked at 00:16:29.000 –> 00:16:30.000 the time, Mark Lamping. That’s what I thought 00:16:30.000 –> 00:16:32.000 I was gonna do. I applied for a 00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:34.000 job. They said, we don’t have any jobs, 00:16:34.000 –> 00:16:36.000 but not a bartender? I said, yeah. I 00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000 know the bartender. They said, we need a 00:16:37.000 –> 00:16:39.000 bartender for the game tonight. So if the 00:16:39.000 –> 00:16:40.000 old bush that you played in, right, they 00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:43.000 had remember the left field at the stadium 00:16:43.000 –> 00:16:45.000 club. Yeah. Yeah. How’s the bartender in there? 00:16:45.000 –> 00:16:47.000 Long story short, I got another call from 00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:49.000 a company that said, come in. Let’s do 00:16:49.000 –> 00:16:51.000 an interview. I said, look, I’ll come in 00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:53.000 for the practice. I was very upfront. Well, 00:16:53.000 –> 00:16:55.000 I spent twelve and a half years there. 00:16:55.000 –> 00:16:56.000 Now ten years of visionary, and I’ve done 00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:59.000 nothing but investment. That’s good practice. Right. Good 00:16:59.000 –> 00:17:00.000 practice. But the point to that is what 00:17:00.000 –> 00:17:01.000 what is the point of that story. Right? 00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:03.000 Right? But I think the point is is 00:17:03.000 –> 00:17:04.000 you never know because what you said, you 00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:06.000 never know where it’s gonna go. How you 00:17:06.000 –> 00:17:07.000 take it, and then you take it to 00:17:07.000 –> 00:17:09.000 the next level by what you put into 00:17:09.000 –> 00:17:10.000 it. Gilliland, 00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:13.000 like, to your earlier point, a tragic event, 00:17:13.000 –> 00:17:15.000 obviously, with with with your mentor, 00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:16.000 but 00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000 that life is not your life. You know? 00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000 Like, there are different things weighing on him 00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:22.000 than weighing on you. It’s not necessarily the 00:17:22.000 –> 00:17:24.000 industry that you’re in. Don’t care if you 00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:26.000 you could be in the happiest industry in 00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:28.000 the world or the saddest industry in the 00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:29.000 world. You’d be in the happiest industry and 00:17:29.000 –> 00:17:31.000 be a sad person. You could be, a 00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:33.000 sad industry and be a happy person. It’s 00:17:33.000 –> 00:17:35.000 your mindset. It’s the way that that you 00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:37.000 go about it, and you just gotta be 00:17:37.000 –> 00:17:38.000 ready for when that one pops up. But 00:17:38.000 –> 00:17:40.000 that is like, I’m thinking about the conversation 00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:42.000 that you had. It was marked lamping at 00:17:42.000 –> 00:17:44.000 the time. Yeah. So and who runs the 00:17:44.000 –> 00:17:46.000 jaguars now. Right? So Oh, I think that’s 00:17:46.000 –> 00:17:49.000 right. I I I’m just picturing. It’s like, 00:17:49.000 –> 00:17:51.000 I’m interested in this job. No, but bartending. 00:17:51.000 –> 00:17:54.000 Yeah. Like, that’s, like, what what a drastic? 00:17:54.000 –> 00:17:55.000 What just happened? Let’s see if this kid 00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000 will do that. Yeah. He will. Yeah. But 00:17:57.000 –> 00:18:00.000 that’s one of the things too. Like, in 00:18:00.000 –> 00:18:01.000 and this is a big thing in the 00:18:01.000 –> 00:18:04.000 radio industry. If someone asks you, hey, can 00:18:04.000 –> 00:18:07.000 you do x, y, or z. Yeah. Yeah. 00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:09.000 Yes. I can. I can do that. And 00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000 you can dig in, you figure it out. 00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:13.000 It can you interview so and so? You 00:18:13.000 –> 00:18:14.000 might be a young producer 00:18:15.000 –> 00:18:17.000 Yeah. I can do that. That’s a chance. 00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:19.000 Like, that is an opportunity. You might be 00:18:19.000 –> 00:18:21.000 scared to death. Nobody knows what you’re feeling. 00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:23.000 Nobody knows what you’re thinking as you’re going 00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000 through it. Take the opportunity. The answer is 00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:27.000 yes. Can you do it? Yes. I’ll figure 00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:29.000 it out. Yeah. Well, Danny Max said in 00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:31.000 this podcast. He said he started with he 00:18:31.000 –> 00:18:32.000 was running tapes or whatever they called it 00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:33.000 back in. Right? He’s like, literally, it’d be 00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:35.000 on a cart. I’d run him from one 00:18:35.000 –> 00:18:36.000 room to the other so the guys could 00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000 talk about on the air. Yes. 00:18:40.000 –> 00:18:43.000 Cut up tape. And Yeah. It’s crazy. So, 00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000 how did you how do how do you 00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000 draw up on your playing career? 00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:50.000 Now being an announcer. Do you think back 00:18:50.000 –> 00:18:51.000 to your playing days? Like, does that play 00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:53.000 a role in the in the booth? Yeah. 00:18:53.000 –> 00:18:54.000 It does. I I think back to more 00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:57.000 so, like, than referencing my career, which is 00:18:57.000 –> 00:18:58.000 lack luster. Like, I’m actually gonna go back. 00:18:58.000 –> 00:19:00.000 Serious champ, darn right. I’m gonna have you 00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:02.000 say that a few more times as we 00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000 go through this. No. More so I think 00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:05.000 about all, I think about emotions. I think 00:19:05.000 –> 00:19:07.000 about the emotions of what a player is 00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000 going through at a given time because it 00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:11.000 is very easy to sit where we sit, 00:19:11.000 –> 00:19:13.000 you’re high up, and you’re you’re watching on 00:19:13.000 –> 00:19:15.000 a screen, you see the field in front 00:19:15.000 –> 00:19:17.000 of you, game looks easy. Like, it looks 00:19:17.000 –> 00:19:19.000 really easy when you’re watching at home, you’re 00:19:19.000 –> 00:19:22.000 a couple of cold beers. Like, why didn’t 00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:24.000 he hit that ball down the middle that 00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000 I realized I’ve I’ve stood in that batter’s 00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:28.000 box. I’ve been on that amount. I’ve done 00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:30.000 it during the regular season. I’ve done it 00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:31.000 in the post season. I’ve done it in 00:19:31.000 –> 00:19:34.000 the world series. It is a different perspective 00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:36.000 when you’re actually going through it and things 00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:37.000 aren’t that easy. So that’s one of the 00:19:37.000 –> 00:19:39.000 things that I really try to remember 00:19:40.000 –> 00:19:41.000 when I’m in the booth and I’m doing 00:19:41.000 –> 00:19:44.000 games. It’s not that easy. So 00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:48.000 I’m not gonna also lie to somebody when 00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:49.000 you’re watching the game. I’m not gonna spit 00:19:49.000 –> 00:19:51.000 on you and tell you it’s raining. Right. 00:19:51.000 –> 00:19:53.000 When something is bad, it’s bad. But I’ll 00:19:53.000 –> 00:19:55.000 frame it in a way where, hey, nine 00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:57.000 times out of ten, he’s gonna make that 00:19:57.000 –> 00:19:58.000 play. Yeah. Because I believe that. Yeah. You 00:19:58.000 –> 00:20:00.000 know, I I believe that the the good 00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:03.000 things are gonna outweigh the bad things you 00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000 have to mention the bad things. I talked 00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000 about the bad season that the cardinals had. 00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:08.000 Twenty games under five hundred. It’s hard to 00:20:08.000 –> 00:20:10.000 sugar coat that. Right? But also have to 00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:12.000 believe in the fact that you didn’t have 00:20:12.000 –> 00:20:13.000 a losing season, 00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:16.000 since o seven before that. We’re very spoiled. 00:20:16.000 –> 00:20:17.000 Yeah. And you know that good things are 00:20:17.000 –> 00:20:20.000 gonna be on the horizon also, but Yeah. 00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:22.000 I I always go back to being in 00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:24.000 those shoes, what it’s like. And then the 00:20:24.000 –> 00:20:25.000 other thing that I lean on a lot 00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:27.000 is the preparation. I know what the preparation 00:20:27.000 –> 00:20:29.000 was like as a player. I know how 00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:32.000 I would dig in and learn about these 00:20:32.000 –> 00:20:34.000 hitters. Now there’s far more information now than 00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000 there was when I was playing. And maybe 00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:38.000 too much information for some guys. I think 00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:40.000 that’s one of the biggest challenges is how 00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:41.000 to spoon feed some of these players the 00:20:41.000 –> 00:20:44.000 information that they need without giving them the 00:20:44.000 –> 00:20:46.000 quote unquote analytics because Some guys can’t really 00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000 handle the numbers of it but need the 00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:49.000 information. 00:20:49.000 –> 00:20:51.000 But I I think about that. And a 00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:52.000 lot of times maybe you’ll hear me during 00:20:52.000 –> 00:20:53.000 a broadcast 00:20:54.000 –> 00:20:55.000 thinking ahead. Say, hey, 00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000 if if in this spot, I would go 00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000 with this slider down the way right here. 00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:02.000 Well, I’ve scouted him just like the pitcher 00:21:02.000 –> 00:21:04.000 scouted him. I scout the other teams, tendencies, 00:21:04.000 –> 00:21:06.000 and all that stuff. So ahead of time, 00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:08.000 I I feel like I know what direction 00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:10.000 they should be going in. Now that So 00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:12.000 you watch film as, I mean Yeah. Yeah. 00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:15.000 I watch video breakdown, scouting reports, all that 00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:18.000 fun stuff before games. I nerd out with 00:21:18.000 –> 00:21:19.000 it now, Brad. Like, this is what you 00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000 do in your hotel room? I do. I 00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:23.000 guess they’re on the Brad, and I’m 00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:26.000 digging into video and watching, you know, hitters 00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000 against the left. Do you have, like, the 00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:28.000 iPad that same when the players are watching 00:21:28.000 –> 00:21:30.000 the same I don’t get their good proprietary 00:21:31.000 –> 00:21:32.000 information. I have to dig in and find 00:21:32.000 –> 00:21:34.000 my own. I should really call in some 00:21:34.000 –> 00:21:35.000 favors and get good stuff. 00:21:36.000 –> 00:21:39.000 The broadcast. All the search engine stuff. But, 00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:41.000 no, it it really is. It’s fun. And 00:21:41.000 –> 00:21:44.000 it’s it’s like anything else. Say, I I 00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:45.000 dig in and do this thing because I 00:21:45.000 –> 00:21:48.000 wanna inform the viewer. Yep. And I want 00:21:48.000 –> 00:21:51.000 to be right. Like, there’s a pride in 00:21:51.000 –> 00:21:54.000 I’m not just saying stuff to say stuff, 00:21:54.000 –> 00:21:56.000 but there’s also the humbling nature of baseball’s 00:21:56.000 –> 00:21:59.000 ever changing. Yeah. And somebody’s thought process is 00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:01.000 totally different. I might know from my and 00:22:01.000 –> 00:22:03.000 this goes back to trusting yourself. I might 00:22:03.000 –> 00:22:05.000 know from my research that I did in 00:22:05.000 –> 00:22:06.000 my hotel room in Milwaukee, 00:22:07.000 –> 00:22:09.000 sitting there that o two 00:22:09.000 –> 00:22:11.000 slider down in a way. That is the 00:22:11.000 –> 00:22:14.000 best pitch for Gilliland Thompson. He’ll miss it 00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000 by a mile. I don’t know what the 00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000 guy on the mound feels when he grips 00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:19.000 his tighter. Yeah. There are times where a 00:22:19.000 –> 00:22:21.000 pitch in your hand feels amazing. There are 00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:23.000 times where even if you know in your 00:22:23.000 –> 00:22:24.000 head it’s a right pitch, you grip the 00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000 baseball. I said, this Gilliland then you switch 00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000 it to another grip, you say, this is 00:22:27.000 –> 00:22:29.000 the pitch I want. Let’s go with this 00:22:29.000 –> 00:22:31.000 one. So, like, that’s where, like, the human 00:22:31.000 –> 00:22:33.000 element really plays in the game of base 00:22:33.000 –> 00:22:35.000 one. I love that. Well, and and also 00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:37.000 you don’t know what he did last night. 00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:38.000 You don’t know if he got an argument 00:22:38.000 –> 00:22:41.000 with his spouse, you know, three hours before 00:22:41.000 –> 00:22:43.000 the game. Right? There’s so much emotion So 00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:45.000 for you, how much of it playing you’re 00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:47.000 playing days? How much of it was physical 00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:50.000 versus, you know, emotional or psychological I I 00:22:50.000 –> 00:22:52.000 think it’s a good balance. The the physical 00:22:52.000 –> 00:22:54.000 part of it during the season, at least 00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:57.000 for me, was maintenance. That was you maintain 00:22:57.000 –> 00:22:59.000 the arm care. You maintain all of the 00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000 stuff that you worked hard in the winter 00:23:01.000 –> 00:23:02.000 to grow. Like, 00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:05.000 that was the growing part of it. But 00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000 playing a big league season, a hundred and 00:23:07.000 –> 00:23:08.000 sixty two games in a hundred and eighty 00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:10.000 something days, like, it’s a lot. It is 00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:13.000 a rigorous thing. So that’s where the mental 00:23:13.000 –> 00:23:14.000 part it comes in. And I did this 00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000 at mainly as a bullpen guy. I started 00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:18.000 a bit in my career too, but mainly 00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:20.000 as a bullpen guy, everyday players that have 00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000 to answer the bell every day, That’s a 00:23:22.000 –> 00:23:25.000 different animal. You go over four, like, three 00:23:25.000 –> 00:23:27.000 days in a row Yeah. And still being 00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:28.000 able to put in the work, and that’s 00:23:28.000 –> 00:23:30.000 where having a routine, and and Brett, I 00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:31.000 know you’re huge on routine 00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000 and just having something that you could rely 00:23:34.000 –> 00:23:36.000 on day in and day out. To me, 00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:37.000 that’s the biggest thing. You put in the 00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:40.000 work. You do during the season and the 00:23:40.000 –> 00:23:43.000 off season. You do what you know 00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:45.000 has made you successful in the past. And 00:23:45.000 –> 00:23:47.000 even if you don’t get the results, you 00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:48.000 yourself in the mirror at the end of 00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:50.000 the night and say, hey, I did everything 00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:51.000 that I could. I’m gonna do it again 00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:53.000 tomorrow. So being able to answer the bell 00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000 and being able to be consistent in the 00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:57.000 game of ball. That’s the hardest thing. Yeah. 00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000 Like, it stinks to be the guy that 00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:02.000 is standing there on the mound at wrigley 00:24:02.000 –> 00:24:04.000 as they start playing that go cubs go 00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:06.000 song. You know what I walk you off. 00:24:06.000 –> 00:24:08.000 Oh, yeah. That sucks. That’s a bad feeling. 00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:10.000 You gotta be ready the next day. Sort 00:24:10.000 –> 00:24:12.000 of the next yeah. That next opportunity might 00:24:12.000 –> 00:24:15.000 be there in often times. Managers just like 00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:18.000 a any manager in any business will likely 00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:20.000 put you right back into that situation again 00:24:20.000 –> 00:24:22.000 to see how you react to it. Are 00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000 you ready for? And I always wanted to 00:24:24.000 –> 00:24:26.000 be ready. My ID is kicking in. So 00:24:26.000 –> 00:24:28.000 my I’m bouncing between your playing guys in 00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:29.000 your fave too. Okay. Good. 00:24:30.000 –> 00:24:31.000 I made me think you told me a 00:24:31.000 –> 00:24:33.000 story one time. I thought it was hilarious. 00:24:33.000 –> 00:24:34.000 Your Scott Rolling story. I think you probably 00:24:34.000 –> 00:24:36.000 know where I’m going. There’s a lot of 00:24:36.000 –> 00:24:37.000 Scott Rolling stories and you were fortunate enough 00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:38.000 I think to go to the hall of 00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000 fame thing. I didn’t go to Oh, you 00:24:40.000 –> 00:24:42.000 did. I was working, working the games. But 00:24:42.000 –> 00:24:43.000 I know what you’re talking 00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:46.000 about. Yeah. Well, I let’s be honest. I 00:24:46.000 –> 00:24:48.000 helped Scott get Paul of Fame. All those 00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:50.000 rockets that I gave up down the line 00:24:50.000 –> 00:24:52.000 that he made these high life plays on. 00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:54.000 No. It was an absolute honor to Brett 00:24:54.000 –> 00:24:57.000 teammates with Scott rolling. And when I when 00:24:57.000 –> 00:24:58.000 I got called up to the big leagues, 00:24:58.000 –> 00:25:00.000 it was two thousand five. It was a 00:25:00.000 –> 00:25:01.000 little over a month, I think, end of 00:25:01.000 –> 00:25:03.000 the season. And I still remember 00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:05.000 walking in 00:25:05.000 –> 00:25:07.000 Bush Stadium. And it was, you know, bush 00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:10.000 to older stadium. I remember the doors opening 00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:12.000 like it’s a movie scene Albert Poolholz is 00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:16.000 walking this way. Matt Morris, Scott Rolling, Reggie 00:25:16.000 –> 00:25:19.000 Sanders, like, guys just like legends. Yes. 00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:21.000 I mean, it was it was I was 00:25:21.000 –> 00:25:23.000 like a kid. I was like a little 00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:25.000 literally like a kid. Twenty three years old, 00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:28.000 baby face. They they barely let me in 00:25:28.000 –> 00:25:30.000 the stadium. They had get somebody come in. 00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:31.000 Nobody the hell is this? Yeah. Nobody believe 00:25:31.000 –> 00:25:33.000 that I actually played. They laughed at me. 00:25:33.000 –> 00:25:33.000 But, 00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000 the Scott Rolling story is when I did 00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000 make my major league debut, you. It was 00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:41.000 Mother’s Day two thousand five. And I remember 00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000 jogging in from the bullpen. And I think 00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000 I made the mistake of looking around, even 00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:47.000 though they say you should soak up the 00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:49.000 moment. Sometimes maybe should be laser focused. I 00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:50.000 don’t know. But I I did this one. 00:25:50.000 –> 00:25:53.000 I started looking around. Oh my god. I 00:25:53.000 –> 00:25:53.000 mean, 00:25:55.000 –> 00:25:57.000 and surrounding you too. You know, the the 00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000 difference in the stadium, it was Gilliland it 00:25:59.000 –> 00:26:01.000 was all the way around you. And I 00:26:01.000 –> 00:26:03.000 get in, I throw my warm up pitches, 00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:06.000 last pitch I throw to it was yachty. 00:26:07.000 –> 00:26:08.000 Throw yachty. He throws it down. They throw 00:26:08.000 –> 00:26:10.000 it around the horn. Yeah. And your third 00:26:10.000 –> 00:26:12.000 baseman comes creeping in. He’s getting the last 00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:15.000 guy to receive the ball. Third baseman, obviously, 00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:16.000 the hall of famer Scott rolling. 00:26:17.000 –> 00:26:18.000 He has the ball. He’s holding in his 00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000 hand. He looks at me. He looks around 00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:22.000 like I did earlier. 00:26:22.000 –> 00:26:24.000 He’s like, Hey, your parents make it in 00:26:24.000 –> 00:26:26.000 town? I go, no. They’re not here yet, 00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:27.000 mister Rolling. They’re be here next week. I 00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:29.000 think I I think I missed it rolling 00:26:29.000 –> 00:26:31.000 him. He goes, yeah. A lot of people 00:26:31.000 –> 00:26:33.000 here. Well, good luck. And he flicked his 00:26:33.000 –> 00:26:36.000 face off. It was like, okay. Okay, mister 00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:38.000 Rolling. Sorry. It was as awesome. Good luck, 00:26:38.000 –> 00:26:40.000 kid. Yeah. Have fun. Let’s see what you 00:26:40.000 –> 00:26:41.000 do with it was 00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:42.000 it was 00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:45.000 a really fun experience, obviously, to make a 00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000 majorly debut. So memorable with that. And it’s 00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:48.000 also, 00:26:49.000 –> 00:26:50.000 really nice to know you have a safety 00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:52.000 net like that over at third base where 00:26:52.000 –> 00:26:55.000 anything that you hit that way, you never 00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:56.000 had to look at the left side of 00:26:56.000 –> 00:26:58.000 the field. Yeah. Because Hammer, David, Xstein, was 00:26:58.000 –> 00:26:58.000 gonna pick it 00:26:59.000 –> 00:27:00.000 up, and you were gonna be good to 00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:01.000 go. And on the right side, you got 00:27:01.000 –> 00:27:02.000 pool holes at first. Yeah. You were gonna 00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:05.000 be good to go. Second basement was We 00:27:05.000 –> 00:27:07.000 it bounced around that year. Hey. I had, 00:27:07.000 –> 00:27:09.000 I think I had some, what, belly yard 00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000 late no. The belly yard late no six. 00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:13.000 Gritzelonic 00:27:13.000 –> 00:27:15.000 was there in two thousand and five. 00:27:15.000 –> 00:27:17.000 So bouncing around a little bit on that 00:27:17.000 –> 00:27:18.000 side of the infield. What did what did 00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:20.000 it seem though? At Jim Edmonds in center 00:27:20.000 –> 00:27:22.000 field, like, just hit it. Go ahead and 00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:23.000 hit it. Try it. Just go over to 00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:26.000 anybody. Yeah. Don’t walk anybody. You’d be good. 00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:28.000 So how do you prepare for a game 00:27:28.000 –> 00:27:30.000 now? Like, what’s that like for you. Yeah. 00:27:30.000 –> 00:27:31.000 A lot of it is, like, we were 00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:34.000 talking about before is one of my first 00:27:34.000 –> 00:27:36.000 things that I do is I prepare, like, 00:27:36.000 –> 00:27:38.000 I was pitching against the opposing line. So 00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:40.000 I’ll dig in. I’ll I’ll look at the 00:27:40.000 –> 00:27:40.000 tendencies 00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:42.000 and all of that stuff. I’ll look at 00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:43.000 their last couple of weeks of what they’ve 00:27:43.000 –> 00:27:44.000 done and, 00:27:45.000 –> 00:27:47.000 all the heat zones all all that good 00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:49.000 stuff, then you’re obviously looking at your starters 00:27:49.000 –> 00:27:51.000 arsenal for the day. 00:27:51.000 –> 00:27:54.000 But, I’ll dig into Bullpens who’s been who’s 00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000 throwing a lot late who’s likely gonna be 00:27:56.000 –> 00:27:59.000 down, try to manage my way through games 00:27:59.000 –> 00:28:01.000 like a manager would. Turns out I don’t 00:28:01.000 –> 00:28:03.000 make some of the same moves as other 00:28:03.000 –> 00:28:04.000 managers because I’m not I don’t think as 00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:06.000 fast. As some of these guys do. 00:28:07.000 –> 00:28:09.000 But that’s that’s part of the preparation. Just 00:28:09.000 –> 00:28:12.000 watching. And it’s it’s a lot easier 00:28:12.000 –> 00:28:14.000 doing the games the more you do. So 00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:16.000 the the reps that I got this past 00:28:16.000 –> 00:28:19.000 year, it was it was easier to do 00:28:19.000 –> 00:28:21.000 the job because you’re around these guys every 00:28:21.000 –> 00:28:23.000 day. You’re watching them every day. When you’re 00:28:23.000 –> 00:28:24.000 in and out, it makes it a little 00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:25.000 bit more difficult. You feel like not that 00:28:25.000 –> 00:28:27.000 you’re not watching at home, but it’s different. 00:28:27.000 –> 00:28:28.000 When you get your family running around, you’re 00:28:28.000 –> 00:28:31.000 cooking dinner, and like everybody watching games, you 00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:34.000 miss certain parts of it, but the repetition 00:28:34.000 –> 00:28:36.000 part of it just makes it big. And 00:28:36.000 –> 00:28:38.000 and that’s one of the other things. I’m 00:28:38.000 –> 00:28:40.000 around, I wanna be around the players. They’re 00:28:40.000 –> 00:28:42.000 the story. Like, what you’re it’s not about 00:28:42.000 –> 00:28:43.000 me. It’s not about what I did. It’s 00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:46.000 not about chipping eyes banter and forth, it’s 00:28:46.000 –> 00:28:47.000 about what are these guys doing? What are 00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:49.000 they going through? What are they working on? 00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000 And that is a lot of the preparation 00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:53.000 is in being around these guys and getting 00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:55.000 that information. And I think too, that prep 00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000 shows. And, obviously, you love what you do. 00:28:57.000 –> 00:28:59.000 And I think I know about you the 00:28:59.000 –> 00:29:00.000 same thing. You take lots of notes, you 00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:01.000 prepare. 00:29:01.000 –> 00:29:03.000 That’s important. And that comes across in the 00:29:03.000 –> 00:29:05.000 microphone. Too. Right? But I I talked to 00:29:05.000 –> 00:29:07.000 Chip Carey. He was on the podcast, not 00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:09.000 to keep name dropping podcast guest, but, he 00:29:09.000 –> 00:29:10.000 said you were one of the biggest 00:29:11.000 –> 00:29:13.000 helper. Like, biggest helps for him to embrace 00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000 being in the Saint Louis cardinals. Right? You 00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:16.000 got a new guy. You’re replacing a guy 00:29:16.000 –> 00:29:18.000 that’s twenty four years everybody loved. 00:29:19.000 –> 00:29:20.000 That was tough, but he said that about 00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000 you. So what was that relationship like for 00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:24.000 you and Chip? And then I came into 00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:25.000 the booth with you, at spring training this 00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:28.000 year. It would have been nice to know 00:29:28.000 –> 00:29:30.000 that he’s, like, six six. Oh, he’s enormous. 00:29:30.000 –> 00:29:32.000 I had no idea. He stood up. I’m, 00:29:32.000 –> 00:29:33.000 like, oh, I feel like I’m hanging out 00:29:33.000 –> 00:29:35.000 with Fredberg. Yes, dude. Yeah. Except her. Chip 00:29:35.000 –> 00:29:36.000 talks a lot more. Exactly. 00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:39.000 So what’s that like for you, you guys’ 00:29:39.000 –> 00:29:40.000 relationship? Yeah. 00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000 It it was really amazing how quickly 00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:46.000 things click. Like, between him and I, and 00:29:46.000 –> 00:29:48.000 I, hopefully, that’s something that really comes out 00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:49.000 on air, 00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000 really close, really fast. Now had the good 00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:52.000 opportunity 00:29:53.000 –> 00:29:55.000 to meet Chip over the years last couple 00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000 of times. Okay. 00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:58.000 And you know how close I am with 00:29:58.000 –> 00:30:00.000 with Danny Mack, love him to death. And 00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:02.000 Dan was one of my biggest advocates 00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:05.000 of doing more games and helping me and 00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:05.000 really 00:30:06.000 –> 00:30:08.000 really mentored me through through a lot of 00:30:08.000 –> 00:30:09.000 things. And I know that there are gonna 00:30:09.000 –> 00:30:10.000 be a lot of big things come for 00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000 Danny Mac as well, but they made the 00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000 change, and I don’t think that you could 00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:16.000 have picked anybody better than than Chip Carey. 00:30:16.000 –> 00:30:17.000 If you were gonna make that change, 00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:18.000 the personality 00:30:19.000 –> 00:30:22.000 is fantastic, his energy, his love of life. 00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:24.000 And, like, that’s easy to feed off of. 00:30:24.000 –> 00:30:25.000 Right. So when you have, 00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:27.000 couple of guys that have that sort of 00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:30.000 energy. I don’t care if you’re down ten, 00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:31.000 nothing in the first inning. 00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:34.000 You’re a fan. Do you wanna listen to 00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:36.000 a couple of guys just beating a dead 00:30:36.000 –> 00:30:38.000 horse early on and negative and down in 00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000 the dumps? No. Like, at least I don’t. 00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000 I and maybe some some fans do. And 00:30:42.000 –> 00:30:44.000 I do get that I get the pushback 00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:46.000 of you’re too positive. You don’t say anything 00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:49.000 Brad, like, maybe maybe to a certain extent. 00:30:51.000 –> 00:30:53.000 But I’d rather just be happy too instead 00:30:53.000 –> 00:30:55.000 of and again, I’ll talk about the bad 00:30:55.000 –> 00:30:58.000 things that are there. I’ll spin them positive 00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000 somehow or another because I want this to 00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000 be entertaining. I don’t want you to tune 00:31:02.000 –> 00:31:04.000 into a ball game. It’s down. You’re down 00:31:04.000 –> 00:31:06.000 five runs and you just go wanna watch 00:31:06.000 –> 00:31:08.000 jeopardy. Don’t forget that. Yeah. Stay here. Yeah. 00:31:08.000 –> 00:31:10.000 We’ll have some fun. These guys are gonna 00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:12.000 put on a show for you and let’s 00:31:12.000 –> 00:31:14.000 entertain like at the end of the day, 00:31:14.000 –> 00:31:17.000 it’s still an entertainment business. Like I mentioned, 00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:20.000 the players, the coach, that’s your product. That’s 00:31:20.000 –> 00:31:22.000 what we’re watching and that’s what we’re propping 00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:23.000 up. But our job in between all of 00:31:23.000 –> 00:31:26.000 that is keep you engaged. Keep you loving 00:31:26.000 –> 00:31:29.000 the game. Keep you love the cardinals wanting 00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:31.000 to come back, and I wanna build that 00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:34.000 relationship. One of the biggest, like, compliments that 00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:36.000 I can get is when I meet people, 00:31:36.000 –> 00:31:39.000 said, man, I I love listening to you 00:31:39.000 –> 00:31:40.000 guys. I would just love to have a 00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:42.000 beer with you. Like, I wanna build that 00:31:42.000 –> 00:31:44.000 relationship where I’m, like, part of your 00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000 your evening. Well, you’re in everybody’s house. Every 00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:48.000 night is creepy. You hit really creepy. When 00:31:48.000 –> 00:31:50.000 I when I talk to kids, I say, 00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000 Hey, I’m the voice that puts you to 00:31:51.000 –> 00:31:53.000 bed Yeah. Like That’s not real. I mean, 00:31:53.000 –> 00:31:55.000 that’s what Mike Shannon was. Right? It’s it’s 00:31:58.000 –> 00:31:59.000 it’s fun to be part of such a 00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:01.000 a legacy line that. And so that we 00:32:01.000 –> 00:32:03.000 have so many great people that work around 00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000 it. You look at the the radio side 00:32:05.000 –> 00:32:08.000 of of things with John rooney and Ricky 00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:10.000 Horton and Mike Clay warrant. They do such 00:32:10.000 –> 00:32:12.000 a fantastic job. 00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:14.000 Ship is great to work with. Jim Edmonds 00:32:15.000 –> 00:32:16.000 is every time I listen to Jim, I 00:32:16.000 –> 00:32:18.000 learn something about baseball. He’s just got an 00:32:18.000 –> 00:32:19.000 incredible 00:32:19.000 –> 00:32:22.000 baseball mind. The entire crew that works over 00:32:22.000 –> 00:32:25.000 there is is is great. Alraboski has helped 00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:26.000 me out a ton. I’ve got that’s one 00:32:26.000 –> 00:32:29.000 of the biggest things that I’ve been so 00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:32.000 pleased with and just honestly really impressed by 00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:34.000 is how that whole group is in erased 00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:37.000 me. New guy coming in. 00:32:37.000 –> 00:32:39.000 It’s a competitive industry. There’s only so many 00:32:39.000 –> 00:32:41.000 of these jobs. Right? There’s only so many 00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:43.000 reps that are out there. And 00:32:43.000 –> 00:32:45.000 you know, specifically talk about analyst 00:32:45.000 –> 00:32:48.000 guys, Rick Horton and Alraboski have, like, been 00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:51.000 my biggest helpers ever. Yeah. Like, I have 00:32:51.000 –> 00:32:53.000 a question about something, I can call them 00:32:53.000 –> 00:32:55.000 up. They they help me out. Give me 00:32:55.000 –> 00:32:57.000 advice. It’s been Which, how cool is that 00:32:57.000 –> 00:33:00.000 to think about their character I mean, that 00:33:00.000 –> 00:33:02.000 you’re taking games or reps as you say 00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:04.000 away from them. Right? And it’s like, here 00:33:04.000 –> 00:33:05.000 they are still helping you. Do you think 00:33:05.000 –> 00:33:07.000 that’s go ahead. No. I was gonna say, 00:33:07.000 –> 00:33:10.000 I that’s but that’s baseball. Yeah. Like, that 00:33:10.000 –> 00:33:12.000 is that is the mindset or at least 00:33:12.000 –> 00:33:14.000 the mindset of the great ones is 00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:17.000 I am gonna I’m trying to pass this 00:33:17.000 –> 00:33:19.000 along. Trying to pass this along. Yes. I 00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:20.000 wanna do this as long as I can. 00:33:20.000 –> 00:33:22.000 Talking about Friday baseball level. I wanna do 00:33:22.000 –> 00:33:24.000 it at the highest level, and I’m trying 00:33:24.000 –> 00:33:25.000 to to keep my ab ads, keep my 00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:28.000 innings, but I also know that someone helped 00:33:28.000 –> 00:33:30.000 me get here. Yeah. And I wanna help 00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000 this guy get to that spot. And that 00:33:32.000 –> 00:33:33.000 guy is gonna help the next guy. And 00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:35.000 that’s something we’ve been so blessed with in 00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:36.000 the cardinal organization 00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:39.000 is they’ve passed these things down, and you’ve 00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:41.000 passed down what it means to be a 00:33:41.000 –> 00:33:43.000 cardinal, and and what it means to put 00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:45.000 on that jersey, Those things don’t happen if 00:33:45.000 –> 00:33:47.000 you don’t have players helping each other. And 00:33:47.000 –> 00:33:49.000 that’s actually what I was gonna go with. 00:33:49.000 –> 00:33:50.000 Wearing the birds in the bat as a 00:33:50.000 –> 00:33:53.000 player. Now wearing, quote unquote, wearing the birds 00:33:53.000 –> 00:33:54.000 in the bat as an announcer. You can 00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:55.000 work for You can work for a suit. 00:33:55.000 –> 00:33:57.000 That’d be a nice suit. Nice shirt. Yeah. 00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:59.000 We’ll see if there’s dust that made. Somebody 00:33:59.000 –> 00:34:00.000 will be less a custom suit guy. Get 00:34:00.000 –> 00:34:03.000 Brad a suit with custom bats on it. 00:34:04.000 –> 00:34:05.000 What was I saying? The card organization. So, 00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000 obviously, you you don’t know they work for 00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000 the cardinals. I think that’s okay to say 00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:10.000 that. Right? Yeah. You work for the ballies. 00:34:10.000 –> 00:34:12.000 Yeah. You’re employee of ballies. Yeah. But, yeah, 00:34:12.000 –> 00:34:14.000 how much does the cardinal organization 00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:15.000 run 00:34:15.000 –> 00:34:16.000 through 00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:16.000 valleys 00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:18.000 deep into you guys and all that stuff. 00:34:18.000 –> 00:34:19.000 Yeah. I think it’s a partnership. 00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:20.000 Obviously, 00:34:21.000 –> 00:34:22.000 and I I don’t even know what the 00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:24.000 logistics of are, but I believe that the, 00:34:24.000 –> 00:34:26.000 you know, Carlos are are in on ownership 00:34:26.000 –> 00:34:29.000 of that too. Like, they they bought into 00:34:29.000 –> 00:34:29.000 that. 00:34:30.000 –> 00:34:32.000 But I I feel like they’re they work 00:34:32.000 –> 00:34:34.000 together. Like, that’s kinda how the crew is. 00:34:34.000 –> 00:34:36.000 I know that the cardinals have a say 00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:38.000 of who is on their airwaves and who’s 00:34:38.000 –> 00:34:39.000 talking about their game 00:34:40.000 –> 00:34:40.000 and, 00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:43.000 I’m I’m so happy that I’ve been able 00:34:43.000 –> 00:34:45.000 to carve out a niche and and have 00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:47.000 the relationships that I have 00:34:47.000 –> 00:34:49.000 with, you know, with people within the organization 00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000 not, like, just like I did as a 00:34:51.000 –> 00:34:53.000 player. Every time that I’m doing a game 00:34:53.000 –> 00:34:54.000 now as a broadcaster, 00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:56.000 I’m trying to keep my job. Like, I’m 00:34:56.000 –> 00:34:58.000 trying I’m trying to get Like, I wanna 00:34:58.000 –> 00:35:00.000 get better every day, and I I want 00:35:00.000 –> 00:35:03.000 to learn more and more. And I also 00:35:03.000 –> 00:35:05.000 realize something’s always coming for this job. Right? 00:35:05.000 –> 00:35:07.000 So I wanna put my best foot forward 00:35:07.000 –> 00:35:10.000 every single day and just continue to try 00:35:10.000 –> 00:35:12.000 to stay in everybody’s good graces and 00:35:12.000 –> 00:35:14.000 and do his of a job as I 00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000 can. What’s been the most memorable, 00:35:17.000 –> 00:35:19.000 baseball moment for you as an announcer? 00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:21.000 Man, that’s hard. There there have been so 00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000 many good ones, especially in the last couple 00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:24.000 years. I mean, you you had 00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:26.000 being able to be on the call two 00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000 years ago 00:35:28.000 –> 00:35:30.000 as we knew the future 00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:31.000 of Yadi 00:35:32.000 –> 00:35:34.000 and Albert, you knew that they were gonna 00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000 retire. Didn’t know at the time, the future 00:35:36.000 –> 00:35:38.000 of Adam Wayne. Right? But those three walking 00:35:38.000 –> 00:35:39.000 off the mound together. 00:35:40.000 –> 00:35:43.000 I mean, it’s just an unreal site, a 00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:46.000 picture that you’ll see forever in cardinal history. 00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:48.000 That is a a big one. 00:35:48.000 –> 00:35:50.000 Albert Puhl’s hitting number 00:35:51.000 –> 00:35:51.000 07:03, 00:35:51.000 –> 00:35:54.000 like the final one Yeah. Was a big 00:35:54.000 –> 00:35:56.000 one too in Pittsburgh. Now I would say 00:35:56.000 –> 00:35:58.000 six ninety nine and seven hundred. Mhmm. But, 00:35:58.000 –> 00:36:00.000 you know, I literally thought about you that 00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000 night. We were in my basement. We had 00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000 people over on Apple TV and my god 00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000 sucks. Really Albert, both of them. Couldn’t take 00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:07.000 the side off. 00:36:08.000 –> 00:36:10.000 That hurt. So that’s that’s one. And maybe 00:36:10.000 –> 00:36:12.000 I’ll change this story. It’s like one of 00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000 those fishing stories, you know. Like, I was 00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000 there. Yes. Because I was in LA. We 00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:18.000 were just saying because you did it the 00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:19.000 night before. The night before, did it the 00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:22.000 night after, Brett. But, yeah, I was watching 00:36:22.000 –> 00:36:25.000 that one on my iPad in my hotel 00:36:25.000 –> 00:36:26.000 room. And they asked me to say, hey, 00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:28.000 you do you wanna take it for the 00:36:28.000 –> 00:36:29.000 game? I said, no. I’m I’m going to 00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:30.000 games every day. I don’t need to take 00:36:30.000 –> 00:36:32.000 it for game? What’s he gonna end it? 00:36:32.000 –> 00:36:34.000 It possibly happened tonight. In a couple years 00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:35.000 though, that story will be like, yeah, and 00:36:35.000 –> 00:36:37.000 he hit the home run. And then do 00:36:37.000 –> 00:36:38.000 you remember him going back and giving the 00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:40.000 high five that was me? I was there. 00:36:40.000 –> 00:36:42.000 It wasn’t Beltrey. It was right. Right. 00:36:42.000 –> 00:36:45.000 That was funny. Speaking to Beltran, you said 00:36:45.000 –> 00:36:46.000 Beltrey, I think you said. Yeah. I think 00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:49.000 you said. Beltran. Yeah. Beltran. What was that? 00:36:49.000 –> 00:36:51.000 Moment like I mean, he was a cardinal 00:36:51.000 –> 00:36:54.000 killer. Right. Oh, yeah. And two thousand six, 00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:55.000 NLCS, 00:36:55.000 –> 00:36:57.000 two men on. I think cardinals rep, what, 00:36:57.000 –> 00:36:58.000 three to one 00:36:58.000 –> 00:37:00.000 bottom of the ninth, tight. 00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000 I mean, I remember, like, his yesterday watching 00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000 that game. What was that like, obviously, being 00:37:04.000 –> 00:37:06.000 there and having a uniform on? The, 00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:10.000 the NLCS and specifically that game seven is 00:37:10.000 –> 00:37:11.000 far more memorable 00:37:12.000 –> 00:37:13.000 than the world series to me. And I 00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:15.000 think that for anybody that was in it, 00:37:16.000 –> 00:37:18.000 and doing it. Like, that was you go 00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000 to a game seven. You have so many 00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:22.000 ups and downs throughout it. You still remember 00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:25.000 the Andy Chavez robbed home run of Scott 00:37:25.000 –> 00:37:28.000 Gilliland we’re, like, where did that come from? 00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:30.000 Like, Tyler Johnson left handed reliever and myself 00:37:30.000 –> 00:37:32.000 were right behind Like, you see you see 00:37:32.000 –> 00:37:34.000 Shaba’s arm? We’re right behind that wall on 00:37:34.000 –> 00:37:36.000 the bowl family. No. No. I was gonna 00:37:36.000 –> 00:37:38.000 catch that. Yes. Yes. 00:37:39.000 –> 00:37:42.000 But that, that place was so loud. Shea 00:37:42.000 –> 00:37:43.000 was loud. Have have you ever been to 00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000 Shea State, anyway? Had you been there? No. 00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:48.000 So it was crazy loud. Old school speakers 00:37:48.000 –> 00:37:50.000 in center field, Apple would pop up. I’m 00:37:50.000 –> 00:37:52.000 telling you the place would sway. Like, you 00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:54.000 could see it sway. It was just an 00:37:54.000 –> 00:37:55.000 energy there was New York. Like, it was 00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:56.000 New York, passionate. 00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:59.000 Sports fans in the biggest Thompson. 00:38:00.000 –> 00:38:02.000 And then Adam Wayne Wright, the rookie 00:38:02.000 –> 00:38:04.000 comes in and does that. And I know 00:38:04.000 –> 00:38:06.000 you’ve heard Adam talk about him and yachty 00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:08.000 going through that. He starts him out with 00:38:08.000 –> 00:38:09.000 a change up, which is a pitch that 00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:12.000 he never throws. Like, it just it just 00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000 had the body’s like, hey, this is the 00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:17.000 is the pitch. Do it. And then set 00:38:17.000 –> 00:38:19.000 everything else up. Let’s change this whole career 00:38:19.000 –> 00:38:20.000 probably. Right? I mean, you think one, the 00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:23.000 confidence, but number two, the the confidence to 00:38:23.000 –> 00:38:24.000 listen to a guy 00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000 tells me in this moment to throw a 00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:28.000 pitch. It’s not my best pitch that I’m 00:38:28.000 –> 00:38:30.000 not the best at. Right? Yeah. Throw it. 00:38:30.000 –> 00:38:32.000 Trust it. He did it in then, holy 00:38:32.000 –> 00:38:35.000 crap. Yeah. Well, that’s and and remember too, 00:38:35.000 –> 00:38:37.000 that was, I mean, what, two years into 00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:40.000 Yati’s career. Wasn’t like he was six. He 00:38:40.000 –> 00:38:41.000 came up in o he wasn’t the cagey 00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000 vet. Yeah. O four. O fours is for 00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:45.000 sure. Yeah. Well, he wasn’t like the cagey 00:38:45.000 –> 00:38:48.000 veteran at the time. But you already knew 00:38:48.000 –> 00:38:50.000 you knew what he was and you knew 00:38:50.000 –> 00:38:53.000 the preparation that was there. And Adam had 00:38:53.000 –> 00:38:54.000 that trust in him and also had the 00:38:54.000 –> 00:38:57.000 trust in his ability. If that’s what you 00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:59.000 believe is gonna be right, let’s do it. 00:38:59.000 –> 00:39:00.000 And I’m sure that if he felt it 00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:02.000 in his hand and he was like, this 00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:03.000 isn’t it, he wouldn’t Yeah. You know, but 00:39:03.000 –> 00:39:05.000 he he trusted in in yachty. He made 00:39:05.000 –> 00:39:07.000 the pitch, then obviously made the pitch with 00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000 the biggest breaking ball of his career. Michael 00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:12.000 Charlie was probably sure was. But I I 00:39:12.000 –> 00:39:14.000 think you bring up a great point. Like, 00:39:14.000 –> 00:39:15.000 what if what if that went a different 00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000 direction? Right? What what if it 00:39:17.000 –> 00:39:19.000 Beltran hit it out of the ballpark? Now 00:39:19.000 –> 00:39:22.000 I still believe that Adam Wayne, right, a 00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:24.000 man of conviction, a man of the he 00:39:24.000 –> 00:39:26.000 he’s not gonna he’s been knocked down plenty 00:39:26.000 –> 00:39:27.000 in his career. I still believe that he 00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:30.000 would have carved himself out quite a career. 00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:32.000 But what a way to start it? Or 00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:35.000 you you do that, and then you transition 00:39:35.000 –> 00:39:37.000 into starting cardinal hall You’ll transit one. You 00:39:37.000 –> 00:39:39.000 weren’t even to close busy was to close. 00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:40.000 Yes. Right. Well, he was, and then is 00:39:40.000 –> 00:39:41.000 he got hurt and then he had to 00:39:41.000 –> 00:39:43.000 say over. Yeah. So he had to learn 00:39:43.000 –> 00:39:44.000 that on the fly. And again, you wanna 00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:46.000 talk about mentorship You wanna talk about a 00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:48.000 guy that was going through probably one of 00:39:48.000 –> 00:39:50.000 the lower times, injured, 00:39:51.000 –> 00:39:53.000 hip, everything was was banged up for for 00:39:53.000 –> 00:39:55.000 Jason Iseringhousen who is, he, one of my 00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:56.000 biggest mentors 00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000 as a player and one of the best 00:39:58.000 –> 00:40:02.000 people I’ve been around, but he he helps 00:40:02.000 –> 00:40:04.000 mentor Adam Wayne, right, through that? What it’s 00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:06.000 like at the back end of games? What 00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000 to expect? The highs, the lows? Like, all 00:40:08.000 –> 00:40:11.000 of that. That’s a hard thing to learn. 00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:14.000 When you are you’re like a middle relief 00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000 guy, you have a safety net. Your team 00:40:16.000 –> 00:40:18.000 could come back and, you know, you gave 00:40:18.000 –> 00:40:19.000 up three, but who cares? You guys are 00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:21.000 like, well, we won. Like, do that as 00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:22.000 a closer, 00:40:22.000 –> 00:40:25.000 you lose. Yeah. And then you’re you’re the 00:40:25.000 –> 00:40:27.000 goat and not the good one. Yeah. And 00:40:27.000 –> 00:40:28.000 then you gotta come back the next day 00:40:28.000 –> 00:40:30.000 and you have to have the right mindset. 00:40:30.000 –> 00:40:31.000 I think that was a learned mindset. It’s 00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:34.000 all So Adam Wainwright just has that something 00:40:34.000 –> 00:40:36.000 special. He’s just just get the x built 00:40:36.000 –> 00:40:37.000 that way. Of course. 00:40:37.000 –> 00:40:40.000 But having that mentor early, I think helped 00:40:40.000 –> 00:40:42.000 him as well. Yeah. So talk about the 00:40:42.000 –> 00:40:43.000 adrenaline of that. You know, I’m one of 00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:45.000 these guys that I watch sports, and man, 00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000 I feel the moment. Like, you know, I 00:40:47.000 –> 00:40:50.000 just would dream about walking into that stadium 00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:52.000 or walking out of that cord or making 00:40:52.000 –> 00:40:53.000 that putt. Whatever it is, 00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:56.000 I feel the adrenaline at a much different 00:40:56.000 –> 00:40:58.000 level, obviously. But you can feel it. So 00:40:58.000 –> 00:41:00.000 for you, having the adrenaline, man, you know, 00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:02.000 phone rings, they call it up. Brad, you’re 00:41:02.000 –> 00:41:04.000 coming in. Game’s online. Right? You’re coming in. 00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:06.000 You’re walking out of that fence. You gotta 00:41:06.000 –> 00:41:08.000 run to the bull or run to the 00:41:08.000 –> 00:41:11.000 pitcher’s mound. Like, that adrenaline explained that adrenaline 00:41:11.000 –> 00:41:13.000 Gilliland how hard was that to know that 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000 you I mean, you’ll probably never feel that 00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:19.000 adrenaline again. Yeah. Look, aside from the camaraderie. 00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000 And thankfully, in the job that I have, 00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:24.000 I get that. I still get that around 00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:26.000 the ballpark, hanging out with the guys, like, 00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:29.000 are the broadcast crews, our own team. We 00:41:29.000 –> 00:41:31.000 all hang out, everybody on the road, go 00:41:31.000 –> 00:41:32.000 out. And so it’s so I get the 00:41:32.000 –> 00:41:34.000 camaraderie part of it still. 00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:36.000 The adrenaline aspect, 00:41:36.000 –> 00:41:38.000 I have not been able to find that 00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:39.000 in life. Like, I don’t know what that 00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:42.000 is. And I you brought up the perfect 00:41:42.000 –> 00:41:43.000 example of the phone ring. 00:41:44.000 –> 00:41:47.000 Like, pavlov’s dog. It’s like, is it me? 00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:48.000 Is it me? Is it me? And then 00:41:48.000 –> 00:41:51.000 it’s you. It’s like, boom, get up, start 00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:54.000 throwing. It’s such a it’s such an amazing 00:41:54.000 –> 00:41:57.000 feeling. It’s such an exciting feeling, and everything 00:41:57.000 –> 00:41:59.000 just starts beating a little faster. Right? But 00:41:59.000 –> 00:42:02.000 it’s it’s still controlled. Yep. But it is 00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:04.000 energetic. It’s exciting. 00:42:04.000 –> 00:42:06.000 And I like there are things in my 00:42:06.000 –> 00:42:08.000 life that excited about. There are plenty of 00:42:08.000 –> 00:42:10.000 things in my life that I’m passionate about. 00:42:10.000 –> 00:42:11.000 There are not too many things that I 00:42:11.000 –> 00:42:13.000 have found. And maybe that’s your next big 00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:15.000 idea, Brett. You find that find that adrenaline 00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:15.000 factor. 00:42:16.000 –> 00:42:18.000 Get that going, but I do miss that. 00:42:18.000 –> 00:42:21.000 I I miss that that energy of going 00:42:21.000 –> 00:42:24.000 in. And then that feeling, and and honestly 00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:27.000 even even the bad day, Right? It’s it’s 00:42:27.000 –> 00:42:28.000 a different feeling. Like, you went out there 00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:31.000 and you gave everything that you had in 00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:32.000 what we all know is a game. Right? 00:42:32.000 –> 00:42:34.000 There are bigger things that are going on 00:42:34.000 –> 00:42:36.000 in the world. But in your world right 00:42:36.000 –> 00:42:38.000 there, just like anybody that is going to 00:42:38.000 –> 00:42:39.000 their job, that’s your world. That’s a big 00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:41.000 deal. Others might not look at it as 00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:42.000 a big deal, but to you is and 00:42:42.000 –> 00:42:45.000 it should be when you put everything out 00:42:45.000 –> 00:42:46.000 there on the line and you just let 00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:48.000 the chips fall where they make, like, that’s 00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:50.000 a freeing feeling Yeah. When you have that. 00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:51.000 That’s it’s it’s incredible. 00:42:53.000 –> 00:42:54.000 Let’s see what I’m trying to think the 00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000 next question I wanted to ask here. So 00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:57.000 so how did you, 00:42:58.000 –> 00:42:59.000 when you talked about the camaraderie, 00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:01.000 how do you how do you stay a 00:43:01.000 –> 00:43:03.000 student in the game with what you’re doing 00:43:03.000 –> 00:43:04.000 now? And you’ve kinda touched on that, I 00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:06.000 guess. Yeah. Yes. Continue watching stuff. Yeah. You 00:43:06.000 –> 00:43:08.000 have to you have to keep watching, and 00:43:08.000 –> 00:43:11.000 you to be willing to change too. Yeah. 00:43:11.000 –> 00:43:12.000 You know, I mentioned earlier some of the 00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.000 the data and the analytics, and I’m sure 00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:17.000 that a lot of baseball fans, and especially 00:43:17.000 –> 00:43:19.000 in St. Louis, you you’ve got an old 00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:21.000 school baseball fan. Right. You have got, you 00:43:21.000 –> 00:43:22.000 know, Bob Gibson, 00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:26.000 Lou Brock, Ozzie, Smith. Like, yes, legends. And, 00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:28.000 like, that’s the style of baseball that you 00:43:28.000 –> 00:43:31.000 like is throwback in old school. Things have 00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:34.000 changed. Okay? It’s It’s three true outcomes. It’s 00:43:34.000 –> 00:43:37.000 home run, strikeouts, and walks. It’s missing bats 00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:39.000 as a pitcher. It is velocity. 00:43:39.000 –> 00:43:42.000 It’s spin rates. It’s exit velocity. City. It’s 00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:45.000 all of these different things. And I can’t 00:43:45.000 –> 00:43:48.000 be again, talk about a job is to 00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:50.000 grow the game. Mhmm. I can’t sit there 00:43:50.000 –> 00:43:52.000 and be like, that doesn’t anything. That doesn’t 00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:53.000 matter. It does matter. Like, and it does 00:43:53.000 –> 00:43:56.000 mean something. These evaluators are evaluating off of 00:43:56.000 –> 00:43:59.000 some of these things. Scouts are scouting off 00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:01.000 of some of these things. Guys are getting 00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:03.000 paid off of a lot of these different 00:44:03.000 –> 00:44:04.000 power numbers that are out there. It means 00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:07.000 something to a lot of these different So 00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:08.000 one of my biggest things that I try 00:44:08.000 –> 00:44:09.000 to do is, 00:44:10.000 –> 00:44:11.000 even if it’s something I’ll read on the 00:44:11.000 –> 00:44:13.000 surface first or or see a new stat 00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:16.000 come out, like, that seems stupid. Let me 00:44:16.000 –> 00:44:18.000 dig into it at least. Like, let me 00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000 let me open my exactly. Let me continue 00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:22.000 to learn about this. Or let me figure 00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:25.000 out a way where I can feed it 00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000 to a viewer or somebody just passing by 00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:28.000 and say, hey, you know, what does this 00:44:28.000 –> 00:44:31.000 mean? Say, let me make it make sense 00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:32.000 to them and make it matter to them. 00:44:32.000 –> 00:44:35.000 Yeah. Where it matters to people in, like, 00:44:35.000 –> 00:44:36.000 the analytics community. But, 00:44:37.000 –> 00:44:38.000 I try to keep up as much as 00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:40.000 I can with all of the other teams 00:44:40.000 –> 00:44:42.000 in baseball. I get home. I’m watching MLB 00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000 network, like every other baseball fan, because a 00:44:44.000 –> 00:44:47.000 lot like playing. And he’s, like, turn that 00:44:47.000 –> 00:44:48.000 crap off. Oh, yeah. For sure. I’m I 00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:49.000 have to go in the basement. I go 00:44:49.000 –> 00:44:50.000 home. I go the basement. 00:44:51.000 –> 00:44:53.000 But a lot like playing, I can’t just 00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:54.000 go home after a game. I don’t care 00:44:54.000 –> 00:44:56.000 how long the game was. I can’t just 00:44:56.000 –> 00:44:58.000 go to sleep. There has to be that 00:44:58.000 –> 00:44:58.000 unwinding 00:44:58.000 –> 00:45:01.000 period because that’s as close as I get 00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:02.000 to the adrenaline now that we were just 00:45:02.000 –> 00:45:05.000 talking about that in my ear, right, in 00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:07.000 the headset, three, two, one, 00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:10.000 live. And, like, boom. Okay. Here we go. 00:45:10.000 –> 00:45:12.000 Like, this is real. Brad don’t say any 00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:12.000 bad words. 00:45:14.000 –> 00:45:15.000 This is the same about a bad tension. 00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:17.000 Yes. That’s I don’t wanna get used to 00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000 it here though. Right. Exactly. And then and 00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:21.000 then do it, do it a little bit. 00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000 Well, Brett said. Yeah. 00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:26.000 Talk about the pitch clock. Did that change 00:45:26.000 –> 00:45:28.000 the game this year? It did. It it 00:45:28.000 –> 00:45:30.000 it did and 00:45:30.000 –> 00:45:33.000 being an old school base. Spall person. I 00:45:33.000 –> 00:45:35.000 hated the idea. Yeah. Hate the concept of 00:45:35.000 –> 00:45:38.000 it. I liked being able to be that 00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:40.000 high horse guy, Brett, where it’s like, well, 00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:42.000 we’re the only game that doesn’t have o’clock. 00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:44.000 Oh, yeah. Yeah. We’re not. Now we’re not. 00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:45.000 But 00:45:45.000 –> 00:45:46.000 from 00:45:46.000 –> 00:45:48.000 and this isn’t just a broadcaster 00:45:48.000 –> 00:45:50.000 standpoint. Look, I get a half hour backup 00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:52.000 night. It seems like. True. 00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000 So that part of it is nice, but 00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:56.000 I really do believe the game wasn’t meant 00:45:56.000 –> 00:45:59.000 to take three hours every Right. We we’ve 00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000 slowed things down, and a lot of it 00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:03.000 has been the information slows it down. Like, 00:46:03.000 –> 00:46:06.000 a lot of that takes time and the 00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:06.000 evolution 00:46:07.000 –> 00:46:09.000 of the utilization of bowl pens where it’s 00:46:09.000 –> 00:46:12.000 match ups in the six, seven, eight, nine. 00:46:12.000 –> 00:46:15.000 We’ll do it again. Exactly. And, obviously, that 00:46:15.000 –> 00:46:16.000 rule changed too at least with the three 00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:18.000 better minimum a couple of years ago. So 00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:20.000 that sped things up. But I really don’t. 00:46:20.000 –> 00:46:22.000 There’s no reason 00:46:22.000 –> 00:46:25.000 to be out there and hold the ball 00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:27.000 for thirty seconds. Yeah. Like, there’s not. Now 00:46:27.000 –> 00:46:30.000 I don’t like the limited takeoffs. I don’t 00:46:30.000 –> 00:46:31.000 I don’t enjoy that. I think that you 00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:33.000 should be able to do that ten times 00:46:33.000 –> 00:46:34.000 in a row if you want to. I 00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:36.000 also believe that the pitcher should be granted 00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:38.000 a time out just like they or his 00:46:38.000 –> 00:46:40.000 grand time out. I feel like that should 00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:41.000 be a thing. Great point. It just doesn’t 00:46:41.000 –> 00:46:44.000 make sense. Right? She writes that in being, 00:46:44.000 –> 00:46:45.000 I I put it in Rob Manford’s, 00:46:46.000 –> 00:46:48.000 little his box out there, the suggestion box. 00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000 We’ll see we’ll see how it goes. I 00:46:50.000 –> 00:46:51.000 think a lot of pitchers have been beating 00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000 that drum, but that I think that’s something 00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:54.000 that might end up happening. 00:46:54.000 –> 00:46:56.000 At some point, but I do think that 00:46:56.000 –> 00:46:57.000 the pitch clock, 00:46:57.000 –> 00:46:59.000 it did a good job of speeding things 00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000 up. And I really do believe, and I 00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:04.000 don’t know if there’s actually hard data to 00:47:04.000 –> 00:47:05.000 back this up. I’m sure there is because 00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000 there’s data for everything now. 00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:07.000 It’s 00:47:08.000 –> 00:47:11.000 I think that it has affected the hitters 00:47:11.000 –> 00:47:14.000 as much if not more than the pitchers. 00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000 Do you have a lot of hitters that 00:47:16.000 –> 00:47:18.000 take their sweet time getting into the box 00:47:19.000 –> 00:47:22.000 redoing their batting glove. Fifty times. 00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:23.000 Skip Schumacher, 00:47:24.000 –> 00:47:26.000 manager of the year. Congratulations 00:47:26.000 –> 00:47:28.000 to help. But they’re guys and skip will 00:47:28.000 –> 00:47:29.000 do it Alright? Skip being in the box 00:47:29.000 –> 00:47:31.000 too. If there’s some guys that would take 00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:33.000 such a long time doing stuff like that, 00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:35.000 there’s no need for it. Get the box, 00:47:35.000 –> 00:47:36.000 get ready to hit. Get on the mound, 00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:37.000 get ready to throw 00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:40.000 Now, the the only one that I’m, again, 00:47:40.000 –> 00:47:42.000 I’m not sure I love is the pick 00:47:42.000 –> 00:47:44.000 offs. And I think that one of the 00:47:44.000 –> 00:47:45.000 biggest weapons 00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:48.000 that a pitcher has again, I understand why 00:47:48.000 –> 00:47:49.000 baseball is doing it. They want to speed 00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:51.000 up the game, but they also wanna add 00:47:51.000 –> 00:47:53.000 more excitement stolen bases are exciting. One of 00:47:53.000 –> 00:47:55.000 the biggest weapons that you have though with 00:47:55.000 –> 00:47:57.000 runners on base is your ability to hold 00:47:57.000 –> 00:47:58.000 the baseball. 00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:00.000 So if you are there and you got 00:48:00.000 –> 00:48:01.000 a burner at first base, if you can 00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:04.000 just hold the Gilliland a few seconds feels 00:48:04.000 –> 00:48:05.000 like an attorney for a base stealer that’s 00:48:05.000 –> 00:48:07.000 ready to move. Back and slow them down. 00:48:07.000 –> 00:48:09.000 Yeah. Now you have a countdown. 00:48:09.000 –> 00:48:11.000 So that means that the next time you 00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:12.000 go quicker. So you keep getting with your 00:48:12.000 –> 00:48:14.000 kid for sure. Yeah. For sure. So that 00:48:14.000 –> 00:48:17.000 changes a little bit, but you still have 00:48:17.000 –> 00:48:19.000 twenty seconds. Now they’re talking about bringing that 00:48:19.000 –> 00:48:22.000 down to eighteen with with runners on. You 00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:24.000 still have the ability to do it. You 00:48:24.000 –> 00:48:25.000 just have to mix it up a little 00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:27.000 more. You know what? Drives me nuts. I 00:48:27.000 –> 00:48:28.000 don’t know why it drives me. I’m like, 00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:30.000 the old man, Brett, getting mad at the 00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000 shit baseball players. 00:48:31.000 –> 00:48:32.000 When they pull, you know, they get their 00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:34.000 back pocket and they’re pulling Carda. I mean, 00:48:34.000 –> 00:48:36.000 I understand what they’re doing, but I’m like, 00:48:36.000 –> 00:48:38.000 at what point do we not let’s just 00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000 work. We’re professional athlete, and we gotta put 00:48:40.000 –> 00:48:42.000 some work in, and it’s not some guy 00:48:42.000 –> 00:48:43.000 hitting me car and say, okay. When this 00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000 guy’s up, then you’re gonna stand. He like, 00:48:45.000 –> 00:48:47.000 like, I I just missed the gut feeling 00:48:47.000 –> 00:48:49.000 and doing what you think she should do. 00:48:49.000 –> 00:48:51.000 That’s part of the game. Yeah. And, 00:48:51.000 –> 00:48:53.000 I I agree with that. I think there 00:48:53.000 –> 00:48:55.000 are a few things. I think that we 00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:57.000 get so caught up and he’s supposed to 00:48:57.000 –> 00:48:59.000 do this. That when he does the other 00:48:59.000 –> 00:49:02.000 thing, we’re not ready. Yeah. So letting those 00:49:02.000 –> 00:49:02.000 instincts, 00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:05.000 letting that athleticism take over I think is 00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:07.000 important. It just goes back to where is 00:49:07.000 –> 00:49:09.000 the fine line. I think that if you 00:49:09.000 –> 00:49:12.000 are if you’re neglecting the data and all 00:49:12.000 –> 00:49:14.000 of the things that have happened, you’re doing 00:49:14.000 –> 00:49:16.000 it wrong. If you’re just going fully on 00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:18.000 gut instinct, you’re doing it wrong. Where’s that 00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:20.000 middle ground? Where where can we find out 00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:22.000 where we still allow the athleticism? 00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:24.000 We give you the prior knowledge tendencies, 00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000 but you know that anything could happen. 00:49:28.000 –> 00:49:29.000 So I I 00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:31.000 I like that part because our athletes now 00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:34.000 in the game of baseball they’re bigger, stronger, 00:49:34.000 –> 00:49:35.000 faster, more athletic than they ever have been 00:49:35.000 –> 00:49:38.000 before. We’re not seeing it. We don’t see 00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:40.000 that athleticism anymore. And I think that that 00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:41.000 was part of the idea 00:49:41.000 –> 00:49:43.000 of limiting the shift 00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:46.000 is having more rangey athletes 00:49:46.000 –> 00:49:47.000 is not having 00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:50.000 a second baseman standing in right field when 00:49:50.000 –> 00:49:52.000 a guy hits absolute missile that was 00:49:53.000 –> 00:49:54.000 used to be a hit. Well, just about 00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000 really, man. Carpenter’s great. Oh, for sure. 00:49:57.000 –> 00:49:59.000 For sure. So, again, I don’t know if 00:49:59.000 –> 00:50:01.000 like that either, the limiting of the shot. 00:50:01.000 –> 00:50:03.000 I go back and forth because, 00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:04.000 like, in my brain, 00:50:04.000 –> 00:50:07.000 I say evolve. Right? Evolve as a hitter. 00:50:07.000 –> 00:50:08.000 Yep. They’re all standing over there, hit it 00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:10.000 over that’s what I don’t understand. I’m like, 00:50:10.000 –> 00:50:12.000 for Carpenter, I’d be yelling at the TV 00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:13.000 like that stupid fan. I’m like, if they’re 00:50:13.000 –> 00:50:15.000 all over there, just slap that thing down 00:50:15.000 –> 00:50:17.000 the line and fix it. Couple of things. 00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:19.000 Right? Couple of things that go into. And 00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:20.000 it hearkens back to when I said it 00:50:20.000 –> 00:50:22.000 looks easy from up here when I’m watching 00:50:22.000 –> 00:50:24.000 the game. So I wouldn’t even stand at 00:50:24.000 –> 00:50:26.000 the batter’s house. I’d be scared to death. 00:50:26.000 –> 00:50:27.000 A lot of times, they say, Hey, just 00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:29.000 hit a ground ball the other way. Well, 00:50:30.000 –> 00:50:30.000 the pitcher 00:50:30.000 –> 00:50:33.000 knows what your tendency is. They that you’re 00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:35.000 a pull hitter. They’re gonna pitch you to 00:50:35.000 –> 00:50:36.000 it. You’re gonna get a lot of cutters 00:50:36.000 –> 00:50:38.000 and you’re gonna get a, they’re gonna let 00:50:38.000 –> 00:50:40.000 you hit it that way. 00:50:41.000 –> 00:50:43.000 It’s very difficult when somebody’s trying to get 00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:44.000 in your kitchen to hit it the other 00:50:44.000 –> 00:50:47.000 way. And then the the other part of 00:50:47.000 –> 00:50:48.000 it, Brett, is monetarily 00:50:49.000 –> 00:50:49.000 monetarily, 00:50:50.000 –> 00:50:52.000 you don’t get paid to hit three hundred. 00:50:52.000 –> 00:50:55.000 And it sucks to say, but you these 00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:57.000 guys get paid for doubles and homers. And 00:50:57.000 –> 00:51:00.000 doubles and homers aren’t coming slapping the other 00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:03.000 way. So this is this is next level. 00:51:03.000 –> 00:51:05.000 This is Rob Manfred and company Brett get 00:51:05.000 –> 00:51:07.000 together with, like, Elon Musk or something. 00:51:07.000 –> 00:51:09.000 But like how do we incentivize 00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:11.000 the game where that does get you paid? 00:51:11.000 –> 00:51:13.000 Where it’s it’s the ground ball to the 00:51:13.000 –> 00:51:15.000 right side to get the guy over. That’s 00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:18.000 quantifiable stat. Like, winning ball, winning baseball should 00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:21.000 be the goal all the time. Realize that 00:51:21.000 –> 00:51:21.000 people have, 00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:25.000 you you have a small window 00:51:25.000 –> 00:51:27.000 to go out there make your money. Yep. 00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:29.000 And you get it again. It’s strikeouts, 00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:32.000 for pitchers, it’s home runs, it’s doubles. But 00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000 man, there are times in the game where 00:51:33.000 –> 00:51:35.000 I need a ground ball that one side. 00:51:35.000 –> 00:51:37.000 Yeah. Where I need that sacrifice fly. I 00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:39.000 feel like there’s gotta be a way to 00:51:39.000 –> 00:51:41.000 encompass that more into 00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:44.000 winning baseball for everybody. And you know, have 00:51:44.000 –> 00:51:47.000 a pool of money for for that or 00:51:47.000 –> 00:51:49.000 the guy that hits the single and hits 00:51:49.000 –> 00:51:51.000 three hundred or, you know, whatever 00:51:51.000 –> 00:51:54.000 I feel like we’re losing our complete baseball 00:51:54.000 –> 00:51:56.000 players, and it’s not the fact that these 00:51:56.000 –> 00:51:58.000 guys can’t do it. Like, that’s the frustrating 00:51:58.000 –> 00:52:00.000 part. It’s just the fact that the game 00:52:00.000 –> 00:52:02.000 doesn’t benefit them doing it. Yeah. That’s a 00:52:02.000 –> 00:52:03.000 good point. That’s a good point. So do 00:52:03.000 –> 00:52:05.000 we talk about the, O’Tani deal? I mean, 00:52:05.000 –> 00:52:06.000 do we do we dare go there? I 00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:07.000 mean, 00:52:07.000 –> 00:52:09.000 I should play better. That’s one of the 00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:11.000 one of the first things that I think 00:52:11.000 –> 00:52:12.000 about. Well, you should have been a right 00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000 fielder as well as a person. I think 00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:16.000 so. And talent did. And, yes, No. That 00:52:17.000 –> 00:52:19.000 those all would be good. Seven year, seventy 00:52:19.000 –> 00:52:20.000 million dollar deal with what was it? Sixty 00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:20.000 eight per deferred? Yeah. 00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:26.000 That’s So here’s my my question. And you’re 00:52:26.000 –> 00:52:28.000 the financial Gilliland so here’s what I don’t 00:52:28.000 –> 00:52:30.000 understand. Maybe you know this, maybe you don’t. 00:52:30.000 –> 00:52:32.000 And I haven’t read it in to see 00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:33.000 if it’s out there. So if I’m the 00:52:33.000 –> 00:52:35.000 fan, let me go on my soapbox for 00:52:35.000 –> 00:52:36.000 a minute. If I’m the fan, that’s just 00:52:36.000 –> 00:52:38.000 great for the net. Is it seven years 00:52:38.000 –> 00:52:39.000 or ten years, whatever it is? Oh, yeah. 00:52:39.000 –> 00:52:41.000 I’m sorry. Ten years. Yeah. Ten years, seven 00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:42.000 hundred hundred million. 00:52:42.000 –> 00:52:44.000 I’m excited for the next ten years, assuming 00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:45.000 it stays healthy. 00:52:46.000 –> 00:52:48.000 But what about the eleventh year? Right? So 00:52:48.000 –> 00:52:50.000 now the guy is getting paid sixty eight 00:52:50.000 –> 00:52:51.000 million dollars. 00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:53.000 To not play for you. They they talked 00:52:53.000 –> 00:52:54.000 about Bobby Baniya, 00:52:55.000 –> 00:52:57.000 like his deal, right, with the Mets? Remember 00:52:57.000 –> 00:52:58.000 that one? Yep. Still getting paid, I think. 00:52:59.000 –> 00:53:01.000 But point is is now I’m paying sixty 00:53:01.000 –> 00:53:02.000 eight million dollars. So number one, I don’t 00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:03.000 know if I liked that as a fan. 00:53:03.000 –> 00:53:04.000 But number two, 00:53:05.000 –> 00:53:07.000 as the financial guy, O’Tani, is I’d rather 00:53:07.000 –> 00:53:09.000 have my seventy million today 00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:12.000 because my fear would be, what if what 00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000 if they’re not around? Obviously, the dodgers probably 00:53:14.000 –> 00:53:15.000 aren’t going anywhere. Yeah. That’s what you think 00:53:15.000 –> 00:53:17.000 Right? What if they’re not there? So I 00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:18.000 don’t know if they buy an insurance policy 00:53:18.000 –> 00:53:20.000 on that, but he’s putting a lot of 00:53:20.000 –> 00:53:23.000 trust in the Los Angeles Dodgers to, to 00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:24.000 pay me pay me in ten years. Brad, 00:53:24.000 –> 00:53:25.000 I didn’t even think about that. 00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:27.000 That’s why I have guys like you. That’s 00:53:27.000 –> 00:53:30.000 right. They’re thinking about things like this. So, 00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:32.000 what what are the ways, I guess, that 00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:34.000 he is able to do this, not that 00:53:34.000 –> 00:53:35.000 it, like, you want your money and you 00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:37.000 wanna be able to utilize it and wanna 00:53:37.000 –> 00:53:38.000 be able to grow it. I guess one 00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:39.000 of the ways that he’s doing it, they 00:53:39.000 –> 00:53:41.000 say he makes at least over fifty million 00:53:41.000 –> 00:53:42.000 dollars a year off the field. That helps. 00:53:42.000 –> 00:53:44.000 Okay. I shouldn’t know that. To be able 00:53:44.000 –> 00:53:45.000 to do that. I figured he wasn’t going 00:53:45.000 –> 00:53:47.000 broke. No. But chances are. I think I 00:53:47.000 –> 00:53:48.000 was I was looking at this the other 00:53:48.000 –> 00:53:50.000 day. I think that with the 00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:53.000 the two million that he’s technically making. As 00:53:53.000 –> 00:53:55.000 you and I were talking before the podcast, 00:53:55.000 –> 00:53:57.000 though, like, it’ll it’ll cost more or it’ll 00:53:57.000 –> 00:53:59.000 look like more Yeah. At least when they 00:53:59.000 –> 00:54:01.000 do the luxury tax, whatever. But for the 00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:03.000 two million that he’s making, I think he’s, 00:54:03.000 –> 00:54:05.000 like, the tenth or eleventh highest paid player 00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:07.000 on the Dodgers. Right? Now. Like, it’s it’s 00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:09.000 it’s kind of a silly figure that is 00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:12.000 out there. But, yeah, I I don’t know. 00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:14.000 I don’t know how this shakes out at 00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:15.000 the end of it. I don’t know how 00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:17.000 it works out for him, but I do 00:54:17.000 –> 00:54:19.000 know it allows the dodgers a team with 00:54:19.000 –> 00:54:21.000 a lot of financial flexibility anyhow, obviously, to 00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:23.000 be able to sign a deal like this. 00:54:23.000 –> 00:54:24.000 At some point, you’re gonna to pay the 00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:26.000 piper. Yeah. But it also allows them to 00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:28.000 go out there and add more pieces. You 00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:30.000 know, they already made the Brad. They brought 00:54:30.000 –> 00:54:33.000 in glass now. Yeah. And they signed him 00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:36.000 to an extension. Apparently, they’re still in on 00:54:36.000 –> 00:54:36.000 Yamamoto 00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:39.000 Yeah. Which is crazy. And who knows, by 00:54:39.000 –> 00:54:41.000 the time somebody watches this, maybe Yamamoto has 00:54:41.000 –> 00:54:43.000 signed. Right. He’s met with a few different 00:54:43.000 –> 00:54:44.000 teams. Don’t believe the cardinals are one of 00:54:44.000 –> 00:54:46.000 them at this point. Maybe maybe they are 00:54:46.000 –> 00:54:48.000 the mystery team. We’ll go with that mystery 00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:52.000 team, but, it’s if you are able to 00:54:52.000 –> 00:54:54.000 structure a deal like that, it sure does 00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:56.000 provide your team some flexibility. And I wonder 00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:58.000 I wonder, like, what doors is this gonna, 00:54:59.000 –> 00:55:01.000 like, or this Pandora’s box. Yeah. Like doing 00:55:01.000 –> 00:55:01.000 sixty 00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:04.000 dollars. They’re gonna be able to get. They’ll 00:55:04.000 –> 00:55:05.000 pay for that. Yeah. They’ll pay for that. 00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:08.000 That’s why, I mean, unfortunately, Anutani can’t, like, 00:55:08.000 –> 00:55:10.000 as he can. But to come to Saint 00:55:10.000 –> 00:55:11.000 Louis is gonna be hard versus you gotta 00:55:11.000 –> 00:55:13.000 be in LA or New York for that 00:55:13.000 –> 00:55:14.000 amount of money. You would think. You would 00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.000 think so. Right? So, I’m 00:55:17.000 –> 00:55:19.000 I’m interested to see it. Like, I I’m 00:55:19.000 –> 00:55:21.000 looking forward to you. Think about that lineup. 00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:23.000 You think about three guys or you have 00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:24.000 three hall of famers in a row. You 00:55:24.000 –> 00:55:27.000 got you got Muokey Brett Shohaeotani and Freddie 00:55:27.000 –> 00:55:28.000 Freeman? Stop. 00:55:28.000 –> 00:55:30.000 It’s incredible. Yeah. You know who’s gonna be 00:55:30.000 –> 00:55:32.000 calling his game. Who’s that? Brad Thompson? 00:55:33.000 –> 00:55:35.000 That’ll be fun. I mean, right? Hope I 00:55:35.000 –> 00:55:37.000 get the Dodgers series. Did and that who 00:55:37.000 –> 00:55:39.000 we open it against? Oh, yeah. In LA, 00:55:40.000 –> 00:55:42.000 right in the beginning. I mean, Brett It’s 00:55:42.000 –> 00:55:44.000 no hate time. Because he he’ll be, yeah, 00:55:44.000 –> 00:55:46.000 he’s back. He just has the DH next 00:55:46.000 –> 00:55:47.000 year. Right? Just the DH. But he’ll be 00:55:47.000 –> 00:55:48.000 he’ll be ready for opening day. Real quick. 00:55:48.000 –> 00:55:50.000 Yeah. And he will be. 00:55:50.000 –> 00:55:52.000 That’s one of the that’s another thing. You 00:55:52.000 –> 00:55:54.000 wanna think about this investment. That just tells 00:55:54.000 –> 00:55:55.000 you off the field they’re gonna make all 00:55:55.000 –> 00:55:56.000 their money. They’re they’re gonna be fine. You 00:55:56.000 –> 00:55:58.000 have a lot of smart people crunching the 00:55:58.000 –> 00:56:00.000 over there, with the Dodgers. 00:56:01.000 –> 00:56:02.000 What what if he doesn’t pitch again? I 00:56:02.000 –> 00:56:05.000 know. He he’s had two elbow surgeries. He’s 00:56:05.000 –> 00:56:07.000 had Tommy John, and then he’s had whatever 00:56:07.000 –> 00:56:09.000 this last one was, which that they’ve kept 00:56:09.000 –> 00:56:10.000 close to the vest. Obviously, the Dodgers have 00:56:10.000 –> 00:56:13.000 to know exactly what he Brad. But that’s 00:56:13.000 –> 00:56:15.000 a lot. That is an enormous risk, but 00:56:15.000 –> 00:56:18.000 it just tells you that unicorn that Shohae 00:56:18.000 –> 00:56:21.000 O’Tani is, that even with the murkiness of 00:56:21.000 –> 00:56:22.000 the future, it makes them it’s not murky 00:56:22.000 –> 00:56:24.000 at all. I just think two surgeries, one 00:56:24.000 –> 00:56:25.000 area, 00:56:25.000 –> 00:56:27.000 is a little scary when you’re investing like 00:56:27.000 –> 00:56:29.000 that. Yeah. Like, that is that is a 00:56:29.000 –> 00:56:31.000 lot to be thrown out there. For one 00:56:31.000 –> 00:56:32.000 thing, the rehab, I mean, you know that 00:56:32.000 –> 00:56:34.000 from experience. Right? I mean, the rehab become 00:56:34.000 –> 00:56:36.000 that who knows what’s gonna happen with the 00:56:36.000 –> 00:56:39.000 arm? It’s scary, man. So, last question for 00:56:39.000 –> 00:56:41.000 you, Brad, is, you think about your amazing 00:56:41.000 –> 00:56:43.000 well, now I got two questions for you. 00:56:43.000 –> 00:56:44.000 One of them is about your kids. What 00:56:44.000 –> 00:56:46.000 what do they think? You know, obviously Dylan 00:56:46.000 –> 00:56:48.000 playing baseball and stuff now. I’m sure your 00:56:48.000 –> 00:56:50.000 daughter pays attention to that stuff. And what 00:56:50.000 –> 00:56:51.000 do they think about Brad 00:56:52.000 –> 00:56:54.000 you know, doing what you’re doing now. Yeah. 00:56:54.000 –> 00:56:55.000 They, 00:56:55.000 –> 00:56:57.000 they’re finally at the point where I think 00:56:57.000 –> 00:56:58.000 that they understand 00:56:58.000 –> 00:57:00.000 what what it is that I do. And, 00:57:00.000 –> 00:57:02.000 as as I mentioned earlier, year. My son 00:57:02.000 –> 00:57:04.000 was born Gilliland, 00:57:04.000 –> 00:57:06.000 of my career, wasn’t in the big leagues 00:57:06.000 –> 00:57:07.000 anymore. So he never got to see that. 00:57:07.000 –> 00:57:09.000 And he never, my my kids never got 00:57:09.000 –> 00:57:11.000 to come to the field with me and 00:57:11.000 –> 00:57:13.000 and go play in the field. Like, stuff 00:57:13.000 –> 00:57:14.000 that I I got to see all these 00:57:14.000 –> 00:57:16.000 other guys do. Yeah. Or I was like, 00:57:16.000 –> 00:57:18.000 look at these old guys. They’re kids. 00:57:18.000 –> 00:57:20.000 My kids never got to do that. Yeah. 00:57:20.000 –> 00:57:21.000 Like, what a great thing it is for 00:57:21.000 –> 00:57:23.000 all these these kids. They get to kinda 00:57:23.000 –> 00:57:24.000 grow up in a clubhouse. 00:57:25.000 –> 00:57:28.000 Well, I they kinda get a little bit 00:57:28.000 –> 00:57:29.000 of that now with me doing what I 00:57:29.000 –> 00:57:31.000 do. They can come up to the booth 00:57:31.000 –> 00:57:33.000 and kinda see see what that is like. 00:57:34.000 –> 00:57:36.000 But I hope they think it’s cool. There 00:57:36.000 –> 00:57:38.000 there are downsides to it. Right? Like any 00:57:38.000 –> 00:57:39.000 other job. Yep. We were talking about youth 00:57:39.000 –> 00:57:41.000 baseball earlier. Unfortunately, 00:57:41.000 –> 00:57:44.000 you know, the youth baseball season, which, like, 00:57:44.000 –> 00:57:46.000 if perfect world. You know, if I weren’t 00:57:46.000 –> 00:57:47.000 doing that, I’d be coaching all the time. 00:57:47.000 –> 00:57:49.000 Like, that’s it. I’d be I’d have a 00:57:49.000 –> 00:57:51.000 youth academy and be doing all of that. 00:57:52.000 –> 00:57:53.000 I miss a lot. I miss a lot 00:57:53.000 –> 00:57:55.000 of the kid stuff during the summer, and 00:57:55.000 –> 00:57:57.000 that that part of it is very difficult. 00:57:57.000 –> 00:57:59.000 And that’s why this time now in the 00:57:59.000 –> 00:58:01.000 off season is so great to be home 00:58:01.000 –> 00:58:03.000 be able to pour in a lot more. 00:58:03.000 –> 00:58:04.000 But I I think that they like it, 00:58:04.000 –> 00:58:06.000 but I’ll be honest with you. I think 00:58:06.000 –> 00:58:08.000 the biggest thing that they get a kick 00:58:08.000 –> 00:58:10.000 out of is that I know Fred Bird. 00:58:10.000 –> 00:58:11.000 That’s it. Like that And I do your 00:58:11.000 –> 00:58:13.000 show. Fred Bird’s my end. Yeah. I got 00:58:13.000 –> 00:58:15.000 the Partners kids TV show. That’s my end. 00:58:15.000 –> 00:58:16.000 That’s awesome. And that last question I was 00:58:16.000 –> 00:58:19.000 gonna talk about is the community is very 00:58:19.000 –> 00:58:21.000 important to you, and you and your, amazing 00:58:21.000 –> 00:58:22.000 wife, you guys do awesome stuff for our, 00:58:22.000 –> 00:58:24.000 for our community here in Saint Louis. But 00:58:24.000 –> 00:58:26.000 when when you think about legacy, I mean, 00:58:26.000 –> 00:58:27.000 what do you what do you got the 00:58:27.000 –> 00:58:29.000 Thompson family to be known for. 00:58:29.000 –> 00:58:32.000 And, what’s important about that to you? Man, 00:58:32.000 –> 00:58:33.000 it’s it’s a great question. Honestly, I I’m 00:58:33.000 –> 00:58:35.000 not sure how much I’ve actually thought about 00:58:35.000 –> 00:58:38.000 leg Like, I thought about down the road. 00:58:38.000 –> 00:58:40.000 But I know this, I I don’t ever 00:58:40.000 –> 00:58:43.000 wanna be the person that is is walking 00:58:43.000 –> 00:58:44.000 up and you’re like, oh, here you go. 00:58:44.000 –> 00:58:46.000 Or are, like, I I want to be 00:58:46.000 –> 00:58:48.000 somebody that that leaves, 00:58:48.000 –> 00:58:51.000 when somebody thinks about me or what I 00:58:51.000 –> 00:58:53.000 do, like, they smile. Like, and, 00:58:53.000 –> 00:58:56.000 they I wanna bring excitement. I wanna bring 00:58:56.000 –> 00:58:58.000 happiness, and I I want to be able 00:58:58.000 –> 00:59:00.000 to give back. And I think that that 00:59:00.000 –> 00:59:01.000 is important, Brett. And I know that something 00:59:01.000 –> 00:59:03.000 that you and your wife do a ton 00:59:03.000 –> 00:59:05.000 of in in our community. And, it’s something 00:59:05.000 –> 00:59:07.000 that I would love to just build something 00:59:07.000 –> 00:59:09.000 more than the right here, the right now, 00:59:09.000 –> 00:59:11.000 the the this game. And, you know, that’s 00:59:11.000 –> 00:59:12.000 kind of a a process. But I think 00:59:12.000 –> 00:59:14.000 it’s also a great example. 00:59:14.000 –> 00:59:16.000 You’ve got a, you know, a young family 00:59:16.000 –> 00:59:19.000 who learning how important that is that it’s 00:59:19.000 –> 00:59:22.000 more so than just the the I am 00:59:22.000 –> 00:59:23.000 doing this right now and say, no, what 00:59:23.000 –> 00:59:26.000 we doing? What are we doing as a 00:59:26.000 –> 00:59:27.000 as a community as a as a people? 00:59:27.000 –> 00:59:30.000 So, I’d like to continue to grow that. 00:59:30.000 –> 00:59:32.000 But I think that any way that, you 00:59:32.000 –> 00:59:34.000 know, I can help in the community. I 00:59:34.000 –> 00:59:36.000 like to do. I like to to be 00:59:36.000 –> 00:59:38.000 around and I like to just be a 00:59:38.000 –> 00:59:40.000 part of things. And it’s special being here, 00:59:41.000 –> 00:59:42.000 being a part of the community of Saint 00:59:42.000 –> 00:59:44.000 Louis and the greater Saint Louis area 00:59:45.000 –> 00:59:45.000 is, 00:59:45.000 –> 00:59:48.000 it’s big. But it’s small. Right. It feels 00:59:48.000 –> 00:59:50.000 like, a Gilliland it’s it’s nice to be 00:59:50.000 –> 00:59:52.000 a part of it. Looking for the date 00:59:52.000 –> 00:59:54.000 exactly. I should know that. 00:59:54.000 –> 00:59:56.000 But speaking of stuff for the community, for 00:59:56.000 –> 00:59:58.000 those listening, February tenth, put that on your 00:59:58.000 –> 01:00:01.000 calendar, the the KC Hall in Ofoul in 01:00:01.000 –> 01:00:03.000 Illinois, Rock for Hope. Oh, nice. For Hope, 01:00:03.000 –> 01:00:06.000 Charity got a Brad, the Nashville All stars 01:00:06.000 –> 01:00:08.000 is what we’re calling about. It’s like big 01:00:08.000 –> 01:00:10.000 country music people. It’s like their guitar player, 01:00:10.000 –> 01:00:12.000 their drummer, their what Yes. When they’re not 01:00:12.000 –> 01:00:14.000 traveling with their main people, they come together. 01:00:14.000 –> 01:00:16.000 And so they’re coming here from Nashville, Tennessee 01:00:17.000 –> 01:00:18.000 on, February tenth 01:00:19.000 –> 01:00:20.000 at the KC Hall, we’re gonna raise some 01:00:20.000 –> 01:00:22.000 money. We’re gonna kick cancer’s ass and listen 01:00:22.000 –> 01:00:24.000 to an amazing band. So maybe you’ll see 01:00:24.000 –> 01:00:26.000 Brad Thompson there. Oh, no doubt. If I’m 01:00:26.000 –> 01:00:28.000 in town, I’m there. You’re there. How long 01:00:28.000 –> 01:00:30.000 have you guys been going with swingpro? 01:00:30.000 –> 01:00:31.000 It’s 01:00:32.000 –> 01:00:34.000 been amazing, man. It’s a long time. And 01:00:34.000 –> 01:00:37.000 so, you know, my the story, my mom’s, 01:00:37.000 –> 01:00:40.000 my mom’s mom and her grandma and two 01:00:40.000 –> 01:00:41.000 of her aunts were all diagnosed with cancer 01:00:41.000 –> 01:00:43.000 at the same time within about a six 01:00:43.000 –> 01:00:44.000 or seven month period. 01:00:44.000 –> 01:00:46.000 And, so that that was a lot. And 01:00:46.000 –> 01:00:47.000 so 01:00:47.000 –> 01:00:49.000 we were driving and thinking what are we 01:00:49.000 –> 01:00:50.000 gonna do about this? And so we started 01:00:50.000 –> 01:00:52.000 our charity. And so with amazing people in 01:00:52.000 –> 01:00:54.000 the community, look out the windows here. I 01:00:54.000 –> 01:00:55.000 mean, we couldn’t do what we do without 01:00:55.000 –> 01:00:57.000 the people on our our board and people 01:00:57.000 –> 01:00:59.000 like you that show up to events. It’s 01:00:59.000 –> 01:01:01.000 just it’s awesome, man. So thanks for asking. 01:01:01.000 –> 01:01:03.000 But it’s, this is about Brad Thompson. 01:01:04.000 –> 01:01:06.000 Two thousand twenty four season. What were we 01:01:06.000 –> 01:01:06.000 predicting? 01:01:07.000 –> 01:01:09.000 More wins. Yeah. More wins. That’s for a 01:01:09.000 –> 01:01:11.000 quote. Hey, look. The cardinals, they they made 01:01:11.000 –> 01:01:13.000 some additions. I know a lot of people 01:01:13.000 –> 01:01:14.000 joking around. I was like, man, they got 01:01:14.000 –> 01:01:16.000 older. It got better is is what they 01:01:16.000 –> 01:01:18.000 did. And, at this point, 01:01:18.000 –> 01:01:21.000 three additions to your rotation, Sunny Gravee, and 01:01:21.000 –> 01:01:23.000 the headliner who I think is a fantastic 01:01:23.000 –> 01:01:24.000 you have a three year deal for Sunny 01:01:24.000 –> 01:01:26.000 Gray guy that knows exactly what he’s doing. 01:01:27.000 –> 01:01:28.000 I think that he’s gonna be Brett. Second 01:01:28.000 –> 01:01:30.000 in the Sa Young voting last year. 01:01:31.000 –> 01:01:33.000 Lancelyn and Kyle Gibson adds certainty in the 01:01:33.000 –> 01:01:36.000 middle of your rotation, and especially Lance Lynn 01:01:36.000 –> 01:01:38.000 and Kyle Gibson adds leadership for sure. But, 01:01:39.000 –> 01:01:42.000 Lance Lynn adds an element that you didn’t 01:01:42.000 –> 01:01:44.000 have, somebody that a little porcupine, 01:01:44.000 –> 01:01:45.000 a little bristle, 01:01:46.000 –> 01:01:48.000 in there that will push back. And I 01:01:48.000 –> 01:01:50.000 think that’s an important thing to have club 01:01:50.000 –> 01:01:51.000 houses. So I I know that he’s gonna 01:01:51.000 –> 01:01:53.000 add that. You picked up a couple of 01:01:53.000 –> 01:01:55.000 bullpen arms, wanting to trade with Boston, other 01:01:55.000 –> 01:01:57.000 in the rule five draft. I I don’t 01:01:57.000 –> 01:01:59.000 believe that they’re done yet when it comes 01:01:59.000 –> 01:02:01.000 to the pen. So I’m excited. I’m excited 01:02:01.000 –> 01:02:03.000 to see the young guys. I wanna see 01:02:03.000 –> 01:02:05.000 a year two of Jordan Walker. Yeah. Can’t 01:02:05.000 –> 01:02:07.000 wait to watch Mason win, man short stop 01:02:07.000 –> 01:02:09.000 for a season the kid is. So he’ll 01:02:09.000 –> 01:02:10.000 start. They already said that. Yeah. I believe 01:02:10.000 –> 01:02:12.000 so. Like, that’s the plan, at least, that 01:02:12.000 –> 01:02:13.000 he’ll be the guy. 01:02:14.000 –> 01:02:17.000 So I’m looking forward to that. Gilliland Aronado, 01:02:17.000 –> 01:02:20.000 another year with those guys. Like, everything is 01:02:20.000 –> 01:02:21.000 right there for the cardinals 01:02:22.000 –> 01:02:24.000 to compete and hopefully win the central. Other 01:02:24.000 –> 01:02:26.000 teams have been pretty quiet in the central. 01:02:26.000 –> 01:02:28.000 I don’t expect come to stay quiet the 01:02:28.000 –> 01:02:30.000 entire time other than hiring Craig Council away 01:02:30.000 –> 01:02:33.000 from the Milwaukee brewers, which is crazy. You’re 01:02:33.000 –> 01:02:35.000 in division, isn’t it? Yeah. Well, especially how 01:02:35.000 –> 01:02:37.000 much money they paid Right? Gave him a 01:02:37.000 –> 01:02:39.000 a forty million dollar deal over five years. 01:02:39.000 –> 01:02:39.000 Pretty impressive. 01:02:40.000 –> 01:02:42.000 So you would believe that they’re not done 01:02:42.000 –> 01:02:43.000 adding to it. But I think that they 01:02:43.000 –> 01:02:45.000 should be competing for their vision this year. 01:02:45.000 –> 01:02:47.000 And I know cardinal fans, like, hate to 01:02:47.000 –> 01:02:49.000 hear it because they they wanna talk about 01:02:49.000 –> 01:02:51.000 building what the Dodgers Brett. Right? Go out 01:02:51.000 –> 01:02:53.000 and just spend all all of this money, 01:02:53.000 –> 01:02:54.000 but it is very true. And I think 01:02:54.000 –> 01:02:56.000 the Dodgers can tell you this too is 01:02:56.000 –> 01:02:58.000 they don’t win the world series every time 01:02:58.000 –> 01:03:00.000 they get there, get into the post season, 01:03:00.000 –> 01:03:03.000 get yourself and specifically win your division, 01:03:03.000 –> 01:03:05.000 win your Gilliland 01:03:05.000 –> 01:03:07.000 you never know what’s gonna happen when you 01:03:07.000 –> 01:03:09.000 get into October. So that’s the hope this 01:03:09.000 –> 01:03:11.000 year that we have a deep run into 01:03:11.000 –> 01:03:13.000 October, I think you got the right pieces 01:03:13.000 –> 01:03:14.000 to do. And I also know that you 01:03:14.000 –> 01:03:16.000 have the right prospect capital. If you get 01:03:16.000 –> 01:03:18.000 close to the trade deadline, you believe that 01:03:18.000 –> 01:03:19.000 you’re a piece short, 01:03:19.000 –> 01:03:21.000 that John Jose logged, Michael Gers, they can 01:03:21.000 –> 01:03:22.000 go out and make a deal like. Yeah. 01:03:22.000 –> 01:03:24.000 That’s awesome. Where do our listeners find more 01:03:24.000 –> 01:03:25.000 of Brad Thompson? 01:03:26.000 –> 01:03:28.000 Right here. On this podcast is where you 01:03:28.000 –> 01:03:30.000 find out. I’m, hopefully be doing a lot 01:03:30.000 –> 01:03:32.000 more games on on Valley sports, 01:03:32.000 –> 01:03:33.000 doing a lot of fill in work on 01:03:33.000 –> 01:03:36.000 01:01 ESPN as know, I’ve scaled back, but 01:03:36.000 –> 01:03:37.000 I can’t stay all the way out. You 01:03:37.000 –> 01:03:39.000 know, Andrea doesn’t want me home all the 01:03:39.000 –> 01:03:40.000 time, Brad. I gotta be able to get 01:03:40.000 –> 01:03:42.000 out of the house. So, hopefully, you hear 01:03:42.000 –> 01:03:44.000 me popping up a little bit more here 01:03:44.000 –> 01:03:45.000 this new year. Man, thanks so much for 01:03:45.000 –> 01:03:47.000 being on the circuit of success. I appreciate 01:03:47.000 –> 01:03:49.000 having you. I think I think you might 01:03:49.000 –> 01:03:51.000 be the only three time guest because you 01:03:51.000 –> 01:03:52.000 were I looked at this last night. Really? 01:03:52.000 –> 01:03:54.000 We did this in April. 01:03:54.000 –> 01:03:57.000 I started this February six two thousand seventeen. 01:03:58.000 –> 01:04:00.000 You were on an April of two thousand 01:04:00.000 –> 01:04:01.000 seventeen. I looked, so our kids would have 01:04:01.000 –> 01:04:04.000 been, like, three. That my fourth and your 01:04:04.000 –> 01:04:06.000 oldest would have been three. And then we 01:04:06.000 –> 01:04:06.000 did, 01:04:07.000 –> 01:04:08.000 which was a blast for me. Hopefully, it 01:04:08.000 –> 01:04:10.000 was fun for you all. Me, you, Jason 01:04:10.000 –> 01:04:11.000 Iseringhausen, 01:04:12.000 –> 01:04:15.000 Kyle McClellan, Jason Simonachi, and Brian Jordan. That 01:04:15.000 –> 01:04:16.000 was a fun one. That was awesome. We’re 01:04:16.000 –> 01:04:18.000 all at home. Remember that? It’s supposed to 01:04:18.000 –> 01:04:19.000 be open today? It’s supposed to be opening 01:04:19.000 –> 01:04:21.000 day for the cardinals, and we had an 01:04:21.000 –> 01:04:22.000 amazing, I don’t know, hour and a half, 01:04:22.000 –> 01:04:24.000 two hour deal. So that was awesome. So, 01:04:24.000 –> 01:04:26.000 brother, thank you for being with us again. 01:04:26.000 –> 01:04:27.000 It’s awesome having you. Thank you for having 01:04:27.000 –> 01:04:28.000 me as honored three times.

Jan 8, 2024 • 1h 4min

The JRNY of Chris Pronger: NHL Hall of Famer

Welcome to another riveting episode of the Circuit of Success podcast! In this edition, host Brett Gilliland dives deep into the extraordinary journey of Chris Pronger, a true hockey legend and former NHL player. Join us as we explore Pronger’s career, from his high school hockey days to becoming a Hall of Fame inductee and a two-time gold medalist. Discover the grit and physicality that defined Pronger’s time on the ice, including his victorious moments as a Stanley Cup champion with the St. Louis Blues. Gain insights into the challenges of professional sports and the wisdom Pronger gleaned from early mentorship, highlighting the role of a business coach in shaping his path to greatness. But that’s not all – Pronger’s story extends beyond the rink. Uncover the fascinating world of Journey J.R.N.Y., the whisky business co-founded by Chris and his brother. Delve into the intricacies of their venture, forged through years of research and development. In this episode, Pronger shares invaluable advice on investing in oneself, the pursuit of excellence, and the significance of giving back to the community. Learn how his experiences as an athlete fueled his commitment to making a positive impact on the world, echoing the sentiment that the adrenaline rush on the ice is irreplaceable but focusing on the present is paramount. Whether you’re a hockey enthusiast, a business-minded individual, or someone seeking inspiration, Chris Pronger’s insights are sure to resonate. Join us for a compelling discussion that intertwines NHL glory, the St. Louis Blues legacy, the essence of a hockey legend, and the exciting world of JRNY whisky. Don’t miss out on this episode packed with wisdom and the keys to success. Subscribe now and be part of the Circuit of Success journey! Chris Pronger – NHL HALL OF FAME 00:00:14.000 –> 00:00:16.000 I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. 00:00:16.000 –> 00:00:19.000 And today, I’ve got Chris Pronger. What’s up, 00:00:19.000 –> 00:00:20.000 my man? How are you? 00:00:21.000 –> 00:00:23.000 I am great. It’s good to have you. 00:00:23.000 –> 00:00:25.000 You. Been excited about this. It’s been a 00:00:25.000 –> 00:00:26.000 while. It’s been a while. 00:00:26.000 –> 00:00:28.000 We got our customers. We are branded for 00:00:28.000 –> 00:00:31.000 those watching at home. Thank you. Got the 00:00:31.000 –> 00:00:33.000 turkey Canadian whiskey right here. I go Brett. 00:00:33.000 –> 00:00:35.000 You go black? Yeah. You’re kind enough to 00:00:35.000 –> 00:00:36.000 come in here and give me a shirt. 00:00:36.000 –> 00:00:39.000 We got some, we got some whisky here. 00:00:39.000 –> 00:00:41.000 We may open one in a Gilliland, 00:00:42.000 –> 00:00:44.000 but yeah, man, you are the Hall fame 00:00:44.000 –> 00:00:46.000 hockey player, two time gold medalist, 00:00:47.000 –> 00:00:48.000 Stanley Cupchamp, 00:00:49.000 –> 00:00:51.000 Number forty four is retired at the enterprise 00:00:51.000 –> 00:00:52.000 center. 00:00:52.000 –> 00:00:54.000 You are a whisky owner. You are a 00:00:54.000 –> 00:00:56.000 husband. You are a father. And my last 00:00:56.000 –> 00:00:58.000 thing, I put your one hell of a 00:00:58.000 –> 00:01:00.000 golfer. Uh-huh. Wow. Not quite as good as 00:01:00.000 –> 00:01:00.000 you. 00:01:02.000 –> 00:01:04.000 But, man, that’s a hell of a career. 00:01:04.000 –> 00:01:05.000 That’s a hell of a career. Yeah. Practice 00:01:05.000 –> 00:01:07.000 on your slap shot. Not not your golf 00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:10.000 shot. Right? So, well, it’s been awesome getting 00:01:10.000 –> 00:01:12.000 to know you through old Billy. Billy Schmidt 00:01:12.000 –> 00:01:14.000 introduced to two of us. And so it’s 00:01:14.000 –> 00:01:16.000 been fun getting to know you, man. So 00:01:16.000 –> 00:01:17.000 I was excited to have you on the 00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:18.000 pod But if you can, 00:01:18.000 –> 00:01:20.000 people that don’t know you, I’m sure they 00:01:20.000 –> 00:01:21.000 listen to this probably does know you. But 00:01:21.000 –> 00:01:22.000 for those that don’t, man, there’s always a 00:01:22.000 –> 00:01:24.000 backstory. Something that’s helped make you the man 00:01:24.000 –> 00:01:25.000 you are today, and I always love to 00:01:25.000 –> 00:01:27.000 chat about that. So there, if you don’t 00:01:27.000 –> 00:01:29.000 mind. Yeah. No. I grew up in small 00:01:29.000 –> 00:01:30.000 town Canada, 00:01:30.000 –> 00:01:31.000 dried in Ontario, 00:01:32.000 –> 00:01:34.000 thriving metropolis of about seven thousand, 00:01:35.000 –> 00:01:36.000 strong right now. 00:01:37.000 –> 00:01:37.000 Nice. 00:01:38.000 –> 00:01:41.000 Northwest in Ontario is, so my hometown driving 00:01:41.000 –> 00:01:43.000 is eight hours straight north of Minneapolis. 00:01:43.000 –> 00:01:47.000 K. The coldest place in the continental US, 00:01:47.000 –> 00:01:48.000 not in Alaska 00:01:49.000 –> 00:01:51.000 is international falls, which is two and a 00:01:51.000 –> 00:01:53.000 half hours south of me. Wow. So it 00:01:53.000 –> 00:01:54.000 is cold. 00:01:56.000 –> 00:01:57.000 Not a lot going on in the winter 00:01:57.000 –> 00:01:59.000 other than hockey and 00:01:59.000 –> 00:02:00.000 snowmobiling, 00:02:00.000 –> 00:02:02.000 and ice fishing, and what you what you 00:02:02.000 –> 00:02:04.000 would expect. Yeah. But, 00:02:05.000 –> 00:02:07.000 Brett childhood growing up. Love living there. It 00:02:07.000 –> 00:02:09.000 was, it was a lot of fun. You 00:02:09.000 –> 00:02:11.000 know, see pre internet. So it was 00:02:12.000 –> 00:02:14.000 not a lot going on as far as, 00:02:14.000 –> 00:02:16.000 surfing the web and doing all that stuff 00:02:16.000 –> 00:02:18.000 and video games. It was pretty, 00:02:19.000 –> 00:02:22.000 you know, kinda asteroids and, the simple games 00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:24.000 that’s, that you can think of. But, 00:02:25.000 –> 00:02:27.000 now we played hockey pretty much every My 00:02:27.000 –> 00:02:29.000 brother, like, it’s pretty much what you do 00:02:29.000 –> 00:02:31.000 up there. Right? You’re not you’re not playing 00:02:31.000 –> 00:02:33.000 basketball or are you playing basketball baseball in 00:02:33.000 –> 00:02:35.000 the summers? Yeah. No. I was a multi 00:02:35.000 –> 00:02:36.000 sport athlete. Okay. 00:02:36.000 –> 00:02:38.000 I would play hockey in the 00:02:39.000 –> 00:02:40.000 fall, winter, 00:02:40.000 –> 00:02:43.000 early spring. And then would play baseball. Mhmm. 00:02:43.000 –> 00:02:45.000 And then I would golf all summer and 00:02:45.000 –> 00:02:47.000 kind of swim in the lake and be 00:02:47.000 –> 00:02:49.000 a kid. Nice. And then, 00:02:50.000 –> 00:02:52.000 I usually did not put skates on till 00:02:52.000 –> 00:02:55.000 the last two weeks of August when I 00:02:55.000 –> 00:02:56.000 would normally go to Thunder Bay and do 00:02:56.000 –> 00:02:57.000 a hockey school and stay with my grandparents 00:02:57.000 –> 00:02:58.000 and kinda have some time with 00:03:00.000 –> 00:03:02.000 them. My parents would get a break from 00:03:02.000 –> 00:03:04.000 us. Because you and your brother, right? Just 00:03:04.000 –> 00:03:06.000 me and my brother who’s two years older. 00:03:06.000 –> 00:03:08.000 Two for two for your parents and Angel 00:03:08.000 –> 00:03:09.000 hockey stars. 00:03:09.000 –> 00:03:10.000 And then, 00:03:10.000 –> 00:03:11.000 yeah, we just 00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:13.000 I mean, it was pretty simple living. It 00:03:13.000 –> 00:03:15.000 was nice. It’s awesome. Yeah. Not a whole 00:03:15.000 –> 00:03:17.000 lot to worry about. No cell phones. No 00:03:17.000 –> 00:03:18.000 nothing. And how much older is your brother 00:03:18.000 –> 00:03:20.000 than you? Two years. Okay. So two years 00:03:20.000 –> 00:03:21.000 older than you. So he’s beating the crap 00:03:21.000 –> 00:03:23.000 out of you guys or kids, running around 00:03:23.000 –> 00:03:25.000 a backyard. I believe I counted one summer. 00:03:25.000 –> 00:03:26.000 I had forty nine bleeding noses. 00:03:27.000 –> 00:03:28.000 So there was, 00:03:29.000 –> 00:03:31.000 there Thanks a lot. As as we used 00:03:31.000 –> 00:03:32.000 to hear a lot of, oh, the Pronger 00:03:32.000 –> 00:03:34.000 boys are going at it again. Yeah. But, 00:03:34.000 –> 00:03:35.000 no, it was, 00:03:36.000 –> 00:03:37.000 It was your dad, mom, the end of 00:03:37.000 –> 00:03:40.000 hockey? Is it sports? My dad played, you 00:03:40.000 –> 00:03:42.000 know, like college hockey a little bit. And, 00:03:43.000 –> 00:03:44.000 saw a picture of you guys where he’s 00:03:44.000 –> 00:03:46.000 not near as tall as you guys. 00:03:46.000 –> 00:03:49.000 My dad is 05:11. Okay. Chris brother was 00:03:49.000 –> 00:03:51.000 six six kinda like a picture I have 00:03:51.000 –> 00:03:53.000 of you and I. I look like I’m 00:03:53.000 –> 00:03:55.000 five foot four, you know, like, what’s going 00:03:55.000 –> 00:03:57.000 on here, man? This is terrible. So My 00:03:57.000 –> 00:03:59.000 grandpa was six three. So he’s the run 00:03:59.000 –> 00:04:00.000 to the litter. Yeah. You’re six six. Your 00:04:00.000 –> 00:04:03.000 brother’s six three. Six three. Okay. Big dudes. 00:04:03.000 –> 00:04:05.000 Imagine that on skates, even more intimidating. 00:04:06.000 –> 00:04:07.000 What, at what point do you should we 00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:09.000 open some of this stuff? Yeah. Let’s get 00:04:09.000 –> 00:04:11.000 I’ll let you, just grab it. Pick your 00:04:11.000 –> 00:04:12.000 poison. Alright. Let’s do this right here. Figure 00:04:12.000 –> 00:04:13.000 out which one you want. Get it right 00:04:13.000 –> 00:04:14.000 here. There we go. I can get it 00:04:14.000 –> 00:04:17.000 open here. Chris is some good stuff. 00:04:17.000 –> 00:04:19.000 We get a little pour here 00:04:19.000 –> 00:04:21.000 and then, I’ll ship it your way. 00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:26.000 Very good? Thank you, sir. Thank you. 00:04:28.000 –> 00:04:29.000 Cheers, mate. Cheers? Yeah. I’d like to 00:04:33.000 –> 00:04:35.000 smell it. A good stuff. That a good 00:04:35.000 –> 00:04:37.000 stuff. Anyway, back to the 00:04:37.000 –> 00:04:40.000 pre recorded, not pre recorded. The recorded session 00:04:40.000 –> 00:04:41.000 here we’re doing is At what point did 00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:43.000 you know you’re different, man? I mean, obviously, 00:04:43.000 –> 00:04:45.000 playing hockey, you’re a high level. There’s tons 00:04:45.000 –> 00:04:46.000 of good hockey players come from Canada. 00:04:47.000 –> 00:04:48.000 Was there that moment where you thought, man, 00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:50.000 I’m a little different than some of these 00:04:50.000 –> 00:04:50.000 guys? 00:04:50.000 –> 00:04:51.000 I was always, 00:04:52.000 –> 00:04:54.000 you know, growing up on, you know, kids 00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:56.000 my age. I usually played up a a 00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:58.000 a year or two years. Yeah. 00:05:00.000 –> 00:05:01.000 And and, you know, just played it out 00:05:01.000 –> 00:05:04.000 a higher level, if you will. And then 00:05:04.000 –> 00:05:05.000 you you really don’t know, come from a 00:05:05.000 –> 00:05:08.000 small town back then, you know, there’s, again, 00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:10.000 no internet, no real TV where you can, 00:05:10.000 –> 00:05:13.000 other than watch an NHL on hockey night 00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:14.000 in Canada on Saturday nights, 00:05:14.000 –> 00:05:17.000 you weren’t really immersed in it other than 00:05:17.000 –> 00:05:18.000 just who you’re playing against all the time. 00:05:18.000 –> 00:05:20.000 So I didn’t really 00:05:20.000 –> 00:05:22.000 have a good understanding or gauge 00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:24.000 to understand 00:05:25.000 –> 00:05:27.000 where I was at with respect to competition 00:05:27.000 –> 00:05:29.000 levels and and things of that nature. So, 00:05:30.000 –> 00:05:32.000 moved away from home when was fifteen, but 00:05:32.000 –> 00:05:34.000 prior to that, I had a choice to 00:05:34.000 –> 00:05:36.000 make at thirteen. Am I gonna play high 00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:36.000 school hockey, 00:05:37.000 –> 00:05:38.000 or am I gonna go play AAA hockey, 00:05:38.000 –> 00:05:40.000 which my brother played, and you’re driving 00:05:41.000 –> 00:05:43.000 10:12 hours in a bus, and it’s a 00:05:43.000 –> 00:05:44.000 gr you know, it’s a commitment and a 00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:45.000 grind. 00:05:45.000 –> 00:05:47.000 And I was, like, you know, I don’t 00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:49.000 wanna do that. I wanna play I wanna 00:05:49.000 –> 00:05:51.000 be with my friends, and I wanna play 00:05:51.000 –> 00:05:52.000 high school hockey. 00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:54.000 And, you know, there was a little politics 00:05:54.000 –> 00:05:57.000 involved that that I’ll get to later, but 00:05:57.000 –> 00:05:59.000 that was kinda really the first 00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:03.000 foray into the politics politics of sports and 00:06:03.000 –> 00:06:05.000 kinda what can happen 00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:08.000 they were upset that I didn’t go play 00:06:08.000 –> 00:06:10.000 on Chris AAA team. They being your parents? 00:06:10.000 –> 00:06:12.000 No. They being the coaching staff and the 00:06:12.000 –> 00:06:15.000 managers of that team. And their friends, my 00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:16.000 my brother played there, and they were friends 00:06:16.000 –> 00:06:18.000 of my parents, a lot of them. And, 00:06:19.000 –> 00:06:22.000 they we kinda merged two talents together, Kenora, 00:06:22.000 –> 00:06:24.000 and dried, and merged to create this triple 00:06:24.000 –> 00:06:26.000 a team because we were not each city 00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:28.000 was not or town was not AAA. Yeah. 00:06:28.000 –> 00:06:30.000 So we’d go and play in this AAA 00:06:30.000 –> 00:06:32.000 league. And I’m like, oh, I just wanna 00:06:32.000 –> 00:06:34.000 play with my buddies, but but again, 00:06:35.000 –> 00:06:35.000 fourteen, 00:06:36.000 –> 00:06:37.000 thirteen, fourteen, 00:06:37.000 –> 00:06:39.000 turning fifteen, the two years I played high 00:06:39.000 –> 00:06:41.000 school, I’m playing against twenty year olds. So 00:06:41.000 –> 00:06:43.000 I’m I’m playing nineteen, twenty year olds. So 00:06:43.000 –> 00:06:46.000 I’m playing against much older competition 00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:48.000 that have either gone on play junior, and 00:06:48.000 –> 00:06:50.000 I’ll come back. Gonna play high school hockey, 00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:53.000 finish your hockey careers, and go to school 00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:54.000 and do whatever. Right? So you’re you’re playing. 00:06:54.000 –> 00:06:57.000 It’s still against some pretty players. Yep. And 00:06:57.000 –> 00:06:59.000 on our team were players that had played 00:06:59.000 –> 00:07:00.000 in that league, and now they’re back playing 00:07:00.000 –> 00:07:02.000 high school hockey. So we had there was 00:07:02.000 –> 00:07:04.000 a lot of really hockey players that I’m 00:07:04.000 –> 00:07:06.000 playing against at the that age. 00:07:07.000 –> 00:07:09.000 So I’m, you know, I think in grade 00:07:09.000 –> 00:07:11.000 nine. I was six one, grade ten. I 00:07:11.000 –> 00:07:12.000 was six three. So I’m, 00:07:13.000 –> 00:07:14.000 Give me as big as those guys. I’m 00:07:14.000 –> 00:07:16.000 tall. I’m tall. I’m not big. 00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:17.000 Skin’ mouthy. 00:07:19.000 –> 00:07:19.000 But, 00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:21.000 you know, I think understanding 00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:24.000 I just wanted to have a good time. 00:07:24.000 –> 00:07:26.000 I wanted to enjoy my childhood. You know, 00:07:26.000 –> 00:07:27.000 it was a lot of pressure of, you 00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:29.000 know, you’re the best player. You’re Chris. You’re 00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:30.000 that. Yeah. 00:07:31.000 –> 00:07:32.000 And I thought we had a good enough 00:07:32.000 –> 00:07:34.000 team to go play in the Ontario’s where 00:07:34.000 –> 00:07:35.000 you’d go down to Toronto 00:07:36.000 –> 00:07:38.000 and play against the top high schools in 00:07:38.000 –> 00:07:41.000 the in the in the province and gets 00:07:41.000 –> 00:07:42.000 go to that way as opposed to playing 00:07:42.000 –> 00:07:43.000 out west 00:07:43.000 –> 00:07:45.000 were in Ontario, but they’re playing in the 00:07:45.000 –> 00:07:47.000 western. It just it was a, yeah, a 00:07:47.000 –> 00:07:50.000 s assorted deal. And so 00:07:51.000 –> 00:07:52.000 I played high school hockey for these two 00:07:52.000 –> 00:07:53.000 years. We go to the Ontario’s, both years. 00:07:55.000 –> 00:07:56.000 Brett 00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:59.000 seen by some scouts and and get asked 00:07:59.000 –> 00:08:01.000 to go play for this junior tee junior 00:08:01.000 –> 00:08:02.000 b team down in Stratford. 00:08:03.000 –> 00:08:04.000 And 00:08:04.000 –> 00:08:06.000 before I go and do that, I go 00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:07.000 to this summer camp, and they’re doing this 00:08:07.000 –> 00:08:09.000 under sixteen, 00:08:10.000 –> 00:08:13.000 camp to pick Chris, the all Ontario team, 00:08:13.000 –> 00:08:15.000 and I go to this camp, of which 00:08:15.000 –> 00:08:17.000 a lot were on this AAA team. Right. 00:08:18.000 –> 00:08:20.000 And, you know, it was a valuable learning 00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:22.000 for me on a couple fronts, number one, 00:08:22.000 –> 00:08:22.000 the politics. 00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:24.000 Number two, 00:08:24.000 –> 00:08:26.000 I wasn’t in the best shape. I didn’t 00:08:26.000 –> 00:08:28.000 train overly hard preparing 00:08:29.000 –> 00:08:29.000 for this, 00:08:31.000 –> 00:08:32.000 camp. So, 00:08:32.000 –> 00:08:34.000 you know, they said, oh, you know, we’re 00:08:34.000 –> 00:08:36.000 we’re cutting you. And I’m like, 00:08:37.000 –> 00:08:39.000 I’m I’m looking at my Gilliland I’m like, 00:08:39.000 –> 00:08:41.000 how am I getting cut? There’s no way. 00:08:41.000 –> 00:08:43.000 Yeah. But I get cut. 00:08:43.000 –> 00:08:46.000 And one of the scouts that watched me 00:08:46.000 –> 00:08:49.000 that pre that spring playing the All Ontario’s 00:08:50.000 –> 00:08:52.000 had two wild Chris. Now he’s got two 00:08:52.000 –> 00:08:54.000 wild cards for all of Ontario. 00:08:56.000 –> 00:08:58.000 And he’s like, how does this kid get 00:08:58.000 –> 00:08:59.000 cut? And he uses one of his two 00:08:59.000 –> 00:09:01.000 wild cards on me to go to the 00:09:01.000 –> 00:09:02.000 main camp. Wow. 00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:04.000 And I make the team. 00:09:06.000 –> 00:09:08.000 Again, not making the same mistake. 00:09:08.000 –> 00:09:10.000 I’m training now. I’m like, alright. I’m gonna 00:09:10.000 –> 00:09:12.000 train. I learned my lesson that it wasn’t 00:09:12.000 –> 00:09:12.000 prepared. 00:09:13.000 –> 00:09:15.000 Gonna happen again. I’m gonna train. I’m gonna 00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:17.000 prepare. And, you know, he’s that gentleman is 00:09:20.000 –> 00:09:23.000 still of my good friends. The wild card 00:09:23.000 –> 00:09:25.000 guy. The wild card guy, Sheldon Ferguson Ferguson, 00:09:25.000 –> 00:09:26.000 who then went on to scout 00:09:27.000 –> 00:09:29.000 for, central NHL central scouting, and then he 00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:31.000 worked for a number of different, NHL teams 00:09:31.000 –> 00:09:32.000 along the way. 00:09:33.000 –> 00:09:36.000 But still always talk about that circumstance and 00:09:36.000 –> 00:09:37.000 how 00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:39.000 He’s just happened to see if I don’t 00:09:39.000 –> 00:09:40.000 go to the Ontario championships, he doesn’t see 00:09:40.000 –> 00:09:42.000 me, and I don’t get this wallet, you 00:09:42.000 –> 00:09:43.000 know. It’s just who knows where he is. 00:09:43.000 –> 00:09:45.000 So many different. Yeah. I mean, it’s just 00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:47.000 if you don’t that opportunity or someone somebody 00:09:47.000 –> 00:09:48.000 doesn’t go out on a limb for you. 00:09:48.000 –> 00:09:50.000 Yep. You know, you you just never know 00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:51.000 where you’re gonna be. What were your parents 00:09:51.000 –> 00:09:54.000 like during that phase of life? Right? I’m 00:09:54.000 –> 00:09:55.000 picking high school over what they want me 00:09:55.000 –> 00:09:57.000 to do because, you know, in today’s world, 00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:58.000 and obviously you got kids. You know what 00:09:58.000 –> 00:10:00.000 it’s like. But the sports world is nuts. 00:10:00.000 –> 00:10:01.000 No. 00:10:01.000 –> 00:10:02.000 Bean 00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:05.000 Yeah. Miley. Yes. Yes. Miley. 00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:08.000 What were your parents like versus what we 00:10:08.000 –> 00:10:09.000 see parents today? Like, if you’re not on 00:10:09.000 –> 00:10:11.000 that all star if you’re not doing this, 00:10:11.000 –> 00:10:12.000 you’re not, you know, what were they like? 00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:14.000 Because they again, they went two for two 00:10:14.000 –> 00:10:16.000 with two NHL players. I mean, that’s that’s 00:10:16.000 –> 00:10:17.000 amazing. Yeah. I would say, 00:10:18.000 –> 00:10:20.000 you know, my dad was always quiet, always 00:10:20.000 –> 00:10:22.000 sat by himself up in the corner and 00:10:22.000 –> 00:10:23.000 just watched. Yeah. 00:10:24.000 –> 00:10:26.000 My mom was kinda with other parents, you 00:10:26.000 –> 00:10:28.000 know, hooting and hollering, but not, you know, 00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:30.000 getting involved in coaching and doing all that 00:10:30.000 –> 00:10:32.000 stuff. Getting advice and getting kicked. Yeah. Doing 00:10:32.000 –> 00:10:33.000 all that kind of stuff. 00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:36.000 You know, they weren’t car rides. What were 00:10:36.000 –> 00:10:36.000 those like? 00:10:37.000 –> 00:10:40.000 They were pretty quiet. I was pretty intense 00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:41.000 kid kinda preparing 00:10:42.000 –> 00:10:44.000 the way you saw me play is the 00:10:44.000 –> 00:10:45.000 way I played all the time. Okay. That’s 00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:47.000 the only way I know how to play. 00:10:47.000 –> 00:10:48.000 That’s the only way I know how to 00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:49.000 play. Okay. And so 00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:52.000 You know, I was kinda getting myself geeked 00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.000 up for the game. Yep. You know, you’re 00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:55.000 listening to music, you knew whenever, 00:10:56.000 –> 00:10:58.000 whatever music there was back then. Yeah. Not 00:10:58.000 –> 00:10:59.000 in AirPods. 00:10:59.000 –> 00:11:02.000 No. Yeah. No. Listen to Gilliland Oates and 00:11:02.000 –> 00:11:04.000 whatever else. My dad’s all fired up. 00:11:05.000 –> 00:11:08.000 Great tracks. Yeah. Exactly. Listen to Billy Joel 00:11:08.000 –> 00:11:09.000 a track or whatever. 00:11:11.000 –> 00:11:13.000 Not a whole, you know, we’re pretty quiet. 00:11:13.000 –> 00:11:15.000 Yeah. Just, you know, kinda go about business 00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000 do your own thing. And and I love 00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:18.000 that though, man. You know, you you hear 00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:20.000 people talk about car rides, and that’s just 00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:22.000 one way, right, that people don’t wanna play 00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:24.000 sports. Sometimes the car rides home, mom, and 00:11:24.000 –> 00:11:25.000 dad, or, you know, why you miss that 00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:27.000 or do Chris? And Yeah. No. No. There 00:11:27.000 –> 00:11:29.000 was never, I don’t ever remember 00:11:30.000 –> 00:11:33.000 unless I did something not revolve 00:11:34.000 –> 00:11:36.000 around a play or whatever if I did 00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:38.000 something bad. Yeah. Right. You heard about it. 00:11:38.000 –> 00:11:39.000 May or may not have happened. 00:11:41.000 –> 00:11:43.000 No, I never got, well, why didn’t you 00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:44.000 make that pass? Or why didn’t you do 00:11:44.000 –> 00:11:46.000 this? Or why’d you make that player? No. 00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:47.000 I never 00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:49.000 it was, you know, it was just all 00:11:49.000 –> 00:11:51.000 about, as I tell people now. I’m like, 00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:53.000 make sure your kids are having fun. They 00:11:53.000 –> 00:11:55.000 get one chance to be a kid because 00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000 guess what? You’re gonna grow up fast. Yep. 00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:58.000 And they’re out the door and 00:11:59.000 –> 00:12:01.000 you want them in those formative years of 00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000 being a kid, 00:12:02.000 –> 00:12:05.000 being passionate about asport or multiple sports so 00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:08.000 that as they go off high school, college, 00:12:08.000 –> 00:12:09.000 etcetera, 00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:13.000 into normal normal life and are contributing citizens 00:12:13.000 –> 00:12:15.000 to the world, they still do stuff like 00:12:15.000 –> 00:12:17.000 that. They still wanna golf, they still wanna 00:12:17.000 –> 00:12:17.000 play hockey, 00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:21.000 basketball, volleyball, whatever it is, they wanna keep 00:12:22.000 –> 00:12:24.000 maybe not necessarily competing, but playing the sport 00:12:24.000 –> 00:12:26.000 that they love and are passionate about, or 00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000 coaching it, paying it forward and doing these 00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:29.000 other things that you see a lot of, 00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:32.000 former players do. We’re gonna dive into your, 00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000 obviously, your career here in a little bit, 00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:36.000 but but important for us as a firm, 00:12:36.000 –> 00:12:38.000 but also I think just any business person 00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000 listening to this is whether it’s on the 00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000 ice or in the boardroom, 00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000 your values are important. Right? Your culture’s important 00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:45.000 to you. So was there a set of 00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000 values or principles for you that maybe even 00:12:47.000 –> 00:12:48.000 your parents taught you or that you kinda 00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:50.000 formed early on in your career that said, 00:12:50.000 –> 00:12:53.000 this is what I stand for, and this 00:12:53.000 –> 00:12:54.000 is what I’m gonna do. 00:12:55.000 –> 00:12:56.000 You know, I think 00:12:57.000 –> 00:12:59.000 I was always one of the bigger kids, 00:12:59.000 –> 00:13:02.000 tall taller kids. You know, bigger, taller. 00:13:03.000 –> 00:13:04.000 But I always played a certain way. I 00:13:04.000 –> 00:13:06.000 always protected my teammates. I always 00:13:07.000 –> 00:13:08.000 let the other team know, oh, hey, you 00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000 wanna take runs of this guy? Well, you 00:13:10.000 –> 00:13:12.000 better be careful because someone else can be 00:13:12.000 –> 00:13:13.000 taking runs of you. 00:13:14.000 –> 00:13:16.000 You know, and I think hard work and 00:13:16.000 –> 00:13:16.000 and 00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:20.000 adversity, you know, as my career went along, 00:13:20.000 –> 00:13:21.000 I you you 00:13:21.000 –> 00:13:22.000 sense 00:13:23.000 –> 00:13:25.000 and learn from the very adversities that you 00:13:25.000 –> 00:13:27.000 face, the decisions you gotta make. 00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000 I’ve had plenty of decisions, whether it’s going 00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:31.000 to play junior, whether it’s going to play 00:13:31.000 –> 00:13:33.000 AAA or high school, whether it’s going to 00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:36.000 play major junior or college. I mean, just, 00:13:36.000 –> 00:13:37.000 you know, 00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:39.000 asking for trades, doing all these things. Like, 00:13:39.000 –> 00:13:41.000 you have you’re forced to really 00:13:42.000 –> 00:13:44.000 Stick to your guns. And, alright. 00:13:45.000 –> 00:13:47.000 You know, there’s some moments where I did 00:13:47.000 –> 00:13:47.000 not 00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:50.000 stick to my guns that I’m like, why 00:13:50.000 –> 00:13:51.000 did I not? 00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000 Why did I cave and why, you know, 00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000 it just if you have a core set 00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:56.000 of principles and you 00:13:57.000 –> 00:14:00.000 know who you are, and and you have 00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:01.000 a firm belief in that, you need to 00:14:01.000 –> 00:14:04.000 stick your guns. And there’s a couple times 00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:05.000 where I 00:14:05.000 –> 00:14:08.000 wouldn’t say I got bullied or talked into 00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:09.000 it. Just 00:14:09.000 –> 00:14:11.000 was told to you, you know, maybe you 00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:12.000 should go do this or that. And I’m 00:14:12.000 –> 00:14:14.000 like, well, I wish I’d have already did 00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000 that. Yeah. Because it’s not. I 00:14:16.000 –> 00:14:18.000 I got asked to tell the owner one 00:14:18.000 –> 00:14:19.000 time in Saint Chris, 00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:21.000 sorry for making a play that I got 00:14:21.000 –> 00:14:22.000 suspended on. 00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:25.000 Like, why? Why? Why? Why do I need 00:14:25.000 –> 00:14:26.000 to apologize for that? 00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:29.000 That’s who I am. That’s how I play. 00:14:29.000 –> 00:14:31.000 Right. You love how I play. Yeah. So 00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:33.000 why am I still here? That’s why I’m 00:14:33.000 –> 00:14:34.000 here. You know, and I’m just like, well, 00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:36.000 why am I apologizing? I think that’s normal. 00:14:36.000 –> 00:14:38.000 Right? I mean, you think about even from 00:14:38.000 –> 00:14:39.000 a work standpoint? Oh, I kinda have good 00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:42.000 on that road. I kinda haphazardly just said, 00:14:42.000 –> 00:14:42.000 I’m sorry. But 00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:46.000 Yeah. I’m not I don’t mean it. You 00:14:46.000 –> 00:14:47.000 know, great. You told me to do it. 00:14:47.000 –> 00:14:48.000 Okay. I did it. But I don’t mean 00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:51.000 it. Yeah. Because I’m not sorry. Right. Right. 00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:53.000 I’m sorry I got caught. 00:14:54.000 –> 00:14:56.000 But when I read eight suspensions, is that 00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000 what I heard? Eight. Yes. Hate suspensions. 00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:00.000 What was the best one? 00:15:02.000 –> 00:15:04.000 There were a few. There were a few 00:15:04.000 –> 00:15:06.000 good ones. You know what? I I learned 00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:10.000 early in my childhood to be unpredictable. Gilliland 00:15:11.000 –> 00:15:12.000 whether that’s you’re gonna take the puck, whether 00:15:12.000 –> 00:15:14.000 that’s you’re gonna hit them, whether that’s you’re 00:15:14.000 –> 00:15:15.000 gonna spear them, whether you’re gonna slash them, 00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000 cross check them, whatever, 00:15:18.000 –> 00:15:19.000 in the grid the errors of the rule 00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:20.000 book. 00:15:20.000 –> 00:15:21.000 Mhmm. 00:15:21.000 –> 00:15:24.000 That keeping people unpredictable that just that indecisiveness 00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:24.000 in their head is gonna give you just 00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:24.000 enough time to 00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:30.000 make play, take the puck. 00:15:30.000 –> 00:15:32.000 They’re gonna be a little leery as to 00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:34.000 what you’re gonna do, and I could be 00:15:34.000 –> 00:15:35.000 honest with you sometimes. I didn’t know what 00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:38.000 I was gonna do. This is a re 00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000 action. It’s a spur of the moment. You’re 00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:42.000 laying on. Yeah. Boom. But I think there’s 00:15:42.000 –> 00:15:44.000 people that, like, they like the hit. Right? 00:15:44.000 –> 00:15:45.000 I think of my oldest son, like, he 00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:47.000 likes the hit. Even he’s playing soccer. He’s 00:15:47.000 –> 00:15:49.000 not playing, but but, like, I was a 00:15:49.000 –> 00:15:50.000 guy. I didn’t like to hit. Like, I 00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:52.000 didn’t want that company. He’s probably why I 00:15:52.000 –> 00:15:53.000 played golf. Right? But 00:15:54.000 –> 00:15:55.000 do you think do you agree with that? 00:15:55.000 –> 00:15:56.000 I mean, people like to hit? Oh, absolutely. 00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000 There’s, you know, when you see game start 00:15:59.000 –> 00:16:01.000 and you’re like, you either wanna get hit 00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:04.000 or get hit. Yeah. Just to absorb, get 00:16:04.000 –> 00:16:05.000 into the game, get the feel of it. 00:16:05.000 –> 00:16:08.000 Alright. We’re good now. Yeah. Just get that 00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000 first one to get started. Alright. Now. 00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:14.000 Going. I was doing some butterflies, and get 00:16:14.000 –> 00:16:15.000 that 00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:17.000 I Brett some research last night. Watch some 00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:19.000 videos. I you said something on a podcast 00:16:19.000 –> 00:16:21.000 or some TV thing you’re on, and it 00:16:21.000 –> 00:16:23.000 said you you predicted be a hundred plus 00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:24.000 concussions? If you’re looking at what they consider 00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:25.000 a concussion now. Yeah. I 00:16:30.000 –> 00:16:30.000 would 00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:33.000 I would probably guess. You know? 00:16:34.000 –> 00:16:36.000 I can count ones where 00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000 if you were looking at 00:16:39.000 –> 00:16:40.000 a baseline concussion of, 00:16:41.000 –> 00:16:43.000 you know, either it got knocked out or 00:16:43.000 –> 00:16:44.000 you’re seeing stars, you know, like a legit, 00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:45.000 you know, head trauma. You’re talking 00:16:50.000 –> 00:16:50.000 Twenty? 00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:52.000 Like that. And then, 00:16:53.000 –> 00:16:54.000 you know, seeing seeing stars, you bell rung 00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:54.000 and all the all those buzz words that 00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:54.000 you 00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000 to hear. They’re like, don’t worry about it. 00:17:00.000 –> 00:17:02.000 Or I get a stinger. You know, your 00:17:02.000 –> 00:17:03.000 tip’s your head, but it’s your neck, but 00:17:03.000 –> 00:17:05.000 it’s your shoulder. You know, what is it? 00:17:06.000 –> 00:17:08.000 You know, there was so many different buzzwords 00:17:08.000 –> 00:17:10.000 to kinda take it away from 00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000 your head. Yeah. That 00:17:13.000 –> 00:17:15.000 I, you know, over the span of playing 00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:16.000 hockey thirty 00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000 Let’s see here. Thirty years or so? Eighteen 00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:23.000 in the NHL. Right. Thirty three. Yeah. 00:17:23.000 –> 00:17:25.000 Nineteen in the NHL. I mean, 00:17:25.000 –> 00:17:27.000 Yeah. I would, you know, you bang your 00:17:27.000 –> 00:17:28.000 head off the glass. You get hit. You 00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:30.000 know, there’s a couple times. You remember, we 00:17:30.000 –> 00:17:31.000 Brett banging my head off the glass on 00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:32.000 a hit. 00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:34.000 You know, you pass a puck and you’re 00:17:34.000 –> 00:17:36.000 trying to Brett yourself just, you know, you 00:17:36.000 –> 00:17:37.000 get hit by a big guy and you’re 00:17:38.000 –> 00:17:39.000 you’re hitting the guy and your head hits 00:17:39.000 –> 00:17:40.000 the glass. 00:17:42.000 –> 00:17:44.000 You’ve you’ve you don’t 00:17:44.000 –> 00:17:47.000 lose consciousness, but you’re you can feel it 00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:50.000 for a second or two. You’re like, okay. 00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:52.000 Talk about that moment we Brett hit in 00:17:52.000 –> 00:17:53.000 the chest. You know, the puck hits you, 00:17:53.000 –> 00:17:55.000 you go down. I watched that video last 00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000 night. That was just scary as hell just 00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:58.000 watching the video, and I knew you survived 00:17:58.000 –> 00:17:59.000 it, but I’m like, in that moment, I 00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:01.000 came imagine. Yeah. I I 00:18:01.000 –> 00:18:04.000 when the whole Demar Hamlin thing happened, you 00:18:05.000 –> 00:18:07.000 you know, obviously got Yeah. That got just 00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:09.000 stood off and and, you know, being the 00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000 first one that it actually happened to. 00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:14.000 I’m, you know, kinda relived it a little 00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:14.000 bit more and 00:18:15.000 –> 00:18:17.000 When it happens to you, that young in 00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:17.000 your career, 00:18:19.000 –> 00:18:21.000 you know, the the internet was still not 00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:23.000 really. The internet Yeah. Wasn’t it was ninety 00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:23.000 eight 00:18:24.000 –> 00:18:26.000 ish, I think. Yeah. Main ninety eight. 00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:28.000 There was not a lot of information out 00:18:28.000 –> 00:18:30.000 there. There was not, 00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:32.000 you know, dial up internet and all that 00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:34.000 kind of stuff. It’s just you’re not researching 00:18:34.000 –> 00:18:35.000 all that web I don’t even know if 00:18:35.000 –> 00:18:37.000 it was born yet. Well, he’s been dead 00:18:37.000 –> 00:18:39.000 if you went to WebMD. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. 00:18:40.000 –> 00:18:42.000 Same symptom for everything. Yeah. But 00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000 You know, I I started to really research 00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000 and understand. 00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:48.000 I was actually 00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000 closer to death than maybe a thought 00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000 as I talked to the trainer and talked 00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:57.000 about what what I actually did have? Cause 00:18:57.000 –> 00:19:00.000 I never really I didn’t really wanna know. 00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:02.000 I’m just like, I just wanted to know 00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:04.000 from the doctor. Can it happen again? Right. 00:19:04.000 –> 00:19:07.000 Are there any short term, long term effects 00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:08.000 if I go back to play. 00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:10.000 And and once she cleared me of all 00:19:10.000 –> 00:19:12.000 that, and she’s like, no. This is just 00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:13.000 a random freak thing that 00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:16.000 follow those things line up again. It can 00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:17.000 happen, but the sequencing 00:19:18.000 –> 00:19:19.000 has to be perfect. Yeah. 00:19:19.000 –> 00:19:21.000 And the way it hits you has to 00:19:21.000 –> 00:19:23.000 be perfect and where it hits you. 00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000 So I’m like, well, I just didn’t wanna 00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:27.000 know. So I start to ask the trainer. 00:19:27.000 –> 00:19:29.000 I’m like, so I get hit with a 00:19:29.000 –> 00:19:30.000 puck, a block shot. I gave it with 00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:32.000 a puck, and we’re killing a penalty. 00:19:33.000 –> 00:19:35.000 And I was, like, kinda stung in Rindy 00:19:35.000 –> 00:19:37.000 Troy, so I’m, like, 00:19:37.000 –> 00:19:39.000 In my hand, I’m like, cover the puck 00:19:39.000 –> 00:19:40.000 up, get a whistle, and then get to 00:19:40.000 –> 00:19:42.000 the bench. Don’t let these people see it 00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000 down here. Yeah. Because they’re gonna be all 00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:45.000 over you. Alright. 00:19:46.000 –> 00:19:48.000 So in my hand, I do all that, 00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:51.000 but then I must have blacked out. Like, 00:19:51.000 –> 00:19:53.000 you kinda see I’m kind of Yeah. I’m 00:19:53.000 –> 00:19:55.000 gonna go down. Stumblebee tuna right after I 00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:57.000 get and take a stride, then boom, I’m 00:19:57.000 –> 00:19:59.000 down. Thank god. I had my hands in 00:19:59.000 –> 00:20:01.000 front of me. I would’ve broke my face. 00:20:01.000 –> 00:20:04.000 And I I wake up, and, you know, 00:20:04.000 –> 00:20:05.000 I’m in the middle of the ice. My 00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000 stuff’s open 00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:08.000 all my stuffs off. And I look over 00:20:08.000 –> 00:20:10.000 to our bench. People are crying, and I’m 00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:12.000 just like, what’s going on here? So you 00:20:12.000 –> 00:20:13.000 had your wherewithal. I mean, you knew what 00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:15.000 was Once I woke up, I did. So 00:20:15.000 –> 00:20:18.000 then as this whole Lamar Hamlett thing happened, 00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:19.000 I started talking to the trainer. I’m like, 00:20:19.000 –> 00:20:21.000 so because I kept getting asked about it. 00:20:21.000 –> 00:20:23.000 And I was I don’t know. You know, 00:20:23.000 –> 00:20:25.000 it kinda just happened. To know, but I 00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000 really didn’t. 00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:28.000 So I started asking. I’m like, so what 00:20:28.000 –> 00:20:30.000 exactly did happen? 00:20:30.000 –> 00:20:31.000 I was like, well, you know, we got 00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:32.000 out there. 00:20:32.000 –> 00:20:33.000 You weren’t breathing. 00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:37.000 You know, your lips were kinda panicked. 00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:39.000 No defibrillator. 00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:42.000 Back then, they had no defibrillators in the 00:20:42.000 –> 00:20:42.000 building. 00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:45.000 The ambulance was just a cart. It was 00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:47.000 basically just to to get you to the 00:20:47.000 –> 00:20:49.000 hospital. It wasn’t there was nothing in it. 00:20:49.000 –> 00:20:50.000 That could help you. 00:20:53.000 –> 00:20:55.000 And so here was starting to panic. My 00:20:55.000 –> 00:20:56.000 lips were starting to turn a little bit 00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000 blue. He was like, yeah. We were just 00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000 getting ready to give you mouth to mouth 00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:01.000 when you 00:21:01.000 –> 00:21:03.000 kinda came to and took a Brett. And 00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:04.000 they were like, 00:21:04.000 –> 00:21:05.000 Wow. 00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:07.000 Because they were they were just getting a 00:21:07.000 –> 00:21:09.000 little nervous. I think I had, like, fifteen, 00:21:09.000 –> 00:21:11.000 twenty seconds without breathing. And, 00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:14.000 you know, unlike ham on. I think it 00:21:14.000 –> 00:21:16.000 was, like, eight or nine minutes. Yeah. So 00:21:16.000 –> 00:21:18.000 they they were and and then since then, 00:21:18.000 –> 00:21:20.000 so then I went to hospital, did all 00:21:20.000 –> 00:21:22.000 that. And since then, right, right after that 00:21:22.000 –> 00:21:24.000 incident, they had fibrillators in the all the 00:21:25.000 –> 00:21:27.000 buildings. Mhmm. They’ve, you know, retrofitted or fixed 00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:29.000 the ambulance situation. 00:21:29.000 –> 00:21:31.000 And three years after that, Yuri Fisher with 00:21:31.000 –> 00:21:33.000 the Detroit Wed rings had a heart attack 00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:34.000 on the bench 00:21:34.000 –> 00:21:36.000 or right in front of the bench. And 00:21:36.000 –> 00:21:39.000 they also had the doctors way up in 00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:39.000 the top. Oh, yeah. 00:21:40.000 –> 00:21:42.000 And and after that incident, they had the 00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:43.000 doctors right behind the bench. 00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000 And fortunate enough for Yuri Fisher, the doctor 00:21:46.000 –> 00:21:48.000 was right behind the bench, came off the 00:21:48.000 –> 00:21:50.000 bench, came out, start give him out the 00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:52.000 mouth, give him the 00:21:52.000 –> 00:21:54.000 defibrillator and save his life. Save his life. 00:21:54.000 –> 00:21:54.000 But, so I 00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:59.000 that that happens. I’m in the hospital. I’m 00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:01.000 I’m wearing a heart monitor for twenty four 00:22:01.000 –> 00:22:04.000 hours tracking it, doing all that. And, again, 00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:05.000 ask the doctor if, you know, is there 00:22:05.000 –> 00:22:06.000 any 00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000 long term short term side effects if I 00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:08.000 play. 00:22:09.000 –> 00:22:10.000 And she’s like, no. 00:22:11.000 –> 00:22:12.000 So I I’ve thought about Demar Ham. So 00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000 I wanted to rip the band aid off 00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000 fast. Right. Basically. Brett right back. So how 00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000 long did you set out? A a day? 00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:19.000 I just No. So even, like, the next 00:22:19.000 –> 00:22:20.000 day, you’re in the next day. So we 00:22:20.000 –> 00:22:22.000 played a I don’t know. Let’s just say 00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000 that was a Tuesday? Yeah. Played on Thursday. 00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000 Oh, wow. So I stayed in the hospital 00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000 Tuesday night in Detroit, 00:22:27.000 –> 00:22:29.000 flew back on Wednesday, 00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000 did all these tests, wore the heart monitor, 00:22:33.000 –> 00:22:34.000 did all that. 00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:36.000 Got up in the morning, went back to 00:22:36.000 –> 00:22:37.000 the doctor. 00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000 Got checked out again. She looked at the 00:22:41.000 –> 00:22:41.000 monitor. 00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:43.000 The heart monitor that is, 00:22:44.000 –> 00:22:45.000 did a battery of tests against, sat down 00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:47.000 with her, talk to her. 00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:49.000 You know, still not knowing whether gonna play, 00:22:49.000 –> 00:22:51.000 but I prepared the night before like I 00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000 was gonna play. Just you never know. Yeah. 00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000 And then, 00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:58.000 And then went down to the rank at, 00:22:58.000 –> 00:22:59.000 like, 04:30. 00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000 I think we had a seven, maybe a 00:23:01.000 –> 00:23:03.000 07:30 game. Went down to the rank at 00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:04.000 04:30, and just, like, I got cleared to 00:23:04.000 –> 00:23:06.000 play. So I’ll take up, see how I 00:23:06.000 –> 00:23:06.000 feel. 00:23:07.000 –> 00:23:09.000 And, well, you know, once once you put 00:23:09.000 –> 00:23:11.000 your equipment on It’s a good time. For 00:23:11.000 –> 00:23:11.000 me. 00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000 I’m not taking that shit Yeah. It’s not 00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:15.000 it’s 00:23:15.000 –> 00:23:17.000 not happening. Right. I’m like, once it’s on 00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:18.000 You get to cut it off me again. 00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:20.000 Well, I’m not sitting now. If if I 00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000 can if I can go out there and 00:23:22.000 –> 00:23:24.000 do warm up and do all the time. 00:23:24.000 –> 00:23:26.000 My might as well play. Right. And I 00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:29.000 hate sitting upstairs. It sucks. Yeah. So 00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:32.000 So, boy She just went back in and 00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000 there was her nerves. Oh, yeah. There was 00:23:34.000 –> 00:23:35.000 nerves. You know, you again, to to the 00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:37.000 point, do you wanna get hit, or you 00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:38.000 wanna hit somebody, like, right 00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:41.000 And, you know, just, the water flies and 00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:43.000 the energy of coming out to the, out 00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:44.000 to the rain, you know, you take warm 00:23:44.000 –> 00:23:45.000 up and, you know, not everybody’s in the 00:23:45.000 –> 00:23:48.000 building. Yeah. Playoff game, playing Detroit, So it’s 00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:50.000 just crazy. Yeah. And, 00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:52.000 and then I come out for 00:23:54.000 –> 00:23:56.000 intros and come out, you know, to the 00:23:56.000 –> 00:23:59.000 building electric and going bananas, and then, you 00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:00.000 know, I come out. I was, like, one 00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000 of one of the last couple guys I 00:24:02.000 –> 00:24:03.000 would always and 00:24:03.000 –> 00:24:05.000 fancy erupted and all that kind of stuff 00:24:05.000 –> 00:24:06.000 pretty cool. It brings it home. Oh, yeah. 00:24:06.000 –> 00:24:08.000 Alright. Let’s go. Well, you get and then 00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:10.000 you get the butterflies, like, alright. Let’s get 00:24:10.000 –> 00:24:12.000 the Band Aid ripped off and hit somebody 00:24:12.000 –> 00:24:15.000 somebody hit me, let’s get this out of 00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:17.000 the way so we can get past this. 00:24:17.000 –> 00:24:18.000 So in sports, I think for fans, I’m 00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:21.000 curious always to talk to players on it’s 00:24:21.000 –> 00:24:22.000 as big a deal for you guys. So 00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000 there’s the rivalries. Right? There’s there’s games that 00:24:24.000 –> 00:24:27.000 mean more than than most. Obviously, playoffs always 00:24:27.000 –> 00:24:29.000 do. But did you treat those differently, or 00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:31.000 did did your mind go differently when you 00:24:31.000 –> 00:24:33.000 were playing a certain robbery for the different 00:24:33.000 –> 00:24:33.000 teams? 00:24:34.000 –> 00:24:35.000 Like, you know, cubs cards in baseball. Right? 00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:37.000 Like, there’s that thing. Did that matter to 00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:39.000 you? Oh, yeah. For sure. You the the 00:24:39.000 –> 00:24:42.000 team’s in your division. Yeah. And back then, 00:24:42.000 –> 00:24:43.000 you gotta remember, you pay you played those 00:24:43.000 –> 00:24:45.000 guys eight times. Mhmm. You know, the the 00:24:45.000 –> 00:24:47.000 schedule has since changed in you know, you 00:24:47.000 –> 00:24:48.000 don’t play 00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:51.000 against those teams as much. You know, you’re 00:24:51.000 –> 00:24:52.000 playing four home games, four road games, and 00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:54.000 then you’re playing the team typically in the 00:24:54.000 –> 00:24:55.000 playoffs and 00:24:55.000 –> 00:24:57.000 You know, you’re playing on sat possibly seven 00:24:57.000 –> 00:24:59.000 times and you’re playing it. You know, the 00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:01.000 next rival you’re playing seven times, it just 00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:04.000 you know, those 00:25:05.000 –> 00:25:07.000 the hatred between the teams 00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:08.000 intensifies 00:25:09.000 –> 00:25:10.000 with each playoff 00:25:13.000 –> 00:25:14.000 round that you play and we play Detroit 00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000 four years in a row. 00:25:16.000 –> 00:25:17.000 This was 00:25:18.000 –> 00:25:18.000 ninety 00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:23.000 Ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven. This is, 00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:24.000 like, ninety eight. This is this is a 00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:26.000 fourth year in a rural plant. Yeah. You 00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000 know, near the Okay. Here we go again. 00:25:28.000 –> 00:25:29.000 Here we go again. 00:25:29.000 –> 00:25:32.000 And so, you know, it’s just that rivalry, 00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:32.000 the 00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:35.000 the feuds between the play years and, you 00:25:35.000 –> 00:25:37.000 know, all the different things that happened over 00:25:37.000 –> 00:25:39.000 years. We hadn’t beaten them. They Brett us 00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000 every year. 00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:42.000 You know, so it was 00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000 It was getting intense. Yeah. When you get 00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:46.000 a lot of The hits, you get a 00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:46.000 little harder. 00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:49.000 You know, and you’re sick of losing, you 00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:51.000 know, getting pissed off. Yeah. Alright. Well, I’m 00:25:51.000 –> 00:25:52.000 gonna get my pound watch. 00:25:53.000 –> 00:25:55.000 Did you ever have one of those, guys 00:25:55.000 –> 00:25:56.000 that you couldn’t stand playing against? But then 00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:58.000 they became a teammate. Did that ever happen? 00:25:58.000 –> 00:26:00.000 You’re always gonna run down. I’m sure I 00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:01.000 was that guy for a lot of people 00:26:01.000 –> 00:26:03.000 You know, you you play against players, you 00:26:03.000 –> 00:26:06.000 know, you you recognize they’re good. Yep. And 00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:07.000 you’re like, okay. You’re not gonna be good 00:26:07.000 –> 00:26:09.000 against me. You’re just, you 00:26:10.000 –> 00:26:11.000 know, you just try to get in the 00:26:11.000 –> 00:26:13.000 kitchen and you try to, 00:26:13.000 –> 00:26:15.000 you know, it’s when you’re a defenseman, it’s 00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:17.000 different because if you’re a forward and you 00:26:17.000 –> 00:26:19.000 beat me once, you might score ones. 00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:21.000 There it is. You’ve done your job. Yeah. 00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000 You did your one thing. Yeah. You know, 00:26:23.000 –> 00:26:25.000 so I’ve gotta be a hundred percent all 00:26:25.000 –> 00:26:26.000 the time. Yep. 00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:27.000 And so 00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:30.000 I would, you know, rivalry games, playoffs. He 00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:31.000 just 00:26:31.000 –> 00:26:34.000 I would treat rivalry games like playoffs, where 00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000 you’re kinda ramping it up. You’re 00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:37.000 you know, a good chance you’re gonna meet 00:26:37.000 –> 00:26:39.000 them in the playoffs or anything. We’re gonna 00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000 Well, you probably feel We’re gonna let you 00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:42.000 know what you’re in for. And the crowds 00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:45.000 jacked up. Everybody. Okay. It’s 00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:49.000 blackhawks, blues, you know. It’s just, you know, 00:26:49.000 –> 00:26:51.000 a little different. Yeah. A little different than, 00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:53.000 a normal game. And as you, you know, 00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:54.000 and then when you start, you know, and 00:26:54.000 –> 00:26:55.000 then it was the sharks, because we played 00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:56.000 them two or three years in a row 00:26:56.000 –> 00:26:58.000 in the playoffs. So just as you play 00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:01.000 somebody in the playoffs, those rivalries get heated. 00:27:01.000 –> 00:27:04.000 And Yeah. Talk about the, the Olympics versus 00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:07.000 the Stanley Chris. Stanley cup play or Stanley 00:27:07.000 –> 00:27:07.000 cup finals. 00:27:08.000 –> 00:27:10.000 What was the big difference there for you? 00:27:10.000 –> 00:27:10.000 Well, 00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:13.000 Both are awesome. 00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:14.000 Both, 00:27:15.000 –> 00:27:16.000 you know, to get to a Stanley Cup 00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:20.000 final takes a lot of grit and determination, 00:27:20.000 –> 00:27:20.000 luck. 00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:23.000 Chemistry, 00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:24.000 teamwork. 00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:26.000 You know, it’s nine to ten months of 00:27:27.000 –> 00:27:27.000 being in the same fight with the same 00:27:27.000 –> 00:27:28.000 guys over and over and over. The 00:27:30.000 –> 00:27:32.000 up the downs, university. 00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000 You know, you get into an Olympic situation. 00:27:34.000 –> 00:27:35.000 It’s too many 00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:40.000 maybe two and a half weeks. Yeah. You’re 00:27:40.000 –> 00:27:41.000 throwing together. 00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:43.000 You know, and and for Canada, it’s a 00:27:43.000 –> 00:27:45.000 lot different than a lot of these other 00:27:45.000 –> 00:27:47.000 countries. We don’t have a national program 00:27:48.000 –> 00:27:50.000 where guys go back and skate the summers 00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:52.000 and go and, you know, play in the 00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:55.000 US development program Gilliland and have played together, 00:27:55.000 –> 00:27:57.000 we’re always playing against other in junior, you 00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000 know, in different junior programs, you’re always playing 00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:02.000 against each other. You’re never playing together. And 00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000 so 00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:04.000 those, 00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000 those teams 00:28:06.000 –> 00:28:08.000 have a little bit better chemistry typically coming 00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:09.000 out of the gate because they’ve all played 00:28:09.000 –> 00:28:11.000 it with each other at some point. Yeah. 00:28:11.000 –> 00:28:13.000 And they’re familiar with the one. We hate 00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:14.000 each other. 00:28:14.000 –> 00:28:16.000 We all wanna beat each other up, but 00:28:16.000 –> 00:28:17.000 now for two and a half weeks. Yeah. 00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000 So now for two and a half weeks, 00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:19.000 you gotta kind of 00:28:20.000 –> 00:28:22.000 let your buy guns be buy Gilliland, 00:28:22.000 –> 00:28:24.000 and come together as a group. And, 00:28:25.000 –> 00:28:27.000 you know, it’s and sometimes it works, and 00:28:27.000 –> 00:28:29.000 sometimes it doesn’t. Yeah. And sometimes just the 00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000 industry is not there. Like, 00:28:32.000 –> 00:28:34.000 for us in in o six, in Italy, 00:28:35.000 –> 00:28:37.000 it just we just did not have good 00:28:37.000 –> 00:28:38.000 mastery. It was kind of the changing of 00:28:38.000 –> 00:28:40.000 the guard. We had ninety eight and o 00:28:40.000 –> 00:28:41.000 two were 00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:43.000 a lot of the same players. O two 00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:44.000 and ten. Right? 00:28:44.000 –> 00:28:46.000 And and then in o six, they choose, 00:28:46.000 –> 00:28:48.000 you know, some guys were retiring, and and 00:28:48.000 –> 00:28:50.000 we had a we had a different group 00:28:50.000 –> 00:28:52.000 of players. It just was a 00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:54.000 was 00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000 I don’t know. I didn’t think they they 00:28:57.000 –> 00:28:59.000 either they didn’t coach or they didn’t 00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:00.000 pick the 00:29:01.000 –> 00:29:03.000 makeup of the team. It just didn’t. I 00:29:03.000 –> 00:29:05.000 didn’t feel like our chemistry was that good. 00:29:05.000 –> 00:29:07.000 But you played for four? Four. So at 00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:09.000 ninety eight was the first year we could 00:29:09.000 –> 00:29:09.000 play. 00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:10.000 In Nagano, 00:29:11.000 –> 00:29:13.000 and Gretzky was on the team, 00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:14.000 and 00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:17.000 I learned a lot from that year because 00:29:17.000 –> 00:29:19.000 we played not to lose. Okay. Like, we 00:29:19.000 –> 00:29:19.000 were 00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000 just the way we played, it just wasn’t 00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:24.000 we weren’t lay leaving it all out there. 00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000 We weren’t putting our foot on the gas. 00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:27.000 It was like, alright. 00:29:28.000 –> 00:29:30.000 What can we do? Okay. Let’s massage and 00:29:30.000 –> 00:29:31.000 let’s go win. Yep. 00:29:31.000 –> 00:29:33.000 And it it didn’t feel like we were 00:29:33.000 –> 00:29:35.000 getting better. We were just winning. 00:29:35.000 –> 00:29:37.000 We’re finding a way to win versus 00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:40.000 getting better. Yeah. Just on talent and, you 00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000 know, our our skill. Yep. And not our 00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:45.000 teamwork and not things like that that get 00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:46.000 better as you get more comfortable with one 00:29:46.000 –> 00:29:47.000 one another. 00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:48.000 And, 00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:50.000 you know, we lost in a shoot out 00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000 to the check team 00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000 in the semi finals. And it was, like, 00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000 you know, it was for us at that 00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:57.000 time. It was, like, gold or bust, gold 00:29:57.000 –> 00:29:58.000 or Brett. And 00:29:59.000 –> 00:30:00.000 we lost that game, and it was, like, 00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:01.000 it was over. 00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000 And we still had a bronze medal game. 00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:06.000 We didn’t even show up. Like, it was 00:30:06.000 –> 00:30:08.000 just brutal. Right. No. We lost the Finland 00:30:08.000 –> 00:30:09.000 in that game, and it was like, you 00:30:09.000 –> 00:30:11.000 know, why do we care at this point? 00:30:11.000 –> 00:30:12.000 Well, you know, as you think back and 00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000 you look at it, you’re like, I wish 00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:16.000 we would’ve would’ve been nice to say. I 00:30:16.000 –> 00:30:18.000 got two Gilliland a bronze. Yeah. You know, 00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:21.000 but was just the mentality in the mindset 00:30:21.000 –> 00:30:22.000 was gold medal. 00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:24.000 The only thing I wanna we gotta win 00:30:24.000 –> 00:30:25.000 is a goal, just the pressure of of 00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:30.000 air of the expectations, and then just of 00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:33.000 how we managed and handled things was not 00:30:33.000 –> 00:30:33.000 great. 00:30:33.000 –> 00:30:34.000 And then in o two, we got off 00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:34.000 to a crappy start. We got 00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:39.000 in our first game by Sweden. I think 00:30:39.000 –> 00:30:41.000 it was, like, six two or something. I 00:30:41.000 –> 00:30:42.000 mean, and they dominated us. 00:30:43.000 –> 00:30:44.000 But from that game, 00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:48.000 we got better and better We made a 00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:49.000 few adjustments, 00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:50.000 change the goalie, 00:30:51.000 –> 00:30:51.000 change, 00:30:53.000 –> 00:30:55.000 you know, move some d d around, change 00:30:55.000 –> 00:30:56.000 lines a little bit. You know, you just 00:30:57.000 –> 00:30:59.000 you’re looking for the right combinations, you’re looking 00:30:59.000 –> 00:31:00.000 for the right chemistry, 00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:03.000 and we got better. Each game, you could 00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:04.000 see us trending 00:31:04.000 –> 00:31:06.000 and getting better and better and better. 00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:09.000 And and from that, you could see, okay, 00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:11.000 this is how what we did wrong in 00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:13.000 ninety eight, we’re not doing that in 00:31:14.000 –> 00:31:16.000 We were winning, not great. We weren’t we 00:31:16.000 –> 00:31:18.000 weren’t playing great teams, you know, because you’re 00:31:18.000 –> 00:31:20.000 still, like, playing Germany and playing some of 00:31:20.000 –> 00:31:21.000 these teams at the time that weren’t very 00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:22.000 good. 00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000 And you’re working your way up. 00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000 And as that chemistry, 00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000 we we got through, then we got through 00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:31.000 the semi Gilliland then we played the US 00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:32.000 in the finals, and we were running all 00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:35.000 cylinders and confident and Yep. They had no 00:31:35.000 –> 00:31:37.000 chance. No. I think we beat them five 00:31:37.000 –> 00:31:39.000 two. So when you think about that. So 00:31:39.000 –> 00:31:40.000 you talked about chemistry and culture and all 00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:41.000 that makes me think about. So when you 00:31:41.000 –> 00:31:43.000 play for the blues, and we’ll go the 00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000 steamy cup in a minute. But we play 00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000 you play for the blues, you had the 00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:48.000 big c, right? The captain on Jersey. What 00:31:48.000 –> 00:31:50.000 what did that mean to you? What did 00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000 that mean for you in the locker room 00:31:51.000 –> 00:31:53.000 as a leader? Because again, I in this 00:31:53.000 –> 00:31:55.000 podcast, we got tons of business people to 00:31:55.000 –> 00:31:57.000 listen. Right? And so tying that, if can 00:31:57.000 –> 00:31:58.000 look at it from that lens and what 00:31:58.000 –> 00:32:00.000 that means to the man or woman running 00:32:00.000 –> 00:32:02.000 a company right now that the big c 00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:04.000 on their suit code or whatever. What’s mean 00:32:04.000 –> 00:32:05.000 to them? 00:32:05.000 –> 00:32:06.000 Yeah. It’s, 00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:10.000 you know, I think in in sports, 00:32:10.000 –> 00:32:13.000 it’s it’s a little bit different in than 00:32:13.000 –> 00:32:13.000 business. 00:32:14.000 –> 00:32:17.000 But it’s the same. Yeah. Right. And and, 00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:19.000 you know, everybody looks at the the captain 00:32:19.000 –> 00:32:20.000 and, like, alright, he’s the guy in the 00:32:20.000 –> 00:32:22.000 locker room the glue. He’s the guy holding 00:32:22.000 –> 00:32:23.000 everybody accountable. 00:32:24.000 –> 00:32:25.000 It’s a little bit more than that. You 00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:25.000 need a group. You 00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:30.000 need core group of leaders 00:32:31.000 –> 00:32:33.000 that can’t always be the captain Right. Getting 00:32:33.000 –> 00:32:34.000 in people’s faces, 00:32:35.000 –> 00:32:36.000 you know, holding people accountable, 00:32:37.000 –> 00:32:39.000 pulling people aside, just not on time in 00:32:39.000 –> 00:32:41.000 a day to be doing that. And so 00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:43.000 you need a core group of guys 00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:47.000 to really kind of buy into what the 00:32:47.000 –> 00:32:47.000 coach is selling. 00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000 To get the group to buy into what 00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:50.000 they’re selling 00:32:50.000 –> 00:32:52.000 and get them play that way. 00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000 And 00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:56.000 and buy and and and come together as 00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:58.000 a group. Because the one difference 00:32:58.000 –> 00:33:00.000 from business to sports is every year is 00:33:00.000 –> 00:33:01.000 different. 00:33:01.000 –> 00:33:04.000 Yeah. Right. You’re you’re aging, you’re sharing. You’re 00:33:04.000 –> 00:33:04.000 developing 00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:07.000 faster. 00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:08.000 You know, you’re either aging out or you’re 00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:09.000 coming up. You know, players 00:33:12.000 –> 00:33:14.000 have your earth players have down years. Yeah. 00:33:14.000 –> 00:33:15.000 I mean, there’s all you know, and it 00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:17.000 happens in business too, but more so in 00:33:17.000 –> 00:33:18.000 sports where 00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:21.000 in order to be successful, Gilliland 00:33:21.000 –> 00:33:23.000 win and win a championship, 00:33:23.000 –> 00:33:25.000 everything’s gotta go great. Yeah. You gotta have 00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:26.000 luck. 00:33:26.000 –> 00:33:28.000 You gotta be healthy. You gotta have guys 00:33:28.000 –> 00:33:30.000 having career years. You gotta, you know, in 00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000 hockey, you could have a hot goalie. I 00:33:32.000 –> 00:33:34.000 mean, there’s you’re gonna have all those things, 00:33:34.000 –> 00:33:35.000 but if you don’t have a hot goalie, 00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:36.000 you’re done. 00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:39.000 For the blues. Right? Yeah. You’re not winning. 00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:41.000 So there’s so many different things that play 00:33:41.000 –> 00:33:44.000 into it. But but then, you know, 00:33:44.000 –> 00:33:46.000 more for me was, alright, 00:33:47.000 –> 00:33:48.000 I hold I hold myself 00:33:49.000 –> 00:33:50.000 to this standard. 00:33:51.000 –> 00:33:53.000 I’m not I’m not holding you to that 00:33:53.000 –> 00:33:56.000 standard. I’m holding myself to standard. But you 00:33:56.000 –> 00:33:57.000 Brett be at this standard. Mhmm. 00:33:58.000 –> 00:33:59.000 I don’t ask you to find anything I 00:33:59.000 –> 00:34:00.000 wouldn’t do. 00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:02.000 I’m the first one in the gym. I’m 00:34:02.000 –> 00:34:04.000 the one on the ice. I’m working on 00:34:04.000 –> 00:34:05.000 my craft. I’m 00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000 in the training room, making sure I’m healthy 00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000 so I can go play every single game 00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:09.000 I can. 00:34:10.000 –> 00:34:12.000 And I’m putting the time and effort in 00:34:12.000 –> 00:34:13.000 to 00:34:13.000 –> 00:34:15.000 to be the best I can be each 00:34:15.000 –> 00:34:15.000 and every day 00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:18.000 and prepare properly so that 00:34:19.000 –> 00:34:20.000 we can 00:34:21.000 –> 00:34:23.000 survive a nine month grind 00:34:23.000 –> 00:34:25.000 and a two month playoff grind to win 00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:26.000 a championship. 00:34:26.000 –> 00:34:29.000 Physical grind at that. Physical and mental. Yeah. 00:34:29.000 –> 00:34:30.000 Just the ups and downs, 00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:34.000 it’s it’s a roller coaster. And so to 00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:38.000 to be sharp and to understand, you know, 00:34:38.000 –> 00:34:41.000 as my career evolved, I got better and 00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000 better at that and and understanding my 00:34:43.000 –> 00:34:46.000 body understanding what I needed to do, how 00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000 I needed to train throughout the course of 00:34:48.000 –> 00:34:49.000 the season 00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000 to make sure I wasn’t have as b 00:34:51.000 –> 00:34:52.000 having as big a drop off. 00:34:53.000 –> 00:34:54.000 Playing thirty minutes a night 00:34:55.000 –> 00:34:58.000 always against top line. Always match up against 00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.000 best player. 00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:01.000 You know, I gotta play physical against the 00:35:01.000 –> 00:35:03.000 big guy the other team, and I gotta, 00:35:03.000 –> 00:35:05.000 you know, there’s a I’m managing a bunch 00:35:05.000 –> 00:35:08.000 of different Gilliland 00:35:08.000 –> 00:35:08.000 trying 00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:11.000 map out, oh, and I also need to 00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000 provide offense. I also need to, a lot 00:35:13.000 –> 00:35:15.000 of times, help run the power play. I, 00:35:15.000 –> 00:35:17.000 you know, you’re juggling a lot of hats. 00:35:17.000 –> 00:35:19.000 And you’re and then you’re looking at it 00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:20.000 going well, 00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:22.000 you know, as I look back at my 00:35:22.000 –> 00:35:23.000 career and I look at all the games 00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000 played now, I’m like, well, people are like, 00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:27.000 oh, You only got six hundred points. And 00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000 I’m like, well, five hundred ninety eight if 00:35:29.000 –> 00:35:32.000 somebody looks, it’s almost six hundred for those 00:35:32.000 –> 00:35:33.000 small checkers. Pardon me? 00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000 Six hundred and ninety eight. Six ninety eight. 00:35:36.000 –> 00:35:37.000 Six seven hundred. Pardon me. 00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:39.000 But 00:35:40.000 –> 00:35:42.000 Could I have gotten more points? Sure. 00:35:42.000 –> 00:35:44.000 Right. But at what cost? 00:35:45.000 –> 00:35:47.000 Where you’re it would detract from somewhere else. 00:35:48.000 –> 00:35:50.000 I was more about winning. 00:35:51.000 –> 00:35:53.000 If you look back through history, whether it’s 00:35:53.000 –> 00:35:55.000 me looking at playing June when I play 00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:57.000 junior hockey and you work all the way 00:35:57.000 –> 00:35:59.000 to mine in my career, when you look 00:35:59.000 –> 00:36:01.000 at the players who are wanted the most, 00:36:02.000 –> 00:36:04.000 who typically get paid at some point, 00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:05.000 are winners? 00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:08.000 Who gets plucked from all the if you 00:36:08.000 –> 00:36:10.000 look at football, baseball, basketball, 00:36:10.000 –> 00:36:13.000 hockey? Who gets plucked from these championship teams? 00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:15.000 The meet guys. 00:36:15.000 –> 00:36:18.000 The the role players that because they’re successful. 00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:19.000 They know how to win. 00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:22.000 Are they overpaid to do what they’re supposed 00:36:22.000 –> 00:36:22.000 probably. 00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:26.000 But there’s teams that don’t have that 00:36:27.000 –> 00:36:29.000 intangible that they’re trying to pay for. So 00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:33.000 And then if you’re able to do that 00:36:33.000 –> 00:36:33.000 as a 00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:36.000 all star top, you know, if you’re top 00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:38.000 two or however your top six top four 00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:41.000 d whatever, you’re gonna get paid too. Yep. 00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000 You might not get paid there, 00:36:43.000 –> 00:36:44.000 but you’re gonna get paid somewhere, you know, 00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:46.000 the next week, because you’re a winner. Yep. 00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:49.000 You’re champion. You know, so it’s Well, and 00:36:49.000 –> 00:36:51.000 that’s what’s it’s about trying to sell that. 00:36:51.000 –> 00:36:53.000 Right? It’s about trying to sell that. Yeah. 00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:54.000 It’s about listen. 00:36:55.000 –> 00:36:58.000 Short term pain for long term gain, you 00:36:58.000 –> 00:36:59.000 you may not be 00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000 doing what you necessarily wanna do within our 00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000 system, within, you know, when you pick up 00:37:04.000 –> 00:37:06.000 a guy from on trade or signing or 00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:06.000 whatever. 00:37:07.000 –> 00:37:08.000 This is our culture. 00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:10.000 You’re you’re selling a culture. This is it. 00:37:10.000 –> 00:37:12.000 This is how we operate. This is This 00:37:12.000 –> 00:37:15.000 is our locker room. Yep. Everybody in here, 00:37:15.000 –> 00:37:16.000 this is how we do it. How much 00:37:16.000 –> 00:37:18.000 of that is talked about in the locker 00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:19.000 room? Like, are you, like, if, you know, 00:37:19.000 –> 00:37:21.000 a, b, and c is the principles that 00:37:21.000 –> 00:37:22.000 you guys are fighting for this year. You 00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:24.000 know, is like It gets Is that 00:37:24.000 –> 00:37:26.000 I mean, it’s every every game, every day? 00:37:27.000 –> 00:37:29.000 You get you have when you have good 00:37:29.000 –> 00:37:30.000 coaches, 00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:34.000 they meet with the leadership to, like, every 00:37:34.000 –> 00:37:36.000 every and again, every year you’re tweaking it, 00:37:36.000 –> 00:37:39.000 every year you’re learning, you’re adapting. Yep. You’re 00:37:39.000 –> 00:37:41.000 looking at your Pronger. How does that how 00:37:41.000 –> 00:37:42.000 how can we 00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:47.000 change, modify, or adapt our message to the 00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:48.000 group. Yeah. 00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:49.000 And 00:37:50.000 –> 00:37:53.000 it’s the players. It’s the leadership group, as 00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:54.000 I mentioned, that are selling it. It’s not 00:37:54.000 –> 00:37:57.000 the coach. Yeah. Right. He they’re, like, you’re 00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:58.000 sick of here. He’s not in there. He’s 00:37:58.000 –> 00:37:58.000 in there, 00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000 every single day. If he’s in there selling 00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:02.000 that every day, it’s prob. 00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000 You’re tuned out right away. The moment he 00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:07.000 opens his mouth again to do something else, 00:38:07.000 –> 00:38:09.000 you you’ve lost the room. Everybody’s tuned out. 00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:12.000 So you gotta have a couple different guys 00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000 in a couple different groups, like I’ll use 00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:15.000 Anaheim, 00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:16.000 the year we won the cup. You know, 00:38:16.000 –> 00:38:17.000 we had different sections 00:38:19.000 –> 00:38:20.000 of the room. 00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:23.000 You know, I sat over as you walked 00:38:23.000 –> 00:38:24.000 in our locker. I sat on the right 00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:25.000 side. 00:38:25.000 –> 00:38:27.000 I couldn’t really see the left side because 00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:30.000 it was tucked over here. So we had 00:38:30.000 –> 00:38:31.000 a guy over there. 00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:34.000 In that side, dealing with that group. And 00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:35.000 over here on this group to the right, 00:38:35.000 –> 00:38:36.000 we had a couple of young guys and 00:38:36.000 –> 00:38:37.000 a couple 00:38:38.000 –> 00:38:39.000 Dman, a couple of young guys were trying 00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:42.000 to move along, trying to teach how to 00:38:42.000 –> 00:38:43.000 be Chris, and they’re in my group over 00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:45.000 here. And then over here across away. You 00:38:45.000 –> 00:38:47.000 know, these are the quieter guys, but they 00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000 know they know how to win. They’re they’re 00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000 on point. They’re over there. You got another 00:38:51.000 –> 00:38:52.000 group over here that’s 00:38:53.000 –> 00:38:56.000 far end. So you kinda have these quadrants, 00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:58.000 you know, you hear about the quads and, 00:38:58.000 –> 00:38:59.000 you know, all these different things. 00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:00.000 So 00:39:01.000 –> 00:39:02.000 we spent most of our time because we’re 00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:04.000 all and they’re getting dressed talk. And we’re 00:39:04.000 –> 00:39:05.000 in our little bubble over there. 00:39:06.000 –> 00:39:07.000 You know, you’re you’re talking to the whole 00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:09.000 group in the locker room, but you’re you’re 00:39:09.000 –> 00:39:11.000 talking to that little main core right there. 00:39:12.000 –> 00:39:14.000 Right? Yeah. Because they’re right there. So, you 00:39:14.000 –> 00:39:15.000 know, you got these young guys and you’re 00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000 talking to them about how to be pros, 00:39:17.000 –> 00:39:19.000 and you need to, you know, you the 00:39:19.000 –> 00:39:19.000 coach 00:39:20.000 –> 00:39:21.000 in Anaheim did a great job of trying 00:39:21.000 –> 00:39:23.000 to trying to them how to be pros 00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:25.000 from a coach’s perspective. 00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:27.000 And then it’s incumbent upon the leadership group 00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:28.000 and the players to 00:39:28.000 –> 00:39:30.000 drag along, like, you gotta get in the 00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000 gym. 00:39:31.000 –> 00:39:33.000 Let’s go Brett in here. You gotta you 00:39:33.000 –> 00:39:34.000 gotta prepare. That’s what I was gonna ask. 00:39:34.000 –> 00:39:36.000 What defines If you go out and have 00:39:36.000 –> 00:39:38.000 a good time, You better show up to 00:39:38.000 –> 00:39:41.000 work the next day. Yeah. Like, you’re not 00:39:41.000 –> 00:39:43.000 going to the back of the line every 00:39:43.000 –> 00:39:43.000 time, and, 00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:46.000 you’re not doing drills because you’re hungover. 00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:49.000 If you’re doing that, then just don’t come 00:39:49.000 –> 00:39:50.000 out. Right. 00:39:50.000 –> 00:39:52.000 We’re we’re trying to get better. We’re working 00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:53.000 on stuff out here. Did you and did 00:39:53.000 –> 00:39:55.000 you notice I’m assuming this answer is yes, 00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:57.000 but did you notice a difference between as 00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000 like you and the Gretzky. I mean, you 00:39:58.000 –> 00:40:00.000 came to Saint Louis. Right? You had McGinnis 00:40:00.000 –> 00:40:02.000 Hall Gretzky, you on the team. I mean, 00:40:02.000 –> 00:40:03.000 that’s a hell of a team. Right? So 00:40:03.000 –> 00:40:06.000 did you find those were different on everything 00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:06.000 from preparation, 00:40:07.000 –> 00:40:08.000 physically, emotionally, 00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:11.000 going out at night, not going out at 00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:12.000 night. Was that different than a lot of 00:40:12.000 –> 00:40:13.000 people? 00:40:13.000 –> 00:40:15.000 Well, I think Yeah. You learn. You know, 00:40:15.000 –> 00:40:17.000 like, I got here. I was twenty, turning 00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:20.000 twenty one. Al was, I think, thirty one. 00:40:20.000 –> 00:40:20.000 So 00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:24.000 I’m catching him. He’s got kids. He’s more 00:40:24.000 –> 00:40:24.000 sure he’s 00:40:25.000 –> 00:40:27.000 Yep. He’s in the prime of his career. 00:40:28.000 –> 00:40:29.000 So I’m coming in at the start of 00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000 my career, and I’m, like, kinda just soaking 00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000 it all in, like, watching how we prepare 00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:34.000 how he practices, 00:40:34.000 –> 00:40:36.000 how he handles the media, 00:40:36.000 –> 00:40:38.000 how, you know, what what is he doing 00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:39.000 in the off season? 00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:42.000 You know, and and as my career 00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:45.000 started to take shape, 00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000 I then met with his trainer 00:40:47.000 –> 00:40:50.000 and, and started working with him. And 00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000 I I met him at Al’s house. And 00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000 I walked in the front door and I 00:40:54.000 –> 00:40:56.000 Charles was right over here to the left. 00:40:56.000 –> 00:40:58.000 I walked in. He’s like, hey, walk toward 00:40:58.000 –> 00:41:00.000 me. I took five steps. 00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:02.000 He’s like, alright, now turn around and go 00:41:02.000 –> 00:41:03.000 walk back. Okay? 00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:05.000 He’s like, you got a bad left knee? 00:41:05.000 –> 00:41:06.000 I go, yeah. 00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:09.000 He’s like, you got a sore rotator cuff 00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:11.000 on your right shoulder. Yeah. It’s like 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:13.000 just 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:16.000 by watching me walk five steps. 00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:18.000 You could tell just the way my body 00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:19.000 was moving 00:41:20.000 –> 00:41:22.000 and the weight distribution, I don’t know, weight 00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:22.000 distribution, 00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:23.000 and 00:41:23.000 –> 00:41:25.000 the hitch in my staff, whatever. I mean, 00:41:25.000 –> 00:41:27.000 you you’re not paying attention to that, I’m 00:41:27.000 –> 00:41:29.000 like Right. I’m twenty two years old. 00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:30.000 Whatever. 00:41:32.000 –> 00:41:34.000 What what are you talking about? Remaid, you 00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:37.000 know, how I hate, you know, nutrition wise, 00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:42.000 you know, and that kind of was the 00:41:42.000 –> 00:41:44.000 start of taking that next step. Alright. How 00:41:44.000 –> 00:41:46.000 good do you wanna be? 00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:48.000 How much you will in a sacrifice? 00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:50.000 You know, because at the end of the 00:41:50.000 –> 00:41:52.000 day, that’s what it is. It’s sacrificing 00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:54.000 something to be great at something. 00:41:54.000 –> 00:41:56.000 Because there are there’s a Gilliland a take 00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:58.000 for everything. I think too, for me, like, 00:41:58.000 –> 00:41:59.000 I had a business coach early on in 00:41:59.000 –> 00:42:01.000 my career, right, that I spent, you know, 00:42:01.000 –> 00:42:03.000 lots of money on, that maybe I didn’t 00:42:03.000 –> 00:42:05.000 wanna do or maybe couldn’t afford back then. 00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:06.000 But even that for you guys. Right? That 00:42:06.000 –> 00:42:09.000 guy probably wasn’t free. I’m assuming that’s off. 00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:11.000 No. Back then, he was expensive. Right. And 00:42:11.000 –> 00:42:13.000 I’m saying so, I mean, investing yourself. Right? 00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:16.000 Again, business leaders invest in a coach, invest 00:42:16.000 –> 00:42:18.000 in a mentor, invest in something, right, to 00:42:18.000 –> 00:42:19.000 give back. Do you agree with that? No. 00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:21.000 A hundred percent. No. You have to. You 00:42:21.000 –> 00:42:22.000 know, how how good do you wanna be? 00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:24.000 Yeah. We don’t we don’t know everything out 00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:25.000 of the gate. You can’t read a book. 00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:27.000 One size does not fit all. Yep. We 00:42:27.000 –> 00:42:29.000 all soak in information differently. 00:42:30.000 –> 00:42:31.000 And and we all have 00:42:32.000 –> 00:42:33.000 strengths and weaknesses. 00:42:34.000 –> 00:42:36.000 And you’re not gonna know them. You need 00:42:36.000 –> 00:42:38.000 somebody to help point them out and say, 00:42:38.000 –> 00:42:41.000 this is a blind spot. You’re not seeing. 00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:42.000 You need to work on Chris. And, oh, 00:42:42.000 –> 00:42:44.000 okay. You’re really good at this, but you 00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:46.000 only do this. Yeah. You need to do 00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:49.000 this too. Add this to your repertoire. 00:42:49.000 –> 00:42:51.000 Yeah. Now do Chris. And once you honed 00:42:51.000 –> 00:42:53.000 that, do this. And so 00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000 I think you have to really 00:42:58.000 –> 00:42:59.000 kinda go in eyes wide open and and 00:42:59.000 –> 00:43:00.000 have an understanding how 00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:06.000 much you wanna get better. How much 00:43:07.000 –> 00:43:07.000 whether, 00:43:08.000 –> 00:43:10.000 you know, running a business, whether you’re playing 00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:12.000 a sport, whatever it is. It’s your commitment 00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:14.000 to excellence and your commitment to getting better. 00:43:14.000 –> 00:43:15.000 Yep. 00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:17.000 Showing up every day to improve. 00:43:18.000 –> 00:43:19.000 Well, I think that’s the key right there. 00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:20.000 Showing up on days even when you don’t 00:43:20.000 –> 00:43:22.000 want to or you’re a little maybe. Right? 00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:23.000 I mean, there’s a quote. I see Michael 00:43:23.000 –> 00:43:26.000 Phelps up there. Yeah. Five years straight, 00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:28.000 trained every 00:43:28.000 –> 00:43:32.000 single day. Yep. Every day. Every day. Every 00:43:32.000 –> 00:43:34.000 day. And by the way, if you’ve ever 00:43:34.000 –> 00:43:35.000 swam, like Chris guy swam, 00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:38.000 not easy. No. 00:43:39.000 –> 00:43:40.000 There’s lots of days. I’m sure he was 00:43:40.000 –> 00:43:43.000 like Man, my shoulders are sore. My backs 00:43:43.000 –> 00:43:43.000 are sore. 00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:46.000 Or just mentally didn’t wanna do it. It 00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000 was cool. Alright. 00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:50.000 Like, yeah, living in Baltimore. You know, he 00:43:50.000 –> 00:43:50.000 had a, 00:43:51.000 –> 00:43:52.000 he had a post it, I read his 00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000 book. I’m fascinated by what he did. And 00:43:54.000 –> 00:43:55.000 and he had a post it note though, 00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000 and it had by the milliseconds. 00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:59.000 What he was gonna do each race. Yeah. 00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:00.000 And if you look, it’ll show, like, what 00:44:00.000 –> 00:44:01.000 he had written down and what he did 00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:02.000 the race. 00:44:03.000 –> 00:44:05.000 For five man, you’re talking milliseconds. 00:44:05.000 –> 00:44:09.000 Working. Yeah. Poning. Yeah. Working on that turn. 00:44:09.000 –> 00:44:13.000 Yeah. K. Turn. Can I save a millisecond? 00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000 Yeah. Can I say, how can I transition 00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000 fast? Like, just it’s Well, that guy, I 00:44:17.000 –> 00:44:19.000 remember who it was, but the guy that 00:44:19.000 –> 00:44:20.000 was dancing, doing stuff in front of him 00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:22.000 and Michael Phillips didn’t even budge, man. And 00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:23.000 then he went out there and, you know, 00:44:23.000 –> 00:44:24.000 kicked the guy’s ass or then the the 00:44:24.000 –> 00:44:26.000 swim, they showed the the camera under the 00:44:26.000 –> 00:44:28.000 water the guy was looking over at him. 00:44:28.000 –> 00:44:30.000 And he’s gonna That’s water, and he’s just 00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:30.000 like 00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:33.000 Yeah. Champions look at the wall. Right? 00:44:34.000 –> 00:44:35.000 Place guy looks champion. Don’t focus on the 00:44:35.000 –> 00:44:38.000 competition. Focus on you. That’s right. That’s right. 00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:39.000 So what was it like for you? Then 00:44:39.000 –> 00:44:40.000 as you, you know, you progress in your 00:44:40.000 –> 00:44:42.000 career, you obviously, you started to have a 00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000 family. Right? So how old were kiddos, they 00:44:44.000 –> 00:44:46.000 were born, like, probably your oldest was born 00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:48.000 when you were in the two thousands. I 00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:49.000 was, 00:44:49.000 –> 00:44:50.000 twenty 00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:53.000 let’s see. Here. 00:44:54.000 –> 00:44:56.000 Jack’s o two. So I was twenty, 00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:59.000 eight. Yeah. So o two. So you still 00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:01.000 had a good, you know, 10:11 years left 00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:03.000 in your career. Did you balance the the 00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:06.000 family side and the and the sports side 00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:07.000 when you’re obviously on on the road and 00:45:07.000 –> 00:45:09.000 traveling? It’s hard, you know, it’s hard. You’re 00:45:09.000 –> 00:45:11.000 you gotta finite amount of time. You never 00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:13.000 know your career is gonna be over. 00:45:14.000 –> 00:45:17.000 And and you have to invest in your 00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000 career. You gotta be all in on your 00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:21.000 craft and getting Brett. And 00:45:22.000 –> 00:45:24.000 as your body evolves, as you get more 00:45:24.000 –> 00:45:25.000 injuries, as you, 00:45:26.000 –> 00:45:28.000 you know, as the punishment and toll of 00:45:28.000 –> 00:45:30.000 playing a certain way, it takes its, form 00:45:30.000 –> 00:45:31.000 on you. Have to 00:45:32.000 –> 00:45:35.000 kinda re reshape and and remold yourself and 00:45:35.000 –> 00:45:36.000 into a way that works. Yep. You know, 00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:37.000 you’re changing things and altering how you train 00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:42.000 and what you eat and all those different 00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:42.000 things. And, 00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:45.000 you know, and and in the midst of 00:45:45.000 –> 00:45:45.000 that, 00:45:48.000 –> 00:45:50.000 I got traded out of here in o 00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:51.000 five. 00:45:51.000 –> 00:45:53.000 We have the lock out o four. I 00:45:53.000 –> 00:45:53.000 have 00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:56.000 major wrist surgery, major knee surgery in, 00:45:58.000 –> 00:45:59.000 o 02:03. 00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000 So I missed that whole year. Then I 00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:03.000 came back and I played o 03:04. 00:46:05.000 –> 00:46:05.000 And then, 00:46:07.000 –> 00:46:09.000 We had the lockout in o five zero 00:46:09.000 –> 00:46:10.000 zero 04:05. And then I got traded and 00:46:10.000 –> 00:46:11.000 played 00:46:15.000 –> 00:46:18.000 Edmitin in o in o 05:06, then Anaheim, 00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:19.000 o 07:06 00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:20.000 zero seven. 00:46:20.000 –> 00:46:22.000 And then on So now, honey, let’s go. 00:46:22.000 –> 00:46:25.000 09:10. I’m in Filly. So you’re, you know, 00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:28.000 four four cities in five years. 00:46:28.000 –> 00:46:31.000 Oh, around the whole country? Yeah. Going to 00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:32.000 four different locations. 00:46:32.000 –> 00:46:34.000 Yeah. You know? So it’s Maybe we should 00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:36.000 have her on the podcast Yeah. To talk 00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:37.000 about how to deal with that. Why are 00:46:37.000 –> 00:46:40.000 we doing this? You know, so it was, 00:46:41.000 –> 00:46:43.000 I bounced around. You know, I never really 00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:44.000 added it up like that, but five years, 00:46:44.000 –> 00:46:46.000 I was in four different teams. Yeah. Bang. 00:46:46.000 –> 00:46:47.000 Bang. Bang. It’s 00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:50.000 crazy. So what what role do you think 00:46:50.000 –> 00:46:52.000 athletes play? I mean, because you’re you’re, you 00:46:52.000 –> 00:46:54.000 know, we I think we as humans, whether 00:46:54.000 –> 00:46:56.000 it’s right or wrong, probably wrong. We we 00:46:56.000 –> 00:46:58.000 put you guys on this pedestal. Like, you’re 00:46:58.000 –> 00:46:59.000 on the limelight. We see it. We play. 00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000 We root for you. But what role do 00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000 you do you think you guys play in 00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000 the community? Because I know the work that 00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:06.000 you do as a community you know, your 00:47:06.000 –> 00:47:08.000 guys’ golf tournament, you and Dan Deardorf, played 00:47:08.000 –> 00:47:09.000 that this year. Amazing. 00:47:10.000 –> 00:47:12.000 Huge impact on our local charities. But as 00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:15.000 an athlete, and then for today’s athletes, role 00:47:15.000 –> 00:47:16.000 do they play 00:47:16.000 –> 00:47:17.000 in the communities that we all live in? 00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:19.000 Yeah. I’ll sum it up. You know, I’ve 00:47:19.000 –> 00:47:20.000 I’ve always 00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:23.000 been invested in the communities I played in, 00:47:23.000 –> 00:47:24.000 you 00:47:24.000 –> 00:47:26.000 know, I think it’s a a great way 00:47:26.000 –> 00:47:27.000 to get back. It’s a great way to 00:47:27.000 –> 00:47:29.000 be involved in the community and meet people 00:47:29.000 –> 00:47:32.000 and and meet those that are out supporting 00:47:32.000 –> 00:47:35.000 you. You support the the local community and 00:47:35.000 –> 00:47:36.000 the charities that are, 00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:38.000 nearest and dearest, 00:47:39.000 –> 00:47:42.000 you know, Brett Burke, my initial GM in 00:47:42.000 –> 00:47:43.000 Hartford, 00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:45.000 and then was my GM in Anaheim. 00:47:45.000 –> 00:47:47.000 I mean, he summed it up best. He’s 00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:48.000 like, the and and 00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:51.000 from a you talk about leadership and you 00:47:51.000 –> 00:47:51.000 talk about, 00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:53.000 you know, 00:47:53.000 –> 00:47:55.000 setting up that vertical owner 00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:57.000 manager 00:47:57.000 –> 00:47:59.000 coach player, 00:48:00.000 –> 00:48:01.000 you know, and he was like, 00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000 this is this is what we do here. 00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:05.000 This is the culture we are setting. We’re 00:48:05.000 –> 00:48:07.000 saying we’re creating a winning tradition. Yep. And 00:48:07.000 –> 00:48:09.000 we’re also giving creating a tradition of we’re 00:48:09.000 –> 00:48:11.000 gonna be invested in the community. We’re gonna 00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000 get back. We’re gonna do Chris, you know, 00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:15.000 we’re gonna do something every month for the, 00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:16.000 you know, 00:48:16.000 –> 00:48:19.000 Greater Orange County community. Yeah. We’re gonna be 00:48:19.000 –> 00:48:21.000 doing x y z. If you have a 00:48:21.000 –> 00:48:23.000 problem with your ice time, do not talk 00:48:23.000 –> 00:48:25.000 to me. Talk your coach. 00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:27.000 You wanna be traded. Come talk to me. 00:48:27.000 –> 00:48:29.000 You got a problem off the ice. Come 00:48:29.000 –> 00:48:31.000 talk to me. But you have anything to 00:48:31.000 –> 00:48:32.000 do with hockey? 00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:34.000 Your head coach is right over there. Go 00:48:34.000 –> 00:48:35.000 see don’t come to me. 00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:37.000 I’m not I’m not doing That’s not how 00:48:37.000 –> 00:48:38.000 it works. And there’s a chain of command, 00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000 and there’s a there’s a 00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:43.000 x y z. This is everybody’s roles, responsibilities. 00:48:44.000 –> 00:48:46.000 I have mine. Coach has his, and you 00:48:46.000 –> 00:48:48.000 as a player have yours. So talk to 00:48:48.000 –> 00:48:50.000 us about the couple, some of the best 00:48:50.000 –> 00:48:52.000 moments that you think back in your career. 00:48:53.000 –> 00:48:54.000 Just the highlights. What are some of those 00:48:54.000 –> 00:48:56.000 best hockey moments for you that you think 00:48:56.000 –> 00:48:58.000 fans, listen, would love to hear? Yeah. You 00:48:58.000 –> 00:49:00.000 know, and I think one of the ones 00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:01.000 that I never really 00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:04.000 took a lot of joy in and a 00:49:04.000 –> 00:49:06.000 lot of pleasure in that I wish I 00:49:06.000 –> 00:49:07.000 wouldn’t have been so 00:49:08.000 –> 00:49:10.000 every year when you don’t win, you’re just 00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:12.000 pissed off. You’re just Like, 00:49:13.000 –> 00:49:16.000 it sucks to lose. I hated losing more 00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:17.000 than I like to win. Yeah. And it 00:49:17.000 –> 00:49:19.000 just drove me bananas. 00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:21.000 And I took a lot of that stuff 00:49:21.000 –> 00:49:23.000 early on in my career, probably the first 00:49:23.000 –> 00:49:24.000 ten years of my career till I had 00:49:24.000 –> 00:49:27.000 kids. I just took the everything from the 00:49:27.000 –> 00:49:28.000 rank home. 00:49:28.000 –> 00:49:30.000 And I couldn’t separate. I just I would 00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:33.000 I’d be thinking about a play I made 00:49:33.000 –> 00:49:34.000 four days ago, 00:49:34.000 –> 00:49:37.000 sleeping or whatever. Just pissed me off. And 00:49:37.000 –> 00:49:38.000 it took me a while to learn how 00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:40.000 to, like, just let go of the game 00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:41.000 and just 00:49:42.000 –> 00:49:43.000 you you gotta just turn the page and 00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:45.000 get going. And, when 00:49:46.000 –> 00:49:47.000 won the heart in Chris Trophy in two 00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000 thousand. 00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:50.000 Yeah. That was a pretty big moment. Yeah. 00:49:50.000 –> 00:49:51.000 I really didn’t 00:49:52.000 –> 00:49:53.000 enjoy it the way I should have I 00:49:53.000 –> 00:49:55.000 was still thinking, you know, we had won 00:49:55.000 –> 00:49:57.000 the president trophy that year. We were thinking 00:49:57.000 –> 00:49:59.000 Stanley Cup, we had a team, and 00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:02.000 you’re losing the first round, and you’re like, 00:50:02.000 –> 00:50:02.000 what 00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:06.000 I was just so pissed off. Still, 00:50:06.000 –> 00:50:08.000 a month and a half later at the 00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:09.000 awards banquet, I just, you know, it was 00:50:09.000 –> 00:50:12.000 great. Thanks. It was Brett. But you’re just, 00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:13.000 like, Yeah. 00:50:14.000 –> 00:50:15.000 And and I didn’t really get the That’s 00:50:15.000 –> 00:50:17.000 what made you good though too. Right? Well, 00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:19.000 yeah. It’s what drives you, but, you know, 00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:21.000 there’s moments like that where, 00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:24.000 you know, you know, winning the Stanley Cup 00:50:24.000 –> 00:50:25.000 was graded on my on my family was 00:50:25.000 –> 00:50:27.000 there. It was awesome. 00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:30.000 My kids were old enough to remember it 00:50:30.000 –> 00:50:31.000 too. You know, there weren’t babies sitting at 00:50:31.000 –> 00:50:32.000 the top. 00:50:35.000 –> 00:50:36.000 You know, again, Olympic, 00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:39.000 you know, them being there at the Olympics 00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:40.000 in twenty ten. 00:50:40.000 –> 00:50:41.000 They were a little bit older, so they 00:50:41.000 –> 00:50:43.000 got to enjoy it. 00:50:44.000 –> 00:50:46.000 You know, o two. My wife was pregnant 00:50:46.000 –> 00:50:48.000 with Jack. So it was you know, just 00:50:48.000 –> 00:50:51.000 a lot of different storylines, but, you know, 00:50:51.000 –> 00:50:52.000 those two were that they could be at 00:50:52.000 –> 00:50:53.000 in in o o seven and and 00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:55.000 ten. 00:50:56.000 –> 00:50:58.000 We’re pretty special. I’m just 00:50:58.000 –> 00:51:00.000 soaking it up, knowing that, 00:51:01.000 –> 00:51:03.000 you know, I spent thirteen years to win 00:51:03.000 –> 00:51:05.000 a a championship in the NHL 00:51:05.000 –> 00:51:07.000 You know, and you you’re like, you just 00:51:07.000 –> 00:51:09.000 never know. Don’t make it there. No. You 00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:10.000 and and and they don’t 00:51:11.000 –> 00:51:14.000 you think it’s easy. It’s not easy. Like, 00:51:14.000 –> 00:51:16.000 you see, oh, this guy four cops or 00:51:16.000 –> 00:51:18.000 this guy one. I go. Yeah. They they’re 00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:20.000 on great teams, and they’ve got great players 00:51:20.000 –> 00:51:22.000 and on and on and on. They hit 00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:22.000 the, 00:51:23.000 –> 00:51:25.000 you know, everybody’s hit the right 00:51:25.000 –> 00:51:26.000 peaking at the right time. 00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:29.000 And then there’s other teams who are like, 00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:30.000 damn, we had good teams, and you didn’t 00:51:30.000 –> 00:51:31.000 even get a sniff 00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000 Like, there were teams here in Saint Louis. 00:51:33.000 –> 00:51:34.000 We were like, 00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:37.000 we had good teams. Yeah. And the teams 00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:38.000 at one were like, damn, we could’ve beat 00:51:38.000 –> 00:51:41.000 them. You did and sometimes it’s the match 00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:42.000 ups, you know, where 00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:47.000 Dallas could beat Detroit 00:51:49.000 –> 00:51:51.000 Detroit could beat us, but we could be 00:51:51.000 –> 00:51:53.000 Dallas. Mhmm. And and just 00:51:53.000 –> 00:51:55.000 all the You catch them. You know, and 00:51:55.000 –> 00:51:57.000 and just who you mat who you playing 00:51:57.000 –> 00:51:59.000 and how you match up and it, 00:52:00.000 –> 00:52:02.000 any of the big hits that, you know, 00:52:02.000 –> 00:52:04.000 you go through your highlight reel of your 00:52:04.000 –> 00:52:06.000 career. Right? I know there’s lots. I know 00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:08.000 how you playing. There’s lots of those. I 00:52:08.000 –> 00:52:09.000 don’t know if there’s I’ve seen you swing 00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:10.000 a golf ball. I’m like, damn. 00:52:11.000 –> 00:52:12.000 There’s my back. 00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000 I don’t know if there’s one per se, 00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:15.000 but, 00:52:16.000 –> 00:52:17.000 you know, there’s lots that 00:52:17.000 –> 00:52:18.000 you’re 00:52:18.000 –> 00:52:19.000 you’re 00:52:19.000 –> 00:52:19.000 lying 00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:22.000 in a up and you’re like I see 00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:24.000 it coming. Well, you can just and then 00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:26.000 when you hit them and you don’t feel 00:52:26.000 –> 00:52:28.000 it, like, that was so pure. It’s kinda 00:52:28.000 –> 00:52:29.000 like hitting a golf ball. You hit a 00:52:29.000 –> 00:52:30.000 golf ball it is. It was just pure. 00:52:30.000 –> 00:52:32.000 Like, oh, that was good. That was good. 00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:34.000 I want more of that. I didn’t think 00:52:34.000 –> 00:52:36.000 of it that way. That’s probably true. That’s 00:52:36.000 –> 00:52:38.000 probably true. Because because if you don’t hit 00:52:38.000 –> 00:52:39.000 it pure, 00:52:39.000 –> 00:52:41.000 And it hurts you, you’re like, oh, that 00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:43.000 hurts. I hit one thin on a nice 00:52:43.000 –> 00:52:44.000 cold day. Nice cold day. Yeah. No. No 00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:46.000 good. No good. That’s no good. Let’s turn 00:52:46.000 –> 00:52:48.000 to page from hockey to whiskey. 00:52:49.000 –> 00:52:51.000 Staring at Chris, whiskey here for those not 00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:54.000 watching their listening, the journey, j r n 00:52:54.000 –> 00:52:57.000 y. You can it’s it’s nominal. 00:52:57.000 –> 00:52:59.000 First time we hung out, we had some 00:52:59.000 –> 00:53:01.000 journey. You know, it was some good stuff. 00:53:01.000 –> 00:53:02.000 So talk about this, man. This is you 00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:05.000 and your brother. Yeah. And, talk about the 00:53:05.000 –> 00:53:06.000 journey. Yeah. 00:53:06.000 –> 00:53:08.000 I had been looking 00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:10.000 my brother and I’ve been talking for, like, 00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:11.000 four or five years, trying to figure out 00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000 something we could do together. 00:53:15.000 –> 00:53:15.000 And, 00:53:16.000 –> 00:53:18.000 just nothing really resonated 00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:20.000 and, 00:53:20.000 –> 00:53:22.000 about two and a half years ago now. 00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:25.000 One of my brothers friends, and, hey, I 00:53:25.000 –> 00:53:26.000 wanna introduce you to this guy. 00:53:27.000 –> 00:53:29.000 He runs Snagger, false Kraft distillers. You know, 00:53:29.000 –> 00:53:31.000 they’re looking for a partner in a whisk 00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:35.000 longtime whiskey drinker, as my brother likes to 00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:36.000 say, we’ve put in a lot of research 00:53:36.000 –> 00:53:38.000 in the moment. A lot of R and 00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:40.000 D. Thirty plus years of R and D. 00:53:40.000 –> 00:53:42.000 Don’t do the math. Right. 00:53:44.000 –> 00:53:46.000 And so, you know, it was a long 00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:49.000 time crown drinker It’s Canadian whiskey. So, 00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:53.000 he brought this to us and we were 00:53:53.000 –> 00:53:55.000 thinking about it. We’re like, oh, how is 00:53:55.000 –> 00:53:56.000 this gonna work? 00:53:56.000 –> 00:53:58.000 You know, I had I know I knew 00:53:58.000 –> 00:53:59.000 a lot of people in the spirits business. 00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:03.000 Mhmm. Different way. Yeah. But, you know, not 00:54:03.000 –> 00:54:06.000 never made one and and kinda taken on 00:54:06.000 –> 00:54:09.000 a project of this magnitude. And, you know, 00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:10.000 as we kinda walked through it and looked 00:54:10.000 –> 00:54:13.000 at it from a business standpoint, and then, 00:54:13.000 –> 00:54:14.000 you know, you you wanna be able to 00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:16.000 enjoy and have some have fun with it 00:54:16.000 –> 00:54:16.000 and 00:54:17.000 –> 00:54:17.000 what’s 00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:20.000 not what’s not fun about whiskey. I don’t 00:54:20.000 –> 00:54:21.000 know. Canadian whiskey back. 00:54:22.000 –> 00:54:25.000 New school Canadian whiskey had that. So, 00:54:25.000 –> 00:54:27.000 you know, we said, oh, we’re like, okay. 00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:29.000 If we’re gonna do this and you know 00:54:29.000 –> 00:54:31.000 me well enough now. If I’m gonna do 00:54:31.000 –> 00:54:33.000 something, I’m all in. Yeah. And I’m like, 00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:34.000 alright, if we’re doing this, 00:54:35.000 –> 00:54:37.000 I want control of the 00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:38.000 the liquid, 00:54:38.000 –> 00:54:40.000 the the branding. 00:54:41.000 –> 00:54:42.000 So we own the IP for all this 00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:44.000 stuff, and and Nagaphos does a great job 00:54:44.000 –> 00:54:45.000 making it for us. 00:54:46.000 –> 00:54:48.000 Number was forty four as well? His number 00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:49.000 was fifty four. Oh, so you got the 00:54:49.000 –> 00:54:51.000 But forty four is the percent 00:54:52.000 –> 00:54:52.000 alcohol. 00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:55.000 A little homage to me, but 00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:57.000 it’s a it’s a Well, maybe if he 00:54:57.000 –> 00:54:59.000 gets It’s a little bit stronger whiskey than, 00:55:00.000 –> 00:55:02.000 Crown or any the other Canadian whiskey on 00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:03.000 the market. But, 00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:07.000 we had a base of what we, you 00:55:07.000 –> 00:55:07.000 know, 00:55:08.000 –> 00:55:10.000 what we liked. And then we’re like, alright. 00:55:10.000 –> 00:55:11.000 Is there anyway, we if 00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:13.000 for how we had a lot of things 00:55:13.000 –> 00:55:15.000 we didn’t like about it, we’re like, okay. 00:55:15.000 –> 00:55:18.000 Can we fix, we wanna fix the burn. 00:55:18.000 –> 00:55:21.000 We think more people will drink there’s no 00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000 burn. Mhmm. We wanna, you know, 00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:25.000 add a little bit of spice, little sweetness, 00:55:25.000 –> 00:55:27.000 little, you know, little tweaks here and there. 00:55:28.000 –> 00:55:30.000 It’s in there’s no preservative no additives. 00:55:31.000 –> 00:55:32.000 It’s very pure. 00:55:33.000 –> 00:55:36.000 And so we did we did it over 00:55:36.000 –> 00:55:38.000 facetime. They send us a sample. Remember that 00:55:38.000 –> 00:55:40.000 I would get on FaceTime, we’d take it, 00:55:40.000 –> 00:55:41.000 you know, to drink what do you like? 00:55:41.000 –> 00:55:43.000 What do you not like? Take notes? 00:55:43.000 –> 00:55:44.000 Send send them back to notes and be 00:55:44.000 –> 00:55:47.000 like, alright. Can you change it? More of 00:55:47.000 –> 00:55:48.000 that. And not knowing the lingo of, you 00:55:48.000 –> 00:55:50.000 know, brewmaster lingo. We’re like, 00:55:51.000 –> 00:55:53.000 can you do this? And like, oh, well, 00:55:53.000 –> 00:55:55.000 that’s that. I’m like, okay, great. But Yeah. 00:55:55.000 –> 00:55:56.000 Just do that. 00:55:56.000 –> 00:55:58.000 Okay. How you do it? Just do it. 00:55:58.000 –> 00:56:00.000 However you do that. Do that. And, and 00:56:00.000 –> 00:56:02.000 so the second time around, like, okay, it’s 00:56:02.000 –> 00:56:04.000 a little bit better. But can you, you 00:56:04.000 –> 00:56:06.000 know, there’s still some burn. Can you get 00:56:06.000 –> 00:56:07.000 rid of that? Can you do this? 00:56:08.000 –> 00:56:10.000 And then on a third try, 00:56:11.000 –> 00:56:13.000 we both took a sip and were like 00:56:14.000 –> 00:56:17.000 That’s it. Boom. That’s it. That is exactly 00:56:17.000 –> 00:56:19.000 what we’re trying to do. Love it. And 00:56:19.000 –> 00:56:21.000 that is what you’re tasting right now. 00:56:22.000 –> 00:56:23.000 And so 00:56:24.000 –> 00:56:25.000 from that, any, you know, 00:56:26.000 –> 00:56:28.000 maybe a little naive to the politics 00:56:29.000 –> 00:56:30.000 and the legal and the 00:56:31.000 –> 00:56:33.000 government and all the hoops you gotta jump 00:56:33.000 –> 00:56:34.000 through. And, 00:56:35.000 –> 00:56:37.000 you know, we kinda worked through all that. 00:56:37.000 –> 00:56:38.000 And, it’s like, 00:56:39.000 –> 00:56:40.000 twenty two months, I think, to get to 00:56:40.000 –> 00:56:41.000 market. 00:56:42.000 –> 00:56:44.000 And now we’ve been, six months in the 00:56:44.000 –> 00:56:45.000 market. And, 00:56:46.000 –> 00:56:48.000 in Missouri, relaunched in Saint Louis and and 00:56:48.000 –> 00:56:49.000 Missouri, Southern, Illinois. 00:56:50.000 –> 00:56:51.000 And, 00:56:52.000 –> 00:56:54.000 and now we’re at some right over Yes. 00:56:54.000 –> 00:56:55.000 And then, 00:56:57.000 –> 00:56:58.000 now we’re in New York. 00:56:58.000 –> 00:56:59.000 Ontario 00:57:00.000 –> 00:57:02.000 will be in Alberta next month. We’ll be 00:57:02.000 –> 00:57:04.000 in Texas next month. Oh, man. 00:57:04.000 –> 00:57:07.000 And then, a little further down the line 00:57:07.000 –> 00:57:09.000 will be in Southern California. But those are 00:57:09.000 –> 00:57:10.000 the five core 00:57:10.000 –> 00:57:13.000 markets that we wanna Gilliland 00:57:13.000 –> 00:57:15.000 talk about the name. J r and y, 00:57:15.000 –> 00:57:17.000 the journey. On the back of the bottle, 00:57:17.000 –> 00:57:18.000 that is our tagline. 00:57:20.000 –> 00:57:23.000 And it says, celebrate the victories be proud 00:57:23.000 –> 00:57:23.000 of your scars. 00:57:24.000 –> 00:57:26.000 Enjoy the journey. I love that. And really, 00:57:26.000 –> 00:57:27.000 when you think about it, 00:57:28.000 –> 00:57:29.000 it really is all about the journey. It’s 00:57:29.000 –> 00:57:31.000 about the journey of life. It’s about the 00:57:31.000 –> 00:57:32.000 journey you’re on. 00:57:32.000 –> 00:57:34.000 You have a great day. You 00:57:34.000 –> 00:57:36.000 you sell a company. 00:57:36.000 –> 00:57:37.000 You win a championship. 00:57:37.000 –> 00:57:39.000 What’s thing you wanna do, you wanna have 00:57:39.000 –> 00:57:40.000 a glass of whiskey, you wanna tell your 00:57:40.000 –> 00:57:42.000 friend, you wanna tell your mom and dad, 00:57:42.000 –> 00:57:43.000 you wanna tell your spouse, 00:57:43.000 –> 00:57:45.000 you wanna you wanna hang with your buddies 00:57:45.000 –> 00:57:47.000 and just revel in the 00:57:47.000 –> 00:57:49.000 joy of winning. You have a bad day. 00:57:49.000 –> 00:57:50.000 Get kicked in the face. You 00:57:53.000 –> 00:57:54.000 lose. 00:57:55.000 –> 00:57:56.000 Wanna do. You wanna have a glass of 00:57:56.000 –> 00:57:58.000 whiskey, you wanna tell your buddies, you wanna 00:57:58.000 –> 00:57:59.000 tell your spouse, you wanna tell your mom 00:57:59.000 –> 00:58:01.000 and dad, you wanna tell somebody, and you 00:58:01.000 –> 00:58:01.000 wanna 00:58:04.000 –> 00:58:07.000 sit and talk about it and about the 00:58:07.000 –> 00:58:08.000 journey that you’ve been on. And so, as 00:58:08.000 –> 00:58:08.000 we started talking about my 00:58:11.000 –> 00:58:12.000 wrote a book called The Journeyman. 00:58:13.000 –> 00:58:15.000 He played in, 00:58:15.000 –> 00:58:17.000 sixteen teams in eleven years. He bounced around 00:58:17.000 –> 00:58:18.000 a lot. And so he coined himself the 00:58:21.000 –> 00:58:21.000 journeyman, 00:58:21.000 –> 00:58:23.000 and we shortened it to the journey because 00:58:23.000 –> 00:58:26.000 it’s just about the journey, and about, you 00:58:26.000 –> 00:58:27.000 know, our own unique journeys that we’re on 00:58:27.000 –> 00:58:29.000 and the stories you tell of the people 00:58:29.000 –> 00:58:30.000 you meet, 00:58:31.000 –> 00:58:33.000 And so that’s kinda where we got the 00:58:33.000 –> 00:58:34.000 name from 00:58:35.000 –> 00:58:38.000 and kinda and and and since we, you 00:58:38.000 –> 00:58:40.000 know, came up with this naming, I don’t 00:58:40.000 –> 00:58:41.000 know, it was, like, two years ago. 00:58:42.000 –> 00:58:44.000 Every time I talked to something, not necessarily 00:58:44.000 –> 00:58:46.000 about the whiskey, just in general, in a 00:58:46.000 –> 00:58:47.000 conversation, 00:58:48.000 –> 00:58:49.000 How many times I hear the word journey? 00:58:49.000 –> 00:58:50.000 Yeah. 00:58:50.000 –> 00:58:53.000 All the time. All the time. Always so 00:58:53.000 –> 00:58:54.000 you’re just always gonna be top of mind 00:58:54.000 –> 00:58:56.000 because it’s about the journey. Oh, the journey 00:58:56.000 –> 00:58:58.000 you’re on, and I’ll far as your journey. 00:58:59.000 –> 00:59:00.000 Duh, duh, duh, whatever. Well, it’s funny. I 00:59:00.000 –> 00:59:02.000 was on a business actually my business coach 00:59:02.000 –> 00:59:04.000 yesterday on a call. And, he talked about 00:59:04.000 –> 00:59:07.000 the journey. And he said sometimes people compare 00:59:07.000 –> 00:59:08.000 their journey to other journey. Like, I wanna 00:59:08.000 –> 00:59:11.000 be where that guy’s at. That gal’s at. 00:59:11.000 –> 00:59:13.000 All Chris stuff, but yet your journey is 00:59:13.000 –> 00:59:14.000 your journey. Correct. 00:59:14.000 –> 00:59:17.000 And live your journey to the best of 00:59:17.000 –> 00:59:19.000 its ability. Right? Dominate that journey. Yep. Don’t 00:59:19.000 –> 00:59:21.000 worry about what everybody else is doing. Yeah. 00:59:21.000 –> 00:59:23.000 So last couple of questions here. 00:59:24.000 –> 00:59:25.000 Future, Brett in your past. You see the 00:59:25.000 –> 00:59:27.000 sticker here. You saw the journal and the 00:59:27.000 –> 00:59:30.000 hat earlier. Is, our firm’s mission, 00:59:30.000 –> 00:59:32.000 is to help people achieve a future grade 00:59:32.000 –> 00:59:34.000 in their past. So when you hear that 00:59:34.000 –> 00:59:36.000 future grade in your past, what comes to 00:59:36.000 –> 00:59:37.000 mind for Chris Browner? 00:59:38.000 –> 00:59:39.000 I would say 00:59:39.000 –> 00:59:40.000 for me, 00:59:40.000 –> 00:59:43.000 paying it forward and raising kids to be 00:59:43.000 –> 00:59:44.000 successful 00:59:44.000 –> 00:59:45.000 and 00:59:47.000 –> 00:59:48.000 thriving in 00:59:49.000 –> 00:59:51.000 whatever they wanna do. And and 00:59:52.000 –> 00:59:55.000 providing them with the knowledge and support 00:59:56.000 –> 00:59:58.000 to live a better life than I had. 00:59:58.000 –> 00:59:59.000 And it’s not 01:00:00.000 –> 01:00:03.000 spoon feeding them. It’s teaching them what the 01:00:03.000 –> 01:00:05.000 real world is like. 01:00:05.000 –> 01:00:07.000 It’s showing them life’s not easy. It’s allowing 01:00:07.000 –> 01:00:09.000 them to fail. It’s allowing them to 01:00:10.000 –> 01:00:12.000 realize that they’re gonna need to sacrifice something 01:00:12.000 –> 01:00:13.000 to be good at something, etcetera. 01:00:15.000 –> 01:00:16.000 But 01:00:16.000 –> 01:00:17.000 you know, building 01:00:19.000 –> 01:00:20.000 your life improving 01:00:20.000 –> 01:00:22.000 much much like I did in my sports 01:00:22.000 –> 01:00:25.000 career, life after it’s getting better every single 01:00:25.000 –> 01:00:27.000 day, whatever that is 01:00:28.000 –> 01:00:29.000 building a company, 01:00:29.000 –> 01:00:30.000 creating a family, 01:00:31.000 –> 01:00:32.000 creating a legacy, whatever that is, whatever speaks 01:00:32.000 –> 01:00:33.000 to what someone is 01:00:36.000 –> 01:00:37.000 to do. 01:00:38.000 –> 01:00:39.000 Certainly, 01:00:40.000 –> 01:00:41.000 hits home to me. It it’s, 01:00:42.000 –> 01:00:44.000 you know, when you look at legacy or 01:00:46.000 –> 01:00:48.000 family name or things like that, 01:00:49.000 –> 01:00:50.000 you know, 01:00:50.000 –> 01:00:52.000 when somebody hears your name, what do they 01:00:52.000 –> 01:00:53.000 think of? You 01:00:53.000 –> 01:00:56.000 know, and that to me that that’s more 01:00:56.000 –> 01:00:57.000 important than, 01:00:58.000 –> 01:01:00.000 you know, I always get asked, oh, what 01:01:00.000 –> 01:01:02.000 do what do you what wanna be remembered 01:01:02.000 –> 01:01:04.000 for as a player? I’m like, that’s just 01:01:04.000 –> 01:01:05.000 a small part of my life. 01:01:06.000 –> 01:01:06.000 Like, 01:01:07.000 –> 01:01:09.000 I’m not worried about that. 01:01:09.000 –> 01:01:12.000 I left every ounce of my being on 01:01:12.000 –> 01:01:13.000 that ice, and I’m done. And now it’s 01:01:13.000 –> 01:01:13.000 about here and now, and and 01:01:17.000 –> 01:01:18.000 living for 01:01:20.000 –> 01:01:22.000 my life now, my kids, my family, etcetera, 01:01:22.000 –> 01:01:24.000 and and, you know, business 01:01:24.000 –> 01:01:26.000 and trying to figure out how bet how 01:01:26.000 –> 01:01:27.000 how to make 01:01:28.000 –> 01:01:29.000 a bigger mark on society 01:01:31.000 –> 01:01:33.000 outside of what I used to do. Yeah. 01:01:33.000 –> 01:01:34.000 You know, and I think a lot of 01:01:34.000 –> 01:01:35.000 athletes 01:01:35.000 –> 01:01:37.000 and even business people 01:01:37.000 –> 01:01:38.000 get caught up in 01:01:39.000 –> 01:01:41.000 they’re so and so, the CEO. They’re so 01:01:41.000 –> 01:01:43.000 and so, the hockey They’re so and so 01:01:43.000 –> 01:01:45.000 the football player. In all my career, I 01:01:45.000 –> 01:01:45.000 was like, 01:01:46.000 –> 01:01:46.000 Stop. 01:01:47.000 –> 01:01:48.000 That’s just a small part. 01:01:49.000 –> 01:01:51.000 So stop. I’m not just a hockey player. 01:01:51.000 –> 01:01:52.000 Yeah. 01:01:52.000 –> 01:01:53.000 Like, stop. 01:01:54.000 –> 01:01:56.000 I am x y z. I I have 01:01:56.000 –> 01:01:58.000 other aspirations that I wanna do. Yeah. And 01:01:58.000 –> 01:01:59.000 my focused on that right now. Yes. Because 01:01:59.000 –> 01:02:01.000 that’s what I do now, 01:02:01.000 –> 01:02:03.000 but I’m not gonna do it my whole 01:02:03.000 –> 01:02:03.000 life. Right. 01:02:04.000 –> 01:02:05.000 And so you you try to 01:02:07.000 –> 01:02:08.000 stomp out the stereotypes 01:02:08.000 –> 01:02:10.000 that people always wanna 01:02:10.000 –> 01:02:12.000 throw at throw at you. And, you know, 01:02:12.000 –> 01:02:14.000 if you walk around as Joe Blow, the 01:02:14.000 –> 01:02:14.000 CEO of AB or Joe Blow, the 01:02:16.000 –> 01:02:19.000 CEO, emerson. And and that’s your 01:02:20.000 –> 01:02:21.000 whole being. 01:02:21.000 –> 01:02:23.000 You’re in for a rough ride when you’re 01:02:23.000 –> 01:02:24.000 done, brother. Yeah. 01:02:24.000 –> 01:02:26.000 She’s exactly right. Was it hard I said 01:02:26.000 –> 01:02:28.000 last question. I lied. Was it hard for 01:02:28.000 –> 01:02:30.000 you to replace the adrenaline? Because I can’t 01:02:30.000 –> 01:02:32.000 imagine. It’s irreplace. I I shouldn’t it’s it’s 01:02:32.000 –> 01:02:34.000 a better way to say it. No. But 01:02:34.000 –> 01:02:36.000 but that’s that’s where most 01:02:37.000 –> 01:02:38.000 athletes struggle is they’d look for that high. 01:02:38.000 –> 01:02:38.000 Yeah. You know, 01:02:42.000 –> 01:02:43.000 I get hooked on booze or drugs or 01:02:43.000 –> 01:02:44.000 whatever. 01:02:44.000 –> 01:02:46.000 It’s You’re never gonna replace it. It’s you 01:02:46.000 –> 01:02:49.000 cannot. It’s you cannot replace it. It’s 01:02:50.000 –> 01:02:52.000 you know, there’s no rush unlike 01:02:53.000 –> 01:02:54.000 being an athlete and coming into a stadium 01:02:54.000 –> 01:02:54.000 or arena or what have you. Fans going 01:02:54.000 –> 01:02:55.000 ballistic 01:02:59.000 –> 01:03:02.000 a playoff game and twenty thousand, sixty thousand, 01:03:02.000 –> 01:03:04.000 eighty thousand people going crazy, screaming and yelling 01:03:04.000 –> 01:03:05.000 your name, whether they hate you or love 01:03:05.000 –> 01:03:06.000 you. 01:03:06.000 –> 01:03:08.000 You hear it all. Yeah. You hear it 01:03:08.000 –> 01:03:09.000 Gilliland 01:03:11.000 –> 01:03:13.000 you don’t ever it’s like that paint man 01:03:13.000 –> 01:03:15.000 in commercial. He’s like talking to the screaming 01:03:15.000 –> 01:03:17.000 at the accountant and doing that stuff, 01:03:17.000 –> 01:03:20.000 it it’s it’s just there’s nothing like it. 01:03:20.000 –> 01:03:22.000 Yeah. You’re never you’re never gonna find that 01:03:22.000 –> 01:03:23.000 again. You can try. 01:03:24.000 –> 01:03:26.000 And, you know, people by businesses and do 01:03:26.000 –> 01:03:28.000 all this different stuff. And it’s just, you 01:03:28.000 –> 01:03:30.000 know, that adrenaline part, that Brett. 01:03:31.000 –> 01:03:34.000 Can’t find it. No. Yeah. Chris Pronger. Thanks 01:03:34.000 –> 01:03:35.000 for being with us, man, the circle of 01:03:35.000 –> 01:03:37.000 success. I’m very humbled at a guy like 01:03:37.000 –> 01:03:39.000 you with your, your pedigree, your background, and 01:03:39.000 –> 01:03:41.000 the man you are. It’s, it’s amazing. You 01:03:41.000 –> 01:03:42.000 come over here and swim time with us 01:03:42.000 –> 01:03:44.000 and our listeners, and I’m very thankful for 01:03:44.000 –> 01:03:46.000 that, my man. Thank you. Good to have 01:03:46.000 –> 01:03:47.000 you on the journey. 01:03:51.000 –> 01:03:52.000 You.

Jan 1, 2024 • 1h

A Deeper Dive Into ROI | A Return On Integrity

Unlock the key to achieving the desired results in your life by delving into the profound concept of integrity and its far-reaching impact. Join Brett Gilliland and John Blumberg in this engaging podcast episode as John sheds light on essential aspects of his book, “The Return on Integrity: How Honesty and Values Create Success from the Ground Up.” Gain insights into the reasons behind silence in the face of workplace misconduct and discover how breaking this silence can bring about positive change, even in uncomfortable situations. Tune in to explore the transformative power of integrity for personal and professional success. https://youtu.be/JZN9kImwAW8 John Blumberg: [00:00:00] The circuit of success podcast, the circuit of success podcast with your host, Brett. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the circuit of success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. And today we have in the office or the studio, as we like to call it is John Blumberg. John, welcome to the show, Brett. Great to be here with you. It’s exciting. And, uh, really one, I appreciate you even doing this in, uh, in person. I know you, uh, drove down from Chicago to spend some time with us. Uh, for those of you, uh, my, my good friend over here, you can’t see him on the, on the camera, from KPMG, Andrew Davidson, and, uh, so appreciate the introduction, Andrew, and, uh, we’re gonna have a, a great show, um, today, John is an author, he’s a speaker, he’s a husband, he’s a father, he’s a Christian, he’s, he’s all sorts of stuff, so it’s gonna be fun, so, as we do with everybody, John, why don’t you just take our listeners through a little, a journey of your life, if you will, and, and tell us what’s helped make you the man you are today. Yeah, I John Blumberg: think it, [00:01:00] and you, I think you name it well, in that it is a journey, and I think at any moment, uh, that you think you’ve arrived, or that you think, okay, I’ve got this all figured out, that’s where you’re back to, uh, ground zero, uh, and I, uh, I, I just watched the evolution. I spent 18 years at Arthur Anderson, uh, actually started as a CPA in audit. And, uh, I always say shifted my focus from numbers to people and, uh, spent the bulk of my time, uh, there actually working on, uh, the human development of our professionals and, and, uh, spent a lot of time eventually helping, uh, direct our recruiting worldwide. And through that process, uh, there was a lot. Um, that I learned about myself is that I helped others learn about themselves. And I think over time, um, I just thought if you could help others be better at what they do. And it really culminated, I was, uh, in a firm wide role and we did these student leadership conferences. And there was a guy Uh, it was a student, uh, that came up to me at the end of the presentation. It was a, [00:02:00] a three day thing. I had a Saturday night, uh, keynote that I did in my role, and it was called Getting a Vision for Your Life. And, um, people would always come up and say, John, I like your stories. Uh, but this guy, Sam, walked up, and he said, um, and he was the last guy in line, and you always pay attention to the last one, right, because they don’t want anybody behind them, right? And he said, Mr. Blumberg, uh, what you shared tonight I think will change the direction of my life. And what’s ironic about that is I wish I knew Sam’s last name because I would go find him because a year later him coming up to me that night changed the direction of my life. Um, walking away, uh, from pretty much everything, a firm, a position, everything that was wonderful was a stumbling block that I had to let go of. And I’ve learned a lot about letting go, uh, in the years to follow, but it began this journey of, um, Eventually leadership and then eventually, uh, uh, core values. And of course, you can’t go out and be speaking on something that you’re not continually growing on. So, and Brett Gilliland: would you say that was a passion of yours when you [00:03:00] were a child? I mean, were you pretty focused on people and growing and reading books and doing all those things? Or is it something that as you climbed as you’re in your career that that John Blumberg: happened? Yeah, I think, um, I think. People that knew me back then would always say that friends, um, relationships were always, uh, critical to me. It was kind of funny, uh, even though I had majored in accounting. I always had this thing when I went out to do an audit at a client, um, and it was a time where I would say the clients aren’t quite as sophisticated as they are today, and they were a little bit terrified when we came in. And my goal, literally, intentionally, was that when we left, they would be sorry to see us go. And so I think there’s, uh, elements of, um, you know, relationship there, uh, connection, uh, that was, I think, probably always, uh, important to me. I would have never in my younger years seen it play out the way that it’s played out, but it’s kind of that lamp into your feet thing, right? So let’s talk Brett Gilliland: about that to, to what Sam said to you is get a vision [00:04:00] for your life. Why, why do you think that’s so important? John Blumberg: Well, I think, um, I think first of all, there’s a bit of a paradox at play because I, I think that it’s important to, uh, to look inside and begin to understand who you are, um, and then where do you want that person to go at the same time, the paradox is, I think you also have to hold it lightly is that you yes, have to have that vision and play of what you think you’re trying to either accomplish or who you’re trying to become, but along the way, know that every day if you choose is going to teach you a lesson that may very well change the course and that the original vision may have nothing to do with what the ultimate vision will play out to be. And that’s Brett Gilliland: what we talked about on the circuit of success. And you can see it behind this is once you have the attitude and you have those beliefs and you do the actions, you ultimately get results, but that’s going to create a new vision. Yes. Right. That’s exactly, I think that’s, what’s important about that circuit of success is. As we travel down the [00:05:00] road of success and as we climb the ladder, do whatever we need to do in our lives. I mean, it’s constantly, in my opinion, working on that vision and thinking about that vision because What was a goal and a dream 10 years ago probably isn’t the same goal and dream today. John Blumberg: Yeah, in fact, you would hope it wouldn’t be, right? Uh, if you, if it is, then you probably haven’t truly grown, uh, in the process. So let’s talk about Brett Gilliland: your book, R. O. I. Hmm. Everybody always, everybody knows what R. O. I. is, right? Of course they do. But you decided to change the I, so walk us through that. Why? And I love the name of the book. It was a great book. For those of you that do or don’t follow me on social media, it’s one of those books that I was highlighting, uh, last month. And it was a phenomenal book and that’s why we’re sitting here today. So talk to us about ROI. Obviously, we think of return on investment, but you John Blumberg: changed that. Yeah. And first of all, Brett, thanks for diving into it and, uh, and also having me today. Uh, so I began looking at this whole issue. I had been working for a long time on, uh, the importance. And this was part of my own evolution from leadership to what really [00:06:00] fuels leadership. Um, and my focus became, uh, laser on the idea of core values. And so as I began to understand that I was only on the surface of what this was about, um, I, I started what I thought was going to be a one year journey to write this book. And it turned out, it turned out to be a four year journey. Uh, and part of it was because I, I, I began to understand as you started digging into this, it’s so much deeper. I was really feeling like if the leader at the top, the, the CEO, or whatever the name of that leader at the top is, if they’re not all bought in, um, this isn’t going to go anywhere. And I knew that the leader at the top thought about ROI a lot, of return on investment, um, but this is what, this was not what I was focused on. I wanted to literally reframe the first thing they talked about when they talked about ROI, and therefore the name of the book became, uh, Return on Integrity. And, uh, it has been quite a journey that Absolutely continues. In fact, there’s [00:07:00] been so much that’s come from it of my own growth of being challenged by great questions, great insights, but also understanding this is much harder than I thought it would be for individuals. And I’m talking about good individuals with lots of substance. And it takes a lot longer, uh, to dig to the level that I’m talking about on what their core values are and that would define that integrity. And I’m excited Brett Gilliland: too to dig in because I, I came up with my, I did the role play or the exercise, right? And I always hope people do that. When you see an author, when they’re that committed to telling you to put their own book down and do the homework, I’m like. I got to do the homework, right? Because he’s telling me to put his own book down, but anyway, so I did it and then I doing my research for today. I found that one of the words I use, which will save for later. You say is actually not a core value. So I’m excited to jump into that. So let’s talk about you have. The other book, Silent Alarm, which I got phenomenal, um, that’s a novel. This one is not [00:08:00] a novel. Right. Why is that? John Blumberg: Yeah. And it’s, it, I got a lot of push as I was beginning to write it. John, who is the organization that is doing this? And you need to showcase one or two organizations that have done this. And I said, you know, this is the challenge when you’re trying to chart new ground. Um, I felt like I probably could go out and find some that look like they were doing it, but the truth was, um, I knew they weren’t. Right. And that That somehow did not hold integrity. And so I had to go with this idea that, and I come very directly at it in the beginning of the book, and I said, anybody that’s seen my speaking, anybody that, um, has read Silent Alarm knows my love of story. But this is not a story book. In fact, it is not for leaders that are looking for those stories. I, I, I say those are followers and leadership positions. What this book is about is equipping a leader to create the story. And my hope was, is that in, in going through, and it was designed to be the scalability of the [00:09:00] message, is that they would be able to take, take it and actually create amazing stories about how they, Also, we’re on the surface of where they thought they were, they thought they were at the bottom of the well, um, that they really had dug as deep as they could and realize there were only 1 percent in and they create an amazing story. And then we’re beginning to see some organizations make some headway, but this is not a short term thing, right? And, and we’re a short term, um, mindset. Yeah. And I think it’s one of those Brett Gilliland: books you really need to dive into. So if you’re like me and you have the attention span to maybe read about 10 pages a day, right? Yeah, which is it’s a good habit to be in. But it also allowed me to slow down enough to really think about it. And we’re going to talk about one of the quotes later that I know Andrew and myself really connected with in the book. But, um, you know, so when you think about that stuff, you talk about the three D’s, right? You talk about dilemma, you talk about definition and you talk about destiny. Right. So let’s spend some time on, on the dilemma part. You, you had your CEO sampling. Yeah. Tell us about [00:10:00] the CEO sampling and what did you learn from that? John Blumberg: Yeah. So my publisher was making a big push saying, John, you got to get to a solution. Uh, you cannot, uh, spend a third of the book, um, on the problem. And so I, my gut said that if you get a top leader starting to think solution, they are going to absolutely blind out what the real problem is and and there no way are they going to be able to dig deep enough unless they Really have investigated the problem. So I decided to go out and ask leaders at the top Um, I want to I really want to dive into Why is it so hard to know and to live core values in the world that we live in today in the pressures that are on business? Because I didn’t want people to think, well, he’s out kind of in la la land on his no clue what day to day life is. I clearly understood that, but I was also shooting pretty high to what I thought we could get to or digging pretty deep on what I thought we could get to. And so I said, would you be [00:11:00] able? Would you be willing to sustain a fair amount of time to really understand the issue at hand before you ever got to the solution? And 100 percent of them said, John, the moment you start talking solution, I quit thinking of the problem. And I need, I think you’re right. I need to understand the context much broader and deeper than I’ve ever given the thought to it. Yeah. And that’s where the evolution of dilemma, um, you know, played Brett Gilliland: out. Yes, I think as leaders, right, we’re fixers. And so we don’t want to be on the problem. We want to, even at home, right? You can get into a discussion with your wife and it’s like, here’s how you’re going to fix it. They’re just like, no, be quiet. I want you to listen. Yes. Right. And so that’s what I found in the book is all the time. You got to slow down to speed up. Yes. Is to really define what those core values are. My business partner, Tim Hammett is phenomenal. He talks about his respect. Trust and humility. Every meeting we’re in, I can see it coming from a mile away. I know what he’s going to talk about, but that’s just to his core, how important it is for all relationships. So all of us leaders, I think we need [00:12:00] to go through the exercise. And the way I did it was I wrote down as many words as I could think of that were, could be a value. Yeah. And I came up with mine and it was, um, it, I love the word grit. And so mine came out to grit. It was growth. It was respect. I for integrity, which you say is not a core value, right? We’ll get to that. And trust. Yes. So we’re going to get to that. But for me, then that allowed it to become something that, okay, grit, I got to work hard. I got to be a leader that’s getting up every day and doing my deal. And so, so we’ll get to that stuff, but I think it was important. But what’s that one dilemma that you think stood out the John Blumberg: most to you? Yeah. So I, I think one of the critical dilemmas is, um, it’s the assumption that we think we got this. Um, in fact, I think. I actually believed when I started this journey that 95 percent of professionals and I’ll put it in the professionals world Actually knew their core values and I couldn’t have been more wrong. Actually, the percentage was correct. Unfortunately, it was just the [00:13:00] opposite And and I get a lot of pushback on this Brett because people will say well I’m a values based person and I’ll say that’s great. But some of the worst Uh, most evil leaders in the world were value based. It’s just a matter of which values of specifics matter. Uh, or people would say, well, John, I got a gut feel or and I got an intuition of what my core is. And I said, that’s awesome too. And I, I don’t have the research to prove this, but I believe that probably 30 years ago that that would have worked and that I think a lot of people operated that way. Um, but today the biggest difference is the speed at which we move and the change at which we face and the disruption that’s at play. And I, I guess the way I’ve most recently, um, framed this is that the faster we go, the deeper you have to be grounded. And it, I think it’s a critical, not only leadership skill, I think it’s a critical survival skill, whether we’re talking organizations or more importantly, individuals. And I think he Brett Gilliland: would, uh, agree with this. And I think Andrew probably would too for what he does every day. I [00:14:00] think in the next 5 or 10 years, it’s going to be the only thing John Blumberg: that separates businesses. Yes. I think that’s exactly right. In fact, there was a recent survey where integrity for the first time is the number one choice in choosing a professional services firm. And uh, it was the first time, I don’t know if it’s been on the list before, it might have been lower on the list, but uh, now it’s the number one and, and I think we’re hungry for it. I think we’re in a world where, um, You know, we’ve, I don’t know, there’s been so much on brand and on the veneer, uh, that people begin, I think unknowingly to buy in that that’s enough and it’s never enough for, again, going back to the lifetime Brett Gilliland: journey. And that veneer you’re talking about too is, it is, it’s what it looks like on the surface of the table, right? I know you talk about that in your book. Yes. It’s getting deeper and truly understanding what you John Blumberg: are. Yeah. And I think the, and if you assume you’ve already got this, you’re never going to go below the surface and you’ll never realize that I don’t know what I don’t know. And so I, when I think of integrity, I think it’s a much, [00:15:00] um, this is. I want people to think about it in a much more challenging way, um, a much deeper way and I think hopefully in a much more adventurous way than they’ve ever come close to giving it credit. So Brett Gilliland: let’s talk about the destiny part of the book. I know you almost didn’t include it in the book and you actually call it the destiny roadmap. Yeah. John Blumberg: Tell us more. I, I just felt, okay, I’ve got to somehow give some direction to this, uh, because we go from dilemma and then we go to the definition of figuring out what this is, the biggest deep dive. Okay, so what do I do with this? And again, I’m talking to leaders at the top and the, the conventional wisdom was you got to give them some help. My biggest fear was, is that they would say, okay, let’s just cookbook this thing. Uh, there’s gotta be a solution that is universal and it’s just not. Right. And so what I ended up doing is trying to create this roadmap that I trusted that if you had been through the dilemma and the definition part of the book, Your [00:16:00] mindset would be in such a way that you would never read this as a cookbook. In fact, you would just use it as a framework to stimulate your own creative thinking. And so the risk of what I feared, uh, would go away. Um, I, in fact, so much was afraid of it that at the beginning of the book, I said, You could jump to the third section and have a road map, um, but do it at great risk. Um, because you’re not ready, uh, to do this and you can’t lead it if you haven’t lived it. Right. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I think calling us out on that, it made me read the first two parts. I’m like, Oh gosh, he knows my type, right? He knows I’m going to jump to the end and see how to probably didn’t. You know, I knew you right now that you’re reading minds through your book. So, um. Um, so when I did do your homework, I’m, I’m curious to find this out. So I said mine was grit and the I was integrity, right? Why is that not a core value? Yeah. Why am I wrong? John Blumberg: Yeah. And I get, I’ve had some people on the surface looking, so are you kidding? It’s like on the list of most, uh, every organization, a good buddy of mine, I said, it’s our [00:17:00] number one value. Um, yeah. Here’s the thing, and I, I, this, probably the seed was planted a long time ago with Warren Bennis, who I always say is the grandfather of leadership books, was a professor at the University of Southern California, and he said, um, that honesty is when somebody asks you the question, you tell them the truth, and integrity is that you do what you said you’re going to do, and if you really think about that, um, that integrity is not itself a value, it is the fabric of leadership. of every value. It is literally what makes values, um, valuable. Now, I absolutely have no problem with somebody having integrity on the list because I think it’s a great reminder. Um, and when I frame out, there were probably three words for me, Brett, when, and you can look up a lot of definitions and you go around and ask a lot of people what integrity means. Um, there are three words that really played out for me and one is, um, whole, um, undiminished, And, um, and the idea that it’s [00:18:00] integrated. And so if you really think about it, um, if we think of our values, the risk can come out to be that we think of them individually. Imagine what your grit is like when they’re playing off of each other, and sometimes may very well be in conflict with each other, or be challenging each other. So the integrity is not only about, um, this whole idea of, of, of whole and undiminished, But it’s also the idea. Is it all connected? It is. It all worked together. And when it does, then you ultimately have, um, integrity. Yeah, Brett Gilliland: because yeah, so you could just peel that onion layer back more. So go to my G, which is growth, right? I believe. To my core that if you’re not growing you’re dying, right? And so if you’re not working on yourself mentally physically spiritually emotionally, you know all things we talked about lunch today Matthew Kelly helped me with yes is if you have those things If you don’t do them with integrity, then it doesn’t matter. Yes, right That’s great your intentions and your motives as Tim my partner always talks about right if they’re not [00:19:00] In the right intention, the right motive or have integrity than the growth doesn’t matter. That’s correct. In John Blumberg: fact, it’s a perfect example, Brett, because if you, um, we’ve seen a lot of people grow exponentially, um, but did not have integrity and, and so growth of its own, um, It’s the neutral thing that can be amazing or it can be very dangerous. But when you combine growth in the context of everything else that you have, you get a different kind of growth. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s a great perspective because growth for the sake of growth doesn’t matter. Right. Um, so let’s talk about one of my circuits there, um, belief. And I read somewhere that you talked about why it’s so important for your belief. To be in line with what you do for a living. Hmm. What’d you mean by that when you said that? Yeah. Yeah. John Blumberg: So, uh, if, well again, it goes back to, um, if, if it’s not, then there’s a, you’re not integrated. Uh, there’s a dis, in fact, you are [00:20:00] disintegrating, in fact, at some point. It’s just a matter, uh, of time. Uh, I do try to distinguish between, uh, what our beliefs are. Um, and what our values are, uh, because sometimes our beliefs actually can get in the way of our values are discovering our values because we get very black and white sometime and it has a lot more to do with ego, uh, than it does to. And again, I tried to distinguish between, um, this is not about what you value. It’s about what are your values? Um, and And in the book, you probably saw where I tried to distinguish between behaviors, wants and needs and values, and oftentimes our beliefs are hung up in our wants and needs, and that can cause a lot of division and oftentimes can cause you to go against your core values. But if you, if you’ve had your values in place and they inform how your beliefs come alive, and then those are in line with what you do and the relationships that [00:21:00] you develop, uh, then that’s where the integration begins to come into play. Brett Gilliland: And I think too, the, when you think about it from a team standpoint, so let’s look at it from a business, I look at, you know, whether it’s our, all of our advisors, our leadership team, whatever it may be, our clients. Is you talk about the 3 percent usually becomes the 100 percent and I love that part too, because you’re right. I mean, the littlest argument could be like, you know, you pick that piece of trash up over there and it turns into a fight because it’s not the, the 97%, right? It’s that little. thing that bothers you that turns into the 100%. So talk about that. Expand on that. John Blumberg: Yeah. And I think this is why it’s a day to day thing. Uh, it’s, it’s a noticing the 3 percent before it becomes the 100%, right? Right. And, and I think it’s a daily review. Uh, once you define what your values are, and I tried to distinguish between knowing them, meaning, can I list them and that’s true, whether it’s your personal values or organizational values, or do I actually know them? So when you tell me, for [00:22:00] instance, that growth is one of your values, you so much understand that so much more than I can understand it by knowing the word growth, that that is a label that that is of a great understanding to you, right? So as you get to truly know the value. And, and I would say by the daily reviews, how you get to know it, you have circumstances all of the time that are teaching you what growth means in your world and how it shows up. And so that’s why I think it’s a day to day practice to every, I call it the PMAM. The PM is your personal values that you every night, as you put your head on your pillow, or if you go to sleep in two seconds, like I do sit on the edge of your bed, but you go down the mental list of your core values and you review your day. And where did they show up? Where was the piece of paper I either picked up or I didn’t pick up, right? First of all, I would say you celebrate your values. Um, instead of trying to figure out where it didn’t go well, let’s celebrate where they did go well because we learned from that. The second is then to go back and look across your day and, and, and [00:23:00] figure out, if I’d only let that value show up, it would have made a difference. Not to beat yourself up, just to notice. And then the third is to go back across the video of your day and you, you look at that and say, where did I violate a value today? And we all, we always do it. It’s, it’s hopefully just at a half a percent. But we do it, but we notice it again, not to beat yourself up. Um, but it, again, it teaches us and it re engages us to be able to be better tomorrow. The AM is the same thing, except it’s forecasting and the A is all, uh, the organizational values. But it’s, I think it’s a daily thing that we get to know this and we become better at it, uh, through that Brett Gilliland: process. And I’m big on visualization too. So when, when you said the video of your day that really connected with me, because I mean, I’m picturing myself in my bedroom and I’m thinking about the day. And where could I have done better? Right? That’s all you’re talking about. So how important is visualization that am You know, one of my questions for you today is, you know, what are the habits, what are the rituals of, of the best, [00:24:00] right? You’ve seen some of the best leaders, you know, really in, in probably in the world, but in America, leading some of these best companies. What are you finding their habits and rituals are that they do every day without miss to make them great? John Blumberg: Yeah, I think one of the great, um, works that’s been done in the last year, um, she kind of came out of nowhere, uh, to be a rock star in the area of vulnerability. And that’s, uh, Brene Brown. And, and I think this idea, um, and what Rene so beautifully talks about is vulnerability comes from a place of strength, not a place of weakness. And what I have found is leaders that I’ve seen that are willing to be vulnerable are always strong leaders. And so, I think the best practice on it is, are you willing to be vulnerable with the one that’s hardest to be vulnerable with? And that’s yourself? Am I willing to see the truth? Because that’s what we’re really after is we’re willing to dig or we’re, we’re, we’re wanting to dig to what is the truth. Ultimately, the truth and to not have [00:25:00] any fear of what that truth is. And in doing so, I think we’ve become better and better at being able to see the truth, um, literally in the smallest. And I love your analogy of the piece of paper. It’s a great metaphor. I see it in the smallest way because oftentimes it’s the smallest thing that can teach us the biggest lesson. Brett Gilliland: That’s great. That does. And so vulnerability comes from a place of strength and not weakness. And I love that. Um, because I think as leaders, and women are this way too, I’m sure, but especially for men, right, we don’t want to admit, we don’t want to be vulnerable all the time. Yes. John Blumberg: Right? I think that’s exactly right. Women, I think, um, and I hate to generalize at all on this because there are certainly exceptions to every rule. Um, but. I, I think this process out of the starting gate, um, will be easier for women, uh, than it will be for men because they’re, they just call it for what it is. Um, and, and men oftentimes, uh, can have that protection mechanism. It’s not intended. It’s, it’s not a, uh, [00:26:00] it’s not a thing. fault. It’s just something they have to work through. In the end, I think men and women are both absolutely capable as human beings to exactly where I think they are able to get to. Brett Gilliland: So I’m gonna read you my favorite quote from the book. Okay. You think you know what it is? Without looking. You want me to guess? Yeah, I John Blumberg: do. Is it about Brett Gilliland: the drift? It is. Okay, let’s talk about that. All right. So it’s about the drift. So it says in the book, we don’t go running away from our values. We go drifting away. And one day we wake up in a place we never meant to be, drifting in a direction we never would have chosen. phenomenal, phenomenal. And, uh, so talk to me about John Blumberg: that. Yeah. Um, uh, you know, it’s interesting. Uh, I was sitting in a Starbucks in Naperville, Illinois. I initially thought authors went to chalets in the mountains, which by the way, I went away to Virginia to write a return on integrity. So I got part there. Um, But I was sitting there, and I wrote that, and I had no idea, Brett, [00:27:00] that so many people, it is the number one call out of the whole book, uh, I’d say 99 percent of the time, uh, and I should have known, um, because of my own life, because I, I think the reason we relate to it is because we’ve all experienced it, right, and I, I think our willingness to admit that’s the issue, um, um, I was speaking at the University of Alabama and a woman came up to me after a keynote and she said, we’ve been talking about drift and we’ve been talking about core values. And she said, John, it kind of dawns on me. How do you know that you ever left if you didn’t know where you were to begin with? And it was just like gold, right? Because if you assume, you know, your core values. We’re all going to drift, even if you, with your grit, you’re still going to drift, um, but you’re going to catch it, and that’s the whole thing, is can you catch your drift, or have drift catchers in your life that you give permission to, because [00:28:00] we all are going to do that. I was speaking to an eighth grade boys class, uh, about three years ago, I was actually doing a favor for a friend, and I, I don’t have stage fright, I, I think it’s a miswiring. Right. Um, but I was terrified talking to these eighth grade boys about you never know what’s coming. You never know what’s coming. And, and the guy at the end of the session, they were doing a little Q and a, and he said, Mr. Blumberg, do you think other people see you drifting before you do? And I just looked and I said, Joe, I think, you know, the answer to that question. And he said, I know. Yeah. And I said, that’s why you need drift guards. Um, you’re your own drift guard with the PM and AM, uh, but you’re also sending people on your live to say, if you ever see me drifting, and by the way, they need to be people who love you enough to tell you the truth and you love them enough to accept the truth when you don’t like what they’re saying. Um, but in effect, um, it keeps the drift in, in check. Yep. And there’s nothing wrong with it. In fact, sometimes a bit of a drift can teach us something very powerful about what we know about our [00:29:00] core values. Um, but they also, uh, unchecked, um, will lead to everything that we see in the news, um, and certainly that we see in our lives of people that, um, unfortunately, and it’s heartbreaking. It’s absolutely heartbreaking because these are not bad people. These are good people that have drifted. Right. Brett Gilliland: I get the name of your next book. I’m called the drift, the draft. I like it. Let’s just go with that. Let’s go. Right. The next book is John Blumberg: I can see it now. Brett Gilliland: I can see it as well. So, and let’s talk about that for a second. Cause you talked about the, the drift, uh, would you call them drift catchers or catchers? And so I asked this to people a lot in, when we’re in meetings and you know, I always ask for permission to challenge you or whatever it may be to hold you accountable because we love you, right? We love that person we’re in front of. And I’ll ask you this, who’s the person in your life that has challenged you the John Blumberg: most? Yeah, it’s a good buddy of mine. I guess they’re probably, uh, two. Uh, one’s a guy named Al. Uh, he’s in Chicago. And another, um, named [00:30:00] Sean. Uh, he’s in Vegas. And they’re two very different people. Uh, two different, very, uh, different stages of life. Mm hmm. And they would be the one to call me out. Uh, they’re the ones, we have those conversations that, um, um, Oftentimes, you can only have with a, uh, with a drift catcher or a drift guard. Um, there was, there was something I learned. This is another guy that I would put in that list, a guy named Dave. We were having lunch one day, and we had had a robust conversation, and we were just getting ready to leave, maybe five minutes before leaving, and Dave looked at me and said, Man, we’ve covered a lot of ground today. What’s the 5 percent that we didn’t talk about? Hmm. And it was a powerful, powerful question, uh, and he wasn’t like, what are you holding back on? He said, what are you not seeing that you need to put on the table? And I think, um, we all need people like that, um, in our lives. And we need to be that for people. We need to be willing to, um, dive into the kind of relationships that I believe. [00:31:00] Um, that I think we’re called to have, um, and we’re not called to have a bunch of those, uh, but we are called to have, uh, a critical few of those. Brett Gilliland: So I can’t remember who it was, but somebody I was talking to talked about who’s your 2 a. m. club that no matter what, right, you could call that person at 2 a. m. without asking questions, right? They’re coming to get you. They’re coming to get you. Right. They’re coming to get you. And there’s not a lot of those friends. That list is small, but I think it’s important. And for our leadership team, we gave each other permission to be that drift catcher. If you see me as a, the CEO of a company or we, you know, we see our, our COO or whoever it may be, we have to be, you know, love each other enough to be able to, to call you on that and know that it’s out of, out of respect. It’s out of, we care for you. We care for the, for the people at a whole. John Blumberg: So that’s huge. And I think it takes courage to be that. you know, for others. Um, it’s, it’s easier to, uh, not call people out. Um, and it, and you always have to respect that when somebody else is calling you out. And, and Brett Gilliland: I think too, is that they usually will see it before we [00:32:00] see it. Yeah. But they got to have the courage to, to John Blumberg: bring it up. Yeah. It’s tough. It gets better if you’re doing your PMA. But, uh, yeah, it’s still, they’re going to have a different viewpoint on it and a different set of, uh, eyes to see it. Brett Gilliland: And I, and I know Patrick Lencioni who wrote the, uh, he wrote a deal on your book for you is, uh, a friend of yours, but You know, I actually saw a video from him this morning and it was talking about having the people around you that have the courage to give you it, right? Because as a leader of an organization who you’re writing this book for, sometimes they don’t give that feedback because they, they think, well, my job’s on the line for this, right? Exactly. So I think us leaders and people that are leaders listening to this is be open minded enough. To get the feedback from the people that you, you should be trusting the most in your work environment. That’s exactly right. So let’s talk about fear. This is that question I told you about that, uh, that I was going to ask you. And, um, fear. How have you put that into your world throughout your Arthur Anderson days to now what you’re doing? Leaving a great career to, to kind of jump all in to go be a writer and a speaker and all that. That was [00:33:00] scary. What kind of fears did you put in your John Blumberg: mind? Well, first of all, I think you have to lean into it, uh, not fight it. Uh, I, I was being interviewed by, or not interviewed, a guy was thinking about jumping off and going into speaking. And at the time, gosh, it’s 22 years into it now, but at the time, 13 years. And he said, John, uh, when does it quit being scary? And I kind of looked and said, uh, never, uh, I’ll let you know. I’ll let you know. Right. Um, I said, what’s amazing though, is you get comfortable being uncomfortable. And so I am not afraid of fear. Um, in fact, it, it inspires me. Uh, uh, and you know, I just, I don’t run from it. Um, in fact, I think it is the one thing that if you can hold open hands to fear, I think ultimately all the way to fear of death is that. anything is possible. Um, it is amazing when we don’t lean into it, how it will shut you down. It, it is the most [00:34:00] limiting factor, uh, I think of, uh, of anything that we face. And I guess in some ways, how do you friend fear? Because it is your friend, right? Uh, ultimately, if you don’t let it scare you to death. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Cause if we don’t have it, then we’re probably not going to drive to be as successful as we want to be. Right. So the question I always ask is how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind. Have actually come true to the magnitude. You put them in your John Blumberg: mind to be. No, never. Yeah. And that Brett Gilliland: was my response. Right. Andrew, everybody, everybody laughs. Right. And everybody says, Oh, no, that just never happened. Right. Um, and it’s true. And I, I think my goal is I want to find the snippets from every one of these interviews and just put that on replay for people because they never come true to the magnitude we put them in our John Blumberg: minds to be. And you know what’s amazing is when you’re in the next situation and it’s creeping up on you, you forget that never is the answer and it’s really good to remind yourself. Yeah. You do Brett Gilliland: forget that never is the answer. Absolutely. So let’s talk [00:35:00] about the, the, the, some more of the circuits here. Attitude. Okay. When you hear the word attitude, what John Blumberg: immediately comes to mind? Yeah, it’s critical. Absolutely critical. And I think you have to keep a pulse on that. Um, because I think, um, drift certainly applies to values. It also applies to attitude. I think you also have to be careful, um, on the people you surround yourself with. And I don’t mean just to pick and choose people that only have good attitudes. Um, I often think sometimes you need to take on the challenge of finding the person that doesn’t have a good one and, and help them along with it. Because as you’re trying to help others have a better attitude, aren’t you going to have a better one because it’s top of mind? Um, I think it’s a critical factor and I think we’re all vulnerable Uh to letting that slide and and drift away the same way our values and that Brett Gilliland: attitude as you can see There’s a fence post or the fence line goes across since rejection, right? Because every day we can wake up we can have the greatest attitude in the world when we get up and you’re going to Go conquer the day But you get in and that little light over there is blinking on your phone, right? Rarely is it somebody [00:36:00] calling to give you all the best news in the world, right? And so there’s that thing called rejection, right? So when you hear that, what I would say, how do you feed the positive dog? What habits are you finding that people do to get you in the best attitude, to stay focused, battle through the rejection? John Blumberg: I think for me, first of all, don’t take it personally, um, is that, uh, in fact, sometimes the rejection is the right answer. A good friend, uh, was just sharing with me, um, that, um, he said, he put it this way. He said, um, uh, when you think you’re winning, oftentimes you’re losing. And sometimes when you’re losing, you’re winning. You’re often time winning. And so what I try to look at is to say that just like fear, sometimes rejection can be your friend, your friend is that, in fact, if you don’t take it personally, you don’t absorb it. You just move on. You take the next step forward and you keep going. Or you can choose to move on. Um, really sit on that. Um, I was talking to another good friend recently and he said he’s talking about in the, in the world of the NFL [00:37:00] and how coaches have to move on to the next game. They, yeah, it’s horrible that we had that terrible loss yesterday on Sunday, but on Monday we got to be getting ready for the next team because it has nothing to do with the loss that we just experienced. We, yeah, we need to learn, uh, from it, but we can’t stay focused on it. And Brett Gilliland: I think those tough decisions, I mean, if you, if you watch that Alabama football game the other night to take your guy, what was he 26 and two or something like that? Yeah. And you take him out of the game and you put in a true freshman and then the guy brings your team back and you win, I mean, I mean, he looks like a genius now, but that’s the thing. Leaders have to make those tough decisions and they got to live with those tough decisions. John Blumberg: I remember Sean Payton, uh, that, uh, onside kick at the beginning of the second half. Uh, he was brilliant. because it worked, right? If that hadn’t worked, people would have thought, are you kidding? Are you, you should never, which probably takes us to the idea. Rejection could very well be a matter of perspective. Right. Right. Brett Gilliland: Well, then you even go a step further with that super bowl game that everybody in the world thought that the Seahawks would run around like the half of the half yard line. Yep. [00:38:00] They throw the pick. They lose the, the Super John Blumberg: Bowl. Yeah. And if that had been a, uh, a catch? Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unpredictable. Unpredictable. Brett Gilliland: It’s all perspective. So what would you, uh, what would you tell yourself the guy, the John of 15 John Blumberg: years ago? Hmm. Yeah, I think if I’d look back and, um, I would, I would say be yourself, uh, trust, uh, trust, um, uh, first into the path you’ve been called to, and I very much felt it was a calling, uh, and, and to not let the day to day, uh, uh, get you down, that it is all good and everything, whether it is a success or a failure, all is good, just keep taking the next step forward. That’s good advice. Brett Gilliland: That’s great advice. What are you finding right now in, uh, Andrew and I are part of a, what we call, executive forum, and, and so, the, the, kind of the deal is all these, these, this happens to be all gentlemen, we’re in a group, we all run, uh, you know, either divisions of a company or run a company, whatever it may be, and we talk about time and time management, right? [00:39:00] And so, what do, what do you think the best leaders do, and what are they doing with their time? They run these big corporations, what are they doing with their time every day? Yeah. John Blumberg: I think they take, um, for one thing I would say they’re taking very intentional timeouts. Um, I think they’re, I think we’re past the point, um, that. Anyone humanly can sustain, uh, the information, the speed, the, the pressures, um, the demands, uh, that come our way. And so I think the leader of the future is going to become very selective. At how they, where they focus their time, that they’re going to be able to be incredible at letting go of the things that don’t matter. Uh, one of the best books I read in the last three years is called Essentialism. And I think if I don’t misquote it, it says 10 percent of what you do really matters and the other 90 percent is a waste of time. And I think when we’re trying to time manage, you’ve got to be on top of what is the most critical. And I would suggest, and you’re probably not surprised, is that [00:40:00] your values will help you see that and it’s your needs, your wants, and your behaviors that will help you execute it. So Brett Gilliland: let’s, let’s go back a little bit, actually, and let’s walk people through. They’re listening to this right now. If they’re driving down the road, whatever they’re doing, walk them through. How do you find your core values? What do you need to do? What’s John Blumberg: the exercise? Yeah. And I wish I could tell you it’s the most simple thing in the world. And, uh, I, I would suggest that it’s going to be the biggest wrestling match you will ever have in the most adventurous experience and that you’re never done. Uh, I compare it to digging a hundred foot water well. And by the way, the water is there, whether you dig it or not, you just don’t get to take advantage of it. Right. And I remember I was talking to an audience of 500 people, and, uh, I was talking about digging your water well, and I said, you know, the sad part is you get, you start digging, you start exploring, and, and I think there’s a lot of ways that you can go after it, I think there are individual journeys, um, there are data points, I mean, there’s all kinds of instrument, instruments on the marketplace that will, um, give you scientific data [00:41:00] points, um, experiences give you data points, relationships and meaningful conversations give you data points. All of that can feed in, um, to this digging process, which is why I say that, uh, you, you work on it for 15 minutes and you put it away and you work on it for 15 minutes and you put it away. And it’s over a period of time, I think in 30 days, you can come up with a, a pretty good, um, a pretty good starting version 1. 0 list. Um, but I think it’s probably a year. of, of going back and, and really honing it. And then I think it’s probably several years that you go to really, um, understand that. Um, the frustrating part, and this has been my biggest lesson, um, since the book came out, is, again, I go back to what I said earlier, this is harder than you think it is, and it takes longer, and both of those are a really good thing. Um, it takes soul searching, it takes digging, um, and there’s, in the end, nothing scientific about it. It’s an emotional journey, um, that I think little by little gets [00:42:00] uncovered. So I’m talking to this audience of 500 people and I said, so, you know, the sad part, you get five feet into the well and you know what you’re looking at? And I, uh, I said, you’re looking at dirt, the same dirt, dirt on the top. You get 25 feet, you’re looking at dirt, you get 50, you’re looking at dirt. That’s okay. I’m, I’m done with this process and you’re only really getting started. And that’s the tenacity. That’s the grit, by the way, Brett, that it takes to be able to get through it. Um, and I, so I’m now in this rhythm of asking the audience questions and so you get to 75 feet and I’m fully expecting that they’re going to be thinking dirt and somebody from the audience yells out, uh, I said, you get 75 feet. What do you see? And they said, rock. I said, that’s right. I didn’t think of that, but it, but that’s right. Because it gets harder. Yeah. Um, before, you know, it get easier, it gets harder, it gets easier, it gets harder. The persistence of digging is what gets you, um, to the answer. Now, here’s the thing, and I’ve used this on a slide now, and I said, you know, the sad part is in all your digging, um, the sad part is you will not find your core values. Of course, a lot of people say, well, what the heck? Why, why bother? Right. And I kind of [00:43:00] pause and say, the truth is they will find you. And I think that’s exactly what the truth happens to be, is that when you dig long enough, um, it eventually reveals itself. That’s how truth works. Um, and it’s, it’s a dawning on you that this is what it is. And then you label a word to name that dawning. Brett Gilliland: So, yeah, because you also think, you see the pictures too, where the, the, the people are, they’re digging for gold, what they’re digging for, and then. What they don’t see is it’s just right here on the other side, right? And they give up and they don’t get there because they can’t keep battling through the John Blumberg: dirt. That’s exactly it. Now, I don’t know if I’ve ever publicly said this, but, um, and I have to be careful about this. Um, is ultimately the words that you choose are not as near as important as the journey that took you to them. And what I mean by that, and I go back to your grit, um, you understand growth as a value in a way that I will never see it because it, it’s a journey that took you there to find that out. And so when it reveals [00:44:00] itself to you, and I don’t want to sound too, uh, kind of out there, but it is kind of out there is that your understanding is far more important than the word that you put on it. And you will know what that is by the time you’ve dug to the bottom of the well. Yeah, I Brett Gilliland: think that’s a good point because if I could put a, if I could write the word and you just showed me and it said growth, there’s a whole meaning and feeling that comes behind it. I could show the same thing to Andrew and he, Oh yeah, cool. That says growth, right? There’s a lot, there’s a big meaning John Blumberg: behind that. And he’s thinking that’s Brett Gilliland: it. Right. That’s all you got? That’s all you got. There’s 17 years of stuff in here, right? And a lot of meaning and feelings that go into that, that word. John Blumberg: So it’s big. And I will say this, and um, and we just have had the opportunity to meet, and what I would say, Brett, is it doesn’t surprise me that that’s a word that you use because it just exudes out of you. And that’s what you want your values to be. It’s so grounded. That you can’t help but live that value. And if you’re not, [00:45:00] it goes back to what you’re saying. If you’re not growing, you’re dying. I think the whole, that whole mantra plays, uh, if you’re not living your values, you are dying and you can just see that come out of you. Well, I think it’s to the people Brett Gilliland: you, you, you surround yourself with, whether it’s socially or professionally for me, it’s like, uh, it’s, it’s not anger, but it’s like, I can’t, I don’t have much time to spend with somebody that they’re not choosing to grow. Yeah. Right. I just. I can’t do it. Yeah. So I’m not saying that’s right, but that’s just the way I am. John Blumberg: Well, and I, well, you know, I, I sometimes go to events and my wife kind of calls me out on this, but you know, it’s a surface level conversations. Right. Uh, and that’s just part of my style. If I’m, if I’m at a party, uh, I I’d love to, uh, You know, come up alongside you and we have a 20 minute conversation about something meaningful. That’s a much more fun party than, you know, we’re just talking surface level. And there’s a time and place for that. Right. Um, but there’s also, um, a time and place where let’s have a meaningful conversation. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I’m terrible at the big parties of. Making small talk with everybody. I’m not good at [00:46:00] that as much as I can do this stuff. I can’t I’m not I’m not good at it Um, so share one of your core values if you will you mind doing that? Yeah, not John Blumberg: at all Um, so I I think and i’ve already mentioned it Uh, and that is vulnerability I for me I try to frame out what that means to me, but that’s what opens possibilities for me Uh, that’s what bills. Um Um, connection for me, uh, and it’s also how I think I, I deal with what we’ve talked about earlier and that is fear is that I’m willing to be vulnerable and find great strength, um, you know, within that, um, the other two are optimism. Um, and there’s a lot that drives me on hope, um, and then the other is relationship. Um, it, it’s, um, uh, I think we’re wired for relationship, and, and when you put those three together, um, there’s, there’s probably 15 things that underline what I mean by those. Um, but, but it leads with vulnerability. Brett Gilliland: Well, and I think that’s [00:47:00] huge too, because we, we’ve known each other now for a while, a whopping two hours, two and a half hours, something like that is, there’s that feeling of a deeper connection because of, You know, there was not a lot of surface y discussions downstairs at lunch, right? And so, I think for those listening, if you struggle with that, that vulnerability, uh, that transparency, it leads to a deeper relationship much, much quicker. John Blumberg: Much quicker and more meaningful experience, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Brett Gilliland: And, uh, so let, let’s talk, did you, let’s talk about your success. I mean, through your Arthur Anderson days to, to now, I mean, did you envision that success or are you more John Blumberg: shocked by it? I’m shocked every day at what, um, you know, begins to play out. Um, and I, I’d rather stand in awe, um, than, than all of a sudden think it had anything to do with me. And I will say this, that the success I’ve had, um, has had. Nothing to do with me has had everything to do with people that believed in what I was trying to do and trusted me in that [00:48:00] process. And I give it all to them. And I mean that sincerely. I don’t mean that just to sound kind of nice. There is, yeah, I don’t know if there’s any other way that I could frame that other than I love to stand in awe continually when things go well. And I’d love to learn deeply when they didn’t go so well and try to stay out of the process of both. Brett Gilliland: These are tough questions. I know that. So I apologize. But what would you do that? That one CEO, that one leader right now is listening and you could give him or her one. Message, John Blumberg: what would that be? Yeah, that’s a, uh, it’s a really good question. Um, I mean, of course, part of me wants to say, dig for your core values, go to answer. Um, um, I, I would say, um, okay, I’m just going to bottom line this love others. Um, I, I was, um, talking to Bade Al Fasad’s, an honorary accounting fraternity, 1, 500 college students and it hit me the night [00:49:00] before, I was actually up at 2 a. m. and I couldn’t sleep and we’re going to be talking about values and, uh, it really hit me that you need to talk to them about love. We need to be more loving. And so at the end of the presentation, um, I, I just simply said, you know, I hope that you’ll do everything I’ve talked about today, uh, as it relates to digging for your core and, you know, many other things that we’ve talked about. But if you don’t do anything else, I’m going to ask you this, that when you put your head on the pillow tonight and every night to follow, just ask yourself the question, um, how loving was I today? And if you do that, everything else will fall in place. And what I was amazed at when all the students came out afterwards, probably 90 percent wanted to talk about that. And I, I don’t know, I, I don’t know of a time in our world where maybe it’s every time in this world, but we need to be more loving and less divisive. Um, and, and I think maybe, um, I don’t. Call it out as a core value, um, because maybe it’s for me like integrity, um, [00:50:00] that hopefully it’s a fabric of every value. Yeah, I think Brett Gilliland: it’s too, it’s what we’re putting in our minds, right? I mean, I, I literally made a decision back in almost, I guess it was about March. You know, I’d find myself watching TV at night and I’m like, you know, I’m not, I can’t do this anymore, right? Nothing good is coming out of this. And so I think I, I truly feel maybe I’m being naive, but I truly feel as Americans, we’re doing that right there is starting to feel like there’s more love with all the bad stuff you hear. Um, but I think if we can. Turn off our televisions and spend more time talking or reading or, uh, loving on others. Um, this, this world’s gonna be a much, much better John Blumberg: place. It’ll be a much better place. And I’ve always said I hate to talk politics and religion with people that agree with me. Right. I actually like to engage in that as long as it’s not personal. Right. Um, let’s find a way that we love through that, uh, and we’re gonna learn a lot because of that. Right. Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. So talk to us, um, you know, last kind of few questions here, but talk to me about the time. Uh, and maybe you’ve had it, maybe you haven’t. Hopefully you haven’t, but, uh, it’s really a [00:51:00] time in your life that took you to your knees and how did you get through that? How did you dig yourself out of that hole? I’m assuming you’re going to talk about your core values with that, but can you share one of those moments with John Blumberg: us? Um, probably the darkest, hardest day of my life. Um, I was 13 years old, family vacation, and my father dropped dead of a fatal heart attack. And we were, I grew up in Memphis, we were driving, we were actually over in Hot Springs, Arkansas, and just had gotten there that day. And, uh, that drive back, um, was one of the darkest, hardest, uh, moments. And you talk about fear, um, um, it, it was a, it was a defining moment, um, and, and maybe, uh, what I’ve just realized really almost more in the last three years is how much I mislearned. through that. Um, because as a 13 year old, my brother, um, my oldest brother got married six weeks later. Um, they offered to postpone the wedding. My mom said, absolutely not. Uh, and my other brother went off to a Catholic [00:52:00] seminary. And, um, so we went from a family of five to a family of Two in a matter of about 12 months. And what you think of just starting high school. And I had so many people in that high school. Cause my dad was very involved. I had so many people, uh, come around me and love on me. Um, but what you feel like is I’ve got to get on top of this. I’ve got to control this. And what I realized is that I developed this gotta be in control. Gotta. And ironically, it was totally the opposite of vulnerability. And. Three years ago, my buddy Al asked me the question, um, so how did you process that? Uh, and I said, oh man, you just gotta move on. It’s kind of that pull yourself up, uh, uh, and, and haven’t really thought a whole lot about it. He said, I would suggest that you do, and it’s pretty amazing, uh, when you look back. What I never could have learned then, um, is what it revealed for me today. At the same time, it, it, I think. it helped me along the way to a point it was as good as far as it went and then I needed to learn a different lesson. Wow, [00:53:00] well thanks for sharing Brett Gilliland: that. I cannot imagine 13 years old driving and your, your father passes away. That’d be the longest drive in the history of drives on the way home. Yeah. And you John Blumberg: know, I’ve never been back to hot springs. And I probably need to go. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. He either never want to go again, or you may need to go visit, right? Need to go. Let’s go do some therapy. I hear it’s beautiful. Exactly. Exactly. So what, uh, what are you passionate about today that you wish, you know, if you just had a magic wand, you had more time to go John Blumberg: do, what would that be? That’s a really good question. Um, I, I think I live what I’m passionate about and I’m excited, um, uh, with what I do, uh, being able to come alongside, uh, Brett. I don’t know anything, um, more fulfilling to me than when somebody is willing to let you walk alongside them, um, again, in a vulnerable. Uh, kind of way. Uh, there’s nothing I’m more passionate about than to sit with somebody, uh, and be able to be a, a companion with them along, uh, their journey. So I get to do that. Um, you know, I, [00:54:00] I’m not a person that has a bunch of hobbies of, um, I played golf when I was in, you know, um, grade school and played tournaments. And I know you, you took that much, much further. Um, uh, but there’s nothing that’s a hobby for me, uh, that I would say this is my, my go to. Uh, it’s much more, I guess, about, uh, relationship and whatever we’re doing. And I get to do that through my work, but I also get to do that through my family. I get to do that with friends, and I get to do it with, you know, executives that I get to come alongside. Hashtag, Brett Gilliland: you’re just, you have to be, just feel blessed every day, right, to get to do the things you love to do. Every single day. Awesome. So, um, talk to me about the purpose, right? So I, and I just started doing this and your book actually helped with this is I’ve always had, I always know why I get, uh, get up in the morning. I know why I go do what I do. Um, but I came up with a statement, right? And so my statement now is my. My number one purpose in life is to help people see and achieve a future brighter than their [00:55:00] past, right? So I just, I know that. So help you see and achieve a future brighter than your past. And for me that seeing it as number one, because a lot of people may or may not see it, but achieving it, right? Because we can, you said it earlier, we can do anything we want to do, anything we put our mind to. Yes. Um, and so I want to help people with that. And so what would you say your John Blumberg: purpose in life is? Yeah, I, I, I guess, um, uh, and, and I, I have let go of, I guess, putting that in a sentence per se, uh, but I would say, um, help people live with integrity, um, and that’s, it’s what I do, um, there’s nothing that I’m more passionate about, uh, to do that, and if I can, if I can come alongside people and help them see that and willing to see truth for all its ugliness, uh, and all it causes to fear, Um, I, I guess it would be to live a more integrated life, not a more integrated success as much as a more integrated life, and which is the ultimate success. Uh, what I love about [00:56:00] yours is that it’s, it’s a complete celebration of growth as well. Right. Um, and not only do you help them see it, you help, um, equip them to do that. And, and that’s what a great two sided coin that is. Yeah. Thank you. Brett Gilliland: Thank you. And, and so I’m not going to give credit to this person, uh, because he may or may not be in the room. But, um. We talked about a question that he always, he’d said, that’d be a great question. Right. And it’s true. It is a good question, even though I’ll not give him credit. Life is about experiences, right? So what’s that experience, that next experience, that bucket list item for you? John Blumberg: What’s on there? That’s funny that you ask that question because my wife and I, for the first time ever last year, uh, started creating, uh, a bucket list. And, uh, we laugh sometimes that, you know, we’re having an experience. We say, we need to put this on our bucket list. Add that right now. Add it right now. Uh, because it’s, this is amazing. Yeah. And I, I, I don’t have this kind of bucket list, uh, that says it’s a grand experience or, you know, going to see this [00:57:00] thing. It’s much more, um, about simple things. Uh, and there are some, you know, big things I guess that we could add to the list, but ours are much more, um, It could be, um, I, I want to make sure that we go walk in the park, uh, a new park, um, you know, this next month, uh, and it’s, it’s going to be the everyday simple, uh, kind of thing. So I may need you, Brett, to have a bigger vision, uh, for what that, um, would be, um, but also in my bucket list is traditions. And I think one, I’m just planning this out right now. My, my son in the, um, uh, when we first moved to Chicago, he. People would ask, are you a White Sox fan or a Cubs fan? I said, Oh, I like them both. And I haven’t grown up in Memphis. I was actually a Cardinals fan. There you go. Now we can keep talking. But, um, I found out that people would realize I wasn’t from Chicago, except I liked both. So actually he started falling in love with the Cubs. So when he was in high school every day, I would, um, I would get up and read the Cubs article because I [00:58:00] knew he would talk about that. So he already knew, right? He already knew, right? And he would have that conversation as a teenager. And the more I read, the more I fell in love with the Cubs. And, um, actually as a fifth grader, one of our weak parental moments, he actually got online and signed up for season tickets. And three years ago, as a 30 year old now, he actually got season tickets. So, uh, one of the traditions we started that was a bucket list item to begin with was, uh, to go to Cubs spring training every other year. Father, son, and then we just go. And so this is our year after they won the world series last year, we thought, okay, that’s going to be a kind of a crazy year to go. Um, and this is the year we’re going to go. So for me, it’s about putting it on the list, but then it’s also about, um, continuing the traditions where they make sense. Brett Gilliland: That’s, that’s great. Thanks for sharing that last question. I give you 10 million. You can’t invest it. You can’t pay off any debts. What do you do with 10 million bucks? John Blumberg: What would I do with 10 million dollars? Um, um, you know what I would love to do is go out and invest it in those that have no [00:59:00] resources. Um, and maybe it goes back to have a great attitude. Um, uh, they, they, they do want to grow. Um, I would love to come alongside and bless them with the resources to go, uh, to go and make their dream come alive. and would want to do it in small quantities, um, and so that it would affect a lot of people. And I guess that would be my, um, my biggest dream. Brett Gilliland: I like it. And it does not surprise me that you’re going to invest in others based on, uh, what I’ve gotten to know about you and researching you and now spending time with you today. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Andrew, thank you for the introduction and, uh, thank you for the time today. It’s been great. Great to be back. And I hope you, our listeners, uh, got as much out of this as, as I got, um, getting to interview John. And, uh, I guess I didn’t ask you this. Where, where can we find more of you? So social media. Yep. So John Blumberg: yeah, most probably the best way to start it cause it’ll lead you there. And that is, uh, my website, which is, uh, Uh, Blumberg, B L U M B E R G R O I. com. [01:00:00] So Blumberg, R O I. com. And it’ll, uh, take you to my blog and, um, you know, and connect you to Facebook, Twitter, and such. Great. Brett Gilliland: We’ll find it there. And, uh, just again, thank you for being here. And I hope our listeners got a ton out of this. Cause I know I got a ton out of it as well, and lots of notes we’ll be going through here. So thank you for your time. Thanks for having me.

Dec 25, 2023 • 50min

Building the Brand with Lululemon Founder

Join host Brett Gilliland in an exclusive interview with Chip Wilson, the visionary founder of Lululemon. Discover the secrets behind Lululemon’s rise to luxury brand status and Chip’s entrepreneurial journey. Learn how he identified a new market in the ’90s, created quality products at competitive prices, and embraced personal development for success. **Key Highlights:** – ?‍♂️ Unveiling the Yoga Apparel Revolution – ? Investing in Overlooked Talent: Empowering Women in Business – ? Chip Wilson’s Focus 90 Strategy: Goal Setting for Success – ? Taking Risks and Doing Meaningful Work: Advice to the Younger Self Tune in to gain insights into Chip’s “grind” of building a business, his timeless advice, and the impactful Focus 90 strategy. Don’t miss this episode filled with inspiration and practical wisdom from the man who changed the game in athletic apparel! #Lululemon #Entrepreneurship #SuccessStories #Focus90Strategy #BusinessInnovation Watch HERE on Youtube! 00:00:14.000 –> 00:00:16.000 I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. And today, 00:00:17.000 –> 00:00:19.000 I’m so decided to be with an entrepreneur, 00:00:20.000 –> 00:00:22.000 an author. He is the founder of lululemon, 00:00:23.000 –> 00:00:25.000 and, his name is Chip Wilson Chip. How 00:00:25.000 –> 00:00:28.000 are you doing today? Fantastic, Brett. Fantastic. Awesome. 00:00:28.000 –> 00:00:30.000 Well, it’s great to have you. It’s, you’ve 00:00:30.000 –> 00:00:31.000 got a heck of a story, and I’m 00:00:31.000 –> 00:00:33.000 excited for our listeners to, hear that. Like, 00:00:33.000 –> 00:00:36.000 on every show, I always ask Chip is, 00:00:36.000 –> 00:00:38.000 it’s a big question, but what what helped 00:00:38.000 –> 00:00:39.000 make you the man you are today? Cause 00:00:39.000 –> 00:00:42.000 you are more than, obviously, the father a 00:00:42.000 –> 00:00:44.000 five boys, a husband, an entrepreneur, 00:00:44.000 –> 00:00:45.000 and an author. 00:00:45.000 –> 00:00:48.000 What helps you make all those things? 00:00:49.000 –> 00:00:51.000 So everyone wondered how much is genetics and 00:00:51.000 –> 00:00:53.000 how much is environment, and I think I 00:00:53.000 –> 00:00:55.000 had the perfect amount of both. You know, 00:00:55.000 –> 00:00:55.000 as 00:00:56.000 –> 00:00:58.000 athletic, you know, a father who is an 00:00:58.000 –> 00:01:01.000 athlete and a mom who is, home sour. 00:01:02.000 –> 00:01:04.000 And then I then I think we just 00:01:04.000 –> 00:01:06.000 never had much money. Kind of that lower 00:01:06.000 –> 00:01:08.000 kinda middle class debt. It was a you 00:01:08.000 –> 00:01:09.000 don’t make as much money as a phys 00:01:09.000 –> 00:01:10.000 ed teacher. 00:01:11.000 –> 00:01:12.000 And, but I think I had a lot 00:01:12.000 –> 00:01:15.000 of drive. And I think that that I 00:01:15.000 –> 00:01:17.000 sometimes wonder is that genetic, or is that, 00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:19.000 was I, you know, was that 00:01:20.000 –> 00:01:22.000 built into me. I don’t know. But I 00:01:22.000 –> 00:01:23.000 feel like I just wanted to succeed. I 00:01:23.000 –> 00:01:25.000 wanted to find out what was going on 00:01:25.000 –> 00:01:26.000 in the world. I wanted to add all 00:01:26.000 –> 00:01:29.000 these ideas, and I wondered if everyone else 00:01:29.000 –> 00:01:30.000 had the same idea. 00:01:31.000 –> 00:01:34.000 And so that, that drive obviously helped you 00:01:34.000 –> 00:01:36.000 very much in the, in the in the 00:01:36.000 –> 00:01:38.000 business, but we’ll we’ll talk about Lululemon in 00:01:38.000 –> 00:01:40.000 a little bit, but I know you you 00:01:40.000 –> 00:01:42.000 got into what cert you had the surf 00:01:42.000 –> 00:01:45.000 company. You had a skate company, a snowboarding 00:01:45.000 –> 00:01:45.000 company, 00:01:46.000 –> 00:01:47.000 all sorts of stuff. So tell us about 00:01:47.000 –> 00:01:48.000 those. 00:01:49.000 –> 00:01:51.000 Well, when I graduated at a university, it’s 00:01:51.000 –> 00:01:53.000 twenty five, so it’s on the eight year 00:01:53.000 –> 00:01:54.000 bachelor program. 00:01:55.000 –> 00:01:56.000 I never know that. 00:01:57.000 –> 00:01:59.000 I started to do triathlons and that was 00:01:59.000 –> 00:02:01.000 I mean, that was a long time ago. 00:02:01.000 –> 00:02:03.000 So nineteen probably eighty, I guess. And that 00:02:03.000 –> 00:02:05.000 then there was only about ten people in 00:02:05.000 –> 00:02:06.000 the world doing triathlons. 00:02:07.000 –> 00:02:08.000 I had, 00:02:10.000 –> 00:02:12.000 I quickly found out that there was no 00:02:12.000 –> 00:02:14.000 good clothing, especially for that kind of distance 00:02:14.000 –> 00:02:16.000 and a lot of rushing, a lot of 00:02:16.000 –> 00:02:19.000 issues. And because my mom was a sower 00:02:19.000 –> 00:02:22.000 and had some ideas. I started making triathlon 00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:24.000 clothing, but, of course, there wasn’t enough people 00:02:24.000 –> 00:02:25.000 to make it. 00:02:26.000 –> 00:02:29.000 I was originally from California San Diego and 00:02:29.000 –> 00:02:30.000 living in Canada. 00:02:31.000 –> 00:02:31.000 And, 00:02:32.000 –> 00:02:32.000 and so I 00:02:33.000 –> 00:02:34.000 with that, I started 00:02:35.000 –> 00:02:37.000 supplementing what I had and start bringing up 00:02:37.000 –> 00:02:40.000 surf gear from Gordon Smith and Stucy and 00:02:40.000 –> 00:02:42.000 O. B. Bellabaugh and quicksilver and that into 00:02:42.000 –> 00:02:44.000 Canada. Really the first person to bring that 00:02:44.000 –> 00:02:47.000 into Canada, kind of a a virgin territory 00:02:47.000 –> 00:02:48.000 for that market. 00:02:48.000 –> 00:02:49.000 And, 00:02:50.000 –> 00:02:52.000 And so I think that I just, 00:02:53.000 –> 00:02:53.000 that 00:02:54.000 –> 00:02:56.000 the travel and stuff didn’t go, but the 00:02:56.000 –> 00:02:59.000 surf stuff went really well. And then That 00:02:59.000 –> 00:03:01.000 kind of had its rise and fall because 00:03:01.000 –> 00:03:03.000 you start in almost every industry. You start 00:03:03.000 –> 00:03:04.000 off with three businesses. 00:03:04.000 –> 00:03:06.000 It goes to five hundred and then falls 00:03:06.000 –> 00:03:07.000 to three again. 00:03:07.000 –> 00:03:09.000 And so as that was going up and 00:03:09.000 –> 00:03:12.000 falling, then skateboarding was coming up and then 00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:13.000 falling and then snowboarding, 00:03:14.000 –> 00:03:16.000 you know, came up and then started falling 00:03:16.000 –> 00:03:18.000 too. So I I followed those general trends. 00:03:19.000 –> 00:03:21.000 And so you followed those trends, and then 00:03:21.000 –> 00:03:24.000 you saw another trend, around mindfulness and yoga, 00:03:24.000 –> 00:03:26.000 and and you started this, this little company 00:03:26.000 –> 00:03:27.000 called lululemon. 00:03:28.000 –> 00:03:30.000 So talk to us about that. I’m I’m 00:03:30.000 –> 00:03:32.000 wearing lululemon pants right now too. Hope that’s 00:03:32.000 –> 00:03:34.000 alright. I wear them all the time. 00:03:35.000 –> 00:03:36.000 Well, you never know what people are wearing 00:03:36.000 –> 00:03:39.000 behind the microphone. That’s right. Sitting down. 00:03:40.000 –> 00:03:40.000 That’s right. 00:03:42.000 –> 00:03:43.000 I think, 00:03:43.000 –> 00:03:45.000 like I said, I saw these, you 00:03:46.000 –> 00:03:49.000 know, athletic social trends, you know, rise and 00:03:49.000 –> 00:03:50.000 fall 00:03:50.000 –> 00:03:52.000 I had failed a couple times. I tried 00:03:52.000 –> 00:03:55.000 beach volleyball, and I tried mountain biking. But 00:03:55.000 –> 00:03:58.000 what I discovered is neither of those sports, 00:03:58.000 –> 00:04:01.000 which became big. No one wanted to look 00:04:01.000 –> 00:04:02.000 like that on the street. 00:04:03.000 –> 00:04:03.000 So, 00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:07.000 You know, I got I got I sold 00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:09.000 my Suresgate snowboard company, 00:04:09.000 –> 00:04:11.000 and I sat around for a Wilson, and 00:04:11.000 –> 00:04:13.000 I kinda looked around. And of course, I 00:04:13.000 –> 00:04:16.000 was injured from from falling a lot, snowboarding 00:04:16.000 –> 00:04:18.000 and skateboarding. So I started doing yoga 00:04:19.000 –> 00:04:21.000 first class that was in Vancouver type of 00:04:21.000 –> 00:04:23.000 thing, and I looked around and I went 00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:24.000 You know, this is gonna this is pretty 00:04:24.000 –> 00:04:27.000 cool. This is gonna be I could sense 00:04:27.000 –> 00:04:29.000 it went from six people to thirty people 00:04:29.000 –> 00:04:30.000 in one month 00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:31.000 And, 00:04:32.000 –> 00:04:35.000 and if I extrapolated back the seerskates snowboard 00:04:35.000 –> 00:04:36.000 business, I went, wow, this is gonna be 00:04:36.000 –> 00:04:39.000 just as big. And it’s much opportunity. 00:04:40.000 –> 00:04:43.000 So I had an expertise in technical apparel, 00:04:43.000 –> 00:04:46.000 especially first layer of stretch for women that 00:04:46.000 –> 00:04:47.000 would went under snowboard clothing. 00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:50.000 And I just started making it, a version 00:04:50.000 –> 00:04:51.000 of that for yoga. 00:04:52.000 –> 00:04:52.000 And, 00:04:53.000 –> 00:04:54.000 and then I could go into a million 00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:56.000 different ways going from there, but maybe you 00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:58.000 have another question you wanna lead with. Well, 00:04:58.000 –> 00:04:59.000 I just I think it’s, you know, it’s 00:04:59.000 –> 00:05:01.000 one thing to have an idea. It’s one 00:05:01.000 –> 00:05:03.000 thing to say, oh, you know, my mom 00:05:03.000 –> 00:05:05.000 you know, knew how to do this stuff. 00:05:05.000 –> 00:05:06.000 I know how to do that stuff. But, 00:05:06.000 –> 00:05:08.000 I mean, how do you go out and 00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:10.000 then just create this little lemon craze? And 00:05:10.000 –> 00:05:11.000 I know we could talk about that for 00:05:11.000 –> 00:05:14.000 hours, but it has become a brand that 00:05:14.000 –> 00:05:16.000 I think is, you know, in the athletic 00:05:16.000 –> 00:05:19.000 wear, obviously, but it’s also a a symbol, 00:05:19.000 –> 00:05:21.000 you know, the the kids want it. 00:05:21.000 –> 00:05:23.000 You know, moms want it, dads want it. 00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:25.000 Now, heck, my some of my boys, you 00:05:25.000 –> 00:05:27.000 know, wanna wear the t shirts and stuff. 00:05:27.000 –> 00:05:29.000 I mean, you’ve created this thing that’s that’s 00:05:29.000 –> 00:05:32.000 become a brand, a symbol. Right? And so 00:05:32.000 –> 00:05:34.000 how did that happen? Cause it doesn’t just 00:05:34.000 –> 00:05:34.000 happen overnight? 00:05:35.000 –> 00:05:38.000 Yeah. So you’re looking for the, moment, and 00:05:38.000 –> 00:05:39.000 then what to do with type of thing 00:05:39.000 –> 00:05:41.000 because of Yeah. Sense. 00:05:43.000 –> 00:05:43.000 When, 00:05:45.000 –> 00:05:47.000 so I was in the middle of this 00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:48.000 yoga Gilliland 00:05:48.000 –> 00:05:50.000 I was only like fifteen days into it. 00:05:50.000 –> 00:05:52.000 And I read an article in the newspaper 00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:54.000 where it said sixty percent of the graduates 00:05:54.000 –> 00:05:56.000 at a university for now, a woman 00:05:57.000 –> 00:05:59.000 And in nineteen ninety eight, that was a 00:05:59.000 –> 00:06:01.000 phenomenal number because when I went to university, 00:06:01.000 –> 00:06:03.000 it felt like twenty percent. 00:06:03.000 –> 00:06:05.000 Sure. Maybe because I couldn’t get any dates. 00:06:05.000 –> 00:06:07.000 It felt like twenty percent. 00:06:08.000 –> 00:06:11.000 Yeah. Right. So, it it really I mean, 00:06:11.000 –> 00:06:13.000 that was astounding to me. And it didn’t 00:06:13.000 –> 00:06:15.000 work in a lot of reading in Africa 00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:18.000 about the whole goal was to educate women 00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:19.000 because the 00:06:20.000 –> 00:06:22.000 the more educated women are than the fewer 00:06:22.000 –> 00:06:24.000 children they will have and the longer they’ll 00:06:24.000 –> 00:06:25.000 wait to have children. 00:06:25.000 –> 00:06:26.000 So I extrapolated 00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:28.000 out, and I went, oh my god, you 00:06:28.000 –> 00:06:31.000 know, for the first time ever we’re gonna 00:06:31.000 –> 00:06:32.000 end up with a brand new employee 00:06:33.000 –> 00:06:36.000 and a brand new consumer that’s consumer that’s 00:06:36.000 –> 00:06:37.000 never existed before. 00:06:37.000 –> 00:06:41.000 A highly educated university woman that now goes 00:06:41.000 –> 00:06:43.000 into the workforce and now suddenly 00:06:43.000 –> 00:06:46.000 isn’t leaving at the age of twenty four 00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:47.000 to have a Wilson 00:06:47.000 –> 00:06:50.000 And so they’re gonna wait till they’re thirty 00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:53.000 two. So that’s that’s what I extrapolated. So 00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:55.000 with that market then became the new Lululemon 00:06:56.000 –> 00:06:59.000 employee, and it him a customer that was, 00:06:59.000 –> 00:07:01.000 highly educated media savvy 00:07:02.000 –> 00:07:05.000 owned their own condo traveled with as was 00:07:05.000 –> 00:07:06.000 athletic, stylish, 00:07:06.000 –> 00:07:09.000 basically a lot of consumer spending involved. 00:07:11.000 –> 00:07:11.000 And so 00:07:12.000 –> 00:07:15.000 I went so That was there. And then 00:07:15.000 –> 00:07:18.000 also I could sense that in the nineties, 00:07:18.000 –> 00:07:20.000 there was a there was a lot of 00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:22.000 talk in the media about breast cancer for 00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:23.000 Gilliland 00:07:24.000 –> 00:07:25.000 I and I had sensed from being in 00:07:25.000 –> 00:07:27.000 the workforce and kinda and being the age 00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:28.000 I am that, 00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:31.000 prior to that, you know, woman who came 00:07:31.000 –> 00:07:31.000 into the workforce, 00:07:32.000 –> 00:07:34.000 were kinda emulating their fathers. 00:07:34.000 –> 00:07:36.000 And they were doing the three Martini lunches. 00:07:36.000 –> 00:07:38.000 They were smoking cigarettes 00:07:38.000 –> 00:07:40.000 because they thought that that’s what was successful. 00:07:41.000 –> 00:07:43.000 And I think, you know, when you combine 00:07:43.000 –> 00:07:44.000 that with the heavy dose of the pill 00:07:44.000 –> 00:07:47.000 at that time, I think it created, you 00:07:47.000 –> 00:07:47.000 know, the 00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:51.000 atmosphere for breast cancer at that time. So 00:07:51.000 –> 00:07:52.000 I think when when these, 00:07:54.000 –> 00:07:54.000 when these 00:07:55.000 –> 00:07:57.000 girls at work, twenty now gonna be twenty 00:07:57.000 –> 00:07:59.000 two to thirty two, which I call who 00:07:59.000 –> 00:08:00.000 I call super girls, 00:08:01.000 –> 00:08:04.000 had these power woman, mothers who were basically 00:08:05.000 –> 00:08:05.000 unhealthy, 00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:08.000 and these super girls just didn’t wanna live 00:08:08.000 –> 00:08:09.000 their life like that. 00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:12.000 And I think that yoga was something that 00:08:12.000 –> 00:08:12.000 was 00:08:13.000 –> 00:08:15.000 accessible. It was feminine. And what I mean, 00:08:15.000 –> 00:08:17.000 accessible, they could do at lunch hour. They 00:08:17.000 –> 00:08:19.000 could do it in the morning. Didn’t have 00:08:19.000 –> 00:08:20.000 to go to snow, you know, find the 00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:22.000 surf. You didn’t have to find the mountains. 00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:23.000 Yeah. And, 00:08:24.000 –> 00:08:26.000 and it was, yeah, so it was feminine, 00:08:26.000 –> 00:08:28.000 stylish, the whole works. And I think, 00:08:29.000 –> 00:08:31.000 when you combine that with I had a 00:08:31.000 –> 00:08:33.000 couple other ideas. Do you wanna hear them? 00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:34.000 Sure. Sure. 00:08:34.000 –> 00:08:36.000 Well, I call this I call this Supergirl 00:08:36.000 –> 00:08:39.000 Supergirls because that in the in the nineties, 00:08:40.000 –> 00:08:42.000 for the first time, you saw a girl 00:08:42.000 –> 00:08:43.000 in, 00:08:43.000 –> 00:08:45.000 with superheroes like cartoons. 00:08:46.000 –> 00:08:48.000 And so they they were wearing lycra, and 00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:50.000 they were equal in power to men. And 00:08:50.000 –> 00:08:54.000 I think that the supergirl mothers were wearing 00:08:54.000 –> 00:08:56.000 all the big power suits with the big 00:08:56.000 –> 00:08:58.000 shoulder pads looking very mannish, 00:08:58.000 –> 00:09:00.000 but who the girls were looking up to 00:09:00.000 –> 00:09:03.000 were these like lycra clad power superheroes on 00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:04.000 TV. 00:09:04.000 –> 00:09:05.000 So 00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:06.000 I also think that, 00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:10.000 in the nineties are, you had amazing the 00:09:10.000 –> 00:09:11.000 public divorces 00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:12.000 peaked. 00:09:12.000 –> 00:09:14.000 And I think you had, 00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:17.000 fathers who didn’t ever knew what to do 00:09:17.000 –> 00:09:18.000 with they with their daughters. 00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:23.000 Right. They became baseball coaches, soccer coaches, and 00:09:23.000 –> 00:09:25.000 athletic coaches. And so I think these girls 00:09:25.000 –> 00:09:28.000 became exceedingly athletic And, 00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:32.000 and I think that the, you know, basically, 00:09:32.000 –> 00:09:34.000 they those all those things kinda combine together 00:09:35.000 –> 00:09:38.000 provided the the perfect template for this new 00:09:38.000 –> 00:09:39.000 market and this new sport. 00:09:41.000 –> 00:09:43.000 So do you want me I am a 00:09:43.000 –> 00:09:45.000 pause there for a second. I’m just thinking 00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:46.000 in my mind about it it seems like 00:09:46.000 –> 00:09:48.000 you are a very deep thinker. Right? I 00:09:48.000 –> 00:09:50.000 mean, you keep think I think this. I 00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:52.000 think that I mean, you’re tying the kinda 00:09:52.000 –> 00:09:55.000 the comic wonder woman type person to the 00:09:55.000 –> 00:09:56.000 business woman today, 00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:59.000 and and you bring that together into this 00:09:59.000 –> 00:10:01.000 brand. Right? So when when you think when 00:10:01.000 –> 00:10:03.000 you say, I think. Are you a thinker? 00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:05.000 Are you sitting around in a room thinking 00:10:05.000 –> 00:10:06.000 all day? What are you doing? 00:10:07.000 –> 00:10:09.000 I’m I’m probably your reader. 00:10:09.000 –> 00:10:12.000 Okay. Phenomenal amount and all those have. I 00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:12.000 and I 00:10:13.000 –> 00:10:15.000 where’d that come from? I don’t know, but 00:10:15.000 –> 00:10:16.000 it’s 00:10:17.000 –> 00:10:19.000 You know, I would I’d read every magazine, 00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:21.000 three or four newspapers a day. 00:10:23.000 –> 00:10:25.000 I very rarely watch TV when I was 00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:26.000 young. 00:10:27.000 –> 00:10:29.000 And even to today except for Netflix is 00:10:29.000 –> 00:10:31.000 kinda taking a little bit. 00:10:32.000 –> 00:10:34.000 And I think that I just lose all 00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:34.000 extrapolated. 00:10:35.000 –> 00:10:38.000 I was extrapolating out ideas, and I was, 00:10:38.000 –> 00:10:41.000 meshing two different ideas together. 00:10:42.000 –> 00:10:44.000 And basically, what I could see three things 00:10:44.000 –> 00:10:46.000 happen very, very quickly. I would jump on 00:10:46.000 –> 00:10:48.000 it, which is kinda what I didn’t surf 00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:50.000 skate snowboard, and then again, in yoga. 00:10:51.000 –> 00:10:53.000 So I would have seen, I, the first 00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:55.000 yoga class I would have had would have 00:10:55.000 –> 00:10:57.000 had a little poster on a telephone, post 00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:59.000 a little rip off telephone. Do you know 00:10:59.000 –> 00:11:01.000 that type of thing? And then maybe a 00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000 couple days later, I would have heard two 00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:04.000 people talk 00:11:04.000 –> 00:11:06.000 in the coffee shop about yoga. 00:11:07.000 –> 00:11:08.000 And then I would have read an article 00:11:08.000 –> 00:11:10.000 about yoga in the newspaper 00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000 or something, you know, that I went, and 00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000 I’d go, oh my god. Like, I’ve I’ve 00:11:13.000 –> 00:11:17.000 never never, like, seen anything about yoga. And 00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:19.000 now three things in one week, like, 00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:22.000 That’s when an entrepreneur is someone who has 00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:25.000 an idea jumps on it. And then once 00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:27.000 once that three things happen, I mean, I 00:11:27.000 –> 00:11:29.000 can My mind immediately goes out twenty years. 00:11:30.000 –> 00:11:32.000 And it goes now. Chip is something that 00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:34.000 I should do or not do. And, 00:11:35.000 –> 00:11:36.000 At that time in my life, I could 00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:37.000 definitely have, 00:11:38.000 –> 00:11:41.000 I’ve done nothing. I had sold my my 00:11:41.000 –> 00:11:43.000 first company, and when I mean nothing, that 00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:44.000 means I’d have to job as a Brett 00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:47.000 at Starbucks to, you know, but I could’ve 00:11:47.000 –> 00:11:49.000 paid off a house and bought a car 00:11:49.000 –> 00:11:51.000 and sent my kids to, to school. So, 00:11:52.000 –> 00:11:54.000 But, you know, they decided to jump back 00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:57.000 in. The idea would do good. Yeah. So 00:11:57.000 –> 00:12:00.000 talk about the the success of lululemon, but 00:12:00.000 –> 00:12:01.000 on the flip side of that, we’re gonna 00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000 I would like to talk about what’s what’s 00:12:02.000 –> 00:12:04.000 some of the stuff that maybe brought you 00:12:04.000 –> 00:12:05.000 to your needs or some of your failures 00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000 that you publicly shared that, 00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:09.000 you know, so many of us, I think 00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:10.000 we look at people like you and we 00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000 say, oh, god. Here’s this guy that had 00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:15.000 this, you know, meteoric rise to success, but 00:12:15.000 –> 00:12:17.000 clearly it wasn’t that. And and so what 00:12:17.000 –> 00:12:18.000 are some of those failures that as a 00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:22.000 newer lululemon founder that you were bumping into, 00:12:22.000 –> 00:12:23.000 that that were really tough. 00:12:24.000 –> 00:12:25.000 Well, yeah. 00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000 Even before I see that, I think, to 00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:30.000 say twenty years, I had this company called 00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:33.000 the West Beach surf company, Gilliland 00:12:33.000 –> 00:12:35.000 it didn’t make any money. So it was 00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:37.000 every year, I thought it would do better. 00:12:37.000 –> 00:12:38.000 Every year, I thought it would do better 00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000 every year. 00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:40.000 And, 00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:42.000 at the end of the day, I had 00:12:42.000 –> 00:12:43.000 these two 00:12:46.000 –> 00:12:48.000 two retail stores of our own. We made 00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:50.000 our own clothing designed and put it in 00:12:50.000 –> 00:12:52.000 our stores And these two stores made a 00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000 million dollars a year, and these two and 00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:57.000 these mid this international wholesale business we had 00:12:57.000 –> 00:12:58.000 lost a million dollars a year. 00:12:59.000 –> 00:13:01.000 So what I’m really getting at there is 00:13:01.000 –> 00:13:03.000 that there was, like, twenty years of learning. 00:13:03.000 –> 00:13:05.000 And then to be able to sell that 00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:08.000 and sit back and go, okay. What didn’t 00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000 work about that and what did work about 00:13:10.000 –> 00:13:12.000 it? So what did work about it is 00:13:12.000 –> 00:13:14.000 the vertical retailer, get getting rid of the 00:13:14.000 –> 00:13:15.000 wholesaler. 00:13:16.000 –> 00:13:19.000 Now almost everybody gets into wholesale because you 00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:21.000 can make a few samples, show it to 00:13:21.000 –> 00:13:22.000 a lot of people, get a lot of 00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:25.000 orders, and then go to a manufacturer, get 00:13:25.000 –> 00:13:26.000 it done. But then you have to then 00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:29.000 there’s a big, big middle man in between 00:13:29.000 –> 00:13:31.000 that’s taking a lot of the profit. 00:13:31.000 –> 00:13:32.000 So 00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:35.000 I’m I’m getting around to your question. Oh, 00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:38.000 this is great. But it’s it’s it was 00:13:38.000 –> 00:13:39.000 a matter of 00:13:39.000 –> 00:13:41.000 I had to get to five stores. 00:13:42.000 –> 00:13:44.000 In order to get economy of scale production 00:13:45.000 –> 00:13:47.000 in order to get my cost down on 00:13:47.000 –> 00:13:49.000 my product to make any product. 00:13:49.000 –> 00:13:51.000 And when you come out with a brand 00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000 new brand and a net brand new product 00:13:54.000 –> 00:13:56.000 with no marketing dollars, 00:13:56.000 –> 00:13:58.000 zero, and none, 00:13:58.000 –> 00:13:59.000 then 00:13:59.000 –> 00:14:00.000 then that’s a struggle. 00:14:01.000 –> 00:14:03.000 And that’s what every almost every entrepreneur that 00:14:03.000 –> 00:14:05.000 goes into anything that needs mass production, 00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:07.000 goes through. 00:14:07.000 –> 00:14:08.000 So 00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:10.000 I borrowed I bought a house. I bought 00:14:10.000 –> 00:14:12.000 a house for about half a million dollars 00:14:12.000 –> 00:14:15.000 in nineteen ninety eight. I brought two hundred 00:14:15.000 –> 00:14:17.000 million two hundred thousand on it. 00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:19.000 Got through about a year, 00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:22.000 borrowed another two hundred thousand dollars on it. 00:14:22.000 –> 00:14:22.000 And, 00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000 and then, and then that’s it. Right? And 00:14:26.000 –> 00:14:28.000 then I ran out of that And then 00:14:28.000 –> 00:14:30.000 I had done some wholesale because I had 00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:32.000 to do wholesale in order to get my 00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:34.000 economy of scale numbers up, that company went 00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:35.000 bankrupt. 00:14:36.000 –> 00:14:37.000 And so now I didn’t have enough money 00:14:37.000 –> 00:14:38.000 to pay my employees. 00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:40.000 And, 00:14:40.000 –> 00:14:42.000 so I got a job, 00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000 West Beach moved back from Portland back to 00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:47.000 Vancouver, and they offered me my job to 00:14:47.000 –> 00:14:49.000 be CEO. So I took that job in 00:14:49.000 –> 00:14:51.000 order to fund Lou Gilliland 00:14:51.000 –> 00:14:53.000 then we ran out of that money. 00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000 And then I if I hadn’t and then 00:14:55.000 –> 00:14:58.000 that Christmas, if I hadn’t got fired from 00:14:58.000 –> 00:15:00.000 West Beach, because they con they really combine 00:15:00.000 –> 00:15:03.000 SIMs skateboards in West Beach, our West Beach, 00:15:04.000 –> 00:15:06.000 snowboard together, and so that CEO took over. 00:15:06.000 –> 00:15:09.000 So I got a fifty thousand dollar severance. 00:15:09.000 –> 00:15:11.000 If it wasn’t for that fifty Little little 00:15:11.000 –> 00:15:12.000 grading room. 00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:14.000 It never would have happened. 00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000 So there was a bunch of things in 00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:17.000 there that, 00:15:18.000 –> 00:15:20.000 and actually another thing that happened is that 00:15:20.000 –> 00:15:23.000 the Vancouver Housing prices were going up so 00:15:23.000 –> 00:15:23.000 fast. 00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000 That I was able actually to take another 00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:26.000 hundred thousand, 00:15:27.000 –> 00:15:29.000 you know, at that point. Right. So there 00:15:29.000 –> 00:15:31.000 it was I was mortgaged to the Wilson, 00:15:31.000 –> 00:15:33.000 and had everything in this business, and it 00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:35.000 was either gonna work or I was in 00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:36.000 a lot of trouble. 00:15:37.000 –> 00:15:40.000 Yeah. Or and homeless. Right? So it’s but 00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000 talk about that because there’s a lot of 00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:43.000 learning even just in that is a lot 00:15:43.000 –> 00:15:45.000 of people are are listening this. Right? They 00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:46.000 may be driving on the road. They may 00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000 be in their and they’re not happy. They’ve 00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:51.000 got this great idea, this vision that’s twenty 00:15:51.000 –> 00:15:52.000 years long, 00:15:52.000 –> 00:15:54.000 but a lot of people are scared to 00:15:54.000 –> 00:15:55.000 go take 00:15:55.000 –> 00:15:57.000 three loans off their house, right, and going 00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000 to Brett. And as you would say, push 00:15:59.000 –> 00:16:00.000 all the chips in. Right? A lot of 00:16:00.000 –> 00:16:01.000 people are scared to do that. So what 00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000 was it about you that was different? Do 00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:03.000 you think? 00:16:04.000 –> 00:16:06.000 Well, I think for me, because I’d seen 00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000 it three times before in the search gauge 00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000 somewhere business, I I had an idea of 00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:13.000 where was going. I also had f evidence 00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:17.000 of this new business, this new business model 00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:18.000 of being vertical and not wholesale. 00:16:19.000 –> 00:16:21.000 I could also sense that whoever got into 00:16:21.000 –> 00:16:24.000 a lululemon product, you could see in their 00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:27.000 eyes. You could see how they feel. They 00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:29.000 when they bought the the clothing, they just 00:16:29.000 –> 00:16:31.000 didn’t buy one thing. They were buying three 00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:31.000 things. 00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:32.000 And 00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:34.000 it it wasn’t, 00:16:37.000 –> 00:16:38.000 It was just like I had to have 00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000 faith because I knew I had the right 00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:43.000 product at the right time for the right 00:16:43.000 –> 00:16:44.000 market. And, 00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:47.000 and then I had to let myself, I 00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:48.000 wanted to let word-of-mouth 00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:49.000 make it work. 00:16:50.000 –> 00:16:51.000 And, 00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:53.000 anyway, but you’re getting back to the people 00:16:53.000 –> 00:16:55.000 that are sitting on the freeway listening to 00:16:55.000 –> 00:16:58.000 it. I think there’s two things for me, 00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000 and that is if I was sitting on 00:17:00.000 –> 00:17:02.000 my deathbed and I didn’t do it, would 00:17:02.000 –> 00:17:04.000 I always be regretting it? I only have 00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:05.000 life to live. 00:17:05.000 –> 00:17:06.000 And 00:17:06.000 –> 00:17:08.000 is it a life worth living? 00:17:09.000 –> 00:17:10.000 And I think the other thing on the 00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000 other side I look at, which is quite 00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:15.000 recent, would my twelve year old self be 00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:16.000 proud of me today? 00:17:17.000 –> 00:17:20.000 And and that really is an interesting thought 00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:21.000 because it goes, 00:17:21.000 –> 00:17:24.000 you know, like, did I did I They 00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:25.000 play in life of fear and do they 00:17:25.000 –> 00:17:27.000 live a life of possibility. 00:17:29.000 –> 00:17:30.000 She’s writing that down. Would my twelve year 00:17:30.000 –> 00:17:32.000 old self be proud of me today? That’s 00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:34.000 that’s phenomenal. Gilliland 00:17:34.000 –> 00:17:36.000 I think too, it’s it has become this, 00:17:36.000 –> 00:17:39.000 like, luxury brand. Right? It it’s whether you 00:17:39.000 –> 00:17:41.000 have your iPhone and a lululemon 00:17:42.000 –> 00:17:44.000 pants and your you know, Louis Vuitton purse, 00:17:44.000 –> 00:17:46.000 right, for the women, you know, in the 00:17:46.000 –> 00:17:48.000 world. And and it’s but how does that 00:17:48.000 –> 00:17:50.000 happen to win at the time? I guess 00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:52.000 it really wasn’t a lot of competition, but 00:17:52.000 –> 00:17:54.000 you’re still able now to go out and 00:17:54.000 –> 00:17:56.000 sell a hundred and twenty dollar pair of 00:17:56.000 –> 00:17:57.000 pants in that world, right, a pair of 00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:59.000 yoga pants when everybody else wants to charge 00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:01.000 fifty bucks. I mean, how do you get 00:18:01.000 –> 00:18:01.000 away with that? 00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:03.000 Well, because, 00:18:04.000 –> 00:18:06.000 people are under the perception that it’s the 00:18:06.000 –> 00:18:07.000 same product. 00:18:08.000 –> 00:18:09.000 Yeah. It’s not. At the end of the 00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:10.000 day, 00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:12.000 The idea 00:18:13.000 –> 00:18:15.000 was to make a better quality product at 00:18:15.000 –> 00:18:17.000 a better price than the competition. 00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:20.000 The fact is is the competition can’t make 00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:22.000 a better product than the them. And the 00:18:22.000 –> 00:18:24.000 reason is is because Lu Lemma’s vertical 00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:28.000 doesn’t have to doesn’t have any wholesale. So 00:18:28.000 –> 00:18:30.000 it can make because it it only sells 00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:32.000 to itself. It doesn’t have to have the 00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:33.000 same, 00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:36.000 markups. 00:18:37.000 –> 00:18:38.000 So what am I saying there? 00:18:40.000 –> 00:18:43.000 So what what ends up, because Lululemon can 00:18:43.000 –> 00:18:44.000 make a better quality product at a better 00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:47.000 price, it’s goods are made out of Wilson. 00:18:47.000 –> 00:18:50.000 Not polyester. So polyester stinks, 00:18:50.000 –> 00:18:51.000 and polyester 00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000 doesn’t feel the same way that nylon does. 00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000 It doesn’t it doesn’t combine with the lycra 00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:57.000 heart. 00:18:57.000 –> 00:18:58.000 Or the, 00:18:59.000 –> 00:19:00.000 or the technical 00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:04.000 properties that we can put inside fibers can 00:19:04.000 –> 00:19:06.000 go inside nylon so much better than polyester. 00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000 So the, you know, the anti stain anti 00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:10.000 wicking, 00:19:11.000 –> 00:19:12.000 the breathability, 00:19:13.000 –> 00:19:15.000 it’s just an entirely different product. 00:19:15.000 –> 00:19:16.000 But 00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:18.000 you can’t really flu lemon is was set 00:19:18.000 –> 00:19:21.000 up never to kinda like be a raw 00:19:21.000 –> 00:19:24.000 raw about itself. You know, so it doesn’t 00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:25.000 have to be We put all our money 00:19:25.000 –> 00:19:27.000 into training and development of people and the 00:19:27.000 –> 00:19:30.000 quality of the product, and we let people 00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:32.000 talk for the for it for the product. 00:19:32.000 –> 00:19:34.000 While you’re talking about that, I know personal 00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:36.000 development was a big deal for you personally, 00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:37.000 but also was a really big deal for 00:19:37.000 –> 00:19:39.000 your employees. So talk about that and what 00:19:39.000 –> 00:19:41.000 role that played in the company. 00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:45.000 Well, I was selfish and that I when 00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:47.000 I started Lou Lem and I just decided 00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.000 I never wanted to be with anybody, I 00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:51.000 didn’t who wasn’t phenomenal Wilson Brett, and I 00:19:51.000 –> 00:19:52.000 wanted to go to work with every day. 00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000 That’s where I spent all my time. 00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:55.000 So 00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:57.000 so from that point of view, I just 00:19:57.000 –> 00:19:58.000 want people to know that it was a 00:19:58.000 –> 00:19:59.000 selfish thing, 00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:00.000 but And, 00:20:01.000 –> 00:20:03.000 but I also knew that 00:20:04.000 –> 00:20:06.000 that suddenly you had all these women that 00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:08.000 were out of the universe see. And no 00:20:08.000 –> 00:20:10.000 and I think I was the only person 00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:13.000 that could really see that they were gonna 00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:15.000 be around for at least eight years, nine 00:20:15.000 –> 00:20:17.000 years before they had before they had a 00:20:17.000 –> 00:20:18.000 family. 00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:21.000 So they were really worth investing in. And 00:20:21.000 –> 00:20:24.000 I gotta get no other company was investing 00:20:24.000 –> 00:20:26.000 in women at that time. It just it 00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:28.000 was just no return on it. 00:20:28.000 –> 00:20:29.000 So 00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:32.000 so to be so I think the woman 00:20:32.000 –> 00:20:34.000 that came to Lou, Gilliland, like, they were 00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:37.000 ready for it. They wanted something. And because, 00:20:39.000 –> 00:20:42.000 personal development at that time was very unmasked 00:20:42.000 –> 00:20:44.000 masculine, but very feminine. I think Chip is 00:20:44.000 –> 00:20:46.000 the other thing that made Lou lemon work, 00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:49.000 and that woman were really willing to take 00:20:49.000 –> 00:20:50.000 on, like, 00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:53.000 who am I and how am I how 00:20:53.000 –> 00:20:54.000 am I the most effective? 00:20:54.000 –> 00:20:56.000 How do I communicate? 00:20:57.000 –> 00:20:58.000 When, you know, what is responsibility? 00:20:59.000 –> 00:21:00.000 What is integrity? 00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:02.000 You know, these things that I think men 00:21:02.000 –> 00:21:04.000 were masking, but women were really willing to 00:21:04.000 –> 00:21:06.000 face up to. So 00:21:07.000 –> 00:21:09.000 our whole program then was set up around 00:21:09.000 –> 00:21:10.000 those concepts, 00:21:11.000 –> 00:21:11.000 integrity 00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:13.000 responsibility, 00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:15.000 and, which everyone’s 00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:18.000 everyone says that. Right? But here’s Here’s the 00:21:18.000 –> 00:21:19.000 thing about integrity. 00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:23.000 And everyone says they have integrity, 00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:25.000 but inside a company, if everyone has a 00:21:25.000 –> 00:21:28.000 different definition of integrity, And in fact, there 00:21:28.000 –> 00:21:29.000 is no integrity. 00:21:31.000 –> 00:21:33.000 So the company has to have one definition 00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:37.000 of integrity, which then is then everyone knows 00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:37.000 what it is. 00:21:38.000 –> 00:21:40.000 So out of there are the four, 00:21:40.000 –> 00:21:43.000 platforms that we used, and I would suggest 00:21:43.000 –> 00:21:45.000 this any entrepreneur, it doesn’t have to be 00:21:45.000 –> 00:21:47.000 the ones that I set out. 00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000 When we so ones we use were seven 00:21:49.000 –> 00:21:51.000 habits of highly effective people, 00:21:51.000 –> 00:21:53.000 the book Good to Great, which I think 00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000 is is Chip book ever. 00:21:56.000 –> 00:21:58.000 The psychology of achievement by Brian Tracy, 00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:00.000 And inside of that is an hour of 00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:02.000 the psychology of why people do and do 00:22:02.000 –> 00:22:04.000 not goal set. 00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:07.000 And then the landmark form course, which really 00:22:07.000 –> 00:22:07.000 sets 00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:09.000 What is responsibility? 00:22:09.000 –> 00:22:12.000 What is integrity? And how do people? What’s 00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:15.000 the psychology about? How and why people communicate? 00:22:15.000 –> 00:22:16.000 So you did that. So you had them 00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000 read those, those four books or go through 00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:20.000 those programs. And then what was what was 00:22:20.000 –> 00:22:23.000 the the accountability to that? So, yeah, yeah, 00:22:23.000 –> 00:22:25.000 I read it, or is it Now now 00:22:25.000 –> 00:22:26.000 there’s a, you know, an hour meeting to 00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:28.000 talk about the book. What was that like? 00:22:29.000 –> 00:22:29.000 Yeah. 00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:30.000 So 00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000 one, two things. One, we set up a 00:22:32.000 –> 00:22:33.000 linguistic abstractions. 00:22:33.000 –> 00:22:36.000 We had about thirty terms and definitions that 00:22:36.000 –> 00:22:38.000 that came out of these books that we 00:22:38.000 –> 00:22:40.000 use as our platform for communication. 00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:43.000 The other thing we did is that 00:22:44.000 –> 00:22:47.000 And Chip is this is actually the fascinating 00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:47.000 part. 00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:50.000 So we were so big on goal setting. 00:22:50.000 –> 00:22:53.000 So In a goal then, a goal is 00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:55.000 only a differentiates from a vision because a 00:22:55.000 –> 00:22:57.000 goal has is quantifiable 00:22:57.000 –> 00:22:58.000 with a by windy. 00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:00.000 So 00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:03.000 I’m gonna take something pretty simple. So 00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000 I’m sitting there. I’m two hundred and forty 00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000 two pounds, and I go, okay. 00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:11.000 By next December thirty first two thousand and 00:23:11.000 –> 00:23:11.000 twenty, 00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:15.000 I am two hundred and thirty pounds. Okay. 00:23:15.000 –> 00:23:16.000 That’s a goal. Quantifiable 00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:18.000 with the buy win date. It could be 00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:21.000 things like I will take my family to 00:23:21.000 –> 00:23:22.000 Croatia 00:23:22.000 –> 00:23:23.000 for seven days 00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:26.000 sometime next, you know, in the year 02:20, 00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:27.000 something like that. Yep. 00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000 We had them split between health, business, and, 00:23:31.000 –> 00:23:32.000 and personal. Now, interesting thing 00:23:33.000 –> 00:23:33.000 about 00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:37.000 that I’ve discovered about goal setting and it 00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:40.000 really came from the landmark about creating, 00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:43.000 our present from the future, not from the 00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:44.000 past. 00:23:45.000 –> 00:23:47.000 So I found that even I was setting 00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:49.000 my goals based on the past. So I’m 00:23:49.000 –> 00:23:51.000 two hundred and forty two pounds, and I 00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:53.000 wanna be two hundred and thirty based on 00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000 being two hundred and forty two pounds. 00:23:56.000 –> 00:23:57.000 But if I was to wake up in 00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000 the hospital with amnesia and I had no 00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:02.000 idea what how much I weighed or or 00:24:02.000 –> 00:24:03.000 anything, 00:24:03.000 –> 00:24:06.000 and I had no past history at all. 00:24:06.000 –> 00:24:08.000 And I went and researched what it six 00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:11.000 foot three, sixty four year old man, 00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000 should weigh, you know, it would say two 00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:14.000 hundred and eight pounds. 00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:17.000 So you can see the difference in goal 00:24:17.000 –> 00:24:20.000 setting between setting goals from a unknown future 00:24:20.000 –> 00:24:23.000 as opposed to, a constrained past. 00:24:23.000 –> 00:24:26.000 And the difference would have been, what, twelve 00:24:26.000 –> 00:24:26.000 pounds. 00:24:27.000 –> 00:24:29.000 And that would have would have been a 00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:31.000 massive difference. But, and I only use that 00:24:31.000 –> 00:24:33.000 because it’s easy numbers to use. 00:24:34.000 –> 00:24:36.000 But when people think about, you know, their 00:24:36.000 –> 00:24:38.000 career, how much money they wanna make, or 00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000 how, how much time they wanna put into 00:24:40.000 –> 00:24:43.000 loving their, their, their spouse, or How much 00:24:43.000 –> 00:24:45.000 time they wanna spend with their children, these 00:24:45.000 –> 00:24:48.000 those that twelve pounds is ten percent, which 00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:49.000 is what makes things work for, don’t work 00:24:49.000 –> 00:24:51.000 in line. Yeah. That’s the game changer. Isn’t 00:24:51.000 –> 00:24:53.000 it? So how did you drive that in 00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:55.000 your culture? I mean, what you personally, I 00:24:55.000 –> 00:24:57.000 know, obviously, as the the founder, CEO, the 00:24:57.000 –> 00:25:00.000 leader, the everything of that company early on, 00:25:00.000 –> 00:25:02.000 How did you personally drive culture? 00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000 Well, 00:25:05.000 –> 00:25:08.000 I’ve I actually once I set it the 00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:10.000 template up, as I said, about so many 00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:12.000 things at Lululemon, I think I 00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000 I set a template up, and then we 00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:17.000 just had these amazing people that just took 00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:18.000 it and ran 00:25:19.000 –> 00:25:21.000 I’m kind of an idea guy. I’m not 00:25:21.000 –> 00:25:23.000 a structural Wilson, and, 00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:24.000 but 00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:26.000 I think that 00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:29.000 There was something in these goals that had 00:25:29.000 –> 00:25:31.000 people’s lives really worked for them. And, of 00:25:31.000 –> 00:25:32.000 course, 00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:34.000 Lou lemon, not only because of the product 00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000 and the business model, but because of the 00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:38.000 type of people we have ended up making 00:25:38.000 –> 00:25:40.000 so much money. It was almost a self, 00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000 what do they call that? A self, 00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:46.000 prophecy. Prophecy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s gonna 00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:47.000 happen. 00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:50.000 But we had a template for goal setting, 00:25:51.000 –> 00:25:53.000 in eighteen goals. So we set goals for 00:25:53.000 –> 00:25:55.000 First off, you said a vision for your 00:25:55.000 –> 00:25:58.000 life, like ten years out. So mine would 00:25:58.000 –> 00:26:00.000 have been, you know, mine was like twenty 00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:01.000 or thirty years out. It was I’m gonna 00:26:01.000 –> 00:26:04.000 be sitting around a table at Thanksgiving with 00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:06.000 my children, grandchildren, and I’m gonna they’re all 00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000 gonna be laughing at me because I’m old 00:26:08.000 –> 00:26:10.000 and crazy. You know? I mean, if that 00:26:10.000 –> 00:26:12.000 happens that, you know, at at 00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:14.000 eighty five or something, then I’m gonna be 00:26:14.000 –> 00:26:16.000 a happy man. Right? Yes. So when I 00:26:16.000 –> 00:26:18.000 start working my goals back from there, so 00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:19.000 What are the ten year goals I have 00:26:19.000 –> 00:26:21.000 to have? What are that five year goals 00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000 and what are the one year goals? And 00:26:23.000 –> 00:26:24.000 when you start at the top of the 00:26:24.000 –> 00:26:26.000 vision, you work back that it makes it 00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:28.000 pretty easy to do one year goals. Seeing 00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:30.000 where you have to get in the five 00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:32.000 and ten. Yep. Yeah. I don’t disagree with 00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000 that. And I think, and and I’ll just 00:26:33.000 –> 00:26:35.000 give you my concept if if and give 00:26:35.000 –> 00:26:37.000 me your feedback on Chip, but one of 00:26:37.000 –> 00:26:38.000 them is I call it Focus ninety. So 00:26:38.000 –> 00:26:40.000 when I walk in my office door every 00:26:40.000 –> 00:26:43.000 day, I Brett my briefcase down, I get 00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:45.000 my water, I know the things I gotta 00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000 do. I got four things I gotta do 00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000 the first ninety minutes of every day. And 00:26:49.000 –> 00:26:51.000 if I can win that moment, I’ll win 00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000 the rest of the day. Right? And then 00:26:52.000 –> 00:26:54.000 But my ten year goal, my five year 00:26:54.000 –> 00:26:57.000 goal, my one year goal, and my ninety 00:26:57.000 –> 00:26:58.000 day goals are all written on that same 00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:00.000 piece of paper, and I read it every 00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:00.000 morning. 00:27:01.000 –> 00:27:03.000 Good for you. Well, that’s probably why you 00:27:03.000 –> 00:27:04.000 are what you are. 00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:06.000 Yeah. But your I mean, your thoughts on 00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:07.000 that. Right? I mean, that’s probably your habits 00:27:07.000 –> 00:27:09.000 and your rituals when you were early in 00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:11.000 your career, those were the things you were 00:27:11.000 –> 00:27:12.000 doing. Right? So if you can if you 00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:13.000 can give us a a thought of a 00:27:13.000 –> 00:27:14.000 goal, I know you said at one point 00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:17.000 you wanted to open five lululemons, but What’s 00:27:17.000 –> 00:27:18.000 an example? Because you don’t probably say I 00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:20.000 wanna sell one million pair of pants or 00:27:20.000 –> 00:27:23.000 I wanna make ten million dollars. I mean, 00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:25.000 what were those goals at that time? 00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:26.000 Well, 00:27:27.000 –> 00:27:29.000 before I say Lou Lumen, there’s this one 00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:31.000 I was a competitive summer when I was 00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000 young. So I think So they had age 00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:36.000 groups ten and under eleven and 12:13, fourteen. 00:27:36.000 –> 00:27:36.000 So 00:27:37.000 –> 00:27:39.000 you knew that by the age of fourteen, 00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:41.000 that was the Canadian record. So speak or 00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:44.000 the American record, whatever you wanna call it. 00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:44.000 And 00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000 and when you turn fifteen, 00:27:46.000 –> 00:27:48.000 you had to break break the record by 00:27:48.000 –> 00:27:50.000 that day or you did So it was 00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:53.000 automatic goal setting. I, you know, I will 00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000 swim the hundred backstroke in x time 00:27:57.000 –> 00:27:59.000 by the age of my fifteenth birthday. So 00:27:59.000 –> 00:28:00.000 that type of thing. 00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:01.000 So 00:28:01.000 –> 00:28:04.000 for us, for me, I remember my wife 00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000 and I originally 00:28:05.000 –> 00:28:07.000 setting out our goals. We had no money. 00:28:07.000 –> 00:28:09.000 We were in debt up to our eyeballs. 00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:12.000 And, but, you know, we were the template 00:28:12.000 –> 00:28:14.000 for the everyone else in the in the 00:28:14.000 –> 00:28:16.000 company My wife was the first designer, and 00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000 so we were in it together. And, 00:28:19.000 –> 00:28:22.000 so we decided we were going to have 00:28:22.000 –> 00:28:24.000 in ten years, we were gonna have thirty 00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:25.000 million dollars in the bank. We were gonna 00:28:25.000 –> 00:28:26.000 have, 00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:28.000 a ten million dollar house on the ocean, 00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:30.000 and we were gonna have 00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:33.000 And then what was it beyond that? Those 00:28:33.000 –> 00:28:36.000 are the material ones, which are really easy 00:28:36.000 –> 00:28:38.000 for me to remember because it happened. 00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:41.000 Now what’s interesting about that is because we 00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:43.000 had that set in, 00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:45.000 at a certain point when Lou Lemney came 00:28:45.000 –> 00:28:46.000 incredibly 00:28:50.000 –> 00:28:52.000 strong, and we were our cash flow was 00:28:52.000 –> 00:28:52.000 unbelievable. 00:28:54.000 –> 00:28:55.000 We 00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000 We did. We decided that we were gonna 00:28:57.000 –> 00:29:00.000 prioritize family, and we were gonna prioritize the 00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:01.000 goals that we’d set. 00:29:01.000 –> 00:29:04.000 So then we just that decision then had 00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:05.000 to sell to private equity. 00:29:06.000 –> 00:29:08.000 We didn’t have to sell to private equity. 00:29:08.000 –> 00:29:10.000 We didn’t have to end up going public. 00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:12.000 But we, as a family, have these Gilliland 00:29:12.000 –> 00:29:15.000 that those goals are then driving our decision. 00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:16.000 Yep. 00:29:16.000 –> 00:29:19.000 Makes total sense. Right? The the personal vision, 00:29:19.000 –> 00:29:21.000 the personal goals are driven by the vehicle 00:29:21.000 –> 00:29:23.000 that you happen to be sitting in. Right? 00:29:23.000 –> 00:29:25.000 And that’s, for you, that was Lewis Lemmon. 00:29:25.000 –> 00:29:27.000 So what changed for you when you were 00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:29.000 in debt up to your eyeballs, as you 00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:32.000 said, and now became massively successful financially. 00:29:33.000 –> 00:29:34.000 What changed? 00:29:36.000 –> 00:29:37.000 I don’t 00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:40.000 well, I don’t think anything changed out. Yeah. 00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:42.000 By selling, of course, I lost control of 00:29:42.000 –> 00:29:45.000 Lou Gilliland that is That’s another story. 00:29:46.000 –> 00:29:48.000 Because I started to lululemon quite late in 00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:51.000 life, I mean, sometimes I get labeled colonel 00:29:51.000 –> 00:29:53.000 Sanders about starting businesses late. 00:29:54.000 –> 00:29:55.000 You know, that was, I guess, that was 00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:57.000 about forty two when I started, but Lou 00:29:57.000 –> 00:29:59.000 Lemon really didn’t, you know, come to any 00:29:59.000 –> 00:30:01.000 success till I was fifty. 00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000 And, you know, those eight years were, like, 00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:06.000 I said, a struggle to get there. 00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:08.000 But it was, 00:30:08.000 –> 00:30:11.000 so once you’re fifty, it’s I don’t think 00:30:11.000 –> 00:30:14.000 anyone changes. You know, like, it’s the things 00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000 that were all as important to me was, 00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:18.000 you know, course, Gilliland because without health, you 00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:20.000 know, that your ability to enjoy your family 00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:22.000 is is very small. 00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:26.000 And, you know, I think it’s it comes 00:30:26.000 –> 00:30:29.000 down to Matt’s law’s hierarchy of needs. And, 00:30:29.000 –> 00:30:31.000 you know, first off, you gotta take care 00:30:31.000 –> 00:30:34.000 of survival and, and reproduction. And once that’s 00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:37.000 occurred, then you start moving into 00:30:37.000 –> 00:30:38.000 longevity 00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:41.000 and relay, you know, like, healthy relationships. 00:30:41.000 –> 00:30:43.000 And I think that’s where my my priorities 00:30:43.000 –> 00:30:44.000 always. 00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000 Well, I think it’s it’s neat to hear 00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:47.000 you say that too because people, you know, 00:30:47.000 –> 00:30:48.000 I’m in the money business. That’s what we 00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:51.000 do every day. And and so people think 00:30:51.000 –> 00:30:53.000 once they reach these certain levels, 00:30:53.000 –> 00:30:55.000 right, whether it’s ten million or a hundred 00:30:55.000 –> 00:30:58.000 million or a billion or ten Wilson, that 00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000 that’s gonna be the trigger point for something 00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:01.000 in their life. And and all the successful 00:31:01.000 –> 00:31:03.000 people I get to talk to with the 00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:03.000 people like yourself, 00:31:04.000 –> 00:31:06.000 wasn’t this moment if I have x in 00:31:06.000 –> 00:31:08.000 the bank, and now my life is completely 00:31:08.000 –> 00:31:11.000 different. Right? Yeah. No. I mean, what money 00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:13.000 does allow someone to buy its time. 00:31:14.000 –> 00:31:16.000 And, some sixty four. 00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:17.000 I, I mean, 00:31:18.000 –> 00:31:20.000 you can get where where, like, I have 00:31:20.000 –> 00:31:22.000 a driver. You know, and I have a 00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000 driver and people go, oh my god. That’s 00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000 so ostentatious, but it’s only different than having 00:31:26.000 –> 00:31:29.000 an executive assistant or having a gardener at 00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:31.000 your house. You know, if they if I 00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:33.000 can pay that person twenty five dollars an 00:31:33.000 –> 00:31:35.000 hour, and I can do three hundred dollars 00:31:35.000 –> 00:31:37.000 worth of work at the time he drives 00:31:37.000 –> 00:31:39.000 me to my workout and back, then I 00:31:39.000 –> 00:31:42.000 make money on that. So it it I, 00:31:42.000 –> 00:31:45.000 and my whole idea behind driving, saving time 00:31:45.000 –> 00:31:46.000 is so I can be with my children 00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000 and family because my highest priority. So what’s 00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:51.000 that dude or, or or female? What were 00:31:51.000 –> 00:31:53.000 they doing right now? As we we’re speaking 00:31:53.000 –> 00:31:55.000 here today, where’s the driver? Setting outside waiting 00:31:55.000 –> 00:31:56.000 or are they at home waiting for the 00:31:56.000 –> 00:31:57.000 end of the day? 00:31:58.000 –> 00:32:00.000 No. Because often I’ll walk home or things 00:32:00.000 –> 00:32:02.000 like that. So I, you know, especially in 00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:04.000 the summertime. So, no, they’ll be, they take 00:32:04.000 –> 00:32:06.000 care of. We have a couple of houses 00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000 and I’ll be taking care of some, renovations 00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:10.000 that we have going on. Nice. You know, 00:32:10.000 –> 00:32:12.000 if the guy card needs filled with gas, 00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:14.000 I’ll do that, or I need to, you 00:32:14.000 –> 00:32:16.000 know, all those All those things that you 00:32:16.000 –> 00:32:18.000 you always wished you had someone to do, 00:32:18.000 –> 00:32:20.000 but it doesn’t do them. I got that. 00:32:20.000 –> 00:32:22.000 You got it. I’m I’m giving you a 00:32:22.000 –> 00:32:25.000 fist pump right there. That that’s awesome. So 00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:26.000 what are your habits when you were on 00:32:26.000 –> 00:32:29.000 the grind, versus today? I think we’ll talk 00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:30.000 about both of them if we can. But 00:32:30.000 –> 00:32:32.000 what were the habits and rituals that the 00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:34.000 no mis items that you had do during 00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:34.000 the grind. 00:32:35.000 –> 00:32:38.000 During the grind of, building a business. Building 00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:39.000 a business. I mean, it’s, you know, again, 00:32:39.000 –> 00:32:41.000 we talked earlier before we started recording, you 00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:43.000 know, you have five sons. I’ve got four 00:32:43.000 –> 00:32:44.000 sons, and I’m, you know, I’m I’m at 00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000 work, and then I go straight to a 00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:48.000 a sporting event, and it’s coaching, and then 00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000 it’s, you know, you go home and you 00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:50.000 go to bed and you get up and 00:32:50.000 –> 00:32:51.000 you do it all over again. Right? It’s 00:32:51.000 –> 00:32:52.000 vicious cycle. 00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:54.000 But what were those no mis items for 00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:55.000 you? 00:32:55.000 –> 00:32:57.000 Well, I it’s funny you say the grind 00:32:57.000 –> 00:33:00.000 because in Vancouver, we have three mountains inside 00:33:00.000 –> 00:33:02.000 city if you don’t know right right on 00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:05.000 the ocean. So it’s a phenomenal place, and 00:33:05.000 –> 00:33:07.000 and I do this thing called the Grouse 00:33:07.000 –> 00:33:09.000 Grind every morning of all. Four mornings a 00:33:09.000 –> 00:33:12.000 week. So it’s a one hour hike Brett 00:33:12.000 –> 00:33:13.000 up a mountain. So it it, 00:33:14.000 –> 00:33:15.000 so when you said that, I was a 00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:16.000 little bit confused. 00:33:17.000 –> 00:33:20.000 So in my most things I must do, 00:33:20.000 –> 00:33:22.000 first thing in the morning is I must 00:33:22.000 –> 00:33:24.000 get that endorphin rush. 00:33:24.000 –> 00:33:27.000 And so I will go to University of 00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:29.000 BC, which is maybe about ten minute drive 00:33:29.000 –> 00:33:30.000 away and run the stairs, 00:33:31.000 –> 00:33:33.000 which takes about maybe five minutes to get 00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:35.000 to the top stairs in the walk down. 00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:37.000 I’ll do that five times. 00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:39.000 I’ll do the bus grind, which then takes 00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:40.000 an hour to do. It’s just to cross 00:33:40.000 –> 00:33:41.000 the town. 00:33:41.000 –> 00:33:44.000 And, and then maybe, you know, so that’s 00:33:44.000 –> 00:33:45.000 critical for me. 00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:47.000 And then, 00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000 And then what do I do coming into 00:33:50.000 –> 00:33:51.000 work? 00:33:52.000 –> 00:33:54.000 Now as I’ll know, during the grind part 00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:55.000 of lululemon, 00:33:55.000 –> 00:33:57.000 what would have occurred? 00:34:00.000 –> 00:34:03.000 I I think it’s my one of the 00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:05.000 things I made sure once a week I 00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000 would sit down for an hour just a 00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000 pencil and a piece of paper and just 00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000 think about where the where the future need 00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:14.000 to be. I think my expertise is be 00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:16.000 seeing the world five to seven years in 00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:17.000 the future, 00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:19.000 which is really, really difficult for a lot 00:34:19.000 –> 00:34:21.000 of people I work with. Yeah. Because I’m 00:34:21.000 –> 00:34:24.000 kinda like you know, I’m willing to give 00:34:24.000 –> 00:34:26.000 up a lot of what’s happening and good 00:34:26.000 –> 00:34:27.000 right now in order to build out where 00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:29.000 the world’s going. 00:34:29.000 –> 00:34:29.000 So 00:34:30.000 –> 00:34:32.000 That’s important. And then I think it’s just 00:34:32.000 –> 00:34:34.000 the regularly scheduled meetings, 00:34:34.000 –> 00:34:37.000 and then probably even leaving at 01:00 00:34:37.000 –> 00:34:39.000 in going for a walk or going for, 00:34:39.000 –> 00:34:41.000 like, a thirty minute run would have been 00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000 critical at that time. 00:34:42.000 –> 00:34:43.000 And then, 00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:46.000 and then absolutely being home for dinner with 00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:47.000 my family was critical. 00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:50.000 I, 00:34:50.000 –> 00:34:53.000 again, part of selling the company to private 00:34:53.000 –> 00:34:55.000 equity was either I had to make the 00:34:55.000 –> 00:34:57.000 choice of I was gonna be traveling. I’m 00:34:57.000 –> 00:34:59.000 building a global business, so we were already 00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:02.000 in many countries already either 00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:04.000 I was gonna be on the road building 00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:06.000 a business or I was gonna be letting 00:35:06.000 –> 00:35:09.000 that business Brett me raise a great Gilliland 00:35:10.000 –> 00:35:11.000 great chose the family. 00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000 When that’s a that’s a great choice. Great, 00:35:13.000 –> 00:35:15.000 Joseph. It’s it’s neat to see some at 00:35:15.000 –> 00:35:17.000 your level, and then that was still the 00:35:17.000 –> 00:35:19.000 number one priority. So congratulations on that. So 00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:21.000 what would you look back and tell 00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:24.000 the, Chip Wilson, the thirty year old Chip 00:35:24.000 –> 00:35:25.000 Wilson, or the forty year old Chip Wilson. 00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:27.000 What what advice would you give that guy? 00:35:29.000 –> 00:35:32.000 I would have given that guy the advice 00:35:32.000 –> 00:35:33.000 that I probably I didn’t need to sell 00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:35.000 to private equity, and I didn’t need to 00:35:35.000 –> 00:35:36.000 go public. 00:35:36.000 –> 00:35:39.000 That’s funny. I was listening to, 00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:42.000 to Bill Gates say exactly the same thing 00:35:42.000 –> 00:35:43.000 a couple months ago, and, 00:35:44.000 –> 00:35:45.000 his big regret 00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:49.000 it’s the ability to move quicker and faster. 00:35:49.000 –> 00:35:50.000 And I think, 00:35:51.000 –> 00:35:51.000 entrepreneurs 00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:54.000 can see the future and the, 00:35:54.000 –> 00:35:56.000 It’s very, very difficult for other people to 00:35:56.000 –> 00:35:59.000 see, especially inside a public company. 00:35:59.000 –> 00:36:01.000 I could have with the massive amount that 00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:03.000 Lebanon was making at the time I did 00:36:03.000 –> 00:36:06.000 private equity. I I probably could have just 00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:08.000 gone to my bank and said, give me 00:36:08.000 –> 00:36:09.000 forty million dollars out of encumbered. 00:36:10.000 –> 00:36:12.000 And then I able to buy my ten 00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000 million dollar house and put thirty million in 00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:14.000 the bank. 00:36:15.000 –> 00:36:17.000 And, and then run the business that way. 00:36:17.000 –> 00:36:19.000 Yeah. But I didn’t. And, I got a 00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:22.000 I got a different outcome from it. So 00:36:22.000 –> 00:36:25.000 That would have been my my I would 00:36:25.000 –> 00:36:25.000 say 00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:29.000 I I went private equity and 00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:31.000 in order to get advisors 00:36:32.000 –> 00:36:33.000 because people had told me, well, I didn’t 00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:36.000 I haven’t run a billion dollar company before 00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:37.000 you. I don’t know what you’re doing. You 00:36:37.000 –> 00:36:38.000 need people around you. 00:36:39.000 –> 00:36:41.000 The advisors I got through private equity, I 00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000 think were they were self interested. 00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000 They and so I had 00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:48.000 of courses they should be. Right? I mean, 00:36:48.000 –> 00:36:50.000 I’m not I’m not naive in that, but, 00:36:51.000 –> 00:36:53.000 what I mean is how I would structured 00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:56.000 the deal going into private equity 00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:56.000 was, 00:36:57.000 –> 00:37:00.000 really handcuff me as when we went public. 00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000 I lost control of the board. I so 00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000 consequently, I lost control of the culture at 00:37:04.000 –> 00:37:05.000 the moment. 00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:06.000 And, 00:37:07.000 –> 00:37:10.000 Blue Lemmon went probably through five years of 00:37:10.000 –> 00:37:11.000 the greatest growth in athletic 00:37:12.000 –> 00:37:16.000 clothing between Tully two to thirteen and 02:18 00:37:16.000 –> 00:37:18.000 when it when it just went flat. If 00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000 you look at the stock, it went nowhere 00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:23.000 because it kind of self imploded because it 00:37:23.000 –> 00:37:25.000 just had a it just had board of 00:37:25.000 –> 00:37:28.000 directors that you know, where your normal 00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:30.000 run of the mill trying to do good 00:37:30.000 –> 00:37:33.000 people, but, you know, who were running by 00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:34.000 fear as opposed to possibility. 00:37:35.000 –> 00:37:36.000 So talk to us about that. I asked 00:37:36.000 –> 00:37:38.000 this in every episode, fear. 00:37:39.000 –> 00:37:40.000 You mentioned it. So we’ll bring it up 00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:41.000 now, but how many of the fears you 00:37:41.000 –> 00:37:43.000 put in your mind? Over your career blew 00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000 up to the magnitude you put them in 00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:46.000 your mind to be. 00:37:50.000 –> 00:37:52.000 Do I have them? Fears? 00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000 So you probably put some in your mind 00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:56.000 early on. Right? Like, maybe this won’t make 00:37:56.000 –> 00:37:59.000 maybe I’ll go bankrupt. What whatever the, the 00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000 fears were in your mind. How many of 00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:02.000 those actually blew up, though? 00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:06.000 Well, 00:38:07.000 –> 00:38:08.000 I don’t think 00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:11.000 I can’t say they actually did. I don’t 00:38:11.000 –> 00:38:13.000 think I had that many I don’t think 00:38:13.000 –> 00:38:15.000 I’ve had years like that. I think part 00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:17.000 of my what works for me in life 00:38:17.000 –> 00:38:19.000 is I’m incredibly trusting 00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:23.000 and I believe in people what they say 00:38:23.000 –> 00:38:24.000 to me. 00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:25.000 And I, 00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:28.000 and I’m incredibly 00:38:28.000 –> 00:38:31.000 positive about the future. So I think that 00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:32.000 you ask 00:38:33.000 –> 00:38:34.000 a lot of 00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:36.000 what what other people have as fears. 00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:37.000 Now 00:38:38.000 –> 00:38:40.000 where that works that works for me, because 00:38:40.000 –> 00:38:43.000 I get incredible people around me. We can 00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:45.000 build a great company, but then I also 00:38:45.000 –> 00:38:46.000 attract 00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:49.000 a certain number of people that are Let’s 00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000 say unable to make money on their own, 00:38:51.000 –> 00:38:52.000 but they’re entrepreneurial 00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:54.000 knowing how to make money off of people 00:38:54.000 –> 00:38:56.000 who who have my personality. 00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000 And, 00:38:59.000 –> 00:39:00.000 and I have to sit back and go, 00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:02.000 well, I was always that way. You know, 00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:03.000 I drove an old car and left a 00:39:03.000 –> 00:39:06.000 piece in it because you wanna take my 00:39:06.000 –> 00:39:07.000 car go for it. I just, you know, 00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000 because details and small things in life are 00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:10.000 very, very 00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:13.000 they they just can’t take up my mind 00:39:13.000 –> 00:39:15.000 because I’ve got like, big, big ideas. So 00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:18.000 I need to, I need to free my 00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:19.000 mind to, 00:39:20.000 –> 00:39:21.000 to love and trust everybody 00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:24.000 to think of possibility and be out there 00:39:24.000 –> 00:39:26.000 in the future and not get consumed with 00:39:26.000 –> 00:39:28.000 fear and what ifs. 00:39:28.000 –> 00:39:30.000 I love that. So You don’t have to 00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000 name drop unless you want to, which is 00:39:31.000 –> 00:39:33.000 totally fine. But, I mean, so when somebody 00:39:33.000 –> 00:39:35.000 gets to your level now, I mean, who 00:39:35.000 –> 00:39:37.000 are you surrounding yourself with to to keep 00:39:37.000 –> 00:39:39.000 yourself a student in the game and and, 00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000 you know, grabbing lunch with. I mean, who 00:39:41.000 –> 00:39:42.000 what what is that buddy system like for 00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:44.000 you, today with your level? 00:39:45.000 –> 00:39:47.000 You know, I just think enough having been 00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:49.000 in Canada and being and on the west 00:39:49.000 –> 00:39:52.000 coast of Canada. I mean, there’s nobody here. 00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:55.000 Like, you know, there’s very I have 00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:58.000 you know, a ninety year old billionaire here 00:39:58.000 –> 00:40:00.000 in Vancouver, Joe Siegel, who, 00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:02.000 was in the apparel business and is a 00:40:02.000 –> 00:40:04.000 wonderful, wonderful man. And 00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:06.000 I think about, 00:40:07.000 –> 00:40:09.000 you know, five years ago, he said to 00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:11.000 me, you know, Chip, you know, like, you 00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:13.000 got two more big ones in you. You 00:40:13.000 –> 00:40:13.000 know, 00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000 and so I went, well, that’s interesting. 00:40:16.000 –> 00:40:18.000 And, you know, he said to me, you 00:40:18.000 –> 00:40:20.000 know, at sixty, I kinda like, you know, 00:40:20.000 –> 00:40:21.000 I thought like I retired, but I started 00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000 putting my money into real estate. I was 00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000 making my seven percent return a year. Carrie, 00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:28.000 I’m ninety years old, and I’ve, 00:40:28.000 –> 00:40:29.000 you know, 00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000 What have I done in thirty years up 00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000 there? Nothing? You know, it wasn’t exciting. You 00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000 said, you know, like, take fifty percent of 00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:36.000 all your own at risk at all. 00:40:37.000 –> 00:40:39.000 Wow. What’s it? What? I mean, 00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:41.000 what’s it gonna matter? Like, do things that 00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:43.000 are, you know, standing? 00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:45.000 And then he also applied that to philanthropy, 00:40:46.000 –> 00:40:47.000 like, rather than kinda free and pay and 00:40:47.000 –> 00:40:49.000 doing a little bit here and there, you 00:40:49.000 –> 00:40:51.000 know, like, what’s really gonna change the dial 00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000 in the world, which I can do with 00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000 the amount of money I have? 00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:58.000 That those are that’s probably one really key 00:40:58.000 –> 00:40:59.000 person. 00:40:59.000 –> 00:41:01.000 That’s awesome. I love that. 00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:02.000 So you said smartphone, 00:41:03.000 –> 00:41:05.000 it killed the balanced life. Now there’s only 00:41:05.000 –> 00:41:06.000 life choices. 00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:10.000 I love that. So true. Talk to us 00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:11.000 about that. 00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:12.000 Well, 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000 It would because I’m older I got the 00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:17.000 context of observing 00:41:17.000 –> 00:41:20.000 my employees and observing people. And of course, 00:41:20.000 –> 00:41:21.000 I have, you know, five boys so I 00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:23.000 get to observe to 00:41:23.000 –> 00:41:26.000 I could and even myself, and I could 00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:26.000 see where, 00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000 with the digital world’s 00:41:29.000 –> 00:41:32.000 probably starting in ninety five or something like 00:41:32.000 –> 00:41:33.000 that. The amount of time 00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:36.000 that the amount of information that was coming 00:41:36.000 –> 00:41:40.000 to each individual person was becoming exponential. Gilliland 00:41:40.000 –> 00:41:42.000 I could also see that, you know, the 00:41:42.000 –> 00:41:44.000 algorithms that, you know, Google or Facebook, whoever 00:41:44.000 –> 00:41:47.000 has to keep them on, keep you on, 00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:49.000 their sightings and as much as possible was 00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:51.000 was eating up 00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:52.000 people’s, 00:41:53.000 –> 00:41:55.000 it was entertaining people in a way that 00:41:55.000 –> 00:41:57.000 gave them an dwarven rush. 00:41:59.000 –> 00:42:01.000 What I what I saw then is that 00:42:01.000 –> 00:42:03.000 life was passing people by. 00:42:04.000 –> 00:42:06.000 As often happens, 00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:09.000 without realizing that, oh, like, ten years has 00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:11.000 gone by. And I do I have I 00:42:11.000 –> 00:42:13.000 really appreciated my life? If I appreciated what 00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:16.000 done were up onto the people around me. 00:42:17.000 –> 00:42:18.000 So, 00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:21.000 and then at a certain point, it became 00:42:21.000 –> 00:42:22.000 so easy to have a smartphone that you 00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:25.000 didn’t need to be you know, when you’re, 00:42:26.000 –> 00:42:28.000 you know, when you’re at the office, you’re 00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:29.000 at the office or your family with your 00:42:29.000 –> 00:42:31.000 family, but now you could choose to be 00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:32.000 anywhere anytime. 00:42:34.000 –> 00:42:36.000 Basically, what I’m getting at is that we 00:42:38.000 –> 00:42:38.000 because 00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:40.000 life was moving 00:42:40.000 –> 00:42:41.000 exponentially, 00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:46.000 the number of times a person has to 00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:46.000 stop 00:42:47.000 –> 00:42:50.000 and be present to the world and be 00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:52.000 present to the people around them in what’s 00:42:52.000 –> 00:42:53.000 happening 00:42:53.000 –> 00:42:56.000 and to actually appreciate the life they have 00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:57.000 in that very exact moment. 00:42:58.000 –> 00:43:00.000 Has to happen not once every 00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:01.000 four months, 00:43:01.000 –> 00:43:04.000 but I actually expect today it needs to 00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:06.000 happen like four or five times a day. 00:43:06.000 –> 00:43:08.000 Well, because that phone 00:43:08.000 –> 00:43:09.000 can absorb 00:43:09.000 –> 00:43:11.000 everything and pretty soon 00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:14.000 as what happens to many people they lay 00:43:14.000 –> 00:43:16.000 on their death bed, and they go, what 00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:18.000 the hell happened to my life? Yeah. What 00:43:18.000 –> 00:43:20.000 happened in that moment? Did I why didn’t 00:43:20.000 –> 00:43:23.000 I appreciate it when I was there? And 00:43:23.000 –> 00:43:25.000 I think that that’s a life worth living. 00:43:25.000 –> 00:43:27.000 When we both have thirteen year olds, you 00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:28.000 know, and you think of their life at 00:43:28.000 –> 00:43:31.000 thirteen versus your and I’s life at thirteen, 00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:34.000 completely different. Right? It’s it’s it creates this 00:43:34.000 –> 00:43:34.000 addiction. 00:43:35.000 –> 00:43:36.000 Yeah. And 00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:39.000 and it also I’m I’m fascinated by how 00:43:39.000 –> 00:43:41.000 much the brain can actually absolutely 00:43:41.000 –> 00:43:42.000 absorb 00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:44.000 And, you know, we all told we were 00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:46.000 told to mirror you on our brain. We’re 00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000 only using it to four or five percent 00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:50.000 of what’s possible. And Right. Now learning how 00:43:50.000 –> 00:43:52.000 much How much information can be stored in 00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000 there? Lob in capacity. 00:43:54.000 –> 00:43:55.000 You’re smart. 00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:57.000 So if I stole your phone from you 00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:59.000 right now, besides email, and I say I’m 00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:02.000 a delete an app, any any any phone, 00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:04.000 anything on your phone that just Chip Wilson 00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:06.000 could not live without speaking to technology? 00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:09.000 I think it’s this new app called word 00:44:09.000 –> 00:44:12.000 power. It’s, kind of, it’s it’s a, 00:44:14.000 –> 00:44:15.000 it’s a crossword. 00:44:16.000 –> 00:44:18.000 And it’s, works on a it only gives 00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000 you seven letters and it’s a crossword Gilliland 00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:22.000 you gotta fill it all out. And I 00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.000 find myself totally addicted to it. 00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000 You gotta put your phone down. Right? 00:44:28.000 –> 00:44:30.000 Well, it’s been interesting because I actually when 00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:32.000 I was I was in Spain this last 00:44:32.000 –> 00:44:34.000 week and I And I, you know, it 00:44:34.000 –> 00:44:36.000 was a heat wave. Like, it was what 00:44:36.000 –> 00:44:38.000 was a hundred and twenty three degrees in 00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:40.000 them? Oh, man. Twenty five k a day. 00:44:40.000 –> 00:44:43.000 I run across this cold, fresh pond, and 00:44:43.000 –> 00:44:44.000 I and I 00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:46.000 dive in. And, of course, I’ve got my 00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:48.000 ear pods on, and I’ve got my phone 00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:51.000 here, and everything falls into the ended up 00:44:51.000 –> 00:44:53.000 fun and so I’ve been without a phone 00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:55.000 for three days now. So, uh-oh. Take your 00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:57.000 point very seriously. Yeah. Exactly. 00:44:58.000 –> 00:45:00.000 So what, favorite book you can recommend for 00:45:00.000 –> 00:45:00.000 our listeners? 00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000 Besides your own? 00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:06.000 Legacy. 00:45:07.000 –> 00:45:08.000 Legacy. 00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:11.000 I concur, k e r r, and it’s 00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:11.000 about, 00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:14.000 the most winning sports team in history. It’s 00:45:14.000 –> 00:45:16.000 New Zealand All Blacks. 00:45:16.000 –> 00:45:19.000 Oh, yeah. I’ve heard about that book. And, 00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:21.000 and I read it. I’m the only god. 00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000 This is a story about the culture of 00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:24.000 Lou Leanne. 00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:27.000 To top to bottom. There’s absolutely no difference. 00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:28.000 Everything 00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:31.000 that they quote in there about how they 00:45:31.000 –> 00:45:34.000 learned and and how they directed the people 00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:36.000 was all around good to Brett. The the 00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:37.000 landmark form, 00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:41.000 seven habits, because highly effective people Yeah. In 00:45:41.000 –> 00:45:43.000 goal setting. So it was like, Oh, I 00:45:43.000 –> 00:45:45.000 was it’s kinda neat to see that the 00:45:45.000 –> 00:45:47.000 number one winningest team in the world, you 00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:49.000 know, use the same platform. 00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:52.000 Yeah. That book’s a it’s gonna be around 00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000 for generation after generation. Isn’t it the seven 00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:56.000 habits of highly affected people? Yeah. I mean, 00:45:56.000 –> 00:45:58.000 what’s what’s not to love? 00:45:58.000 –> 00:46:01.000 So, your favorite Chip, you’ve been around the 00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:04.000 world, obviously, probably multiple times. So, if you 00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:06.000 could go anywhere again today, where are you 00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:06.000 going? 00:46:07.000 –> 00:46:10.000 We’re going to the Antialis Mountains in Morocco, 00:46:10.000 –> 00:46:13.000 and we’re, hiking for seven or eight days. 00:46:13.000 –> 00:46:14.000 Called the calaver camping. 00:46:15.000 –> 00:46:16.000 You know, where we have, you know, lots 00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:19.000 of sherpas and cars, anything else, and they 00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:21.000 set the tents up and prepare them down. 00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:25.000 But the terrain there, and the, moving from 00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:28.000 desert to the upper mountains, foothills, to, you 00:46:28.000 –> 00:46:29.000 know, canyons was, 00:46:30.000 –> 00:46:32.000 I did it before, and that’s the only 00:46:32.000 –> 00:46:33.000 thing our family to do again. And so 00:46:33.000 –> 00:46:35.000 your all your kids are going everything on 00:46:35.000 –> 00:46:37.000 this trip. It’s it’s the Brett. I think 00:46:37.000 –> 00:46:40.000 hiking now could be the last way 00:46:41.000 –> 00:46:43.000 that parents can can 00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:45.000 have their kids like put their phones away 00:46:45.000 –> 00:46:48.000 because there’s no service and it’s amazing especially 00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000 with boys, you know, after two hours of 00:46:50.000 –> 00:46:53.000 silence, they start talking. Right. Exactly. 00:46:54.000 –> 00:46:56.000 Start talking and start fighting. Right? 00:46:56.000 –> 00:46:58.000 So working our listeners find more of Chip 00:46:58.000 –> 00:46:59.000 Wilson. 00:47:00.000 –> 00:47:03.000 Well, I guess they can find, just going 00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000 Chip chip Wilson dot com. I have there 00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000 and you can kind of move every find 00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000 everything from there. Yeah. 00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:10.000 Definitely, 00:47:10.000 –> 00:47:12.000 I think it’s, you know, probably reading my 00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:14.000 book and thanks for for plugging it a 00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000 bit. Absolutely. It’s a great business book for 00:47:16.000 –> 00:47:17.000 entrepreneurs. 00:47:18.000 –> 00:47:19.000 And so you’re sitting in an office there. 00:47:19.000 –> 00:47:22.000 It looks like. What’s, what’s Chip Wilson’s day 00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:23.000 look like today? 00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:26.000 What did I let’s see. What did I 00:47:26.000 –> 00:47:28.000 do today? I got up. I took my 00:47:28.000 –> 00:47:31.000 boy to summer school. I came back without 00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:32.000 my phone. 00:47:32.000 –> 00:47:34.000 So I had to 00:47:34.000 –> 00:47:36.000 I I walked here. So it was an 00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:38.000 hour and a half to walk to work 00:47:38.000 –> 00:47:39.000 along the oceanfront 00:47:39.000 –> 00:47:42.000 of Vancouver, which is stunning. 00:47:42.000 –> 00:47:44.000 And I come to your gas town, which 00:47:44.000 –> 00:47:45.000 is our old part of Chip, the town 00:47:45.000 –> 00:47:47.000 where I am. And, 00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:50.000 and then I got Chip to Oh, I 00:47:50.000 –> 00:47:52.000 had a call with a guy that did 00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:53.000 an article on on me, 00:47:54.000 –> 00:47:56.000 from London a few months ago about the 00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:57.000 blue lemon AGM. 00:47:57.000 –> 00:47:58.000 And, 00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:01.000 And then I was and then I, of 00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:02.000 course, I haven’t been here for two weeks, 00:48:02.000 –> 00:48:05.000 so there’s all sorts of packages with apparel, 00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:09.000 samples and getting those to the right Gilliland, 00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000 yeah, since someone wrote a book about, I’ll 00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:14.000 just show you. 00:48:19.000 –> 00:48:21.000 Actually, I don’t even know. It’s called B. 00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:24.000 B magazine. I haven’t even unwrapped it, but 00:48:24.000 –> 00:48:26.000 it’s, it was a good thing. It’s about 00:48:26.000 –> 00:48:28.000 a, a third party that does that and 00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:31.000 synopsis is on brands, and they and I 00:48:31.000 –> 00:48:32.000 think that’s one of the greatest things that 00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:34.000 we did at Lou lemon, as I put 00:48:34.000 –> 00:48:35.000 all the a lot of my sayings on 00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:37.000 the outside of Yeah. Bag. 00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:38.000 And, 00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000 but, you know, Lou Lemon doesn’t shoot. They 00:48:40.000 –> 00:48:42.000 only put, like, two or three on now. 00:48:42.000 –> 00:48:44.000 They don’t put the fifty on I had 00:48:44.000 –> 00:48:47.000 before because It’s a lot cooler then. Yeah. 00:48:47.000 –> 00:48:48.000 We have a we’re living the world where 00:48:48.000 –> 00:48:52.000 you can’t actually say say truth anymore. You 00:48:52.000 –> 00:48:54.000 might hurt somebody’s feelings, Chip. Oh, I know. 00:48:54.000 –> 00:48:57.000 Terrible. Yeah. Terrible. And I’m good. You got 00:48:57.000 –> 00:48:58.000 them in the socks. You got them on 00:48:58.000 –> 00:49:00.000 the band of those t shirts. They were 00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:00.000 everywhere. 00:49:01.000 –> 00:49:01.000 Yeah. 00:49:02.000 –> 00:49:04.000 Well, Chip, it’s been awesome having you, man. 00:49:04.000 –> 00:49:06.000 And, it’s it’s crazy what you have done. 00:49:06.000 –> 00:49:09.000 You’ve literally changed the way people, 00:49:09.000 –> 00:49:11.000 dress. I mean, have you ever really thought 00:49:11.000 –> 00:49:11.000 about that? 00:49:13.000 –> 00:49:16.000 Yeah. I have, you know, and it’s of 00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:19.000 course, I Brett that way for so long. 00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:21.000 Like, even 00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:24.000 back in the day of going to to 00:49:24.000 –> 00:49:26.000 work in a suit and tie, I had 00:49:26.000 –> 00:49:28.000 my skateboard shoes on because I skateboarded to 00:49:28.000 –> 00:49:29.000 work and 00:49:30.000 –> 00:49:32.000 People now kinda thinking that, you know, wearing 00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000 wedding shoes with a suit is kinda trendy 00:49:34.000 –> 00:49:36.000 and that, but, you know, that’s, 00:49:36.000 –> 00:49:39.000 it’s neat to see the world catch up 00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:40.000 to the way I thought life should be 00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:43.000 lived. Yeah. Well, that little black stretchy pants 00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:46.000 that you’ve made has changed the way people 00:49:46.000 –> 00:49:48.000 dress you know, the women Brett, and it’s 00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:49.000 amazing how you probably thought they were just 00:49:49.000 –> 00:49:51.000 giving yoga pants. And now they wear them 00:49:51.000 –> 00:49:53.000 dress they wear them dressy too. Right? 00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000 Well, I knew that from the surfskate snowbird 00:49:56.000 –> 00:49:58.000 business that, you know, you make a product 00:49:58.000 –> 00:50:00.000 that can that’s technical and looks good on 00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:02.000 the street, you know, It was kind of 00:50:02.000 –> 00:50:03.000 Italian 00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:06.000 styling with West Coast function, I call it. 00:50:06.000 –> 00:50:06.000 Nice. 00:50:07.000 –> 00:50:09.000 Yeah. Well, very good. Well, Chip, thank you 00:50:09.000 –> 00:50:11.000 so much for being on the Circive success 00:50:11.000 –> 00:50:13.000 and, continued success to you, and we appreciate 00:50:13.000 –> 00:50:15.000 your time. K. Thank you very much, Brett. 00:50:15.000 –> 00:50:17.000 I have my brother is Brett, and my 00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:19.000 son is Brett, by the way. Well, perfect. 00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:19.000 Two tees. 00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:21.000 Yeah. 00:50:22.000 –> 00:50:22.000 I get

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The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

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