BE THAT LAWYER

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jonathan Baum discuss:Transitioning from a big law firm to independent practiceCultivating strong client relationships for career sustainability in lawThe evolving dynamics of legal workPersonal branding and positioning oneself in a competitive legal environment Key Takeaways:Independent lawyers can effectively compete with large firms by assembling specialized teams for specific projects, which allows them to deliver high-quality services while remaining flexible and responsive to client needs.The financial advantages of independent practice are substantial, as independent lawyers can retain up to 99.7% of their billed income, a stark contrast to the lower take-home pay typically seen in large law firms.For lawyers transitioning from big firms, conducting a thorough risk assessment and leveraging existing client relationships can help establish a sustainable practice without relying on a large firm's reputation.The belief that clients require a big law firm's name can be countered by demonstrating that hiring based on a lawyer’s individual expertise and client relationships is far more crucial for achieving favorable outcomes. "If you really think that leaving that firm is going to cause you to lose all those clients, I would ask you, are they really your clients in the first place?" —  Jonathan Baum Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: The Ezra Klein Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447 About Jonathan Baum: Jonathan Baum has more than 40 years of experience as a corporate, securities, and finance lawyer, including many years organizing and managing legal teams. He considers himself to be a big law and big city escapee and spends time supporting the overall well-being and success of the legal community through Avenir Guild, an online portal where legal professionals can access resources and a community that empowers their legal career at every stage. Connect with Jonathan Baum:  Website: https://avenirguild.com/Email: jbaum@avenir-law.comPersonal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jobaum/Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/avenirguild/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and RJon Robins discuss:Understanding the business side of law firmsCommon challenges in growing a law firmOvercoming financial and operational hurdles in law practicePersonal development and mindset in law firm success Key Takeaways:Law schools fail to teach essential business skills, leaving lawyers unprepared for running a firm, particularly in areas like marketing and financial management.Law firm success depends on mastering key fundamentals such as marketing, sales, staffing, and financial controls, rather than using overcomplicated strategies.Inconsistent marketing leads to major issues like cash flow problems and bar grievances, making continuous marketing crucial for a stable practice.Profit goes beyond money and includes value gained in decisions, relationships, and time management, encouraging a holistic approach to firm management. "The job of the lawyer is to perform legal services......The business of a law firm, however, is to market legal services, sell legal services, deliver the legal services, and get paid." —  RJon Robins Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom by Don Miguel Ruiz: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319About RJon Robins: RJon Robins is an 8-figure entrepreneur, licensed attorney, and bestselling author. He founded How To Manage A Small Law Firm in 2009 while flat broke. Since then, he has achieved 8,000% revenue growth and now has over 600 members. Operating in multiple countries, RJon works about 90 days a year and spends the rest launching new ventures. He speaks to thousands of law firm owners annually, helping them redefine profit and break free from the belief that suffering is necessary for success. Connect with RJon Robins:  Website: https://howtomanageasmalllawfirm.com/Show: RJon Robins: From The Vault: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rjon-robins-from-the-vault/id1635177206LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rjonrobins/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/how-to-manage-a-small-law-firm-comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/rjonrobins2 & https://www.facebook.com/HowToManageASmallLawFirmInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rjonrobins/ & https://www.instagram.com/howtomanageasmalllawfirm/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ben Paul discuss:AI in modern business development for legal professionalsBuilding and sustaining client relationships in a competitive legal marketEnhancing personal branding and marketingNavigating economic challenges and their impact on legal services Key Takeaways:AI tools like ChatGPT can assist lawyers in creating business development strategies and optimizing content, but human review is essential to ensure accuracy and relevance to the legal context.Lawyers should track their market share rather than just focusing on revenue fluctuations, as maintaining or increasing market share during a downturn can still lead to business growth.AI can greatly enhance the efficiency of content creation and client outreach, but all outputs should be carefully checked to ensure they align with legal regulations and client expectations.Consistent use of AI-powered personal branding, such as automated LinkedIn posting, can significantly increase a lawyer's digital presence and client engagement, as shown by a case study where impressions jumped from 800 to 4,000 per week. "[AI is] a habitual liar. It wants to please you. It wants to give you the answer. It will always give you an answer, whether it's factually based or not. So it's on you to fact-check that." —  Ben Paul Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: This Legal Life: NOT Another Legal Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-legal-life-not-another-legal-podcast/id1679451845 About Ben Paul: Ben Paul is a leading Business Development coach for lawyers. He provides practical sales and marketing training and coaching services to individuals and law firms of all sizes. Having held senior BD positions within major law firms and with experience working in different countries, Ben is well-placed to help lawyers increase their revenue and enjoy the benefits of a healthy practice. Connect with Ben Paul:  Website: https://bdladder.com/Email: ben@bdladder.comPersonal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benpaulbdm/Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/18110718YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebdladderPersonal X (Twitter): https://x.com/BenPaul_NZFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/BDLadderInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/bd_ladder/Company X (Twitter): https://x.com/BdLadder Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and David Telisman discuss:The role of content in business growthChallenges professionals face in content creationAI's impact on marketing strategiesDelegating marketing efforts effectively Key Takeaways:Blogging remains the second most effective form of content marketing after video, but many attorneys fail to utilize it consistently, missing out on a powerful tool for brand visibility and client engagement.Repurposing content, such as turning podcasts into articles or short videos, allows businesses to maximize their exposure across multiple platforms without constantly creating new material, which saves time and effort.AI, like ChatGPT, has revolutionized content marketing by helping professionals organize and optimize their content creation processes, but it must be carefully monitored to avoid factual errors and ensure originality.A common issue for small business owners is the discrepancy between their in-person presence and their online branding, which often leads to a lack of trust or missed connections with potential clients. "As a practitioner, I could smell rubber-stamped AI that hasn't gotten through QC from a mile away. I mean, it's just used to the format, the formula of the words." —  David Telisman Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: Club Random with Bill Maher: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/club-random-with-bill-maher/id1613459129 About David Telisman: David Telisman is the founder of David Telisman Communications, LLC, a leading content writing and marketing company. With 26 years of experience in writing, marketing communications, and education, David partners with businesses across various industries to create powerful content that drives customer engagement and boosts sales. David’s strategic content creation helps brands stand out, elevate their reputation, and achieve sustained growth in competitive markets. Connect with David Telisman:  Website: https://davidtelisman.com/Email: david.telisman@gmail.comPhone: 224-645-2748LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidtelisman/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.telisman & https://www.facebook.com/davidtelismancommunications/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Michael Oberther discuss:Effective networking for attorneysCommunicating complex legal concepts in a relatable mannerUnderstanding your target audience in networking effortsBuilding strong referral relationships within professional networks Key Takeaways:Attorneys should prepare to explain their services in simple terms, akin to explaining to a high schooler, to ensure clarity and recognition of referral opportunities.Sharing specific stories about past client interactions can help others understand the value of your services and identify potential referrals.Networking should be targeted; lawyers should focus on connecting with professionals who have clients that may need their legal services.Engaging others in conversation about their industries first can create a tailored networking approach that resonates more effectively with potential referral sources. "I want to get them talking first... That gives me the opportunity, when it is my turn to share, to tailor my conversation directly back to the industries that they serve." —  Michael Oberther Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: REAL AF with Andy Frisella: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/real-af-with-andy-frisella/id1012570406 About Michael Oberther: In 2014, Michael Oberther moved to New York City and, as a seasoned salesperson, aimed to build a professional network from scratch. He engaged with the NYC networking community and met the owner of ArcLedge Accounting, an outsourced bookkeeping firm, leading to his role as Director of Business Development. He developed a 100% referral-driven sales process and continues to drive growth through the referral network he built.With 20 years in business development and client relations, Michael focuses on outsourced business service sales and effective relationship building, skills honed during seven years in the Air National Guard. His success comes from connecting with people, understanding their needs, and delivering solutions. Outside work, he enjoys Jiu Jitsu, rock climbing, and strength training. Connect with Michael Oberther:  Website: https://www.arcledge.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeloberther/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/arcledge/mycompany/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moberther/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris Ruzicka discuss:Networking and relationship buildingThe role of business development in law firmsWhy many lawyers struggle with sales and networkingMaking the most out of networking opportunities Key Takeaways:Building strong relationships is key to business development by focusing on genuine connections over immediate sales and starting with familiar, comfortable contacts.Non-lawyers add significant value in law firms by handling networking, generating referrals, and guiding attorneys in business development strategies that drive firm growth.Effective networking relies on thorough preparation through researching contacts, utilizing LinkedIn, and planning conversations to establish rapport.Consistent follow-up strengthens professional relationships by maintaining regular communication and making strategic introductions to turn connections into business opportunities. "[Business development people] can provide attorneys with additional ammo, additional help, and additional support to not only recruit but also retain." —  Chris Ruzicka Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ About Chris Ruzicka: Chris Ruzicka, Director of Business Development at the Carmody MacDonald law firm in St. Louis, Missouri, provides attorneys, clients, referral partners, and network connections with ideas and resources to improve their sales and marketing efforts. Chris’ primary objective is to market the firm and its attorneys while securing weekly referrals for the law firm.His extensive business development and marketing experience, ranging from start-ups to large organizations such as Anheuser-Busch and Sara Lee, enables him to bring innovative ideas and best practices to the firm and his connections. Chris regularly presents to groups on the topics of effective networking for business and how to develop a simplified, sensible marketing plan. Connect with Chris Ruzicka:  Website: https://carmodymacdonald.com/Phone: 314-854-8603LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherruzicka/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/carmody-macdonald-p-c-/mycompany/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/carmodymacdonaldpc/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Robert Hanna discuss:Podcasting as a business development toolBuilding and engaging a legal communityStrategies for growing a personal or firm brandLeveraging LinkedIn and legal technology for career advancement Key Takeaways:Launching a podcast differentiates a business, builds client relationships, and establishes a brand by offering valuable content over direct sales approaches.Consistent content creation and social media engagement, especially on LinkedIn, enhances professional visibility and opens doors to opportunities and collaborations.Mistakes in podcasting, like generic episode titles or ineffective video strategies, limit growth potential, highlighting the need for strategic digital marketing efforts.Focusing on long-term benefits of building a community or brand is essential, as the cost of inaction (missing key opportunities) outweighs immediate return on investment. "We were the first legal recruitment firm in the world to launch a podcast, and that was a great way to build thought leadership, produce content, and utilize social where certain people were behind." —  Robert Hanna Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: Legal Operations in the Age of AI and Data (edited by Olga Mack, Humira Noorestani, and Memme Onwudiwe): https://www.amazon.com/Legal-Operations-Age-AI-Data/dp/1837230099/ About Robert Hanna: Robert Hanna is the Founder & Managing Director of KC Partners, a UK-based global leader in legal talent solutions and content creation. He helps legal professionals secure roles across the UK, Europe, the Middle East, Far East, and the US, and has been featured in leading publications like The Lawyer and Law.com. Rob is a LinkedIn Top Voice, host of the Legally Speaking Podcast, and co-founder of the Great Big Legal Offsite. He advises legal tech startups, mentors, and advocates for mental health, diversity, and inclusion, drawing inspiration from his grandfather's legacy in law. Connect with Robert Hanna:  Website: https://legallyspeakingpodcast.com/Legally Speaking Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legally-speaking-podcast/id1485892170LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberthanna/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ron Latz discuss:Challenges in business development and marketing for lawyersAligning marketing strategies with law firm goalsChoosing the right marketing vendors for law firmsPersonal branding and networking in law firm success Key Takeaways:Lawyers often struggle with marketing due to a lack of business development education and being overwhelmed by running their practices.When selecting marketing vendors, firms should assess cultural fit, business alignment, scope of work, track record of success, and trust.Small law firms with limited budgets can achieve growth by focusing on community involvement, referral marketing, and low-cost marketing channels like social media.Law firms should base their marketing investments on specific goals, competition analysis, and available budget, as certain markets may be cost-prohibitive. "[Lawyers] don't necessarily know what they don't know... there just not as many hours as we all want in each of these days to become a specialist at everything." —  Ron Latz Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: Obviously Awesome by April Dunford: https://www.amazon.com/Obviously-Awesome-Product-Positioning-Customers/dp/1999023005Positioning with April Dunford: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/positioning-with-april-dunford/id1690104435 About Ron Latz: Ron Latz is a seasoned legal marketing consultant and the founder of LegalFenix, a consultancy dedicated to providing industry-leading marketing consulting and fractional CMO services to the legal community. With a deep understanding of the unique challenges lawyers face with their legal marketing, Ron has helped numerous law firms enhance their market presence, attract more clients, and transform their marketing results. His strategic approach and industry expertise make him a sought-after consultant and fractional CMO in the legal space. Connect with Ron Latz:  Website: www.legalfenix.comEmail: ron@legalfenix.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronlatz/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/legalfenix/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Merry Neitlich discuss:Challenges in legal marketingImportance of branding in law firmsEvolving marketing techniquesIntegration of branding with business development Key Takeaways:Lawyers often misunderstand branding as a tagline, but effective branding requires a deep dive into what makes their services unique and meaningful to clients.Without integrating marketing and business development efforts, even the best branding will not drive results, as lawyers must raise visibility through thought leadership and client engagement.Short-form videos and data-driven social media strategies are increasingly important, with platforms like LinkedIn promoting interactive content that boosts engagement.One of the major obstacles to effective marketing and branding is lawyers' lack of time, which can be mitigated by using outsourcing and automation for content creation and promotion. "A lot of lawyers think having a tagline like 'excellent experience wisdom' would be great, but that doesn't differentiate them from the person who cleans your pool or the plumber." —  Merry Neitlich Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Ready to go from good to GOAT? Attend PIMCOM the inaugural personal injury mastermind conference Sept 15-17, 2024. Use promo code BeThatLawyer to get $200.00 off at https://www.pimcon.org/Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: The Ultimate Sales Revolution by Steve Lishansky: https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Sales-Revolution-Differently-Change/dp/1599325519 About Merry Neitlich: For 25 years, Merry Neitlich has been assisting law firms to drive revenue by creating unique brands with unusual and deep differentiation. She then applies this clearly branded messaging to each client's website and social media platforms. Once the brand essence is clearly created, Merry develops unique and sustainable business development opportunities for her clients.Merry, a founding partner of EM Consulting, frequent speaker, and author, was inducted into the Legal Marketing Association Hall of Fame in 2017 and is also an accomplished figure skater with multiple national titles. Connect with Merry Neitlich:  Website: https://emconsults.org/Email: merry@emconsults.orgPhone: 949-260-0936LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/merryneitlich/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Justin Krane discuss:Challenges lawyers face with managing their financesThe importance of automating financial systemsThe connection between lifestyle choices and financial healthStrategies for building a financially secure law practice Key Takeaways:Automating the transfer of funds between business and personal accounts helps remove emotion from financial decisions and ensures steady savings.Lawyers often struggle with personal finances because they lack clarity on their business model and revenue generation strategies.Over-spending on luxury items like vacations and yachts while neglecting long-term savings can disrupt financial stability.A reframe from thinking of business expenses as "spending" to viewing them as "investing" helps ensure lawyers prioritize sustainable growth and ROI. "You have to be a prosperity thinker. You have to be able to believe that you can create and manifest the financial life that you want and make things happen." —  Justin Krane Read Steve's past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/ Thank you to our Sponsors!Ready to go from good to GOAT? Attend PIMCOM the inaugural personal injury mastermind conference Sept 15-17, 2024. Use promo code BeThatLawyer to get $200.00 off at https://www.pimcon.org/Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/ Episode References: INspired INsider Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inspired-insider-podcast/id729464589The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel: https://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Money-Timeless-lessons-happiness/dp/0857197681 About Justin Krane: Justin Krane, a Certified Financial Planner™ professional, is the founder of Krane Financial Solutions. Known for his savvy, holistic approach to financial planning, he advises his clients on how to unite their business and personal money with their lives. Justin works with his clients to create purpose-driven financial plans, aiming for a "return on life." He manages his clients’ investment portfolios for their long-term goals, such as retirement. Justin is the author of the book Money. You Got This. It’s a book about everyday crazy, funny life experiences that we all have – with lessons for all of us. Connect with Justin Krane:  Website: https://kranefinancialsolutions.com/Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinkrane/Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/krane-financial-solutions/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.