The Digital Agency Growth Podcast

In this episode, I sat down with @Sharon Toerek from Innovative Agency to talk about the real shifts happening in agency business development — and the constant evolution that comes with them. We unpacked why 2025 is the year agencies need to get honest about their positioning, how trust — not information — has become the key currency, and why specialization isn’t just smart, it’s essential for survival.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Welcome and introduction: why the agency landscape feels confusing in 2025 2:10 – The “trust recession” and why agencies are more anxious than ever 5:00 – Why information is cheap but credibility is expensive 6:30 – Specialization as a core sales lever (not just a niche tactic) 9:45 – The fear that keeps most agencies from focusing 12:00 – What ruins deals when you’re not specialized 13:30 – Why the “show, don’t tell” principle beats overblown ROI claims 15:00 – Thought leadership as a frictionless entry point 17:30 – How to build thought leadership around your ICP (not your ego) 19:00 – Should the founder always be the face of the content? 21:30 – Balancing new client acquisition with organic growth 23:00 – Dan’s “Trust Matrix” for prioritizing outbound calls 24:30 – Systematizing referrals (without being weird about it) 26:00 – The three “food groups” of agency sales 28:00 – Why most agencies over-engineer outbound and underdeliver 29:30 – What’s surprised Dan about agency sales in recent years 31:00 – What smart agency owners are doing differently 32:00 – Where AI helps — and where it’s just shiny object syndrome 34:00 – Why more agencies will start to look like consultancies soon 35:00 – Where to go to learn more about Dan’s model🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeWhy we’re in a “trust recession” — and how it’s quietly killing cold outreachHow to develop perspective, not just thought leadershipWhy specialization isn’t optional — it’s how you earn trustA practical way to turn your network into a referral engineThe three-part system Dan recommends for reliable agency growthWho should own sales and content when you’re a small agency (and what to do if it’s you)Why agencies that ignore perspective end up sounding like everyone elseThe difference between old-school hustle and smart modern outbound

In this episode of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, I’m joined by Brock Murray, co-founder of seoplus+, a digital marketing agency he launched back in 2012 that has grown into a 50+ person team serving clients across North America and beyond.Brock shares the arc of his journey, from launching his first web hosting business at 14, to building seoplus+ with his partner Eddie, to scaling through multiple growth stages while navigating the challenges of delegation, client specialization, and leadership layers.If you’re running an agency, this episode is a playbook on scaling without losing touch, adapting to seismic industry shifts like AI search, and building a growth engine that lasts.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Intro & Brock’s early start in web hosting at age 141:00 – Founding seoplus+ in 2012 and partnering with Eddie2:00 – Growth stages: from the first hire to 10, 25, and 50 employees3:30 – The challenge of scaling culture and building management layers5:00 – Hybrid account management and the role of AMs in sales7:00 – Upsells, long-term relationships, and winning bigger accounts9:30 – Balancing farming existing clients vs. chasing new ones12:00 – Building a partner program: from 20 informal partners to 80+ active ones15:00 – Partnerships vs. web leads vs. outbound16:00 – Scaling from meetups to AI-focused community events18:00 – Outbound experiments: Apollo, coffee chats, and free AI brand audits20:00 – Structuring partnerships transparently and acquiring a partner’s business23:00 – Fractional CMOs (VCMOs) as high-value partners24:00 – How Brock got out of the sales seat and what made it possible27:00 – Building trust and reach through events—local vs. national scale30:00 – Fewer clicks from Google, more searches on ChatGPT & Gemini32:00 – Launching Generative Engine Optimization and building AI tools internally34:00 – Why agencies can now afford to build internal products35:00 – The future of SEO: rebrand or double down?37:00 – Where to connect with Brock online🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeHow Brock scaled seoplus+ from two partners to a 50+ person global agency.The “resistance line” at 50 employees and how to push through.Why hybrid account management can be both a strength and a bottleneck.How to use events as a serious new business channel (without getting stuck locally).Why partnerships with VCMOs and boutique agencies can lead to acquisitions.How outbound campaigns, coffee chats, and case studies fuel growth.Why clicks from Google are dropping and what Generative Engine Optimization means for agencies.How to leverage AI tools internally to save hundreds of hours and increase ROI.The looming question: does SEO need a rebrand in the age of AI?🔗 Links & ResourcesRelationship Sales at Scale™

Most agencies live and die by referrals.But here’s the catch:They usually happen randomly.When you do ask for intros, it feels like giving people homework.And even if you’re consistent, it’s hard to know where the real opportunities actually are.In this solo episode, I share my journey from the “analog networking” days of wandering trade shows… to running hundreds of cold campaigns during the trust recession… to finally cracking the code on how to make referrals systematic, scalable, and predictable.You’ll learn:Why SaaS-style sales playbooks fail for agenciesHow to map your connectors against your market to uncover hidden paths into targeted accountsWhy reducing friction, not persuasion, makes referrals stickThe simple weekly cadence that can turn referrals from “rain dance” to irrigation system

In this episode, I talk with @Audrey Kwan in the Small But Mighty Agency, to tackle one of the most misunderstood growth levers in agency land: referrals. Together, they unpack how trust is the new currency in a cold-lead-saturated market—and how smart agencies are building systems around referrals, not just hoping they happen.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Why cold outreach is failing and trust is everything2:10 – The rise of trust-based selling in the agency world5:40 – Why personalization alone isn’t enough in 20257:30 – How to ask for referrals the right way9:45 – Building “circles of trust” and systems around relationships13:00 – Using LinkedIn as a referral engine16:00 – Why referrals still require consistency and structure18:00 – The real reason most agency sales systems break20:00 – Direct vs. indirect control: a smarter way to plan sales activity22:30 – Metrics and referral math: how to reverse engineer deal flow25:00 – Specialization as a sales advantage (and trust shortcut)27:30 – Strategic partnerships beyond client referrals29:00 – What kind of agencies thrive with Dan’s model31:00 – What needs to be in place before handing off sales33:00 – Dan’s biggest mindset shift about agency growth34:00 – Where to learn more about Dan’s process🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeWhy cold outreach is widening the trust gap—and what to do insteadHow to turn random referrals into a repeatable, systemized sales engineWhy agency founders need to own sales before they delegate itThe one sales hire mistake that can cost you six months (and how to avoid it)How specialization accelerates trust—and shortens your sales cycle

In this episode of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, I’m joined by Eric Baum, founder and CEO of Blue Leads—one of the top HubSpot Solutions Partners globally.Eric shares the full arc of his journey, from accidentally starting an agency after hacking Yellow Pages spend for his plumbing business, to scaling a team of 40+, to building one of the most successful HubSpot implementations agencies in the world.We dig into what it actually takes to get out of the sales seat, build second-layer leadership, and scale without losing your mind.If you're running an agency, this is a masterclass in letting go, thinking bigger, and staying relevant in a fast-changing market.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Intro & Eric’s journey from plumbing franchises to marketing2:30 – How $25K Yellow Pages spend turned into Blue Leads4:00 – Betting on HubSpot before anyone cared6:00 – From accidental agency to structured growth9:00 – Discovering EOS and transforming the business13:00 – Cash flow traps and scaling mistakes16:00 – Why most agencies grow like a jigsaw puzzle18:00 – “Inbound is broken” – what’s working now21:00 – Strategic partnerships & the Crossbeam approach23:30 – AI hype vs. actual implementation: where to invest26:00 – Building your second layer of leadership30:00 – Letting go of the vine – how to replace yourself34:00 – What tools and platforms Eric would bet on today37:00 – If he had to start over, here’s what he’d do39:00 – The sales team you should’ve hired42:00 – Where to find Eric online (and why he loves war stories)🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeHow Eric scaled Blue Leads into a top 5 global HubSpot partner.Why inbound is dying—and what’s replacing itThe leadership move that separates scaling from stallingThe #1 mistake agency owners make when hiring their first salesperson.What happened when their traffic dropped from 300K to 10K/month.How partnerships and AI agents are generating leads faster than cold outreach.The secret to staying relevant when your clients.Why agency growth looks like a jigsaw, not a hockey stick

In this enlightening discussion, Joe Ardeeser, founder of Smart Pricing Table and a former digital agency owner, shares valuable insights on transforming proposals into a powerful growth engine for agencies. He highlights the dangers of vague or overly detailed proposals and offers a straightforward framework for integrating upsells. Joe emphasizes the importance of clarity and transparency in building trust with decision-makers and reveals strategies for tackling common proposal challenges, ensuring agencies finish Q4 on a strong note.

As summer winds down, many agencies face the same problem: pipelines that dried up in July and August, and a mad dash to generate momentum before year-end. In this episode, Dan lays out a practical action plan for September outreach — how to reset your business development, stand out to brands, and build the right conversations that lead to Q4 results.This is from Dan’s conversation with Stephen Woessner on the Sell With Authority podcast.what you’ll learn:Why most agencies waste energy chasing the tiny slice of prospects “ready to buy now” — and what to do instead.How to build trust with brands early, before they’re even in buying mode.Why cold outreach often fails in today’s noisy market, and how to shift your approach.The real scarce resource in business developmentHow to open doors with brands in a way that feels natural, not forced.Links & Resources:Sell With Authority Podcast

In this conversation, Roger Nairn, CEO of JAR Podcast Solutions, shares his journey from hobbyist to leading a top agency working with brands like Amazon and Lululemon. He discusses the importance of taking action over overplanning and reveals how a critical hire transformed his business. Roger highlights the need for creative sales strategies and emphasizes selling solutions to business challenges rather than just podcasts. He also dives into effective outreach tactics and building scalable systems that drive real results for clients.

Dan Englander, CEO of Sales Schema, specializes in helping marketing agency owners build their firms. He discusses the challenges agencies face in sales, emphasizing the dangers of relying solely on hope and referrals. Englander explains the importance of developing structured sales systems and the need to convert networks into reliable pipelines. He also highlights the significance of trust in today's sales dynamics and provides insights on mastering inbound and outbound marketing strategies effectively. His approach promotes genuine relationships over cold outreach for sustainable growth.

 In this episode, I sat down with Kristen Sweeney, the founder of Every Little Word — a boutique content and communications agency that’s laser-focused on helping complex B2B orgs share what they actually know in ways that actually work. We got into the nitty-gritty of what it means to build trust with subject matter experts, why most B2B content is fundamentally broken, and how Kristen made a huge decision to walk away from a partner that was 60% of her business. Timestamps00:00 – Intro & Kristen’s background01:03 – From Broadway to freelance writing03:03 – Business triples during COVID04:48 – Treating execs like peers, not titles06:22 – Sales copy and horizontal vs vertical relationships07:39 – Why so much outreach reads as either bragging or begging08:09 – Creating content that matches your ICP’s level09:47 – Executives can smell uncertainty11:49 – Emotions in B2B aren’t optional14:17 – Leaving a 60% revenue partnership16:24 – Selling to enterprise life sciences17:07 – Building trust through intros and relationships19:33 – Owning both sides: product and sales21:56 – The writing on the wall after 10KSB24:45 – Kristen’s Colby profile and systems for sales25:50 – Why process builds confidence in sales28:07 – Trust recession and the power of a real convo31:43 – Why life sciences felt like home35:25 – Balancing delivery with marketing38:18 – Doubling down on strengths with Substack40:00 – What Kristen’s excited about next🔑 Some Key TakeawaysKristen Sweeney walked away from a partner driving 60% of her revenue (on purpose), “Executives can smell fear” — and Kristen shares what actually earns their respectLinks & Resources:Website: everylittleword.coRelationship Sales at Scale™