The Digital Agency Growth Podcast

In this episode, I talk with @Audrey Kwan in the Small But Mighty Agency, to tackle one of the most misunderstood growth levers in agency land: referrals. Together, they unpack how trust is the new currency in a cold-lead-saturated market—and how smart agencies are building systems around referrals, not just hoping they happen.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Why cold outreach is failing and trust is everything2:10 – The rise of trust-based selling in the agency world5:40 – Why personalization alone isn’t enough in 20257:30 – How to ask for referrals the right way9:45 – Building “circles of trust” and systems around relationships13:00 – Using LinkedIn as a referral engine16:00 – Why referrals still require consistency and structure18:00 – The real reason most agency sales systems break20:00 – Direct vs. indirect control: a smarter way to plan sales activity22:30 – Metrics and referral math: how to reverse engineer deal flow25:00 – Specialization as a sales advantage (and trust shortcut)27:30 – Strategic partnerships beyond client referrals29:00 – What kind of agencies thrive with Dan’s model31:00 – What needs to be in place before handing off sales33:00 – Dan’s biggest mindset shift about agency growth34:00 – Where to learn more about Dan’s process🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeWhy cold outreach is widening the trust gap—and what to do insteadHow to turn random referrals into a repeatable, systemized sales engineWhy agency founders need to own sales before they delegate itThe one sales hire mistake that can cost you six months (and how to avoid it)How specialization accelerates trust—and shortens your sales cycle

In this episode of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, I’m joined by Eric Baum, founder and CEO of Blue Leads—one of the top HubSpot Solutions Partners globally.Eric shares the full arc of his journey, from accidentally starting an agency after hacking Yellow Pages spend for his plumbing business, to scaling a team of 40+, to building one of the most successful HubSpot implementations agencies in the world.We dig into what it actually takes to get out of the sales seat, build second-layer leadership, and scale without losing your mind.If you're running an agency, this is a masterclass in letting go, thinking bigger, and staying relevant in a fast-changing market.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Intro & Eric’s journey from plumbing franchises to marketing2:30 – How $25K Yellow Pages spend turned into Blue Leads4:00 – Betting on HubSpot before anyone cared6:00 – From accidental agency to structured growth9:00 – Discovering EOS and transforming the business13:00 – Cash flow traps and scaling mistakes16:00 – Why most agencies grow like a jigsaw puzzle18:00 – “Inbound is broken” – what’s working now21:00 – Strategic partnerships & the Crossbeam approach23:30 – AI hype vs. actual implementation: where to invest26:00 – Building your second layer of leadership30:00 – Letting go of the vine – how to replace yourself34:00 – What tools and platforms Eric would bet on today37:00 – If he had to start over, here’s what he’d do39:00 – The sales team you should’ve hired42:00 – Where to find Eric online (and why he loves war stories)🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeHow Eric scaled Blue Leads into a top 5 global HubSpot partner.Why inbound is dying—and what’s replacing itThe leadership move that separates scaling from stallingThe #1 mistake agency owners make when hiring their first salesperson.What happened when their traffic dropped from 300K to 10K/month.How partnerships and AI agents are generating leads faster than cold outreach.The secret to staying relevant when your clients.Why agency growth looks like a jigsaw, not a hockey stick

In this enlightening discussion, Joe Ardeeser, founder of Smart Pricing Table and a former digital agency owner, shares valuable insights on transforming proposals into a powerful growth engine for agencies. He highlights the dangers of vague or overly detailed proposals and offers a straightforward framework for integrating upsells. Joe emphasizes the importance of clarity and transparency in building trust with decision-makers and reveals strategies for tackling common proposal challenges, ensuring agencies finish Q4 on a strong note.

As summer winds down, many agencies face the same problem: pipelines that dried up in July and August, and a mad dash to generate momentum before year-end. In this episode, Dan lays out a practical action plan for September outreach — how to reset your business development, stand out to brands, and build the right conversations that lead to Q4 results.This is from Dan’s conversation with Stephen Woessner on the Sell With Authority podcast.what you’ll learn:Why most agencies waste energy chasing the tiny slice of prospects “ready to buy now” — and what to do instead.How to build trust with brands early, before they’re even in buying mode.Why cold outreach often fails in today’s noisy market, and how to shift your approach.The real scarce resource in business developmentHow to open doors with brands in a way that feels natural, not forced.Links & Resources:Sell With Authority Podcast

In this conversation, Roger Nairn, CEO of JAR Podcast Solutions, shares his journey from hobbyist to leading a top agency working with brands like Amazon and Lululemon. He discusses the importance of taking action over overplanning and reveals how a critical hire transformed his business. Roger highlights the need for creative sales strategies and emphasizes selling solutions to business challenges rather than just podcasts. He also dives into effective outreach tactics and building scalable systems that drive real results for clients.

Dan Englander, CEO of Sales Schema, specializes in helping marketing agency owners build their firms. He discusses the challenges agencies face in sales, emphasizing the dangers of relying solely on hope and referrals. Englander explains the importance of developing structured sales systems and the need to convert networks into reliable pipelines. He also highlights the significance of trust in today's sales dynamics and provides insights on mastering inbound and outbound marketing strategies effectively. His approach promotes genuine relationships over cold outreach for sustainable growth.

 In this episode, I sat down with Kristen Sweeney, the founder of Every Little Word — a boutique content and communications agency that’s laser-focused on helping complex B2B orgs share what they actually know in ways that actually work. We got into the nitty-gritty of what it means to build trust with subject matter experts, why most B2B content is fundamentally broken, and how Kristen made a huge decision to walk away from a partner that was 60% of her business. Timestamps00:00 – Intro & Kristen’s background01:03 – From Broadway to freelance writing03:03 – Business triples during COVID04:48 – Treating execs like peers, not titles06:22 – Sales copy and horizontal vs vertical relationships07:39 – Why so much outreach reads as either bragging or begging08:09 – Creating content that matches your ICP’s level09:47 – Executives can smell uncertainty11:49 – Emotions in B2B aren’t optional14:17 – Leaving a 60% revenue partnership16:24 – Selling to enterprise life sciences17:07 – Building trust through intros and relationships19:33 – Owning both sides: product and sales21:56 – The writing on the wall after 10KSB24:45 – Kristen’s Colby profile and systems for sales25:50 – Why process builds confidence in sales28:07 – Trust recession and the power of a real convo31:43 – Why life sciences felt like home35:25 – Balancing delivery with marketing38:18 – Doubling down on strengths with Substack40:00 – What Kristen’s excited about next🔑 Some Key TakeawaysKristen Sweeney walked away from a partner driving 60% of her revenue (on purpose), “Executives can smell fear” — and Kristen shares what actually earns their respectLinks & Resources:Website: everylittleword.coRelationship Sales at Scale™

In this week´s episode Stewart Gandolf joins me to talk through what it actually takes to niche down, build a sustainable agency, and scale without losing your sanity or soul. Stewart’s been in the healthcare marketing game for over two decades, and his experience building Healthcare Success into one of the top firms in the space is loaded with tactical insight.We talk about the trap of project-based work, how to structure your agency around recurring revenue, and why most agencies screw up their first few sales hires.🕒 Timestamps & Topics00:00 — How Stewart got his start and why he doubled down on healthcare03:15 — Direct mail, seminars, and the early version of inbound06:40 — NLP and the psychology behind language that converts11:20 — What drove their early growth (hint: it wasn’t salespeople)13:40 — Why project work is a trap and how to transition to retainers16:00 — Right-sized clients vs. resource-sucking whales18:20 — Inbound vs. outbound: nets, spears, and the bullseye metaphor21:20 — Stewart’s playbook if he were starting from scratch today25:00 — Authority assets: reports, seminars, and content that build trust29:10 — The daisy metaphor and avoiding entrepreneurial distraction31:45 — What most agencies get wrong with their first sales hire37:10 — Traits of a great agency salesperson (and why most don’t have them)40:00 — When to stop being your own best salesperson44:15 — Strategic partnerships and the next wave of AI opportunity47:45 — Final thoughts on staying relevant when the cheese movesA few things we covered.Most agency salespeople fail, not because they’re bad, but because there’s no clear positioning to sell.Links & Resources:🔗 Links & ResourcesHealthcare Success — Stewart’s agencyRelationship Sales at Scale™

Explore the transformative groundwork needed for agency growth as we approach 2025. Learn how to transition from freelancer to enterprise-level with a focus on specialization and strategic planning. Discover why adopting a fresh perspective is key in today's market and how ethical marketing can pave the way for sustainable practices. Embrace innovative client relationship strategies and the power of personalized outreach. Finally, find out how automating lead generation through effective follow-ups can give agency owners more freedom to grow.

Most agencies never crack eight figures. Mark Orttung helped one grow to $130M—by breaking every "safe" rule.In this episode, we dive into what agency owners at the $1–5M mark can actually do to punch past the common growth ceilings.The most important shift?He stopped selling to job titles—and started selling to buyers with something to prove.⏱ Timestamps00:00 – Intro: Why agencies need a rethink00:36 – Mark’s background: Accenture, startups, bill.com, Nexient02:23 – Studying AI in the 90s: symbolic vs neural nets04:30 – Stepping into Nexient at $39M—and losing $5M first06:59 – Early differentiation struggles and customer perception08:29 – Building product-style squads inside a services business10:38 – The big leap: shifting from selling people to selling outcomes11:08 – Simplifying the pitch: “life’s too short for crappy software”13:12 – Saying no to revenue: the scary path to focus14:14 – Selling without data: enterprise outbound as testing lab16:26 – Creating their own conference as a positioning feedback loop19:34 – Cross-industry client base: healthcare to gas utilities to tech20:25 – Specializing by service vs vertical in today’s world24:52 – Growth “walls”: from founder-led to decentralized structure29:21 – Change agents: how to spot internal buyers who take risks32:40 – The next wall at 150M and why he chose to exit36:56 – Getting ghosted on a term sheet, then driving a bidding war40:17 – The Project Works origin story: from spreadsheet to SaaS42:28 – Why every services firm needs better resourcing visibility47:29 – What’s next: proposal automation, AI, and growth tooling48:49 – Where to find Mark and Project WorksKey PointsWhy scaling past the eight figures in a services firm requires breaking the founder bottleneckWhy “life’s too short for crappy software” became a high-converting missionThe opportunity of building or early adopters—not the mainstreamHow to identify and win over internal change agents in large enterprisesHow Project Works helps agencies resource smarter and prevent margin leaksUsing conferences as real-time feedback loops for positioningWhy now is the time to apply AI to services growth ops—especially proposalsLinks & Resources:🔗 Links & Resources🔗 Book a strategy call with Dan: https://salesschema.com/work-with-us/🎙 More episodes of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast: salesschema.com/podcastProject Works – https://www.projectworks.comConnect with Mark on LinkedIn – Mark Orttung