The Digital Agency Growth Podcast

In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Garrett Jestice, former CMO and founder of Prelude, to unpack how to turn that randomness into a repeatable Go-To-Market (GTM) system that actually compounds.Garrett helps B2B agencies and service businesses replace scattered marketing efforts with a focused GTM strategy built on customer proof — clarifying audience, offer, messaging, and channels so growth stops being a guessing game.They break down why most agencies start with the wrong things (channels before clarity), how to pick the right market segment, and how to make growth repeatable without losing focus or burning resources. What You’ll LearnWhy most agencies get stuck after $1M — and how to fix itThe four foundations of a real GTM system: Audience, Offer, Messaging, ChannelsHow to pick one market segment and own it (without overthinking TAM)Why you can’t scale custom work — and what to do insteadThe “maintenance and support” offer that helped one agency grow fasterWhen to productize vs. stay bespokeHow to make referrals and warm intros systematic, not luckyWhy every audience–offer combo needs its own GTM strategyHow to align sales, marketing, and delivery around the same message

Brooke MacLean, CEO of MarketWake, details her journey of bootstrapping an 80-person agency without debt. She discusses the importance of relationship-driven growth and the 15% rule to mitigate revenue risks from major clients. Brooke highlights how involving her account team in sales shortens cycles and builds trust. She emphasizes authenticity in referrals and shares tactical insights on account-based marketing. With plans for software acquisition, Brooke is excited about MarketWake's future growth while maintaining creativity.

Discover the concept of 'The Great Mismatch' as outdated marketing advice is challenged for boutique agencies. Explore the importance of understanding market size and building trust in a skeptical climate. Learn about balancing direct outreach with systematic referrals to create a reliable growth engine. Dan shares insights on leveraging LinkedIn for mapping connections and boosting referrals without awkwardness. Tune in for a systematic approach to transforming relationships into predictable pipelines!

Dive into the world of agency challenges with insights on the pitfalls of awkward commission pitches that erode trust. Discover the dangers of relying solely on referrals and the importance of proactive lead generation. Learn how narrowing your market can actually enhance creativity. Embrace the idea of launching imperfect campaigns to gather valuable feedback. Uncover why building trust and relationships often outshines mere intent data. Plus, get straightforward tips on preparing your agency for a successful exit.

Carl Smith, a community builder and 'philosophical futurist,' leads The Bureau, fostering connections among agency leaders. In a gripping discussion, he explores the evolution of agency models into hyper-specialized micro-teams, emphasizing accountability over traditional retainers. Smith tackles the apathy epidemic plaguing leaders and suggests rethinking business development strategies to focus on empathy. He also predicts a bright future for AI integration within agencies, urging professionals to embrace change rather than resist it.

Most agencies don’t have a lead generation problem—they have a leverage problem. In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander dives deep into how agencies can grow faster by amplifying what they already have: past clients, case studies, frameworks, and relationships. Forget chasing the latest marketing fad or new sales channels; sometimes the fastest path to growth is working smarter with the assets already in your hands.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:What “leverage” really means for agencies and why it’s more valuable than chasing new leads.The three most common areas of hidden leverage: intellectual property, positioning data, and relationships.How to map your network to identify referral-ready connectors and multiply opportunities.Practical strategies to repurpose past work, frameworks, and wins to attract new business.The mindset shift from more to better, focusing on improving existing assets rather than constantly seeking new channels.Step-by-step actions to start activating leverage immediately, from client outreach to framework publishing.Key Takeaways:Inventory your assets: past clients, testimonials, frameworks, partnerships, and wins.Prioritize small moves that have outsized impact.Reconnect strategically with relationships that can introduce you to your ideal prospects.Use your IP and insights to scale trust, not just output.Focus on amplification over acquisition: sometimes growth comes from refinement, not expansion.

In this episode, I sat down with @Sharon Toerek from Innovative Agency to talk about the real shifts happening in agency business development — and the constant evolution that comes with them. We unpacked why 2025 is the year agencies need to get honest about their positioning, how trust — not information — has become the key currency, and why specialization isn’t just smart, it’s essential for survival.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Welcome and introduction: why the agency landscape feels confusing in 2025 2:10 – The “trust recession” and why agencies are more anxious than ever 5:00 – Why information is cheap but credibility is expensive 6:30 – Specialization as a core sales lever (not just a niche tactic) 9:45 – The fear that keeps most agencies from focusing 12:00 – What ruins deals when you’re not specialized 13:30 – Why the “show, don’t tell” principle beats overblown ROI claims 15:00 – Thought leadership as a frictionless entry point 17:30 – How to build thought leadership around your ICP (not your ego) 19:00 – Should the founder always be the face of the content? 21:30 – Balancing new client acquisition with organic growth 23:00 – Dan’s “Trust Matrix” for prioritizing outbound calls 24:30 – Systematizing referrals (without being weird about it) 26:00 – The three “food groups” of agency sales 28:00 – Why most agencies over-engineer outbound and underdeliver 29:30 – What’s surprised Dan about agency sales in recent years 31:00 – What smart agency owners are doing differently 32:00 – Where AI helps — and where it’s just shiny object syndrome 34:00 – Why more agencies will start to look like consultancies soon 35:00 – Where to go to learn more about Dan’s model🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeWhy we’re in a “trust recession” — and how it’s quietly killing cold outreachHow to develop perspective, not just thought leadershipWhy specialization isn’t optional — it’s how you earn trustA practical way to turn your network into a referral engineThe three-part system Dan recommends for reliable agency growthWho should own sales and content when you’re a small agency (and what to do if it’s you)Why agencies that ignore perspective end up sounding like everyone elseThe difference between old-school hustle and smart modern outbound

In this episode of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, I’m joined by Brock Murray, co-founder of seoplus+, a digital marketing agency he launched back in 2012 that has grown into a 50+ person team serving clients across North America and beyond.Brock shares the arc of his journey, from launching his first web hosting business at 14, to building seoplus+ with his partner Eddie, to scaling through multiple growth stages while navigating the challenges of delegation, client specialization, and leadership layers.If you’re running an agency, this episode is a playbook on scaling without losing touch, adapting to seismic industry shifts like AI search, and building a growth engine that lasts.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Intro & Brock’s early start in web hosting at age 141:00 – Founding seoplus+ in 2012 and partnering with Eddie2:00 – Growth stages: from the first hire to 10, 25, and 50 employees3:30 – The challenge of scaling culture and building management layers5:00 – Hybrid account management and the role of AMs in sales7:00 – Upsells, long-term relationships, and winning bigger accounts9:30 – Balancing farming existing clients vs. chasing new ones12:00 – Building a partner program: from 20 informal partners to 80+ active ones15:00 – Partnerships vs. web leads vs. outbound16:00 – Scaling from meetups to AI-focused community events18:00 – Outbound experiments: Apollo, coffee chats, and free AI brand audits20:00 – Structuring partnerships transparently and acquiring a partner’s business23:00 – Fractional CMOs (VCMOs) as high-value partners24:00 – How Brock got out of the sales seat and what made it possible27:00 – Building trust and reach through events—local vs. national scale30:00 – Fewer clicks from Google, more searches on ChatGPT & Gemini32:00 – Launching Generative Engine Optimization and building AI tools internally34:00 – Why agencies can now afford to build internal products35:00 – The future of SEO: rebrand or double down?37:00 – Where to connect with Brock online🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeHow Brock scaled seoplus+ from two partners to a 50+ person global agency.The “resistance line” at 50 employees and how to push through.Why hybrid account management can be both a strength and a bottleneck.How to use events as a serious new business channel (without getting stuck locally).Why partnerships with VCMOs and boutique agencies can lead to acquisitions.How outbound campaigns, coffee chats, and case studies fuel growth.Why clicks from Google are dropping and what Generative Engine Optimization means for agencies.How to leverage AI tools internally to save hundreds of hours and increase ROI.The looming question: does SEO need a rebrand in the age of AI?🔗 Links & ResourcesRelationship Sales at Scale™

Most agencies live and die by referrals.But here’s the catch:They usually happen randomly.When you do ask for intros, it feels like giving people homework.And even if you’re consistent, it’s hard to know where the real opportunities actually are.In this solo episode, I share my journey from the “analog networking” days of wandering trade shows… to running hundreds of cold campaigns during the trust recession… to finally cracking the code on how to make referrals systematic, scalable, and predictable.You’ll learn:Why SaaS-style sales playbooks fail for agenciesHow to map your connectors against your market to uncover hidden paths into targeted accountsWhy reducing friction, not persuasion, makes referrals stickThe simple weekly cadence that can turn referrals from “rain dance” to irrigation system

In this episode, I talk with @Audrey Kwan in the Small But Mighty Agency, to tackle one of the most misunderstood growth levers in agency land: referrals. Together, they unpack how trust is the new currency in a cold-lead-saturated market—and how smart agencies are building systems around referrals, not just hoping they happen.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Why cold outreach is failing and trust is everything2:10 – The rise of trust-based selling in the agency world5:40 – Why personalization alone isn’t enough in 20257:30 – How to ask for referrals the right way9:45 – Building “circles of trust” and systems around relationships13:00 – Using LinkedIn as a referral engine16:00 – Why referrals still require consistency and structure18:00 – The real reason most agency sales systems break20:00 – Direct vs. indirect control: a smarter way to plan sales activity22:30 – Metrics and referral math: how to reverse engineer deal flow25:00 – Specialization as a sales advantage (and trust shortcut)27:30 – Strategic partnerships beyond client referrals29:00 – What kind of agencies thrive with Dan’s model31:00 – What needs to be in place before handing off sales33:00 – Dan’s biggest mindset shift about agency growth34:00 – Where to learn more about Dan’s process🔑 What You’ll Learn in This EpisodeWhy cold outreach is widening the trust gap—and what to do insteadHow to turn random referrals into a repeatable, systemized sales engineWhy agency founders need to own sales before they delegate itThe one sales hire mistake that can cost you six months (and how to avoid it)How specialization accelerates trust—and shortens your sales cycle