
Lunch Hour Legal Marketing
Hosted by digital marketers Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam, Lunch Hour Legal Marketing is jam packed with tips and tricks for attracting more clients and business to your legal practice. Tune in twice a month for expert advice to turbocharge your firm’s ability to generate cash money.
Latest episodes

Jan 31, 2024 • 41min
Diverse Marketing || 30 Days In
100 episodes! Thanks for listening, LHLMers. This time, we’re focusing on the business and community benefits of expanding into new language markets for your law firm. Plus, what should be accomplished in the first 30 days of a new marketing year?_____________________________________________What should diversity look like in your legal marketing? The ever-growing Spanish-speaking market has made attorneys realize there are many underserved populations in need of greater access to legal services. Whether it be Spanish or another language, what is the best way to reach out to new client populations in your area? Gyi and Conrad share what they’ve learned thus far about inclusive marketing strategies that serve communities more broadly and effectively. Later on, what progress should lawyers and marketers expect to see after the first thirty days of their engagement/campaign/strategy/whatever? The guys talk through potential benchmarks in a variety of circumstances and the data-gathering frenzy that should eventually become measurable, meaningful metrics for your firm. The News:
LSA Reporting – you can now see more about your local service ads through Google’s interface, but it still kinda sucks.
Google Business Profile Websites will be turned off on March 1st. Are they quietly sneaking off into the night?
Google is laying off hundreds from their advertising teams. What gives?
The Stafford Jersey Swap was quite a thing.
Mentioned in this Episode:Hreflang: The Easy Guide for BeginnersUS Hispanic Population StatsLHLM Episode: The Anatomy of an Annual Plan || Top KPIs for Law Firm Growth Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Jan 17, 2024 • 35min
Conrad’s Crystal Ball: The Re-Re-Return — Sponsored by CallRail
Gyi and Conrad gaze deeply into the hazy future of law firm marketing in 2024, but are they true fortune tellers or phonies? They talk through the successes of predictions past and offer their insight into the uncertain future.____________________________________________________________Time to dust off the crystal ball, but first, the guys take a look back and show off their brilliant powers of prediction with a whole slew of spot-on prophecies that did, in fact, come to pass in 2023. In-house marketers increased, lawyers took to social media in bigger ways, brand affinity/awareness tactics were key, and more! And, uh… y’know—nevermind that bit of a psychic blind spot on the massive AI renaissance.Next, let’s take a look at the most significant trends of 2023. The guys unpack the major happenings in AI, the legal business sphere, marketing strategies, social media engagement, and all the other things competent soothsayers must examine as they ponder eternity.Finally, the future. Gyi and Conrad gaze into the depths of the mystic orb, and what lies ahead is clear—more and more AI is coming into the practice of law. What else? We’re not giving it all away! Listen in to find out. Many thanks to our friends at CallRail for sponsoring this extra LHLM episode.Mentioned in this Episode:Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Jan 3, 2024 • 38min
Mindful Gifting || Resolutions Past and Future
If you’ve never put much thought into gifts, maybe it’s time to ponder the influence and effect of a perfectly personalized present. And, how did the guys’ resolutions go last year? Eh… you’ll see. _____________________________________________________________________Unexpected, unnecessary gifts can be pretty darn impactful, and they might just be an awesome way to express your esteem for a valued professional peer. Gyi and Conrad encourage listeners to forgo the pears and apples and consider a thoughtful, personalized gifting strategy that truly shows others you care.Next, the guys answer a listener question on Google SGE. What are its long-term prospects? Will it play a role in Search? Gyi and Conrad hash out their prognostications. It seems we love to hate ourselves for failing miserably at New Year’s resolutions. The guys share their successes and lack thereof on 2023’s personal, professional, and podcast goals, and talk about their bright, shiny hopes for 2024. The News:
Take that, robocallers/texters! The FCC has adopted new rules closing 'lead generator" loopholes.
Is print coming back? Great Legal Marketing has an excellent print newsletter, so maybe, just maybe, you should consider one as well.
Mentioned in this Episode:Ask a question—get some swag!Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Dec 27, 2023 • 33min
Bad Math - Undercapitalization || Riches in the Niches?
Bad math might be holding you back from your business goals, and, later, is it a good or bad idea to diversify your legal practice areas? _______________________________________________________________Lawyers aren’t known for their math skills, but those who are business owners need to understand how to budget their money for continued growth. In fact, if you’re not investing enough in your marketing, you might be moving backwards. Gyi and Conrad talk through strategies for effective marketing investments that will help you reach your business goals. To maximize your revenue, should you undertake multiple niches in your legal practice? It depends. Practice area diversification isn’t all bad—in some markets it might work well for you, but it can also be problematic. They guys break down the pros and cons of a multi-niche legal practice. The News:
This video looks amazing: Hands-on with Gemini: Interacting with multimodal AI - YouTube. But now it’s looking like we’ve been misled: Google shares sink following reports that some of their AI demo was faked.
Joy Hawkins has informed everyone that they basically don’t exist after hours on Google unless they run a 24/7 listing.
Mentioned in this Episode:Maximum LawyerAsk a question—get some swag!Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Dec 13, 2023 • 42min
The Rising Costs of Google Ads || Traffic for Traffic’s Sake?
Google ad prices keep increasing, but a lot of lawyers feel like their Google marketing isn't getting them where they want to go. Later, should you keep content that brings in plenty of web traffic but no new customers?_______________________Is Google engaging in some sneaky tactics? Ad prices continue to rise, but many lawyers are feeling like their Google ads are less and less effective. What’s going on here? Gyi and Conrad talk through the increasingly convoluted ad space and how to actually reach your target clients.Later, a listener asks a question that merits its own segment—what do you do when you have a web page that generates a lot of organic traffic but doesn’t convert to clients? The guys discuss whether all traffic is good traffic and what you should do with a weirdly performing page from a variety of marketing perspectives. The News:
Once again, Elon’s employing some seriously questionable tactics against his naysayers, and it’s hard to imagine he’s accomplishing anything other than shooting himself in the foot: Elon Musk to advertisers who try to blackmail him: 'Go f**k yourself'
Danny Sullivan, Google's Search Liaison, says major changes are coming to search rankings, so buckle up, folks. We may be experiencing some turbulence.
Also from Google—structured data changes. Check out these articles from Search Engine Journal: Google Highlights Forums & Profiles With New Structured Data and Google Search Central: New in structured data: discussion forum and profile page markup.
And, well, Google’s definitely monopolizing the news (again): Jerry Dischler of Google Ads has Resigned.
Mentioned in this Episode:Ask a question—get some swag!Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Nov 22, 2023 • 45min
LinkedInGPT || Red Flags for Firing Your Agency
What do we think of using AI in social content creation? It’s complicated. And, the guys share the surefire signs that mean it’s time to drop your digital marketing agency. ______________With ChatGPT by our side, social media might just have the potential to become more inauthentic than ever. If, that is, you employ AI to generate your content full-time. So… should you? Gyi and Conrad talk through the current state of ChatGPT-aided content creation, explaining how to use it for what it’s worth, while leaving its lame, boring robot side out of your socials. For today’s LHLM question, a listener asks about the value, or lack thereof, in hiring a local celebrity for your marketing scheme. Does it work? Is it fraught with peril? The guys hash it out. Spotty communication? Red flag. No data access? Red flag. Certain indicators really do prove that it's time to oust your digital marketing agency. Things get a little heated as Gyi and Conrad outline a full list of things that just aren’t acceptable, so you’ll know when to give your agency the boot. The News:Google is using click data as a ranking factor, because apparently Google users… like it? Ugh.
It's Goog Enough! - Blind Five Year Old The latest announcements from Google are promising personalization:
Lily Ray on LinkedIn: New ways to find just what you need on Search
New ways to find just what you need on Search - The Keyword
Open AI is letting you make your own version of ChatGPT:OpenAI announces platform for making custom ChatGPTs - The Verge Mentioned in this Episode:https://www.reddit.com/r/LawFirmMarketing/Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Podcast: The Anatomy of an Annual ... Ask a question—get some swag!Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Nov 8, 2023 • 39min
The Anatomy of an Annual Plan || Top KPIs for Law Firm Growth
Where is your law firm headed in the next year? We know you want to improve your business, and here’s how! Later, a good plan relies on good data. Gyi and Conrad discuss the most important KPIs for your firm. -----------You want growth for your law firm, so what’s your plan? Gyi and Conrad have had too many lawyers tell them, “I don’t know… you tell me!” So, that’s what we’re doing today. The guys break down the key elements of a top-notch annual plan that can be tailored to your particular business objectives. Then, it’s question time! How does ChatGPT/AI affect marketing and SEO? Can you still stand out amongst the crowd? Gyi and Conrad discuss. Don’t forget to send in your questions and get a b-e-a-utiful Lunch Hour trucker hat. And, last but not least, we’re bringing it back to your annual plan, dear lawyers. The guys each share their top 3 KPIs for measuring where you want to go with your law firm. The News:
The walls are coming down, folks! MyCase now has an integration with CallRail.
Just a heads up—Google’s LSAs have, by and large, dropped from 3 to 2.
SEOs, you made a mess of the internet… as usual:
Did SEO experts ruin the internet or did Google? - The Verge
Congrats to the authors of Tiger Tactics: Powerful Strategies for Winning Law Firms. This book is definitely worth a read.
As we mentioned, 50% of people are not comfortable with their lawyers using AI, and Pras of the Fugees is one of them:
Fugees' Pras Michel Demands Retrial, Says Lawyer's Use of AI Botched Final Argument.
Mentioned in this Episode:Ask a question—get some swag!Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Oct 25, 2023 • 38min
You Asked, We Answered || A Line in the SPAM
The weary travelers are back! After collecting your most pressing marketing questions at the latest legal conferences, Gyi and Conrad are ready to answer you right here on the podcast. And later—you better learn how NOT to annoy your audience, because no one likes a spammer. -----------We at the Lunch Hour pod took down your marketing questions at Clio Cloud 2023 and MTMP, and the guys are ready to answer the first three of many! If you’ve been wondering about effective client meetings, social media positioning, and targeted referrals, listen in for Gyi and Conrad’s expertise. Later, when is your marketing too much? There is a line, folks, and you definitely don’t want to cross it. The guys talk about marketing and social media etiquette and the stuff you need to think about when you engage with your target audience. The News:
Get ready to make a big spend on TikTok’s physical ads! It’s a thing now: Introducing Out of Phone: TikTok Beyond the Mobile Screen.
Capture Now could help you fix the intake problems at your law firm.
Clio launches Clio Duo and the insights it has to offer will most likely really change the way lawyers work.
NGage Chat is still being super lame and selling your leads, just like we told you in this episode: 5 Ways To Make Your Google Profile Pop || Is Your Chat Service Selling Your Leads?
Gyi and Conrad were on the Game Changing Attorney Podcast.
Mentioned in this Episode:Ask a question—get some swag!Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Oct 11, 2023 • 28min
5 Fresh Takeaways from Clio’s Legal Trends Report || The Case Against ROI
Live from Clio Cloud Conference—the 2023 Legal Trends Report is hot off the presses and Gyi and Conrad have some compelling thoughts on what it’s showing us this time around. Later, they dig into the problems and limitations associated with current perceptions of ROI.------Should you trust AI for good legal advice? Apparently, 27% of you do, but that stat is making Gyi and Conrad pretty concerned about your qualifications as a lawyer… Yikes. The guys unpack this finding and other notable insights from the 2023 Legal Trends Report. Later, is tracking ROI truly helpful or even really possible for most law firms? Conrad’s got a soap box here, dear listeners, so get ready. For the most part, stop getting hung up on ROI metrics and point your growth mindset elsewhere. The News:
Google v. DOJ — Yeah, there’s some stuff you won’t like:
Google search antitrust trial updates: Everything you need to know (so far)
Former Googler: Google ‘using clicks in rankings’
Has Google Ads lost all credibility? Why one advertiser says it’s time to leave
Google Maps sued for sending someone off a bridge.
Family sues Google alleging its Maps app led father to drive ... - CNN
Google Local Chat
Google Local Chat With A Live Agent Rolling Out?
Startup Alley Nominations are now open!
2024 ABA TECHSHOW Startup Alley Application - LawSites
Mentioned in this Episode:Clio’s 2023 Legal Trends ReportLeave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Sep 27, 2023 • 33min
LHLM 101: Targeting in Marketing || Geotargeting Misadventures
The guys do a whole session on targeting—what it means and how to do it—and then dive deep into a case study on a well-known attorney’s geotargeting mishap. -----Welcome back to school, kids. Today’s lesson is all about hitting the marketing bullseye—with targeting! Now, targeting means that you are putting the right message in front of the right person at the right time. How do you do that? Gyi and Conrad focus this session of LHLM 101 entirely on helping you understand how to identify and connect with your target market to gain more clients for your law firm. Later, Conrad recently stumbled upon a Facebook ad specifically targeting Pennsylvania car accident victims… but he wasn’t IN Pennsylvania. So, why did this ad appear outside of its target area, and does this equate to sending marketing investments up in smoke? Gyi and Conrad analyze this particular example of a geotargeting blunder and share their thoughts on how lawyers should approach the complexities of area-specific advertising. The News:
From the Googly Googs at Google:
Something’s up with the Local Pack.
Gyi’s thoughts on what to do about Google’s core algorithm update and AI policy changes.
ClioCon is coming, and LHLM has swag!
Mentioned in this Episode:Target Markets: Why They Aren't Just for Marketers [A Quick Guide] The Geotargeting Mishaps of a Pennsylvania Lawyer Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok