📲 Text the show your thoughts!If the way we're building design systems has a fatal flaw, it's "waiting for enough investment to get it right." In this episode, Brian teaches us to not wait for permission and how your product teams' success is your success. Brian reminds us how important it is to remember that we're all on the same team, building the same product—and why internal politics and storytelling matters way more than components. Plus, why design systems are like toilets (not a Dad joke, I promise) and why Brian and I think "measuring the system is hard" is a beautiful thing.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesBrian Alfaro on LinkedInThe Washington Post Design SystemBrian on bringing value first on the Connecting your Design System to business value panel with Into Design SystemsBrian on the anatomy of WaPo's component sprints on the Figma blog🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Text the show your thoughts!I'm thrilled to have the one and only Dan Mall on the show, and in this episode, we get deep into all the things you maybe don't want to do if you want your design system to be successful. Dan shares his experiences with failed design systems, one very failed attempt at pitching a system to leadership,  why he thinks design systems should be specific not generic and maybe... not include foundations? Plus, we talk about useless documentation, what's next for systems, and THE spiciest take on tokens.(Honestly, there are so many 🌶️ Spicy Takes™️ in this episode, we might have to rename the show to Design System Spicy Takes!)💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesDan Mall on LinkedInDan Mall's portfolioDesign System in 90 Days❗️Free Resource: Design Systems in 90 Days Figjam CanvasMore of Dan's free resources, talks, writingDesign that Scales bookBook a 1:1 with Dan🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Text the show your thoughts!You can't talk about design systems lately without addressing the elephant in the room: layoffs. Noelle walks us through her experience of multiple layoffs in one year, why 2023 was so different than 2020, and how the success criteria of design systems correlated with team layoffs. We discuss the bogeyman of "getting zero results from your design system" and what Noelle was hearing from business leadership about that, and how storytelling might matter more than metrics. Plus, a very spicy take on ~the rebrand~, and why at least one company was hiring for someone to delete  their design system 😱Warning: F-word/language. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesNoelle Lansford on LinkedInHire Noelle on your system: NoelleLansford.comNoelle's semi-viral blog post, The State of Design Systemslayoffs.fyiSam Anderson's Design Systems are InfrastructureeBay Design Playbook🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Text the show your thoughts!Jina Anne gives us a history of the journey from early style guides to widespread industry adoption of design systems, and the challenges and successes. We explore how tokens came to be, how it feels when the engineering team just starts using your work before it's ready, the separation of HTML/CSS/JS concerns, and how ClarityConf got started. Plus, the origin of the phrase "design systems" (maybe?), and  what the NASA Graphic Standards Manual has to do with ClarityConf. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesJina AnneClarityConfThe Design Systems SlackQuarkSalesforce Theo for design tokensOld-school CSS tools Sass, Less, and StylusCSS Custom Properties (variables)Adam Morris and TachyonsSalesforce Lightning Design SystemNicole Sullivan and Mark Otto at The Mixin meetupRichard Danne, Designing for Earthlings and Astronauts at ClarityConf 2016The original 1976 NASA Graphic Standards ManualGartner Hype Cycle for UX 2024Penpot (Figma alt)Josh Silverman at CCABen Callahan's The Question🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

Brad Frost, a design system consultant and creator of Atomic Design, candidly reflects on the evolution of design systems. He shares insights into the shift from style guides to modular components spurred by mobile design. The discussion dives into the changing perceptions of efficiency, emphasizing the balance between valuable tasks and unnecessary complexities in design work. Brad also highlights the significance of collaboration between designers and developers, underscoring the importance of adapting to new frameworks without losing creativity.

📲 Text the show your thoughts!Elyse shares five predictions for design systems in 2025 and beyond in the second pre-season minisode. Text the show to share your thoughts and predictions and maybe even be featured in a future minisode!Early Bird tickets are available until January 15th for Into Design System's excellent annual virtual conference, featuring Nathan Curtis, Romina Kavcic, Cintia Romero, and more. Get your tickets now before prices go up at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

The discussion dives into the evolution and challenges surrounding design systems, enriched with personal anecdotes from the speaker's career. Key milestones showcase the journey and obstacles teams face in adoption. A significant emphasis is placed on the mindset shift required for success in a rapidly changing industry. Additionally, the complexities involved in creating and implementing design systems are examined, highlighting the need for collaboration and flexibility to cater to varying organizational needs.

📲 Text the show your thoughts!