Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast

Imagine uprooting your life nine times in eleven years and still finding a sense of belonging. Not for Christina Novak. Join Michelle and Christina as they unravel the art of seamless transitions, Milwaukee’s most exclusive concierge experience, and explore how genuine community is crafted, not stumbled upon. Discover why high-touch services are reshaping the way we settle into new cities, and how a tailored introduction can transform an overwhelming move into an extraordinary new chapter. Whether you’re a newcomer or a seasoned local, this is a conversation about redefining what it means to feel truly at home.   Christina Novak is a devoted mother of three and wife to retired NBA player and current sports analyst Steve Novak. Over the course of her husband’s 11 year career with 9 teams, 23 moves, and countless new beginnings—Christina mastered the art of adapting, relocating, and making each new city feel like home no matter how short the stay. Now, she’s turning her wealth of experience into a resource for others. Partnering with Falk Ruvin Gallagher, Wisconsin’s premier luxury real estate firm, Christina is dedicated to helping newcomers navigate the transition to Milwaukee with ease, warmth, and confidence. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Experiences with moving and integrating into a new community Real estate and neighborhoods The value of concierge services The Falk Ruvin Gallagher team Branding evolution and collaboration Relationship building as a community member Meaning of true reciprocity Social media and in-person connection Christina's aspirations with FRG ---------------------- RESOURCES: Episode 174: Client Case Study: FRG Real Estate Episode 215: Client Case Study: FRG Real Estate (Part 2) ----------------------- Guest info: To learn more about Christina and FRG, follow her on Instagram @ChristinaNovakConcierge, email her at Christina@FRGTeam.com and visit Falk Ruvin Gallagher's website, TheFRGTeam.com. ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? StickerGiant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMAPODCAST25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Are you building a business… or just your own very stressful job? Lauren Goldstein (aka the Biz Doctor) joins Michelle to discuss what makes a business “legacy” versus “lifestyle,” and why your self-worth shouldn’t be tied to your revenue report. From setting boundaries that actually stick, to leveling up in the age of AI, this conversation is a crash course for leaders, freelancers, and anyone determined not to reply to Slack messages from bed. Get the real secrets to finding freedom inside and outside of work.   Lauren Goldstein is who 7- and 8-figure business owners call when they’re stuck in the weeds of success and need their business to truly run without them. An award-winning business consultant and advisor, she is the founder of Golden Key Partnership, a boutique business consulting firm where for over a decade she has fixed broken team dynamics, untangled operational chaos, and helped leaders reclaim their time and sanity. Nicknamed The Biz Doctor®, Lauren diagnoses what is actually holding the business back and builds custom strategies that create clarity, capacity, and a culture that scales. Her work has helped some of the most respected small business owners build companies they actually enjoy running again, and through her top 5% globally ranked podcast, The Biz Doctor®, she shares those same unfiltered insights and tactics with business owners ready to lead smarter and work less. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Legacy and succession planning Legacy business vs. lifestyle business Personal brand vs. professional brand Identity, purpose, and burnout Productivity, structure and the work-life balance The 48-72-hour rule Mental health in entrepreneurship and employment Setting boundaries as an employee or freelancer AI's current role in business Future proofing your career with AI in the game Navigating uncertainty and community support ---------------------- RESOURCES: Episode 136: How to Scale Your Business Sustainably with Lauren Goldstein Listen to Lauren's podcast: The Biz Doctor Podcast https://www.goldenkeypartnership.com/podcast/ ----------------------- Guest info: To learn more about Lauren and her consulting, follow her on Instagram @ItsLaurenGoldstein and LinkedIn @LaurenGoldstein and visit her website, GoldenKeyPartnership.com ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMA25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Curious how in-person client visits can transform your entire approach to branding? Discover the unexpected insights, pivotal aha moments, and all your top questions answered as Michelle shares why stepping into your clients’ world leads to truly unforgettable and impactful results. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Benefits of meeting your clients in-person Question 1: Why bother going on-site? Question 2: Any aha moments that happened that wouldn't have online? Question 3: How does in-person energy shifts brand tone? Question 4: What's your go-to move when you walk into your client's space? Question 5: Have on-site visits changed our strategy? Question 6: How do you turn your field notes into brand assets or ideas? Question 7: How do you bill for client's on-site? Question 8: How to pitch the ROI for in-person visits ---------------------- RESOURCES: Episode 230: Client Case Study: The Galavant Society Episode 229: Why Your Rebrand Deserves a Launch Party Episode 215: Client Case Study: FRG Real Estate (Part 2) ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMAPODCAST25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high-quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Is playing by someone else’s rules keeping you small (and underpaid)? Business growth strategist Anniedi Essien joins Michelle to spill the bold truths on owning your expertise, pitching like a pro, and showing up as your most unapologetic self—sneakers, sparkle, and all. If you’re tired of underselling your brilliance and playing small, get ready to learn how to score those big corporate contracts, crush imposter syndrome, and bring your whole personality to the table. This one is a pep talk for everyone who’s ever wanted to land dream clients, set their own rules, and finally get paid what they’re worth.   Anniedi Essien is a Chief Swagger Officer, Business Growth Strategist and Keynote Speaker who loves empowering busy professionals to lead more healthy, wealthy and fulfilling lives. She went from burnt out as a top corporate healthcare executive to fired up as an entrepreneur by taking charge of her own health, regaining the sparkle in her eyes, and launching her dream biz at Idem Spark. Anniedi created Swagger School® to advise C-Suite executives, entrepreneurs and women in leadership on how to elevate their impact, influence and income—without sacrificing wellness—so they can build multiple streams of wealth and joy by growing with more corporate clients. As a former corporate buyer, she is passionate about equipping independent consultants with the tools they need to capture a bigger piece of the revenue pie globally by elevating their positioning and playing more boldly in the B2B space with swagger. Anniedi has a BA in biomedical ethics from Brown University and an MBA in strategy from NYU Stern School of Business. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Visionary branding and entrepreneurship insights Lead generation vs. demand generation Strategic partnering for limitless impact Overcoming imposter syndrome with authenticity What swagger is and finding your competitive advantage Redefining professionalism Staying aligned with yourself through design thinking The role of AI and your creative advantage Marketing to corporate buyers and scale up Networking and the value of community Hitting your revenue with only a handful of clients Advice for entrepreneurs in September ---------------------- RESOURCES: Access Anniedi's FREE Ultimate Guide to Sealing More Corporate Deals to slay sales with corporate clients Episode 231: Styled to Lead: The Intersection of Aesthetic and Authority Episode 201: Building a Global Brand with Shay Bacani Episode 200: Our Teams' 2025 Bingoals Revealed Episode 176: Client Case Study: Piano C Property Management ----------------------- Guest info: To learn more about Anniedi and her consulting, follow her on Instagram @AnniediEssien and Facebook @Anniedi.Essien and visit her website, IdemSparkLife.com ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMA25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Ever wondered why some leaders just look like they have it all together before they even say a word? Michelle breaks down exactly why visual consistency is your leadership superpower—and how you can use aesthetics to command authority, build instant trust, and make your message impossible to ignore. Discover what it really takes to style your way into becoming the go-to expert everyone remembers and if you stick around, you'll get Michelle's framework for using styled leadership in practice. If you’re ready to turn heads and own your narrative (before you even say a word), this one’s for you. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Michelle's credentials and inside MKW Creative Co. Why aesthetic in leadership matter Examples of women whose aesthetics elevate their authority How aesthetic cuts through the noise The aesthetic/authority feedback loop Memorability and influence Branding yourself as a thought leader Brand personality matrix The Challenge for Leaders: Presentation and Perception Common gaps that undermine authority Framework for styled leadership   ---------------------- RESOURCES: Episode 218: What Real Leadership Looks Like with Veronica Perondi Episode 230: Client Case Study: The Galavant Society Episode 229: Why Your Rebrand Deserves a Launch Party Episode 208: Client Case Study: Avenue 8 Cocktails Episode 113: Hotel Lobby Candle with Lindsay Silberman YouTube: Meet the MKWCC Team ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMAPODCAST25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high-quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Ever dreamed of running away to India, Egypt, or Greece without waiting on anyone else's schedule? Meet Alle Pierce of The Gallivant Society, as she and Michelle dish on building a luxury travel brand from the ground up. From accidentally launching a business with a Canva logo to curating transformative, friendship-fueled adventures for women across the globe, you’ll get the inside scoop on what really goes into planning curated group trips. Sprinkle in tales of TV news burnout and launching a website that finally matches the five-star experience, this episode is proof that luxury doesn’t have to be boring, and travel is always better with the right crew.   Alle Pierce is the Founder, Travel Designer, and Chief Galavant Officer at The Galavant Society: a company offering curated, small-group travel experiences for independent and curious women. Before launching TGS, Alle spent over a decade as a TV journalist and Emmy Award–winning host, telling stories on-air around the country. When she's not galavanting, she produces travel content for the Olympics and tourism boards, emcees events for the American Society of Travel Advisors, and proudly serves as the Godmother of a luxury river cruise ship. At its heart, The Galavant Society is more than just travel. It’s a global community of women living boldly, on their own terms. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Alle's career backstory Transition to the travel industry Organizing her first group trip Brand naming and evolution MKW collab: from merch to branding Brand strategy and visual identity development Signature items: the Galavant Scarf Scaling and structuring the business Website and sales experience upgrade The brand reveal "wedding" launch party Lasting impact and brand belonging Gifting and client loyalty Looking forward: plans for future trips and collaborations ---------------------- RESOURCES: Episode 229: Why Your Rebrand Deserves a Launch Party Episode 159: Travel Photography Secrets with Girl Gone Abroad Partner with MKW Creative Co. on your rebrand!   ----------------------- Guest info: To learn more about The Galavant Society and their luxurious tours, follow them on Instagram @TheGalavantSociety and visit their website, TheGalavantSociety.com. ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMA25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Ready to do more than just swap your logo and call it a day? Michelle is sharing all the secrets on how to turn your rebrand into the event of the year. Think: curated dinners, themed parties, and branded goodies your clients will actually want to show off. Discover why the real power of a rebrand goes way beyond a pretty Instagram grid, how in-person events ignite real emotional connection (and sales!), two client case studies on how these work, and what it takes to turn your “ta-da!” moment into a brag-worthy experience people can’t stop talking about. If you’re thinking about leveling up your brand, you definitely want in on this. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: The milestone of rebranding What a rebrand means Why rebrand launches matter Falk Ruvin Gallagher's and The Galavant Society's in-person rebrand launch party's The power of physical events and experiences Creative brand reveal strategies Event hosting strategies Post-event strategies and measuring success ---------------------- RESOURCES: Check out The Galavant Society's rebrand Look at Falk Ruvin Gallagher's rebrand ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMAPODCAST25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high-quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Ever dreamt of running your own cozy coffee shop but have no idea what actually goes on behind the counter? Erica Escalante has brewed up a life in the cafe world— from Starbucks barista to flipping struggling businesses into must-visit neighborhood spots. Join Michelle and Erica as they dive into what it really takes to lead a happy team, why employee drama is actually YOUR problem, and how to make your cafe a unique experience. If you’re ready for an honest look at the world of small business ownership, this is the conversation you can’t miss.   Erica Escalante is a nationally respected cafe and bakery consultant, known for her honest, strategic, and heart-centered approach to small business operations. With nearly two decades in the specialty coffee industry—including almost 10 years owning and operating cafes and a commissary kitchen—she now dedicates her work to helping independent cafe owners across the country build profitable, sustainable, and people-centered businesses. She’s the founder of the Reina Cafe Accelerator, a 24-week mentorship program for cafe owners, and a frequent speaker at industry events like Coffee Fest and SCA Expo. Erica lives in Los Angeles, is a proud mom of two, and is on a mission to reshape the coffee industry for the better—one shop at a time. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Addressing team leadership concerns Navigating workforce challenges today Overcoming fear in business leadership Why hiring an advisor benefits you as a business owner The value of an outside eye Patience and progress over time The financial realities of running a cafe Standing out: differentiation and storytelling Strategic perception in business Brand strategy: value vs. volume Transitioning from cafe owner to consultant ---------------------- RESOURCES: Partner with MKW Creative Co. on your rebrand! Episode 175: Offboarding Checklist for Brand Designers Episode 154: Streamline Your Design Process with Canva with Juls Christie-Clark ----------------------- Guest info: To learn more about Erica and her distinct style, follow her on Instagram @Escalante_Erica, on Facebook @Erica Escalante or visit her website, EricaEscalante.com. ----------------------- Boring packaging? Forgettable branding? Sticker Giant fixes that with custom stickers and labels designed to make your brand stick—literally. Use code KMA25 at stickergiant.com for 25% off your first order. ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Ever feel like your branding assets are scattered everywhere and you’re one missing file away from chaos? Let Michelle show you how to keep your digital pantry stocked and your creative kitchen ready for action. Discover the difference between storing assets on Canva vs. Google Drive and get practical tips for organizing your logos, colors, fonts, and more without losing your brand consistency. Whether you’re one of our branding clients or just getting your brand off the ground, this 101 on file handoff, smart storage, and designer-approved digital hygiene is the recipe you need to keep your files organized. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: The different folders you can expect with a MKW Creative Co. branding project Google Drive: the bunker of branding assets Canva: your branding kitchen Differences between file types Working between Google Drive and Canva Setting up your Canva brand kit Practicing good Canva hygiene Maintaining brand consistency across platforms Databases and archiving ---------------------- RESOURCES: Partner with MKW Creative Co. on your rebrand! Episode 175: Offboarding Checklist for Brand Designers Episode 154: Streamline Your Design Process with Canva with Juls Christie-Clark ----------------------- Social media in 2025 is pure chaos—platforms are shifting, algorithms are unpredictable, and keeping up feels like a full-time job. That’s why we're sharing our 2025 Social Media Webinar that we share with all of our clients. It's a no-BS breakdown of what’s working, what’s dead, and how to build a strategy that actually delivers. Whether you’re a brand owner or a social media pro, this resource is your shortcut to navigating the wild west of online marketing. Tune in at MKWCreative.co/resources/p/2025socialmedia ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Learn what creative professionals really need to succeed. Amanda Moul, VP of Account Management at The Shipyard, joins Michelle to talk about the intersection of creativity, business, and leadership. From transitioning from a design background into account management to leading big-name campaigns, Amanda shares her insights on balancing hard and soft skills, building a personal brand, and thriving in a fast-changing industry. They discuss everything from generational shifts in work ethic to how AI is reshaping advertising. If you want to level up both your creativity and your career strategy, this episode is packed with lessons.   Amanda helps brands find their voice, navigate challenges, and bring big ideas to life—on time, on budget, and with purpose. She's passionate about translating business objectives into actionable strategy, fostering collaborative team environments, and ensuring creative work stays connected to real audience insight. Her leadership style is rooted in transparency, trust, and a deep belief that the best work happens when teams feel supported, empowered, and aligned. Her current role at The Shipyard empowers her to be part of the full process, leading talented and passionate teams to transform research and insights into strategic, impactful advertising programs and business solutions for reputable clients across various sectors, including government, non-profit, sustainability, energy, tourism, entertainment, and education. ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Amanda’s career shift from design to account management. The importance of balancing creativity with business strategy. Soft skills and leadership in agency life. Generational differences in work ethic and personal branding. The role of internships, portfolios, and LinkedIn in job hunting. Taste vs. technical skills—how to stand out as a creative. Agency vs. freelance work: finding your career fit. AI in advertising—risks, ethics, and opportunities. Public speaking and communication as underrated career skills. The future of advertising and adapting to changing platforms. ---------------------- RESOURCES: Episode 128: Meet the Team: Online Business Manager Cody Garner-Howe ----------------------- GUEST INFO: To work with Amanda, follow the Shipyard on Instagram @TheShipyard and visit their website, TheShipyard.com ----------------------- Social media in 2025 is pure chaos—platforms are shifting, algorithms are unpredictable, and keeping up feels like a full-time job. That’s why we're sharing our 2025 Social Media Webinar that we share with all of our clients. It's a no-BS breakdown of what’s working, what’s dead, and how to build a strategy that actually delivers. Whether you’re a brand owner or a social media pro, this resource is your shortcut to navigating the wild west of online marketing. Tune in at MKWCreative.co/resources/p/2025socialmedia ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode is brought to you by Zencastr. Create high quality video and audio content. Get your first two weeks free at https://zencastr.com/?via=kma. ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard