The Nugget Climbing Podcast

Alex Honnold, professional climber and star of the film Free Solo, joins the podcast. They discuss his unknown epic solos, near misses, lessons learned from climbing legends, pooping while free soloing, the success of Free Solo, commitment to excellence, and more!

Will Bosi is a 24-year-old climber from Scotland who has emerged as one of the best climbers in the world. This interview is hot off the press! Will made the second ascent of ‘Burden of Dreams’ V17 less than two weeks ago and joins us for a proper geek out about the send. We talked about his process of projecting the replica and the actual boulder, his feats of finger strength and where to draw the line between party tricks and useful strength, doing the second ascent of ‘Mutation’ at Raven Tor, his absolute dream project, and much more!Check out The Nugget on YouTube:youtube.com/@thenuggetclimbingThe Nugget is brought to you by BetterHelp!betterhelp.com/NUGGETUse this link for 10% off your first month!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!And check out EP 22 with Justin Brown to learn more about how to use Rhino products!Check out Green Chef!greenchef.com/nugget60Use code "NUGGE60" at checkout for 60% off plus free shipping!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order! We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt MickolasBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/will-bosiNuggets:(00:00:00) – Intro(00:05:18) – The emotions we experience after a big send, and looking for new projects in Scotland(00:07:56) – How sending Burden of Dreams has changed his self-perception, and the style of hard project that Will is searching for(00:10:53) – Being from Scotland and currently based in Sheffield(00:12:17) – Following Will’s journey trying the replica with Aidan and Stefano, live streams from Finland, and taking seven years for Burden to get repeated(00:15:38) – Mutation continuing to go unrepeated again after Will did it(00:17:23) – Is Will the first person to have climbed V17 and 5.15c? (9A boulder and 9b+ sport)(00:20:07) – Will’s first time trying the Burden replica in Aidan’s shed(00:23:32) – Will’s thoughts on Shawn’s progress on Burden(00:25:10) – The warmup game on Burden, and the last move(00:30:16) – Will’s standard training session, and what his process looked like training on the Bruden replica(00:33:45) – Doing the first move 5 times in a session, and feeling stronger every session(00:36:26) – How similar the replica is to the actual boulder, and what surprised Will the most when he tried Burden(00:41:12) – How Will’s beta compared to Nalle’s, and the heal hook beta(00:46:17) – What a full session looked like on the replica,  and how that compared to a session on the actual boulder(00:51:28) – His skin when he sent the boulder, feeling strongest on his first try of the day, and the send(00:54:48) – How long a pair of shoes lasts on the boulder(00:57:33) – Will’s shoe selection for Burden, and struggling with the second move(00:58:53) – The pulley setup on the replica, comparing it to Katie Lamb’s experience on Spectre, and the usefulness of power spots(01:08:50) – Will replicas change the way we think about flashing boulders?(01:12:03) – The future of replica training, and the Alphane replica in Aidan’s shed(01:15:35) – Will’s thoughts on the grades of Burden, Alphane, and his FA Honey Badger(01:26:27) – Will’s feats of finger strength on the hangboard(01:30:57) – Where is the line between party tricks vs. functional finger strength?(01:34:21) – A breakdown of Mutation 9a+/b(01:38:24) – Bigger edge training vs. micros(01:40:52) – How often throughout the year Will does his go-to style of training session, and building volume vs. intensity(01:46:28) – Will’s absolute dream in climbing, and his experience on Excalibur 5.15c (9b+)(01:49:10) – Breakdown of the moves on Excalibur(01:52:21) – What’s next for Will, and potential plans for the summer(01:53:59) – Will’s thoughts on endurance training, and his story of sending Estado Critico 9a(01:55:13) – Being more thoughtful about your climbing(01:57:17) – Feeling excited to relax and chill, and plans to release a film of Burden(01:58:22) – Subscribe to Will’s YouTube channel for send footage!

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! This is a teaser of a follow-up with Katie Lamb. We talked about her recent send of Spectre V14 in Bishop CA, breaking down crux moves into multiple pieces, how she trains on a spray wall, her top 5 go-to lifts in the weight room, projecting tricks, dopamine snacks vs. substance, what she learned from Spectre, having the travel bug, goals for 2023, and more!Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! *The full version is 1:12:49.*Watch the uncut video interview here!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingKatie’s Original Episode:EP 145: Katie Lamb 

Charlie Schreiber is a world-class climbing coach who has helped day 1 athletes become National Champions, 5.14d sport climbers, and V15 boulderers. We talked about the value of asking “why”, giving kids hard work and then reward, finding fresh lemons to squeeze, puzzle books and getting inside the mind of the puzzle maker, our shared goal to climb V13, how to have a good poop in the morning (every time), and much more!Check out Athletic Greens!athleticgreens.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!Check out Rocky Talkie!RockyTalkie.com/NuggetUse this link to get 10% off your first order of backcountry radios!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order! We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, and Zach EmeryBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/charlie-schreiberNuggets:0:03:19 – My painting of Monkey Face at Smith Rock, and hominess0:04:34 – Charlie’s apartment, and making and collecting art0:08:08 – What Charlie thought I looked like from listening to the podcast0:10:48 – How Charlie got into coaching, routesetters as choreographers, and building a successful climbing team from scratch0:16:49 – Austin Hoyt and Adam Shahar, Charlie’s own competition background, and being obsessed with coaching and giving back to the kids0:18:37 – Where Charlie got his coaching ideas, and the emphasis on humor, games, and play0:22:37 – “The only reason anyone’s going to give effort to something is if they believe in it.”0:24:38 – Hard work, and then reward (e.g. capture the flag)0:26:38 – Motivating adult clients, and working with one of his clients to get better at slab0:30:15 – The school system, and understanding why you are doing things0:32:26 – Slab climbing fundamentals0:35:38 – Spending time on fundamental skills, the learning zone, and perfect repeats0:40:26 – Adding structure to the warmup, and adherence as #10:43:39 – Customizing training for each individual, and finding all of the lemons to squeeze0:47:31 – How routesetting helped Charlie’s climbing, and asking “why”0:50:53 – How asking “why” applies to outdoor climbs0:53:53 – Making up your own climbs in the gym, puzzle books, and getting inside the mind of the puzzle maker1:03:15 – The forced move drill1:05:35 – Charlie’s goal to climb V13, and the path to get there1:12:10 – My Follow-Up with Emil Abrahamsson, my experience with fueling my training better, and momentum1:14:37 – More about Charlie’s approach to climbing V13, and finger training with large hands1:17:13 – My goal for Rocklands, how Charlie approaches a trip, and the value of getting on really hard climbs1:23:34 What Charlie is working on improving to climb V13, and my plans to project a V12 and V13 in Rocky Mountain this Fall1:29:23 – “Never, ever, ever give up.” - Winston Churchill1:33:58 – Charlie’s honeymoon1:35:36 – Using your spouse/partner as an accountability tool1:39:44 – Valuing climbing for the experiences rather than self-worth1:44:11 – How to have a good poop in the morning, every time1:49:11 – My paleo autoimmune diet experiment, and having full meals at the crag1:51:40 – My bicep tendon injury1:52:45 – Charlie’s experiment with an alkaline diet1:55:39 – How Charlie blew up on Instagram2:03:05 – Being awarded the “Dyno King” by Chris Sharma, and drawing inspiration from Tyson Schoene2:05:37 – Setting the record straight with Austin Hoyt2:09:58 – Plugs and wrap up

Melina Costanza is a competition powerhouse and the 2021 US Boulder National Champion. She opened up recently about her struggles with an eating disorder and decided to step away from competitions. We talked about her foot injury and surgery, why patent law is similar to climbing, how sports glamorize suffering, getting stronger during recovery, how gratitude can impact your training, and fun facts about Melina from ketchup to baby teeth necklaces.Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!And check out EP 22 with Justin Brown to learn more about how to use Rhino products!Check out Chalk Cartel!chalkcartel.comUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 20% off your next order!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!Check out PhysiVantage!physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order! We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, and Zach EmeryBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/melina-costanzaNuggets:0:06:25 – Update on Melina’s foot surgery and recovery0:10:27 – The patent bar exam, and similarities between patent law and climbing0:15:15 – Legos, and being a nerd growing up0:16:45 – How taking her first physics class improved her climbing0:19:30 – Modern volume climbing0:24:06 – How Melina is thinking about her climbing moving forward, and training for upcoming competitions0:26:20 – Plans to get back into sport climbing, and Melina’s Tumbler account0:28:31 – Why Melina decided to quit climbing in college0:33:36 – Fun in competitions, and only doing competitions that she wants to be at0:36:48 – Expectations and pressure, and competing to win vs. competing to not lose0:42:25 – Competitions as data, and “shoulding”0:45:21 – Melina’s Instagram post about her eating disorder, and the story of breaking her foot0:50:40 – The distortion your mind experiences with an eating disorder, and how sports glamorize suffering0:57:42 – How your identity becomes entangled in an eating disorder, and rewriting the stories you tell yourself1:01:53 – The importance of including fat and carbs in your diet, and getting stronger quickly once she started fueling properly1:09:54 – Taking a leap of faith, and being vulnerable publically to help others1:15:40 – A comment from Nicole1:16:23 – Patron question from Katja: What inspired her to go public with her story?1:19:13 – Not letting her eating disorder define her1:20:09 – Did talking about it publically help?1:22:53 – Patron question from Ana: Did anyone bring up Melina’s weight as a concern?1:24:50 – Patron question from Eric: How would someone bring up concerns about an eating disorder in a tactful way?1:27:10 – Patron question from Zachary: How does Melina deal with intrusive thoughts around weight? How does she balance performance with recovery?1:30:52 – Disconnecting morality from food, and sweets1:34:31 – How not eating enough disrupts sleep1:37:30 – Fun facts with Melina Costanza!1:37:37 – Tattooing people in high school1:39:02 – Ketchup1:40:44 – Container store1:42:05 – Whiteboards and houseplants1:43:54 – Taylor Swift1:47:41 – Doja Cat1:49:46 – Sharks1:50:18 – The meat packing industry in the early 1900s1:51:59 – Parents and academics1:54:17 – Training at home during covid with her brother, and the role of gratitude in training1:59:07 – Current training, and getting strong2:04:29 – Training her fingers for the first time, and using the Tindeq (use code NUGGET for $10 off!)2:07:47 – How hard can Melina climb with one foot?2:09:18 – More fun facts with Melina!2:09:50 – Frozen peas2:10:46 – Baby teeth necklace2:11:50 – Forensic pathology DVDs2:15:02 – Raw octopus2:15:49 – Medival torture museum, and developing confidence2:19:15 – Fencing2:20:20 – Olympic aspirations2:21:23 – A couple of questions from Tyson Schoene2:26:19 – Wrap up

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! Matt Heyliger is back on the podcast and joins me to talk about my bicep tendon injury back in December in Hueco, my rehab process, and how I was able to get back to climbing V10 in less than three months. We discuss the different stages of recovery, using BFR as part of my rehab, how to make the transition back to training, and how I am currently training for an upcoming bouldering trip to Magic Wood and Rocklands.Matt's Website:mattheyliger.comBecome a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! *The full version is 1:31:47.*Watch the uncut video interview here!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingMatt’s Original Episode:EP 143: Matt Heyliger 

Johnny Dawes is a legendary British rock climber known for his exceptional footwork and unique dynamic style. We talked about his first ascent of Indian Face (the first-ever E9) when it was likely the most dangerous route in the world, climbing 5.13b (8a) slabs without using his hands, tips for mastering footwork, his writing practice and current book project, and life lessons involving three-legged stools, omelets, pasta, icebergs, and more.Watch This Video!Johnny's 7-Minute Video on The GuardianCheck out PhysiVantage!physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!Check out Athletic Greens!athleticgreens.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!Check out Rocky Talkie!RockyTalkie.com/NuggetUse this link to get 10% off your first order of backcountry radios! We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, and Zach EmeryBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/johnny-dawesNuggets:0:04:22 – A couple of fun stories from our past lives0:08:01 – Having a blue day, dicking about, and thoughts on what he wants to accomplish in his life0:10:25 – The head, the heart, and the gut0:11:22 – Knowing where you’re going, the water bottle, and the grannies0:15:51 – Why I was so excited to talk with Johnny0:17:24 – Crawling out the driver's window of his car with a brick on the accelerator0:21:42 – Breaking down one of his legendary no-hand climbs (watch the Guardian video!)0:26:35 – Johnny’s ideal staircase, and flattening the world to flatter our egos0:30:07 – Bolts and baked potatoes0:32:04 – Johnny’s thoughts about modern bouldering, and being impressed with Shawn Raboutou0:33:38 – Chess problems, eyes bigger than tummy, and what brought the best out of Johnny in his climbing0:37:55 – Sticking an 8A (V11) hang on two terrible holds0:42:06 – What Johnny looks for in climbing, and the musicality of climbing0:52:04 – Hank Pascal0:53:27 – Watchin Jerry Moffatt climb Masters Wall, and why Johnny felt compelled to climb Indian Face, the world’s first E91:01:09 – North Wales, the apple tree, and wanting to be a part of the history of the sport1:10:01 – Sending Indian Face, partying at the disco, trying The Meltdown 9a, and some of Johnny’s recent new routes at Cloggy1:15:19 – Breakdown of the difficulty and gear on Indian Face, and how it got its name1:20:36 – Kurt Albert on the escalator1:23:59 – Patron comment from Artjom, and no-hands tips and exercises from Johnny1:27:48 – The hardest things Johnny has climbed without his hands, and climbing 1600+ “walks” in Britain1:31:15 – Spectacular Walks on British Rock1:32:38 – Making grip1:35:47 – How no-hands climbing applies to hard technical rock climbing1:37:55 – How Johnny Dawes approaches improving footwork1:41:19 – Writing the Footwork Handbook1:43:38 – His autobiography, his writing practice, and the mysteries of consciousness1:47:58 – Zen and the Art of Archery1:51:03 – A window into being alive, and games that keep you present1:53:12 – “Your enthusiasm tells you who you are”, and climbing in gardening gloves1:55:19 – Patron question from Will: What climbers inspired Johnny early on?1:57:50 – Music, writing, and artistic inspirations1:58:40 – Who does Johnny pay attention to these days in climbing?2:01:05 – Patron question from Nick: What do you think climbing will or should look like in another 30 years?2:03:12 – Climbing shoe evolution, and the world’s strongest man2:05:19 – Life lessons with Johnny Dawes, the three-legged stool, and making omelets and pasta2:12:20 – Formative causation2:14:19 – Go to bed when you’re tired, and treat people like icebergs2:15:35 – “It is never too late to be who you might have been.”2:19:37 – Roof man, and being useless2:22:12 – Reading Jeff Smoot’s book, and why humans do dangerous things2:25:22 – Wanting to do impossible things, and “modern life can go f*** itself”2:26:57 – “Can I go?”

Fundamentals (Part 6 of 6) — In this episode, Jesse and I dive into how to structure your climbing year. We talk about the circumstances that led to some of our best years in climbing, the importance of having a plan and taking notes, why focus tends to produce excellence, how to build from one phase to the next, and making sure your training supports your climbing. Happy planning!Listen to more Fundamentals episodes!thenuggetclimbing.com/fundamentalsJesse’s Original Episode:EP 127: Jesse FirestoneTom Randall's Follow-Up:Follow-Up: Tom Randall The Nugget is brought to you by BetterHelp!betterhelp.com/NUGGETUse this link for 10% off your first month!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app! (Available for iOS and Android)Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!Check out LMNT!DrinkLMNT.com/NUGGETUse this link and get a free sample pack with any purchase! We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, and Zack Emery Become a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/fundamentals-part-6Nuggets:(00:00:00) – Intro(00:02:55) – Sending my first three V11s in 2021, why 2022 was less successful than 2021, and "focus tends to produce excellence"(00:09:56) – Why 2022 was a great year for Jesse, and flashing Free Willie V10 in Hueco Tanks(00:11:56) – Jesse’s new philosophy, and realization that he will never try everything on his list(00:13:37) – Steven’s Tip #1: Write out a rough plan for your year(00:16:31) – Jesse’s Tip #1: Map out the major phases for your year(00:17:16) – Steven’s Tip #2: Reflect and take notes on your previous year(00:20:01) – Jesse’s Tip #2: Keep a daily journal(00:21:17) – Bonus Tip: Celebrate your successes, and write down your top 10 climbing experiences at the end of each year(00:22:14) – What Jesse includes in his daily journal, and reviewing once a season(00:24:21) – My preferred journaling method, and the +/- system(00:26:43) – Jesse’s Google Keep beta(00:28:05) – Steven’s Tip #3: Give yourself time to transition between disciplines(00:34:36) – Jesse’s Tip #3: Write down three things that you want to work on to be prepared for each phase(00:40:05) – Jesse’s Tip #4: Your training should support your climbing (put the climbing first)(00:43:27) – Steven’s Tip #4: If you want to hit a peak performance, set aside three months to build toward that goal(00:44:34) – Steven’s Tip #5: Listen to my Follow-Up with Tom Randall on how to program your training(00:45:23) – Jesse’s Pitfall #1: Just winging it(00:45:43) – Steven’s Pitfall #1: Not having a plan(00:47:21) – Jesse’s Pitfall #2: Not rolling with the punches(00:48:28) – Steven’s Pitfall #2: Not taking notes (or not summarizing your notes in a way that is actually useful)(00:49:22) – Jesse’s Pitfall #3: Not taking a rest phase(00:52:14) – Bonus Tip: If you want to keep a session short, make a plan for right after the session(00:53:55) – Steven’s Pitfall #3: Bouncing around too often with disciplines, styles, rock types, etc.(00:55:24) – Jesse’s Pitfall #4: Putting all of your time, and energy, and using all of the good conditions for one limit thing (throw yourself a bone every once in a while!)(00:57:12) – The progression zone(00:58:04) – Steven’s Top Tip: Make a plan and take notes, and listen to my Follow-Up with Tom Randall(00:58:47) – Jesse’s Top Tip: Focus on the stuff that matters: no more than three(00:59:22) – Jesse’s two goals for 2022(01:00:13) – Let us know if you want a season 2!

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! Emil Abrahamsson is back on the podcast to talk about sending his first V15. We talked about how gaining 15 lbs (6.5 kg) led to sending his hardest boulder, how and why he overhauled his training, how he’s achieved long-term finger strength gains, sending his most meaningful project with Power of Now V14, my goal to climb my first V13, his advice for me, and much more!Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! *The full version is 2:06:03.*Watch the uncut video interview here!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingEmil’s Original Episode:EP 85: Emil Abrahamsson (Sept 6, 2021) 

Sam Stroh is caffeinated, psyched, and ready to send everything from double-digit highballs to free routes on El Cap. We talked about his early climbing and onsighting Moonlight Buttress (5.12+), our coffee and chocolate addictions, finding the perfect climbing partner, the biggest lessons from each discipline of climbing, suffering on the side of El Cap, botching it with tactics, and harrowing sends.Check out The Nugget on YouTube:youtube.com/@thenuggetclimbingThe Nugget is brought to you by BetterHelp!betterhelp.com/NUGGETUse this link for 10% off your first month!Check out Athletic Greens!athleticgreens.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!Check out PhysiVantage!physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order! We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, and Zach EmeryBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/sam-strohNuggets:0:05:17 – Coffee and morning rituals0:10:25 – Sam’s stretching and evening routines, and the self-care bell curve0:13:42 – Sam shares his intentions for the conversation and topics he wants to cover0:19:27 – Onsighting the Moonlight Buttress 5.12+ in Zion at age 20 with bad tactics0:28:36 – Meeting his climbing partner Adrian, and trying Desert Gold and Jet Stream in Red Rocks0:32:31 – Switching between disciplines, and Sam’s thoughts on how he and Adrian are so perfectly aligned0:35:59 – Sam’s background in sports0:37:54 – The benefits of bouldering for big wall climbing0:40:44 – The method to the madness with switching disciplines, and cultivating long-term relationships0:43:09 – What inspires Sam the most long-term, and having great stories0:48:39 – Wet moss on El Niño, and trying Wet Lycra Nightmare with Jordan Cannon0:55:00 – Injuring his hand on the Salathe0:59:15 – Working on Wet Lycra Nightmare, and Sam and I connect over our love-hate relationship with Smith Rock1:06:41 – The mindfulness and patience of bouldering1:12:06 – The quintessential sport climbing experience1:16:28 – Sam’s biggest lesson from big wall climbing: get a waterproof portaledge fly1:24:44 – Thoughts on big wall ethics and style1:34:12 – Sam’s ape index, and the height-dependent nature of El Cap1:37:34 – The Freerider story1:45:28 – Favorite big wall and bouldering snacks1:46:58 – Sam’s knee injury1:51:01 – Upcoming trip to Spain, Greece, and France1:52:21 – Thoughts on the lack of information on endurance training for climbing, and rehabbing his shoulder1:58:30 – Lessons from switching between bouldering or training and sport climbing2:02:11 – No more treadwalls in gyms2:03:44 – Watching the river vs. diving in