The Copywriter Club Podcast

Heather Farris, a Pinterest Marketing Expert for service providers and course creators, shares her journey from accounting to mastering Pinterest for business success. She discusses how to leverage Pinterest as a unique marketing platform, emphasizing keyword strategies and compelling pin design. Listeners learn about creating diverse pins, maximizing engagement, and the potential of Pinterest ads. Heather also highlights the importance of a growth mindset and offers practical tips for getting clients from Pinterest to your email list or products.

Explore the hidden struggles of copywriters and why many fail to break the six-figure mark. Discover transformative success stories from those who've participated in a unique business accelerator program designed for copywriters. Learn how important it is to communicate value over mere deliverables, and the power of community support in overcoming professional challenges. Uncover the secrets to effective branding, personal growth, and the art of storytelling to captivate clients and elevate your copywriting business.

Matthew Dicks, an accomplished author and storyteller, dives into the transformative power of storytelling in this engaging discussion. He shares his 'Homework for Life' method, turning daily experiences into compelling narratives. Matthew emphasizes how authentic stories foster connection and empathy, illustrating this with personal anecdotes. He also explores the nuances between writing fiction and nonfiction, revealing that both require a unique blend of creativity and structure. Discover how to enhance your communication and copywriting through the art of storytelling.

Morgan Kitzmiller, ConvertKit’s Creator Growth Manager and founder of Root and Rise, shares insights on email strategy. She discusses the booming landscape of newsletters and highlights tools for creators to enhance their outreach. Morgan explores the importance of automations, multimedia content, and personalization to engage subscribers. Collaborative strategies for list growth are emphasized, alongside monetization tactics that view email lists as valuable income sources. Her expertise sheds light on innovative ways to utilize email in building successful creator businesses.

Copywriter Francis Mayan shares how he transitioned from client work to selling digital products through email marketing. Topics include building community on Twitter, effective email marketing strategies, repurposing newsletters as course bonuses, challenges of being a nomadic copywriter, importance of mentorship, and strategies for building a successful copywriting business.

Copywriter Wendy Ann Jones joins the podcast to discuss a new resource for improving copywriting skills. Topics include the importance of consistent practice, transitioning from a corporate job to copywriting, attracting new clients, real-world practice for copywriting skills, mindset and personal growth, and navigating challenges in starting a copywriting business.

Amanda Natividad, a content creator, discusses carving out a role as an individual contributor, research, and growing an online audience. The podcast covers building an online platform, the journey to VP of Marketing at SparkToro, utilizing tools like SparkToro for audience research, building a social media audience, balancing work and content creation, and exploring opportunities for copywriters in content creation.

What is good content? How is A.I. impacting the creation of content? And what are the opportunities for content writers in the near future? All good questions that we didn't have answers to. Until we invited Ross Simmons to join us for the 402nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This is a good one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Create Once, Distribute Forever by Ross Simmonds The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Before we jump into this episode, I just want to give you a quick heads up that The Copywriter Accelerator will be opening up for the one and only time this year… at the end of August. I won’t share any details at the moment, you can find out more when you visit thecopywriterclub.com/waitlist. Over the past decade, written content has become a critical marketing component for tens of thousands of organizations looking to get attention online. That content takes a lot of different forms from articles and blog posts to case studies, lead magnets, white papers and other written assets used to attract and keep the attention of readers. But what makes good content? How is AI impacting content writers today? And how do you ensure that you clients see content as an investment that pays off, rather than a cost that they need to cut? Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I talked with content writer and founder of the content agency Foundation Marketing, Ross Simmonds. Ross got his start writing about fantasy football in high school and has been recognized as a top marketer by publications like BuzzSumo and SEMrush. His work has been featured in dozens of publications including Forbes, HuffingtonPost and CBC. Ross answered those questions I just posed and a lot more. This interview opened my eyes to several new opportunities and I think you’re going to like it. But before we jump in with Ross… We have a new gift for you as a listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sized guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. It’s a bit like having a couple dozen of the best copywriters in your pocket advising you on how to find your next client. To get your copy, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket and download this new guide. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Ross Simmonds. Rob Marsh: Ross, welcome to the podcast. You are one of the people that I have had on my list for a long time, and have been wanting to talk to you. We've had a little trouble connecting the last couple of months. You've had some travel and lots of stuff going on. But let's start out the way that we like to here on the podcast. And that is, tell us about your story. How did you become a content marketer and now ultimately founder of Foundation Content Marketing Agency? Ross Simmonds: Yeah, Rob, thanks for having me on. I'm excited for this conversation. I'll take people back into time a little bit. So I've always had a passion for writing and for creating things from the time I was a young kid. When I was a young kid, I fell into that whole meme and being obsessed with the Roman Empire. And I was writing books about what the Roman Empire must have been like. And I was doing that probably when I was like 10 years old. So early on, I was creating and writing chapter books and stuff like that. As time went on, I continued to be passionate about writing and creating.  And in university, I ran a fantasy football blog. And I was writing every single day about fantasy sports and how I thought people should adjust their strategies in the wonderful world of fantasy football. In parallel to that, me and my sister, we created a community dedicated to a video game called The Sims. Some of your listeners might be familiar with it. We played back in the The early days of The Sims when things were very pixelated and all of that stuff, graphics weren't close to where they are today, but we ran a community on that and I was writing constantly.  So at this moment, when I was writing about fantasy football in The Sims, the light bulbs went off that I could live in, arguably, the middle of nowhere. I live in a place called Nova Scotia, Canada, up on the East Coast, above Maine, small population, and I was reaching people all over the globe. And at that moment, I knew that this internet thing was going to be special. So I started to continue to work on my writing and my skills. But as the fantasy football blog took off, as the Sims community took off, my traffic went up, but my marks went down. And my mom was like, Ross, listen, you have to start writing about what you're learning in school. So I shifted my blog to start writing about marketing. And as I wrote about marketing, I started to get interesting conversations from people who were marketers and already had graduated. And I wrote a blog post about how these are the books that you need to read before you break into advertising, before I even broke into advertising. But people were loving it. And I was like, okay, this is fascinating. This thing is gonna stick.  So I continued and continued to write about marketing. And you fast forward a few years and more and more opportunities started to show up at my desk because of the work that I was doing online and writing and sharing my ideas. And ultimately, that led to me being very busy as a marketer, helping people who would reach out, wanting support, whether it was content creation, copywriting, et cetera. That was kind of the craft that I had learned was creating content. And I started to support these brands. started to work very late nights, realized that's not scalable, started to hire a team and build out a team. And here we are today. So long story, a little bit longer. I fell into, in many ways, a passion for writing and was able to turn that into my career today. Rob Marsh: Obviously, blogging has changed a bit since you started it. I wonder if there's still anything, though, that's applicable from those early days of blogging to what we do today. So for anybody who maybe wasn't familiar with blogging, you know, way back when, when The Sims was actually a pixelated, you know, video game, whatever. So we're talking 2003, 2004, maybe 2008, whatever. There was a lot of conversation that used to happen on blogs, and that doesn't really happen anymore. but there's still stuff from those early lessons I'm sure that apply to what you do today. Tell us, you know. Ross Simmonds: I would agree. Yeah, so I think one of the best parts about back then is you could press publish on a blog and conversations, debates, arguments, discussions would happen directly on there. And that's kind of lost. But still at its core, I believe that when it comes to content creation, content marketing, developing new stories, whether it's a video, whether it's a podcast, Whether it's a blog post, a status update on LinkedIn, or one of the other channels, I think you do want to foster and try to stir up a bit of a conversation. And that ultimately leads to connection and community. So the essence of what I believe we should strive for is to create things that are worth talking about. Seth Godin had this idea way back in the day where he said, you should strive to create content that's remarkable. And content that's remarkable is essentially content that's worth making a remark about. And if you can create content that inspires people to make a remark, then you have created a piece of content that can facilitate a dialogue, and that is, even back then, the magic of the internet. The magic today is that it gives all of us the ability to have conversations, to interact, to challenge ideas, to support ideas, and to have a discussion with one another. And ideally, be able to become better because of it. So to me, I try to always encourage my teams and other writers that I talk to, to embrace content creation with a simple framework that I call the four Es: educate, engage, entertain, and empower.  When you are creating stories online, you should try to educate people and give them information that they've never had before. You should entertain them, put a smile on their face. There's no easier way to somebody's heart than to make them laugh, to make them feel good. And then empower because that's celebrating other people's success. And that always feels good. And then the last one is engage. And engage is when I believe you're able to really stir up that dialogue that leads to community, that leads to connection. And that's when a lot of magic happens. So if you can embrace those methodologies, I think you can win. And those are some of the lessons that I learned back then that I still carry with me today, even though blogging is a lot different. Rob Marsh: Okay, I want to come back to this idea just a little bit when we talk maybe a little bit about distribution and where that conversation happens today. But before we get to that, let's talk about content because content world has changed drastically even just in the last couple of years and who knows what it'll be in two years from now. Um, but in addition to that, there is so much bad content and some, I mean, even, even, you know, yesterday, like you're right. Ross Simmonds: Like the amount of volume of bad content now is at a level that I don't think. anyone could have ever predicted. It's fascinating. Rob Marsh: Yeah, it's awful. And I think that creates both a unique problem, but a huge opportunity. So let's talk a little bit about content. What makes content good?

Copywriter and client acquisition specialist Ryan Guthrie shares three ways to get clients on The Copywriter Club Podcast. Topics include landing larger projects, ghostwriting books, personal discipline, structured interviews, client acquisition strategies, effective communication, and creative collaborations.

*Boom* This is the 400th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And our guest for this episode is the CEO of The Nonfiction Authors Association, Stephanie Chandler. She recently published the Nonfiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan and we thought it would be great to find out more about how to write, publish and launch a book into the world. Stephanie did not disappoint. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Nonfiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan by Stephanie Chandler The Nonfiction Author Association The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Transcript: Rob Marsh: Before I introduce today’s guest and episode, this is the official 400th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. I’m not sure Kira and I ever envisioned this podcast going this long. In fact, other than wanting to have deep discussions that asked hard questions of expert copywriters, I’m not sure what we expected.  So many people have told us they are copywriters today because they were inspired by this podcast. Or by the stories our guests have shared. Or because they jumped into one of our programs designed to help them grow. So I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for making this podcast the world’s most popular copywriting podcast. And now on to today’s show… We’ve talked about writing a book on this podcast several times. But it’s one thing to want to write a book, and another thing to have the tools and plan to make it happen. So when I got a copy of The Non-fiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan, I thought we should probably interview the author on the podcast and dive into what it takes to write and launch a book. Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I talked with former copywriter and current CEO of the non-profit author’s association, Stephanie Chandler. Stephanie founded the Non-fiction author’s association, so she was the perfect person to talk to about this subject as well as when you should take a leap of faith you might not be ready for and what gets taken when thieves rob a bookstore.  But before we jump in with Stephanie…  There’s a question that clients ask before they decide whether something you write is worth paying a lot or a little for. That question is “Can I do this?” Most clients can write a blog post. Or an email. It might not be as good as the one you would write, but they could do a passable job. Those projects don’t feel all that valuable because clients can visualize themselves creating them. They’re not hard. Fewer clients think they can strategize and build an acquisition funnel. Or a sales page. Or a book. So these projects are more valuable to clients (which means you can charge more to do them). And almost no clients have the skills to manage sophisticated email marketing tools like Klavio, ActiveCampaign, or even ConvertKit. And if they do, they’re often too busy to do this work themselves. These skills are among the most valuable of all. So how do you add a skill like managing email marketing tools to your copywriting services? This week in The Copywriter Underground, we’ll show you. We’ve invited guest expert and email strategist Matt Brown to share exactly how to make sure your client’s emails get into their customer’s inboxes. And how to use this skill to set yourself apart from all the other “I-just-write-copy” copywriters out there. It’s a master class for all members of The Copywriter Underground and you can join us if you visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu today. But do it today, because if you’re listening to this a few days after the podcast comes out, it will be too late. Having these skills, makes getting hired by high-paying clients easier. But you have to opt in to get the training. And with that, let’s go to our interview with Stephanie. Kira Hug: Let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a writer, CEO, and all the things that you're doing today? Stephanie Chandler: Yeah. I left the Silicon Valley back in 2003 and I opened a 2,800 square foot brick and mortar bookstore. in Sacramento, California, thinking I was going to write novels in the back office. Sounds like a really brilliant plan, right? But turns out I was a terrible fiction writer and I hated running retail store. And all I really wanted to do was be a writer. I just had known that my whole life and I didn't know how to make a living as a writer. So I actually started doing some copywriting and writing articles for local magazines and Long story short, I ended up selling that store and then I wrote my first book. I had an agent tell me, nobody knows who you are. You need to go build an audience. So I self-published the first book and then the next year I had an audience. I built a high traffic website and I got a book deal with Wiley and then I signed with an agent and sold a couple more books. Meanwhile, I had seen all these local authors with these poorly produced books. And I was speaking at writers conferences and nobody was really talking to those of us who write nonfiction. So in 2010, I launched the nonfiction writers conference completely online. And remember back then we weren't using zoom or Zen caster. We were dialing into a teleconference line for three days live. And, uh, I didn't know if people would come, but they did. And then each year they would say, how do we keep in touch when this is over? And so in 2013, the Nonfiction Authors Association was born from that. And I couldn't believe nobody was really talking to those of us who write nonfiction. And I saw a need and I filled it. And it was just really great luck to have found the path I feel like I was meant to be on. Rob Marsh: Yeah. I mean, seeing what you've accomplished since then in launching it. I mean, you have an event. I think you've got like, I don't know, 10, 15 books that you've written. You have done a ton in the space. It's amazing. You sort of have one of those writer careers where it's like, OK, well, if I can't write novels, I might as well have that career. So I'm jealous. I'm a little bit jealous of what you've accomplished. Stephanie Chandler: No, no, no. Don't be jealous. I mean, honestly, it was heartbreaking to realize I couldn't write fiction, right? I mean, imagine you guys had some propensity to want to write, right? And I just spent my entire life wishing I was a writer. And then you just kind of naturally think, well, I guess I should write fiction. And then you find out you're terrible at fiction. But you know what I love about nonfiction is that we get to teach. Yeah. Right. And so I'd always had a love for teaching. I actually set out, I thought I'd be an English teacher. And I did this U-turn and ended up in Silicon Valley in a soul sucking career. So it all worked out the way it was meant to. But yeah, follow the heart is where I'm at with that. Rob Marsh: I'm not yet ready to give up on my ideas for fiction, but I'm kind of there with you where writing nonfiction feels really good in a lot of ways. So before we even talk about all of the other stuff that you've done, maybe we can just take a couple of minutes and talk about the differences between fiction and nonfiction and why nonfiction might actually be a better fit for so many people, so many of us who actually want to write books. Stephanie Chandler: Yeah, especially in your copywriter community, right? Because I mean, nonfiction is true. It's real life. It's memoir. It's how-to books. It's history. It's science. It's medical books. It's all those things. Whereas fiction is fake. I always remember that as a kid. Fiction is fake. It's made up stories. And some people love it and are going to be great writers of it. But statistically, we actually sell more nonfiction every year than fiction, and a lot of people don't realize that. But when you tally up all the nonfiction genres, those outsell fiction every year. Kira Hug: And so when you say, I wasn't, I can't write fiction and like, how did you know? I mean, is it something where you're like, oh, I can just persevere and are there signs that we can pay attention to? Maybe there's signs I can pay attention to so I don't waste a ton of time. And I just realized this is never going to happen for me. Stephanie Chandler: I love this question. So when I had the bookstore, I immediately started a writer's group. And so we would all bring our, you know, little stories in each week. And mine were so bad. And I would hear everyone else's and think, that's pretty good. Oh, I like that one. Oh, and then I'd read mine and go, oh, this is awful. So I, and I knew just the process of writing it was really difficult. It was painful. Right. But when I started writing nonfiction, it flowed. It felt good. You know, like Rob said, it feels good to write something you're passionate about. And I would bet a lot of fiction authors feel the opposite, right? It flows for them when they write fiction and they don't have a desire to teach or want to dispel facts into a manuscript. So yeah, I think part of it was a knowing and just a feeling that it shouldn't be this hard. I could have taken classes and all the things, but it was hard. Rob Marsh: I took a couple of the classes. I still, I mean, I still struggle. I've got a couple of what I think are really good ideas for fiction books, you know, novels, thrillers, whatever. But when it comes to putting down the plot points and making it all work, that's where it comes apart for me. Whereas what I've written nonfiction seems to Yeah, flow better. But let's talk about that. Let's talk about writing a nonfiction book, because like you said, I think there are a lot of copywriters out there who would like to do this, not necessarily just to have written a book, but to help grow their business,