The Copywriter Club Podcast

Copywriter and founder of The Content Bistro, Prerna Malik joins Kira and Rob for the 74th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And we cover quite a bit of ground as we talk about... •  how she became a freelance content writer (thanks to a family illness) •  how she has grown her business despite living thousands of miles from her best clients •  why she’s only invests in training that delivers a real ROI •  the activities she spent time on to get her first several clients •  how she went from $21,000 in 2011 to $200,000+ this year •  how she thinks about the packages she offers (and how she prices them) •  how she splits duties with her business partner (and husband) •  what copywriters should be doing differently with social media •  how she schedules her week to get things done (the hacks and systems she uses) •  what she’ll be doing differently in 2018 •  the advice she would offer to a “just-starting-out” copywriter, and •  where she thinks copywriting will go in the future Note: Because Prerna lives in India, we weren’t able to use our usual recording software, so the sound has a few hiccups… we’re really sorry about that. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Content Bistro Art of Simple Launch Grow Joy Fearless Launching Mogul Mom AWAIhttp://www.awaionline.com/copywriting/p/ Mass Persuasion Method Copyhackers books 4-Hour Work Week Fully Loaded Launch Miers Briggs 7 Entrepreneurial Lessons Learned in Our 7th Year of Business Biz Bistro Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 74 as we talk with content specialist and copywriter Prerna Malik about creating high-performing content for clients like Amy Porterfield and Katrina Springer; what we need to know about social media copy; what she did to earn $200,000 in a single year; and what’s it like to work with your spouse every single day. Kira: Welcome, Prerna. Rob: Welcome, Prerna! Prerna: Hi! Thanks so much for having me here! Kira: It’s great to have you on the show, and a great place to start is with your story, and how did you end up running Content Bistro with your husband? Prerna: So, I blog; like a regular “mom” blog, it’s called The Mom Writes. And I started it in November of 2008 because I was a new mom. My daughter was nine months old, and while I love being with her, I also wanted something that was creatively stimulating and, you know, I used to read a lot of blogs when—you know—between feeding her and, you know, being with her and all that. So it just kind of started to so make sense to my sleep-deprived brain to, you know, start one! That blog...it started growing, and it led to me getting noticed by small businesses who then started reaching out and saying, you know, “Would you write for us?” That then led to things like social media gigs because, at that time I was super-active on Twitter. Now, I’m not so active, but yeah. I was super-active on Twitter, and then clients starting asking, “Okay, would you manage our social media for us”, you know? Especially Twitter. So I took a couple of courses to be sure that I knew what I was doing, and I started doing very part-time social media management and blogging for small businesses. And things were going okay, and I was you know, having a lot of fun; I was being able to stay at home with my daughter, and I had some creative work. And this was very part-time thing for me because my husband, Mayank, his full-time job was what was supporting us financially.

Wellness copywriter and online branding strategist Blair Badenhop recently made her way to our studio for episode 73 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We were excited to talk to Blair because we’ve had a ring-side seat as she’s launched her new podcast and built her soon-to-launch course. In this interview, we asked her: •  how Blair went from ad sales to non-profits to health coaching to copywriting •  whether writing in the health and wellness space is really different from writing for other niches •  how she helps her clients get clear on their positioning and branding with her discovery process •  why Blair takes three hours to get to know her clients BEFORE she starts to work •  what she did to create a steady flow of clients from the very start of her business •  how she got herself to the top of Google for her main key word •  the difference between “getting clients” and “making friends” •  her thoughts about what copywriters should do to stand out online •  the place red lipstick plays in her personal brand •  her experiments with Pinterest and Instagram to grow her list •  how other copywriters can use Instagram more effectively •  how she gets it all done—social media, client work, her own course, a podcast and more •  why she launched a podcast and the effect it’s had on her business We also asked, as we often do, about where she sees copywriting going in the coming months and why more people will start investing in it. It’s another info-packed episode. Please keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times... and have fun! Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: TCCinNYC Dress for Success Harper’s Bazaar Parsley Health Nitika Chopra Wellness Copywriter Blair on Instagram Blair on Pinterest Your Wellness Brand (coming soon) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 73 as we chat with freelance copywriter Blair Badenhop about her path into copywriting, writing for clients in the health and wellness niche, creating a podcast and a course to reach her audience, and developing a brand that stands out from other copywriters. Kira: Welcome, Blair! Rob: Hey Blair. Blair: Hey, thank you guys so much for having me! Kira: It’s great to have you here. So, Blair, let’s start with your story: how did you end up running your own business? Blair: Oh man. It has been such a crazy, winding road to this point. It’s kind of funny to look back on. So, the reason I started was kind of by accident. I wound up losing my last full-time job and I got a severance package that kind of tided me over for four months and so I was like, okay! What do I want to do with my life? And I’d been working in the marketing department over at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition for three years and before that I worked for a non-profit called Dress for Success managing partnerships, and before that, I worked in magazines, most well-known would be Harper’s Bazaar as a sales assistant, learning all about sales and marketing. So I had this kind of like, marketing background and I had a lot of knowledge to leverage but I was really interested in utilizing my health coaching certification because I had gotten it from the Institute for Integrative Nutrition a few years before, so I was kind of like, you know, torn between these two things that I loved, so I started consulting as a way to make money and then I started to build my health coaching practice. And you know,

Got legal questions? We do! So we invited attorney and online legal expert Danielle Liss to join us for the 72nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve had this episode penciled in on our list for a long time—partly because we know so many copywriters have big questions about legal issues (and often don’t have the cash to ask an attorney for help). Hopefully this podcast answers a few of those questions. We talked to Danielle about: •  how she went from working in construction law to helping online entrepreneurs with legal needs •  the legal documents all copywriters need to have in place (her checklist) •  what you need to know about choosing a business entity (in the U.S.) •  the critical reason you want to choose an entity besides sole proprietor •  what you need to know about contracts and why you should ALWAYS use them •  what every contract you sign MUST have •  should you include your contract with your proposal or keep them separate? •  what could happen if you work without a contract (the nightmare scenario) •  what you should do contract-wise on a second or third project with a client (think MSA) •  why you probably don’t need to worry about changes to your contract •  the three things you need to include in your website terms and conditions We also talked about what you should expect to pay for legal help and Danielle gave us the lowdown on copyrights—yes, copyright, not copywrite ; ) . She also gives a bit of counsel about when you can use ™, ®, or a service mark, and how to handle conflicts and breaches of contracts. This episode is loaded with need-to-know information that will help you protect your copywriting business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: TCC IRL Dubsado FitFluencial LegalZoom USPTO website Hashtag-legal.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira:What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 72 as we chat with attorney, marketing expert, and co-founder of Hashtag Legal, Danielle Liss, about what copywriters need to know when it comes to the law, choosing the right business entity, documents we need to protect ourselves, and avoiding the common mistakes online business owners make again and again. Kira: Welcome, Danielle! Rob: Hey Danielle. Danielle: Thank you so much for having me, I’m really excited to be here. Kira: Yeah, we’re excited to have you, and, we—we just need this conversation desperately! Even as I’m listening to the intro, I’m like, I need to know all of this! So, I’m really looking forward to it. Rob: It’s funny that it’s taken this long to get here too… Kira: I know! Rob: …because when we first started the podcast, we made a list of everybody we wanted to talk to, and one of the line items was an attorney. We wanted to talk to an attorney, and yeah. Now we’re seventy-two episodes in... Kira: Right! Rob: So it’s about time. Danielle: Well I am very glad to be the one to talk with everybody. Kira: Yes, great. So why don’t we start with your story, and I’m really curious how you ended up working in influencer marketing and ultimately creating Hashtag Legal. Danielle: Absolutely. When I graduated from law school, I went into litigation. And I live in Las Vegas, and I did a lot of construction law. Let’s just say that’s not exactly how my brain works. So, it was never a great fit because I just didn’t have the passion that I needed to spend all day fighting about drywall. And... Kira: Laughs. Danielle: And there are people who do; I love them for it,...

Copywriter and hypnotist Jesse Gernigin joins The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk with Kira and Rob about his freelance business, creating an online summit, and how knowing how to hypnotize people helps him know how to attract customers and sell more products. In this interview, we talk about: •  how Jesse went from magician to hypnotist to copywriter •  what it takes to bee a hypnotist •  the #1 thing he did that made him a successful hypnotist •  what he sent potential clients when he was cold contacting •  how often he succeeded (and failed) when he was cold emailing and how he increased his chances of success •  how Jesse works with clients to get them what they need (not just what they want) •  what he did on Upwork to succeed •  acting as a strategist in addition to working as a copywriter •  what it takes to assemble an online summit and what has surprised him the most from putting on a summit And while talking about his summit, Jesse let us in on the tools he used to get his summit online and we asked him about the two best speakers he included in his summit. Finally Jesse told us what he thinks will happen to copywriting in the future. To get this one... click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Geoff Ronning The Ultimate Sales Letter by Dan Kennedy Vander Meide Ramit Sethi Chase Jarvis Paige Poutiainen Danny Marguiles Joanna Wiebe Thrive Architect Rainmaker Wordpress ConvertKit Teachable Vimeo Natalie McGuire Lianna Patch Hillary Weiss Entrepreneur on Fire Live Gold Rich Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 71 as we chat with copywriter, marketing consultant, and hypnotist Jesse Gernigin about trading his magic act for high paying copywriting gigs, how he finds and lands freelance clients, what goes on behind the scenes of an online summit, and how hypnotism helps him become a better copywriter! Kira: Welcome, Jesse! Jesse: Thank you guys so much for having me! It’s great to be here. Rob: It’s great to have you. Jesse: Yeah, it’s cool to talk with you guys on this end after having you both on my summit, so this is great! Kira: Yeah! So we’re going to talk about your summit in a bit; you’re a first hypnotist on the show! Jesse: Okay! Yeah. Rob: Yeah, we’re waiting for you to say something like “look into my eyes”—follow the watch... Kira: (laughs) Jesse: (laughs) Kira: I’m actually a little nervous now! I feel like you might hypnotize us and make us say something ridiculous. I don’t know. Jesse: No, no, no. (laughs) Kira: All right, Jesse, a good place to start is just with your story. You know, who are you? How did you get into copywriting? Especially with the magic background? Tell us a little more about your story. Jesse: Oh, this is funny. So we’re going to go back to the days of copywriting books—Dan Kennedy’s, I think 1993 book—The Ultimate Sales Letter. So, I graduated college in 2007, so I came out right at the heart of the recession, and nobody was hiring for anything I had a degree in. And I’d been a magician and a hypnotist, and I’d work, you know, shows and make five or six thousand dollars a year just doing it on the side. And my buddy told me, you should just do this full time until a job opens up! So I went out, found an agent, and I was a really great performer. I don’t like to toot my own horn, because I wasn’t necessarily more talented than anybody else,

Agora Financial Copy Chief (and copywriter) Joe Schriefer is our guest for the 70th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob ask him all about what it’s like to work for Agora, how he landed his job there, how Agora’s writers are paid and a lot more. Specifically we cover: •  how he “lucked” into a job he didn’t want with Agora •  the best advice anyone ever gave him at Agora (and why he became a copywriter) •  his process for finding ideas for promotions •  how he knows when an idea is “big enough” to go with •  how much time he spends researching versus writing •  why he doesn’t ask his customers for ideas for his copy •  his 7 step-by-step system for creating a brilliant sales letter •  the most important question a copywriter should ask (but they never do) •  how Agora Financial compensates their copywriters (they can make millions) •  the three things he looks for when he hires a writer to work for Agora •  how often Agora’s best copywriters write a successful package—it’s less than 50% •  what his team does when a promotion underperforms •  how quickly Agora is growing and why Joe needs more copywriters There’s a lot of solid advice in this one. Do. Not. Miss. It. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: The Copywriter Club IRL Agora Financial Name Bank Bill Bonner Addison Wiggin Byron King Wayne Gretzky Block Chain Win Bigly by Scott Adams Top Gun Joe’s email: jschriefer@agorafinancial.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: Hey everybody. Before we get into today’s podcast, we just want to tell you about our event that’s being held in New York City on February 15th and 16th, and we want to make sure that you have the opportunity to join us for this awesome, fun party. Kira, let’s talk a little bit about what’s going on at TCC In Real Life. Kira: So, we’re basically taking the podcast, and a lot of people that we interviewed on the podcast, and then we’re putting them all in a room—seventy-five people—and an amazing of line-up of top copywriters like Kim Krause Schwalm, Joanna Wiebe, Ry Schwartz, Laura Belgray, Brian Kurtz, Kevin Rogers, I can go on and on and on. You can find their names and the list of speakers on the event page, which Rob will give you. But I’ve never been in a room with all of these copywriters, online marketers before. And, beyond that, we’re covering these three pillars of copywriters: what it really takes from going from a copywriter who takes orders from clients, to going to a really great consultant who knows how to run a business. So the topics are diverse, but they’re covering basically the three pillars: the offer, the list, and the marketing strategy. Rob: Yeah, this is a copywriting conference, but it’s not the typical stuff that you read about copywriting, you know: “ten new ideas for headlines that pull”, those kinds of things. The people who are speaking have incredible information to share so, Kim Krause Schwalm, for instance is going to be talking about the way that she’s beat the controls that she’s run for companies like Agora and Boardroom; real-life lessons that going to be immediately applicable to the type of writing that we all do everyday. And Jason Henderson, who’s an expert at marketing acquisition and email, the topic of his speech is, three email copywriting secrets I discovered helping porn stars get tan in 1994. Like, you’re not going to find that kind of stuff anywhere else at any marketing conference, but the takeaways are real, it’s the stuff that we can use in our businesses everyday. And really, for me, it’s a huge part of why I’m excited to be there. Kira: And beyond the content, right—like new content our presenters are bringing in, new presentations they’ve never shared before—beyond that piece,

Copywriter, marketing strategist, and CMO-for-Hire, Myrna Begnel joins us for our second episode of the week (our 69th overall) to talk about her copywriting business and how she became known as “the client whisperer” among the members of The Copywriter Think Tank. In this episode we cover: •  how Myrna went from selling elevators to agency strategist to writing copy •  what she learned from her career in sales that applies to copywriting •  how you create a relationship with a client so your projects succeed •  how to recreate the “sales conversation” on your sales page •  the questions she asks to understand her client’s customer needs •  what a discovery call with her looks like •  how her processes help her repeat and scale her business •  the “grandma’s house” approach to setting boundaries with clients •  how to get started with processes, then how to improve them •  the lessons she has taken from working with agencies inside and out •  what it’s like to completely start over in business •  why it’s important to focus on mindset and not just skillset We also asked Myrna about what her projects look like as a “CMO for hire” and how she packages her services, and charges a high price for them. Say this next line in your best stadium music voice: “Are you ready for this?” Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: The Copywriter Club IRL Doberman Dan Amy Porterfield Artessa Marketing Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 69 as we chat with copywriter and marketing consultant Myrna Begnel managing clients so they want to keep working with you, what we can learn from the agency world, how she has structured her business and her time to get more done, and what it’s like to start over after building a business with others. Kira: Welcome, Myrna! Rob: Hey, Myrna! Myrna: Hey, guys! Thanks for having me! Kira: Or should we call you Kitty? Myrna: Kitty! Yes. You can always call me Kitty. Rob: I'm not sure why I can't get over that. It's like, to me, you're Myrna, and to Kira, you're Kitty! I guess we're just going to have to live with that. Kira: You know what, though? It fell apart, so Myrna joined our think-tank and I was trying to stick with Kitty and now you have become Myrna and I can't go back to Kitty, so... I'm sticking with Myrna. Myrna: I know. You know, my high school friends all call me Myrna B. My maiden name was actually Beals, but... as if there are other Myrna's, you know... Myrna A, Myrna Z... Rob: (laughs) Yeah, we have to make sure we don't get you confused with Myrna D and Myrna J. Myrna: Yeah, exactly. When you have a unique name like mine, you know, you kind of got to overcome it. Rob: I love it. Kira: So, Myrna, let's start with your story! How did you end up here, and I'm pointing at the spot where you're sitting right now. Myrna: (laughs) Well, it's kind of a convoluted story because I come into copywriting, a lot of the people that I know, they've always known they wanted to be a copywriter, they've had a very direct path into owning their own business and being a copywriter, and I think I come from a very convoluted path just based on my history. Probably my third career. So I started off selling elevators and escalators right out of college and I did that for 6 years. I was the first female sales manager in the company's 150-year history. One of the things that—you know, I'm starting to date myself—we didn't have digital back then...

Copywriter and calligrapher Ashlyn Carter joins Kira and Rob for the In 68th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and wow, does she deliver. In just a couple of years, she's built a six-figure business that is growing like crazy. In this interview, she shares: •  how she went from agency consultant to PR publicist to freelance writer •  what she learned from working with companies like Delta Airlines and Chick-Fil-A •  the difference between working with corporate brands and personal brands •  her struggle to do everything right, the repercussions, and how it led to the work she does today •  the process she used to break away from the negative behaviors that tied her down •  what happened when she chose a niche and had to fire some of her clients •  how she had to adapt new processes as a business owner (as opposed to being a freelancer) •  when she knew it was time to create a digital product •  the questions she asks to keep her team focused on getting things done •  how she organizes her time to get more done •  her onboarding “magazine” that sets boundaries and outlines processes And as we often do, we also asked about a couple of her non-copywriting hobbies. She sold us why she does calligraphy in addition to working as a copywriter, and the lessons she learned from dancing that have made her a better copywriter. To hear Ashlyn tell it, click the play button below. Or scroll down to read the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Toggl PowerSheets Strengths Finder Rest by Alex Pang Jenna Kutcher James Wedmore Todd Herman's 90 Day Year HoneyBook Amy Porterfield Anne Lamott Chuck Close Malcolm Gladwell AshlynWrites.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join us episode 68 as we chat with copywriter Ashlyn Carter about what she learned managing crisis communications for brands like Delta and Chick-Fil-A, how choosing a niche has affected her business, the process she used to break her own negative behaviors, and how dancing has made her a better copywriter. Rob: Ashlyn, welcome! Ashlyn: Thank you so much! So excited to get to talk to y’all today. Rob: We’re excited to have you! Kira: I know, I know! All right, so, Ashlyn, I think a good place to start is with your story, of course, and how you ended up getting into copywriting! Ashlyn: Yes, so it turns out that if you chronologically file magazines under your bed growing up, you’re a shoe-in for a journalism major, so I went into college, like, no doubt what I wanted to be. I wanted to work in magazines. I wanted to do editorial stuff. So I was a print major in the journalism school in 2009, which, I’m sure all of us who work in this industry—that was a tough year for publications. So I promptly went back from my senior year, switched to the publications track, and knew that that’s what I wanted to do. Right out of college, I worked as a traveling consultant for a women’s organization. I worked the ultimate dream of working in—I grew up in Alabama so the big city of Atlanta is where I wanted to be—I wanted to work an agency life in Atlanta, so I did that! And was in agency for about four years all together and worked as a publicist as well for a chef and his slew of restaurants and then I moved on to working on my own! There are a lot of ups and downs and valleys but that, in a nutshell, is what happened.

For the 67th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob sit down with copywriter and content specialist, Emma Siemasko to talk about her business, working with clients, and the advice she would give to someone just starting out as a copywriter. During our conversation we covered: •  how a trip to South Korea launched her freelance writing career •  Emma’s and Rob’s favorite poets—yeah, this one is a little different •  what she learned working at a bad content marketing agency •  the things she learned from starting her own business •  what she did in those first few moments as a freelancer •  how she landed her first few clients after going out on her own •  her advice to copywriters who are just starting out •  the mistakes she made in her first year that cost her a lot of time and energy •  the boundaries she has set up to keep her client relationships working well •  how her clients have reacted to the boundaries she set This isn’t the first time we’ve talked with Emma about boundaries—she’s really got this down. We also talked about how she packages case studies and sells them to her clients and the opportunities she sees in the future for copywriters. To hear this one, just click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Mary Oliver Sharron Olds Mira Gonzalas Billy Collins Another Reason I Don’t Keep a Gun in the House On Turning Ten OKCupid Frog2Prince.net Grasshopper Joanna Wiebe Maggie Patterson Roy Furr Stories by Emma The Worst Company I Ever Worked For Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join us episode 67 as we chat with freelance copywriter and content creator Emma Siemasko about her decision to go out on her own, working with clients and setting clear boundaries, writing in the tech space and what she’ll be doing differently in the new year. Kira: Welcome, Emma! Rob: Hey Emma! Emma: Hi Rob and Kira, thanks for having me! Rob: We are thrilled to have you. Kira: (laughs) All right, Emma, a great place to start is, of course, with your story. So, how did you end up as a content writer and then business owner? Emma: Sure! So I have been writing in some capacity basically since I could read, so when I was in first grade, I was writing. Like, I wrote a story about how my grandmother died, which I got a lot of attention on because most six year olds weren’t writing about that... so I was doing some pretty heavy stuff as a little kid... but I went on to study creative writing in college where I specialized in poetry, and after I graduated I actually went and taught English in South Korea for one year. And the funny thing about that was, I was hired to teach, which I did a lot of, but the school where I worked also published their own English language textbooks and I quickly began doing most of the writing and virtually all of the editing for the textbooks because my boss recognized like, whoa, she’s like the best writer that we have, not to be totally braggy, but, so I actually kind of got my first taste of professional writing in South Korea, funnily enough. And when I came back, I worked for a content marketing agency for a little while. I started my own online dating consultancy and then I worked for about three years at a software as a service company and that’s how I got introduced to the tech space. And the company was acquired and I was like, I don’t really want to work for anybody else—I’d been hiring a lot of freelancers when I worked in-house, so I was like,

Copy Chief (and copywriter) Henry Bingaman is in the studio for the 66th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And he showed up with plenty to share—including his formula for writing great sales copy. Kira and Rob took the opportunity to ask Henry about: •  his path from fiction writer and flight attendant to copywriter and copy chief •  not wanting to write for clients and creating his own product (and the lessons he learned) •  how he landed his first client (and learned to write his first proposal) •  the critical copywriting skill he learned as a flight attendant •  what he does to connect with people at conferences •  when you should feel like you’ve “made it” (hint: you’re probably not there yet) •  what he teaches the copywriters he works with (and his role as copy chief) •  how he writes leads that catch attention and shift a customer’s paradigm •  the various copy blocks he includes in his sales pages •  what he learned from breaking down Jedd Canty’s sales pages •  what it takes to create a winning control •  the collaboration process he goes through on every sales promotion •  what separates the great copywriters from the good •  learning from failure (and some of his biggest failures) Plus we talked about where Henry thinks copywriting is going in the future (it doesn’t look good for some freelancers), how his Cross Fit habit is related to copywriting, and what he is doing to improve his own writing. You won’t want to miss this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: AWAI Six Figure Copywriter Creative Writer’s Desk Wealthy Web Writer Rebecca Matter John Carlton Marcella Allison Boardroom Agora Parris Lampropolous David Deutch Mark Stockman Metabolic Living Jake Hoffberg Copy Chief Jedd Canty Clayton Makepeace Metabolic Renewal Scrivener Money Map Press Brian Kurtz Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 66 as we chat with creative director and copy chief Henry Bingaman on working and writing in direct response, how much effort it takes to get a winning control, persuasion architecture, and applying systems thinking to the feedback process and how Crossfit makes him a better writer. Kira: Welcome, Henry! Henry: Hey! Nice to be here. Rob: Hey, we’re glad to have you. Kira: Yeah, so Henry, a great place to start is with your path. I know you have a squiggly path, so where did you start? And where are you today? Henry: My kind of life path is just following the next interesting thing in front of me. (laughs) So, when I graduated in 2007 with a degree in fiction writing, which isn’t really a good degree for a job (laughs)... When I graduated, I went online and there was a job opening for flight attendants at United Airline. So I applied and started flying professionally for about a year. I was an international flight attendant, which was a lot of fun but it paid about $20,000 a year, and I was working up in First Class serving people that paid $20,000 for their seat, so I was a little jealous maybe? (laughs) But I had this writing ability. I’d been writing since I was early high school, just stories and whatnot. My dad actually owned a supplement company when I was growing up. He’d bought the AWAI six figure program at one point and he just gave it to me, he never really did anything with it, so he gave it to me and said, “Here, here’s a way you might be able to make money.” So that’s how I kind of discovered copywriting,

In this jam-packed 65th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with author and ghostwriter Laura Hanly about book writing and publishing. We met Laura a few months ago and after grilling her over breakfast, knew she’d be a great addition to the show. In this discussion we cover: •  how she became a book writer and publishing consultant •  what you need to think about before you write your book •  Laura’s thoughts on who exactly needs to have a book—if you are in a commodified service business, the answer is “yes” •  who needs to be on your book writing team and who should be your early readers •  what a realistic timeline for writing a book looks like •  price ranges and what she does to charge $40,000 per book project •  what you need to do to promote your book •  common mistakes writers make when they write their book •  the differences between self publishing and traditional publishing •  how to publish with Amazon Create Space and KDP •  the design options to consider when you’re ready to publish your book •  how to find clients as a ghost writer of books •  whether you should get a byline with the books you ghost write •  the mistakes she sees over and over on book projects We also asked about the rates she charged when she first started out (they were way too low), the mistakes businesses make when they “do” content marketing, who is doing content well today, and what to keep in mind when promoting your content. Ready for this? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Telling Your Brand Story (Rob’s book) The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (Mark Manson’s rudely titled book) The Martian (Andy Weir’s book) Gary V Ramit Sethi Digital Marketer CreateSpace 99designs Laurahanly.com Content that Converts Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 65 as we chat with author and book consultant Laura Hanly about the process of writing a good book, how to choose between self-publishing and a formal publisher, what it takes to write a bestseller, and the tactics, strategies, and systems for promoting your content. Kira: Welcome, Laura! Rob: Welcome! Laura: Thank you so much! Very exciting to chat with you guys. Rob: I want to jump in and just say that we met at a mastermind event, and you and I, I think, had the opportunity to sit down at breakfast and for about 45 minutes or so, you sort of walked me through a lot of the process of writing a book and as we were chatting, it was one of those things where like, “Laura, we got to have you on the podcast!” Because there are a lot of people who listen to us that need to know the things that you know! So we are really excited to have you here. Laura: Yeah, I think it’s a big opportunity for a lot of people at the moment so I’m excited to talk about it. Rob: Cool! Well, why don’t we start with your story? Where did you come from; how did you start doing what you’re doing? Laura: So, I grew up in Sydney in Australia. I studied writing and publishing at university and worked at a big publishing house there in Australia for a few years. And I think about 2011, the industry really started downsizing and they weren’t kind of learning the lessons that we had all seen go down in the music industry in terms of, you know, adapting to the new technologies that were becoming available, and I thought, mmmm, I really need to get myself organized and become a bit more independent. So I moved online,