The Copywriter Club Podcast

Our guest for the 308th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Kristin Lajeunesse. Kristin is an author and former digital nomad who has traveled to all 50 states in the U.S. and 21 countries on a mission to find delicious vegan food along the way. Her travels led her to copywriting and over the last couple of years, she’s built a thriving business. Here’s how her story goes: Kristin’s 3 lives and how they led her top copywriting. Starting a business on Fiverr before hiring a sales consultant. Landing large clients with employees vs solopreneur clients. What it’s like to work with a sales consultant – how does it fit into the budget? Are you doing the same amount of work for less money? The best tool you can use on a sales call. How to turn your sales call into an organic conversation rather than an interrogation. How much do we really need to do to ensure a high-quality customer experience? The two best investments Kristin has made in her business. How she manages her small team and hires subcontractors to support her business. How she pays her subcontractors. Her process for being the main point of contact and delegating to subcontractors. What it’s like to write for businesses that may take a toll on your mental state – what should you consider? Balancing being a highly sensitive entrepreneur and setting boundaries. Why she chose the van life? The best destination for digital nomads. What it’s like to write a book for a traditional publisher. Setting up a book tour and finding sponsors. Hit play or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Kristin's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 81  Episode 137 Episode 305 The TCC Shop  Full Transcript:

Jenn Prochaska is our guest on the 307th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jenn is a copywriter who specializes in message strategy and websites. This episode is truly an inspiring journey as we hear how Jenn has navigated her way through addiction, motherhood, and scaling a thriving business. This episode will leave you with wisdom, practical business advice, and even a email marketing strategy… Here’s how the episode goes: Jenn’s 25 year background in sales and marketing and why she went from LA back to Cleveland. The journey to getting sober and realizing the “cushy” job didn’t bring happiness. Going back to school to get a Masters in creative writing and rediscovering old passions. Making big changes in adulthood and investing in yourself. Working for agencies, being a lead copywriter, and diving into freelance copywriting. How tires helped her learn about educating an audience, urging them to care, and how to incorporate benefits. Why is addiction misunderstood? Doing better vs. doing different – is there a difference? Jenn’s systems and processes to make hard decisions and being a successful integrator. Being a good parent vs being a good business owner? The aha advice Jenn got from Rob about writing expectations. Getting permission to shut Shirley up (who the heck is Shirley?) Mapping out workflows and finding holes in your process. How Jenn created her unique framework and niched her business. How Jenn’s support, community, and mentors have helped silence her limiting beliefs and strengthened her mindset. Jenn’s morning routine as a parent and business owner. Communication and boundaries – and how it helps Jenn become a better entrepreneur. The power of the Think Tank community. Jenn’s FORTY-week drip sequence? How did she do it? Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Jenn's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 82 Episode 270 Episode 301 Erin's website Juliet's website   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Life is messy. Sometimes life is really messy. And it can take a while, sometimes even years or decades to figure things out. And as we've interviewed copywriters on this podcast, many of them have described long winding, sometimes really messy pathways that they followed to get to where they are today. Today's guest on the Copywriter Club podcast has a path like that. Jenn Prochaska shared how she went from LA's music scene to a somewhat more sedate and fulfilling role as a mom copywriter and brand strategist, and how it took more than a decade to figure it all out. We talked about a lot of things in this episode. Everything from addiction to creating and scaling a business that fits the life you want to mindset and a lot more. We think you're going to like it. You're also going to hear a lot of voices in this episode. That's because Kira interviewed Jenn while I was on vacation. And invited copywriter, Erin Pennings, to join her to ask questions. So, you're going to hear Erin, you're going to hear Kira. And now as we're recording a few additional comments to go along with this interview, Kira's on vacation and I've invited copywriter, Juliet Peay, to join me to share her thoughts. Juliet, thanks for your help. Welcome to the podcast. Juliet Peay:  Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to jump in and hope Kira is having a blast. She deserves it. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. She definitely deserves it. I mean, we should all take more vacation, I think. So, this is fun. Before we get to our interview with Jenn, we just want to make you aware of a new copywriting business training available from the Copywriter Club and Jamie Jensen. We mentioned this a week or two ago on the podcast. The first program that we are presenting from Jamie is called Create Your Six-Figure Copywriting Business. And if you're tempted to join the copywriter accelerator, but you held off because maybe the timing wasn't right or something else got in the way, this might be a fit for you. So, check it out at thecopywriterclub.com/learn, and that will take you directly to that page. Juliet Peay:  Okay. Let's get into the interview with Jenn Prochaska. Jenn Prochaska:  So, I have been in sales and marketing, traditional sales and marketing for 25 years, which if you do the math, I was here before Google. I was here shortly after Yahoo. There was still AOL. And I worked in the music business out in Los Angeles for about four years after school, after college. And came back to Cleveland. Stayed in the music business, doing a variety of things. And then ended up as an account manager for a digital marketing agency and had a really great experience. Learned so much about websites and the online world and all of that good stuff. And then in 2006, I got sober. And I'll go into a little bit more detail here. So, I had to call, as part of my 12-step recovery, I had to call somebody every day. So, I would call on the way home from work. And about six months in, she's like, "All you do is complain about your job. Is this really what you want to be doing?" And it was like, silence. Oh, I didn't realize that I was doing that. And because I was making really good money. I had big-name, NFL, NHL clients, all that good stuff. And I was like, "Oh, I'm not sure." Meanwhile, I had another conversation with somebody on a Saturday afternoon as I'm sitting in my apartment. And I'm like, "I don't know what to do. I'm really bored." I didn't have any hobbies. All I did was work and drink. And she was like, "Well, what do you like to do?" And I'm like, "I don't know. Drink." And she's like, "Okay. Well, now that you're not drinking, why don't you make a list?" And at the very top of that list was writing and reading. And I was like, "You know what? I really liked that." So, through a process of about a year, I took a creative writing course at a community college and fell in love with that. Did some soul-searching, did some research. And about a year later, I quit my well-to-do job. And I went back to get a degree in creative writing, much to my mother's dismay. She was like, "You're going to what?" I mean, because I'm 32 years old at this point. And I was like, "I'm going to be a writer." And she was like, "Oh, oh, oh, okay, okay." And I did, and it was great. And I got my master's in creative writing, which doesn't mean much except that I got to leave the world for a little while and explore something that I had gotten away from. When I got out of school, I had to earn a living. And I discovered copywriting and content writing and all that. So, I got hooked up with a personal agency, The Creative Group. I think they're owned by Robert Half International now. It's a temporary agency that hires creative people and then places them in various places. So, I worked at the Cleveland clinic and got some fantastic experience there. Great marketing group of people. And then got hired in-house as a copywriter team lead. Worked in-house for a little while. Well, for a long while, actually. Six, seven years writing about tires, which is actually a lot more fun than that sounds. And I went to a shopper marketing agency for a little bit. And they fired me because it was a super toxic environment. That's a long story short. We'll leave it at that. And I was three months pregnant. And I said to my husband, I was like, "I've been wanting to do this freelance writing thing." And I think the universe just gave me a huge shove out the door to try it. And he fully supported that. I found this podcast by a group called The Copywriter Club. And then I found the Facebook group called The Copywriter Club and truly, TCC kicked off my freelance career four years ago. I knew how to write. And I knew some, obviously, and I knew some best practices, and I had all this marketing and sales experience, but I didn't know things like conversion copywriting existed. I was executing on that, not knowing. I didn't know that you could be a launch copywriter or all these different kinds of writers. And so, as opportunities would come, I would sell myself. "Hey, do you do this kind of writing?" "Yes, yes, I do." And then I would come to the Facebook group and I would say, "Oh my god, I just sold this. I don't know how to do this." And your community would, and this is a free Facebook group. And your community would give me direction, and it snowballed. And here I am today. That's a super long story, but that's how I got to where I am today. Erin Pennings:  There's so much that you say that I can relate to. So, I want to know more about writing about tires. Of all the amazing things that you just dropped, I have questions about writing about tires and what that looked like. And I mean, it's an important stepping stone in getting you to this point. Jenn Prochaska:  I love that that's what you pulled out of that entire story. I love that. This is amazing. It's awesome. So, I wrote for a fantastic company called Dealer Tire, and they sell tires solely through the dealer chain. That's their market; that's their niche. They support dealers. What I loved about writing about them is that, first of all, the general population, they don't know about tires. I didn't know about tires. I had no idea. They don't care either and they're ridiculously expensive. So, to be able to educate people on one, why you need to care. Two, why they're so expensive and the benefit to you. We talk a lot in copywriting about features and benefits. I mean, this was really benefits oriented, and then why you should go to your dealer to get them on. And there's such a commodity,

On the 306th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Jamie Jensen makes her second appearance on the show. Jamie is a copywriter, screenwriter, creative coach and some-day showrunner. Jamie’s many lives have led her to her absolute passion of screenwriting and helping other multi-passionate creatives discover how to balance it all. Here’s how the conversation went: What’s the difference between hitting a wall and burnout? Walking away from something that’s going well? How to create a step by step process for what comes next. Why you need to give yourself permission to be messy. The balance between business person and artist. What goes into the screenwriting process? The importance of allowing yourself to be bad at your craft. The shift in the screenwriting industry – what have been the effects of streaming? What goes into Jamie’s writing process? Why you should treat your projects like relationships – projects as people? What are work retreats all about? What’s a pilot vs a screenplay? How to get into screenwriting. How to get a lot done in a short amount of time. What is it like to work with an editor? How does it help improve the writing process? Dabbling into new projects and passions… How do we balance it all.Read the transcript below or hit that play button. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the Accelerator  Join the Flip the Switch Workshop The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Jamie's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 62   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  This is the 306th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And if you've been here since the beginning, you've certainly noticed some themes that tend to recur as we've interviewed nearly 300 copywriters. Obviously, we like to ask about things like prospecting and sales calls teams, and all the things that copywriters do in their business so that you can borrow or steal an idea or two to use in your own businesses. So it's a little surprising when we stumble across a topic that we've never addressed before. And today's guest on the podcast is copywriter, screenwriter, creative coach, and someday showrunner, Jamie Jensen. When we invited Jamie to the show, we thought we'd be talking more about the changes that she's made in her business since we interviewed her a few years ago, but we discovered something that we've really never talked about before on the show. And so while today's episode does address Jamie's business and how it's evolved, it's also a primer on writing for TV and cinema. Kira Hug:  But before we get to Jamie's interview, we just want to share a final announcement that today is the last day to join the Copywriter Accelerator Program before we shut the doors and kick off this program this September. So if you have any interest in building your business, so you have consistent income processes that help you feel really confident about what you're doing. So it's easier to sell what you're doing. This is a great program. A lot of the conversation today with Jamie is about creative pursuits in writing. And I think most of us have some creative ideas that we're inspired to work on, but it's tricky to do that if we don't have a business that's running and providing consistent revenue. So we're not stressing over paying our bills and stressing about where our business is going to go. And so the Accelerator Program is actually a really nice fit for people who just need a workable business. That feels really good to them and is something they could depend on so that they can pursue those projects, whether it's writing or something else and shape their life around, or I guess, shape the business around their life rather than vice versa. So today's the last day we hope we can work with you. If you have any interests, you can find out more information in the show notes. Rob Marsh:  And like you were saying, Kira, if you've struggled at all with your business over the last year, if things just don't feel quite right, or you feel they could be running smoother, this is the time to go through the Accelerator and get it all set up, so that January 1st you're ready to rock and roll for the new year. So I know we're still a ways away from thinking about the new year, but it's not that far away. And if people want their businesses to work the right way, they should definitely check out thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Okay. Let's hear about how Jamie has transitioned her business since the last time that we talked on the podcast. So Jamie catches up. It has been a long time. So he is talking on the podcast since we saw you in San Diego on stage at IRL. Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. We went in a time machine called COVID-19. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Seriously. What has been going on in your life and your business? Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. Thank you. So many things. I made a decision late last year and just to ground us in time, we're in August 2022 now. And so late 2021, probably around October, I made a decision to burn everything down in my business. And the irony of this is that that's the second time in my eight, nine years in business that I have done something like that. But this was a more... I'm going to just speak in my truth and not worry so much about whether the languaging I use makes sense. I'll just let you ask me questions if it doesn't, but there was just a truth in my body where I felt I hit this brick wall and so much of what I had been building and working on just felt like a no. Rob Marsh:  So, yeah. Let's talk about that because, I mean, there's burnout where you're tired or you struggle, but usually, it doesn't feel like everything is a no. Jamie Jensen:  Yup. Rob Marsh:  A total 180 do over tear-it-all-down. Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. Rob Marsh:  I mean because you've done. You've had both. Jamie Jensen:  Yes. Rob Marsh:  You've been burned out before and not torn everything. Jamie Jensen:  Totally. Absolutely. Rob Marsh:  What was the difference? Jamie Jensen:  Well, the difference here was that I could feel that there was one thing in my business that felt true for me. It felt like, "I love doing this, I could do this forever." It was the one offer I was holding that I most loved. I was most excited to show up and that I felt I could do endlessly forever and I never got tired of it. And everything else felt like I was pumping from a place of emptiness to go through with it, even though it was really smart. And even though it was valuable and it was offering value to folks, it was just something that in me, when I got up to try to do marketing for it, or when I got up to try to create content for it, I kept hitting a wall. And it wasn't for lack of anything that I had built not working. It certainly wasn't at the scale that I had dreamt it would be, but I hadn't really gotten to that spot yet. Specifically, I'm talking about a program called Create Your 6-Figure Copywriting Business, which I had been working on at the time for a year and a half-ish. And I loved the program. I loved the clients. I loved the content. I loved everything that it had to offer. And it was something that I had probably put the most of myself into in terms of what I was offering in my business. And I believed in it. But there was just something about it that felt like a no for me to continue offering it in the way that I wasn't to try to build something to scale on the foundation of that offer. It just was not, there was something in it that was like, "I love these humans who are showing up for this. I love the results they're getting. And this just feels like a no. And a lot of the other products that I had created around copywriting no longer felt true for me." And the way that I describe that is it wasn't just burnout. It was this coming to a place of truth and honestly, deeply feeling the grief of that, it wasn't like, "Oh, I made this decision," and then it was just easy. I was really sad. I really had to grieve it. It's like that it was just what was true. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. I mean, as I hear you talk about this too, I can think of other people I know who have done something similar, but usually, they're just like, "Oh, I don't love the work," or like, "What I'm doing is crap," and that is not what you're saying, because the stuff that you created is, I mean, it's awesome. Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. Rob Marsh:  I've seen the stuff that you were selling. Jamie Jensen:  I know. Rob Marsh:  It is really good. And when you had your agency, which I think we talked about last time you were on the podcast. Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. Rob Marsh:  Your agency was really good, right? Jamie Jensen:  Thanks. Rob Marsh:  So how do you walk away from something that's good, but not right as opposed to- Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. Rob Marsh:  ... "This just doesn't, it's not good, and it's easy to walk away." Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. Rob Marsh:  Talk about that. I mean, I guess it's grieving, right? Jamie Jensen:  Yeah. It is. Yeah. It's a grieving process. I think for me, how do you walk away from it? You just create a plan, a step-by-step short plan that goes, I've said this to a lot of clients, because I tend to work with a lot of folks who are in transition or wanting to pivot. And ironically, ever since I shut my agency down, I've had a lot of clients that I've coached around the process of transition and pivoting. Rob Marsh:  Uh-huh. Jamie Jensen:  And the thing that I'll say about it is, I think that you have to set realistic expectations for a transition and create a step-by-step plan for how you want to handle that. I terminated a lot of client agreements, contracts, and relationships for a period of time to really create space, to discover what wanted to come next.

Our guest for the 305th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is sustainable and cruelty-free copywriter, Topaz Hooper. Topaz focuses on working with eco-friendly brands whose values align with her own. The slow fashion, environmentally conscious niche is growing rapidly, and Topaz spills all the details for those who are keen to join in on the movement to help the planet. Here’s how the conversation goes: How Topaz became a vegetarian and transitioned to veganism. Her beginning in the vegan coaching industry and how it was the catalyst for her copywriting career. What are the benefits of going vegan? Is Rob going to give it a go? How she tuned into her audience's needs and wants, so she could speak directly to them and shape their transformation. What mistakes copywriters are making in their sales copy – and how to fix it. How can you get paid to make mistakes? How she quickly became known as the cruelty free copywriter in 2022 and scaled her income to $10k months. Her method for working less hours, earning more, and achieving what she’s only heard about on podcasts. What mistakes do copywriters need to avoid to scale their businesses? The simplest way to go about getting testimonials – and something to absolutely avoid. Is there room for copywriters to enter the cruelty free industry? (you’re not going to believe how much it’s worth). How to find clients in the sustainable and cruelty-free industry. What is she doing differently as a strategist and how it helped her land a huge tech client. How The Copywriter Accelerator helped grow and scale her business. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the Accelerator  Join the Flip the Switch Workshop The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Topaz's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 253   Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  Could this be the TCC episode that turns Rob Marsh into a vegan? Possibly, or maybe this conversation simply highlights a gigantic opportunity for our community of copywriters and content writers and marketing strategists. We're talking about a fast-growing industry that is estimated to be worth $7 billion and growing. We're talking about the plant-based food space and cruelty-free products.   And today, we're talking with content strategist, cruelty-free copywriter, and our guest on The Copywriter Club podcast today, Topaz Hooper. Topaz chose her niche based on her morals and values. And she's built a six-figure business out of it. She's also managed to snag a huge client that we don't actually mention in this episode. We never actually name the client. But if you do a quick Google or a quick LinkedIn search of Topaz, you'll quickly figure out the client that we're talking about in this conversation. You won't want to miss everything Topaz is about to share with us. But first, I have a special guest as my co-host today. So I am so lucky to be here with my co-host, Mike Garner. Mike is an Accelerator alumni member, and a current member of the Think Tank Mastermind. Mike is finishing, about to finish a book, his first book, or did you just finish it, Mike? Mike Garner:  I'm just finishing the first draft. I'm editing. Kira Hug:  It's in editing mode. Mike is also an incredible email copywriter, and we just figured that out after working together on an email sequence recently, with so much talent and so much experience to share with us. So I feel grateful that you're here, Mike. Is there anything else you want to share that's really important to know about you before we continue? Mike Garner:  I feel slightly embarrassed at an introduction like that. I've been a copywriter for far too many years than I care to remember. I was a translator before that. And like you said, I fell out of the Accelerator into the think tank because I wanted to build more than just an okay business. And that's actually happening at the moment. Kira Hug:  And I'm sure we're going to talk more about that as we reflect on this conversation with Topaz. First, we like to sponsor our episodes. So this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator program. You're going to hear a little bit about it in today's episode. Topaz was a member of the program, Mike as well, like we just mentioned. It's a business builder that we're about to kick off in September. It's an intensive where we work closely with copywriters who want to focus on the business-building aspect of launching or pivoting their copywriting career. And Mike, maybe you can just share one or two sentences about the key benefit from your perspective after having been through the program. Mike Garner:  I think the main benefit is apart from what you learn and the ability to put everything all in one place, because you could do this on your own, to be quite Frank. It would take you much longer to do. And you're benefiting from the previous experience of other people. But I think the major, major, major, major benefit is the community. It's just being able to talk to other people every time things go well or not so well. You've always got a large community of people that you can just draw from and give to. Kira Hug:  Yes. And people, it's people like Mike, people like Topaz, who you will soon meet. So if you have any interest in the Copywriter Accelerator, don't wait because we only launch it and run it twice a year. And again, we're about to start in September. So you can check out a link to explore this opportunity in our show notes and on our website. Mike Garner:  So let's get into the interview with Topaz. Kira Hug:  So Topaz, we're going to kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Topaz Hooper:  So first thing, I started writing when I was 11. I knew that writing was my communication of choice since then. I was writing poetry and processing all those 11-year-old feelings that people have. And I realized that I wanted to be a writer. Of course, family, parents, "Oh, aren't you going to be a doctor or politician or something more useful?" That conversation happened. So it was sort of a windy journey after that. I decided to go vegan in 2015, and started a plant-based coaching program in 2018 to get more people to go vegan or plant-based. And what happened was I started writing my own copy. I was sort of teaching myself how to write copy. I didn't have the word for it then. But I did know that I wanted people to enroll in my coaching program. I wanted them to feel comfortable with me. I wanted them to be engaged in my email, and I was just figuring it out. So in 2018, when my coaching program was starting to get leads, starting to get enrollments, I'm like, "Oh! This writing thing can be more than just poetry." So after that, when 2020 hit, we all know what happened in 2019-2020, I had that sort of mid-pandemic crisis where I thought, "I think I'm ready to pivot from weird, odd jobs and different avenues to being a full-time writer." So I decided at that point to take three months of courses. I really was not knowledgeable about copywriting back in 2020. But I took a bunch of courses, read a bunch of books, joined the Copywriter Club Facebook group, and listened to the podcast. And after three months, I landed my first full-time copywriting role at a supplement company in my city of Boulder, Colorado. So that's how it all happened. And then I learned on the job, and now I'm here with my own business. Rob Marsh:  I don't want to skip over the vegan thing, but you're sitting here with a pretty decent meat eater. Give me the two-minute pitch on why I need to be eating more veggies, even if I can't give up meat altogether, what helps me be healthier. Topaz Hooper:  Here's my one-sentence pitch. If you want to save the world, go vegan. Rob Marsh:  There you go. Topaz Hooper:  I say that because the environmental impacts are tremendous with going vegan. You reduce the amount of animals that are eaten, which means you reduce the amount of methane that's produced, which means you reduce the amount of water that's used, which means that you reduce the amount of forests that are cut down. And so there's environmental impacts to going vegan. That can be really as simple as just having a salad once a day, or choosing to have one meat-free meal. And that simple change can change some of our climate. You also can change your health. Eating more vegetables and fruits can help you feel better and maybe be nicer like me. I'm nicer with more fruits and vegetables day to day. And that alone might change your relationships, might change how you show up in the world or on podcasts or with friends or family. And that can change how you feel and how other people feel about you, which can change the world. So there's all kinds of benefits in that way. But for me, it was mostly the lazy environmentalist perspective that got me into it, and a little bit of the health perspective that helps me show up and feel better every day. Rob Marsh:  I like that. So while I'm thinking about this, if I were to experiment with it and say, "Okay, I want to try it out." I'm not committed yet, but how long until I start to feel some pretty good effects to say, "Oh yeah. Okay, this is a good thing." Or if after three weeks I'm still craving bacon, I go back to the old me and destroy the world. Topaz Hooper: Fortunately, we have bacon alternatives that you may or may not be satisfied with at first. But I think after about a month, you'll start to feel like, "Okay, I'm feeling a little lighter. My mood's a little better. That weird ache that I keep having in my back kind of went away." It starts to have those impacts, I would say, about a month in. But maybe after the first week you might start feeling a little bit lighter.

On the 304th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rick Mulready jumps back on the show to talk about the changes and pivots he’s made over the last few years. Rick is a 7-figure business coach, online ads expert, and podcast host who has shifted to providing just one offer to his audience. This episode will walk through how he’s able to sustain his business with one offer while working just 25 hours a week. Here’s how the episode goes: Why he decided to pivot from FB ads to online business coaching. How he combined two offers into one signature offer for his business. What struggles he had along the way and how he overcame them (hint: mindset). Lost in identity and finding the direction you want your business to go. How to create profitable and optimized offers for your business – what’s needed to make them successful? How to effectively listen to the needs of your audience and finding out what they need and want. What does growth and success really look like? Are you subconsciously sabotaging your business and revenue? The effects of burnout and how to redefine how you approach your business vision. Getting stuck in the dark and coping with anxiety and depression. What does it take to work 25 hours a week? Building a sustainable team that aligns with your values and personality. What is the most valuable aspect of a business? How to scale a business with just one high-ticket offer? Do you need to launch forever? Niche vs broad – where should you start? Tune into the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator Waitlist Join the Flip the Switch Workshop The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Rick's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 88  Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  You ever get tired of what you're doing? Maybe you've been working in a particular niche so long that it's not just easy, but almost boring, or maybe you've been working with a particular client and it has become so familiar that every time you sit down to write for them, you're seated solidly in the middle of your comfort zone and you're not really growing. Maybe you're feeling stuck. Our guest on The Copywriter Club podcast today is business coach and online ads expert, Rick Mulready. Rick has made a massive shift in his business since we last spoke to him and we wanted to find out why. And as we talked with Rick, we also got his advice on creating offers, mindset and how someone's starting out today could create a business a lot like Rick's. I think you're going to like this one. Kira Hug:  But before we jump into Rick's interview, we want to share a little bit about The Copywriter Accelerator program, which we are really excited to kick off this fall. So, Rob, I'm curious what you like the most about this program. Rob Marsh:  So I like a lot of things, especially the community. And that's one thing that we hear over and over, is people talk about the two or three copywriters that they connect with, that they stay connected with for years afterwards. But two things that we've done recently, we reconfigured all of the content, rewrote everything the last time we ran the Accelerator and this time we are adding the training program, the workshop series that we just did, the P-7 training. I know that's kind of a secret. It's going to be a bonus as part of it, but if you're a podcast listener, maybe we just let that out of the bag. There is so, so much good stuff here to help somebody build a business. If you're struggling at all, if you're trying to figure out a new niche, if you're trying to just figure out how to make this all work, this is a killer program to help you do it. Kira Hug:  Yes. And this is a program that we refer back to all the time. So when we're talking to some of our think tank members who are at a different level and have been in their business for three to five years, oftentimes we say, "Okay, go back and focus on this part, your processes and go back into the Accelerator content." So I feel like it really is everything you need on the business end to put together a copywriting business. And it's so foundational that I revisit it frequently. And I remind other copywriters at multiple, different levels in their business to also go back and revisit those business builders, because it's critical to what we're doing, especially as we pivot. And we know that running a business in 2022 requires a lot of pivots, which we'll talk about with Rick today. So every time you pivot, you need to revisit parts of your business to make sure that it's working for you. Even if it was working a couple of years ago, it might not be working for you today. So I like it, I guess clearly I'm biased, but I feel really good about this program. Rob Marsh:  It's a great program. If you want to get on the waitlist or if you're listening to this maybe a week or so after this episode has come out, the Accelerator is actually open. Go check out thecopywriterAccelerator.com or if you're on our list, look for those emails promoting some of the workshops and the things that we're offering around it, but make sure you check it out. Okay. Let's hear from Rick about how he's completely changed his business over the last three years since we last spoke to him on this podcast. Kira Hug:  All right. So Rick, usually we ask you your entire story, but we were able to capture your story in episode 88. Rick Mulready:  Cool. Long time ago. Kira Hug:  Yeah. So I would love to hear, to kick this off. You've had some pivots, some transitions in your business? Rick Mulready:  Yup. Kira Hug:  Last time we spoke to you, we were talking about Facebook ads and you shifted in your business. So I would love to know what was the catalyst for those shifts as a starting point. Rick Mulready:  Yeah, I think it was... Well, number one, to be completely honest, I was kind of tired of talking about Facebook ads all the time, honestly. And... Rob Marsh:  How could you be tired of that fascinating, scintillating topic? Rick Mulready:  Okay. Talking about this again. And I mean, I can teach ads even today. I can teach ads to anybody and I truly do love it, but at the same time, I was like, "Ooh, I want to talk about something else." And so it just became this thing where I was starting to get questions more and more from... So right now, my only offer as of recording this, is my Accelerator coaching program. I've had it around for years, but years ago was the shell, a very small shell of what it is today. And so I remember sort of the aha moment for me was, I was sitting in a conference room where I had sort of a live event for the members and it at back then, this was four years ago, I think it was, it was just ads related. And they kept coming to me and saying, "My ads aren't working, my ads aren't working." And when we would dive into it, because they thought there was something wrong with their ads set up or, "I'm doing something wrong there." Rick Mulready:  And so they're like, "Well I'm not getting leads or I'm getting leads but the costs are way too high." And so when we dove into it, nine, well almost 10 times out of 10, it was basic marketing stuff. They didn't understand their target audience. They didn't understand how to solve the problem that the target audience had. And it was just basic foundational marketing stuff that they didn't understand. And on top of that, there was a whole bunch of mindset stuff going on, meaning like, "Oh, this doesn't work." Facebook ads stink. It's like, "Well, no. They work and you have to keep testing." And so long story short is that was sort of the catalyst of me starting to take a step back. And on the flip side of that, when people started getting success with their ads, they would be like, "Holy cow, my business is growing so fast, I'm working 14 hours a day. What do I do? How do I grow a team or what have you?" Rick Mulready:  And then at that point I'm rubbing my hands together like I'm doing on video right now. Like, "All right, let's get into that. I love talking about that." And so what I decided to do is like, "You know what? I'm going to start to expand beyond just talking about ads." And sort of my focus group, if you will, was my podcast. And so I was like, "I'm not going to make a name change or anything like that, I'm just going to start to sprinkle in these other topics, mindset or whatever and just kind of gauge the interest of listeners and listen to their feedback." And it was all positive. It was all really, really good. And so that was sort of the catalyst, if you will, of me beginning to expand, and I'm more than happy to talk about how that translated into different offers and so forth. But that was sort of how it started to come about. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. This is actually a really interesting topic for me, because Kira and I talked to a lot of copywriters who want to grow beyond the basic thing that we do, copywriting for clients. That one-on-one relationship, but a lot of people have the questions like, "How do I take those first steps? Can you only grow out of experience or you start trying things and experiment and see what works and maybe you're not always right, sometimes you're wrong." So how did that work for you, Rick? And there's a lot of mindset stuff going on just even with making that shift. Rick Mulready:  Yeah, for sure. Because up until that point, I was known as, "The Facebook ads guy." And so, number one, I had this whole identity thing where I was like, "Who am I if I'm not just the Facebook ads person?" And then it was like, "Well, people still want to learn from me when I'm still talking about ads, but I'm also talking about these other things too." And so Rob,

Joel Bergeron is our guest on the 303rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Joel is a copywriter who specializes in blockchain technology and web3. His interview dives into the world of blockchain and how copywriters can learn more about this new technology and even pivot their careers into blockchain writing. Here’s how the interview goes: His transition from being a military policeman to international disaster services in Asia. Why he decided shift into marketing and how he found copywriting. How he infuses his past lives into his copywriting career. What the heck is blockchain? What’s the difference between blockchain and web 3.0? How to know when to pause and slow down vs. push and go harder? The thing that helps Joel take a step back and remember his why. Building a lifestyle business and realizing when you need to pivot and make changes. The benefits of blockchain – more than just money? What it means to be 100% in control of your money. The downsides of blockchain and decentralization. How blockchain can apply to copywriters. Breaking into the blockchain niche as a copywriter – what’s involved? Finding a niche that aligns with your values and finding the right business to work with. How to find out more information about blockchain. The philosophy behind blockchain technology and how it has the potential to change world. Tune into the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Joel's Website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is a little different than usual in that our guest is Joel Bergeron, who is not only a copywriter but an expert in web 3.0 and blockchain technology, something that we have to admit we didn't know much about before our interview. And maybe we still don't know that much about it after the interview. We've spent a lot of time asking Joel about blockchain and the opportunities that are there for copywriters in this emerging industry. But how does a copywriter become an expert in blockchain? Joel's path is a bit serendipitous, going from the military to international development and disaster Services, ultimately ending up where he is today, but we'll let him tell you how he got there. Kira Hug:  Before we jump into the interview with Joel, we've got an announcement. We have something coming up for you soon. On August 23rd, we're hosting two different master classes, free master classes, and we are really excited to hopefully see you there. Rob, can you just kind of tease the subject matter that we're going to be diving into? Rob Marsh:  We call it Flip Switch, and it really is about finding leverage in your business. Anybody who's taken a physics class in high school or whatever, you know there's this idea that a lever can help you move really big weights. Well, we apply that to a few things in your business. And there are certain levers that you can use to make progress a lot faster. Of course, as a copywriter, you can try to figure out all of this stuff on your own. You can go through the process trying to figure out who your clients are, what kinds of things they need to buy or will buy, or how to price yourself so that they'll say yes. You can figure that out on your own, or we can show you how to use these levers to do that in your business too. So check out the master classes coming up. I think it's pretty good training. Kira Hug:  Yeah, it's great. So it's August 23rd. If you have any interest, you can jump into the link in our show notes and check out all the information and reserve your spot. So we hope to see you there. Rob Marsh:  All right, let's get to our interview with Joel. Joel Begeron:  I'm originally Canadian from a small town, a very, very small town. Very rough town. And so at that time, there weren't many opportunities, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do. So I joined the army actually. I always had this thing of wanting to help. And so, I was actually transferred to the military police, which was quite an interesting experience. And then I spent about three or four years in the military, and then this was during Iraq and Afghanistan, so I was a little bit uncomfortable with that obviously. And just what was happening, I just wasn't comfortable. So I ended up getting out actually, because they kept asking me to go overseas, overseas, and you can only say no so many times before it affects you. So I ended up getting out. And then, I went back to school for International Development and Globalization in Ottawa. So I guess that thing again of wanting to help, wanting to help change the world, wanting to do something great, I guess. And so international development was quite interesting. And then, I worked in the international development sphere in disaster services, disaster management for about five years, mostly in Asia. That was amazing as well. I was always traveling, really interesting work, but it was really I got emotionally and spiritually burnt out, to say the least. I think if I was to sum it all up, it would be, you have all these NGOs with big hearts and awesome ideas, but really deep down, it's really like all NGOs are just bandaiding systematic problems. So it's great that they're doing that, but I just got really burnt out where "We can't keep doing this forever. We have to actually fix the problems with society you hate." And so I ended up getting International Development. I was really lucky. I ended up getting hired randomly by a tech startup. I don't know why they hired me. I think it was because of languages. I had no experience in that at all. And it was called BroadbandTV actually. I think I was the 18th or 20th hire. And then we ended up going to 400 globally in a year, bought by a huge European company. It was amazing. So because of that experience, when I applied to other tech roles or other things, I was able to get some great roles. So I basically spent about eight years in marketing and technology mostly. And I really, really enjoyed that. However, I guess there are two big life events that kind of steered me into the copywriting side of things. The first one was, I was also getting a little bit burnt out from marketing because I feel like with marketing you're doing everything for everyone, right? You're not really great at one thing. You're just trying to pull it all together for the company. And the goal post is always moving, right? So you might hit your target, and then there's always a new target. There's always a new sale. There's always a new product. And so I wanted to become really good at something. I wanted a vocation, if that makes sense, like a true vocation. Working in sales in the technology sector and marketing, I was also doing a lot of writing, and I noticed that I could write all day and it didn't drain me, and I really enjoyed writing sales materials. It was fantastic, writing sales pages for websites or website copy, those kinds of things. I didn't even consider it copywriting. I was like, "Oh, this is part of my job," right? That was really, really the catalyst for me to really decide. I was about 37, when I just decided, "Yes, I want to do copywriting. I want to do it full-time. I want to become a great writer. It's going to take some time. It's going to take lots of stuff, but I want to focus and really have that true vocation." So that's what steered me into copywriting. And I dove into it head first like I do everything. So I read all the books. I took as many courses as I could. I joined the Think Tank. Yay. And yeah, it's been really fantastic. And then I guess the second life event that kind of ties into that would be, at the time that I was working in technology, I also was working in Bali, Indonesia. This guy kept pestering me at the co-working space I was working at to come to this event, this meet-up at night. And I was like, "Ah, he's so annoying." He kept asking me every day, "Something about Bitcoin. Something about Bitcoin." And I was like, "Fine. I'll go to your thing," right? And so I went to this evening event, and I watched two Indonesian farmers be able to pay each other for the rice crop who had never had a bank account. And I just knew at that moment, my mind was blown, that this technology was going to change the world. And so this was way back, I think, 2015. So just when things were starting really, really early. I think Bitcoin's price was like $20. We used to play poker with Bitcoins. Like six or seven Bitcoins to buy in. Yeah, it was intense. And so after that event, I volunteered, I joined associations, I read all the books I could. And then, because of my marketing and writing experience, I got hired by what you call blockchain of web 3.0 technology companies. And I held three senior roles on that. And that brings me to today. I think it's like the Fast and Furious part of my story, but yeah, between the blockchain, crypto, web 3.0 stuff, and I guess the wanting to have a true vocation, those were just super important to me. Rob Marsh:  Lots to cover. Let's come back to... I started to jot down a few questions, but I want to go back to what you were doing when you were doing disaster management, and we can kind of step forward through your career. I'm curious. Some of the stuff that you were doing or dealing with, I mean, share maybe an experience from that. But more importantly, what are the lessons that you took from those experiences that apply to marketing and copywriting and what you're doing today? Joel Begeron:  I think in those roles when there's a disaster or something wrong, people get really raw and really real really quickly, right?

Raven Douglas is our guest for the 302nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Raven is a Conversion Copywriter who focuses on the user experience for her clients’ businesses. In this episode, we walk through Raven’s beginning stages as a copywriter and the moves she made to go from $55 dollar projects to $37k. Here’s how the conversation goes: How Raven became the go-to writer for her peers and how it paved the way for her copywriting career. Her cold pitch method and why she took on free work. Educating business owners on copy and how it helps their business. First website prices… You gotta start somewhere. Getting a feel for different niches and playing around with different writing styles. How a 28 hour bus ride to TCCIRL in NYC was the pivotal moment that turned Raven’s dream into a reality. The sales script Raven uses to quote prices and close sales calls. How Raven negotiated a $37 project without diminishing her value. The guarantee Raven used in the beginning of her career and how it helped her close more clients and boost her confidence. The intake and vetting process Raven uses to find out the nitty gritty details of client results. Ethical selling – How Raven declines projects and shifts gears into consultation calls. How to set a consultation call and how to set expectations. Money mindset and pitching high-ticket services. Humanizing CEOs – Why we need to reframe our perception of CEOs. Living the digital nomad life – How’s it possible as a copywriter? Tune into the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: How to Find Clients Workshop The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Raven's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  From time to time, on this podcast, we've interviewed copywriters who seem to have a golden touch. They connect with the right clients, they start out charging more than what beginners charge, their niche, their brand, their work, it all just seems to work out. And then there are copywriters who work really hard to make things come together. They take chances that may not pay off, they struggle with low-paying projects, knowing that it's just the first step on a long journey. Today's guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast has more in common with that second group of copywriters than she does with the first. Copywriter brand strategist and direct response expert Raven Douglas has put in the hours, made the sacrifices and grown a business that might make a lot of other copywriters drool in envy. We first met her five years ago in Manhattan. So, this excellent interview has been a long time in coming and we think you're not going to want to miss it. Kira Hug:  But before we get to our interview with Raven, we have an ask for you if you listen to the show regularly, or actually, if this is your first time listening and you enjoy this episode, we would love for you to leave a review for the show. If you do review the show, we will share your review in an upcoming episode. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. We like to share those reviews at the end of the show. Maybe you've stuck around long enough to hear a couple of them, but we'd love hearing what you think about the podcast and what our guests share. So, if you would just hop over to Apple Podcasts and click four or five stars, whatever you feel like it deserves, and then just leave a couple of words, your thoughts about your experience with the podcast, we would really appreciate it. Kira Hug:  Yeah. I like how you did not give them the option of giving us a three-star or below. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Well, I mean, if they want to give us a one or two-star review, we could read those, too, but- Kira Hug:  No, I don't want to read those. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. We'll see what we get in. Kira Hug:  Okay. Rob Marsh:  All right. So, let's get to our interview with Raven. Raven Douglas:  I swindled my way in, I was an enterprising young college student and you had to do a year in the writing lab as an English major, anybody listening and who is writing copy will know that you don't actually really need a degree to write copy. I chose English because I didn't know what to do, but I knew I was always really good at English. I did my year in the writing lab. I was out with several people being college students be like, "Hey, can you still help me?" And what they really meant is, "Can you write it for me?" And then I said yes. And several of those people went on to graduate. I can now say that I have my degree safely, so they can't take it from me. I wrote a lot of their papers, but they opened businesses. Then they came back to me and said, "Hey, could you write my brochure for my business? Could you write my website?" And I said yes, and hit the library to figure out how to do it on the back-end. I found an old copy book by Bob Bly and I went, "Oh, I know what this is." I was taking marketing 101 and we had just started talking about P.T. Barnum. And I said, "Oh, I know what this is." And I wrote what I can now say is very bad copy a little over 10 years ago and I turned it into those first clients and they went, "Great, how much do we owe you?" And I got on Google. I said, "Oh, you can charge for this. Oh, you can really charge for this." So, I did. And I figured, "Well, if I could do this for business owners that I know, I could probably go around and ask business owners that I don't know if I could also do this for them." So, I started developing that cold pitching muscle live. Then I figured out that there were these things called marketing agencies and they actually had them in small town Jackson, Mississippi. So, I started pitching them too and was like, "Hey, y'all got a little bit of that overflow. I work for free." Yeah, that's how I got started. Rob Marsh:  I'd love to hear more about that pitching process that you built out. Obviously, the first couple of referrals come in, that's where a lot of copywriters start. We know a few people, we do that work, but at some point we have to start building a pipeline of clients, right? How did you reach out to them? Do you even remember that first pitch that you would make and what were you asking for? What problem were you solving? How did that all come together? Raven Douglas:  That's a great question. My memory's kind of poor, I'm not going to lie. I think my first pitch was something along the lines of like, "Hey, would you like to have somebody write things for your business?" Because I didn't quite connect yet that copy could bring businesses more sales, that was my purview. I was just like, "Hey, do you need things written for your business? Do you need a brochure written? Do you need your website updated? Do you even have a website?" And a lot of businesses at the time didn't have websites or they didn't have great ones. So, I just asked them, "I'll write it and I'll write it for free. And if you don't like it, you don't have to pay me. Could you just tell me what you think of it?" Several of them of course said yes, because that was a great deal for them. Interestingly enough, a lot of people were either very honest or just very kind, because most people did pay me. But that was the first pitch for those businesses. Then a few businesses introduced me to other forms of copy. I got into direct mail that way, because they went, "Hey, we sent out these mailers and we were thinking of creating a new one. Would you want to give it a try?" And I said yes and I still had no idea what I was doing, but it was really interesting to cut my teeth with those pitches, because there were some people that just straight told me no, because I didn't know how to sell it. I had no idea, again, what the value was, but it taught me very quickly to be like, "Oh, they need to say yes to me and I need to be able to articulate to them what this is going to do for them." So, once I figured that out based on what some other businesses graciously told me in feedback, it's like, "Oh yeah, we got so many customers. They said they saw our direct mail ad. They loved it. These people visited our website and they wrote us to tell us how much they loved it." So, that helped me understand like, "Oh, this is valuable and it brings customers in." So, then I could sell it properly or at least better. Kira Hug:  Okay. So, I want to get granular real quick. Because we talk frequently with copywriters about whether or not to sell for free or whether or not to give copy away for free, can you just speak to that and how it worked for you in more detail? How did you phrase it? How did it play out for you? Why it was worthwhile? Why maybe it didn't work in some situations? For other copywriters who are just getting started and want to try that process out. Raven Douglas:  Sure. How I phrased it was, because, again, I was still an enterprising young college student. So, this phrasing is probably going to be pretty rough, but how I phrased it was like, "Hey, I want to write for you. Do you have things for your business that you need written? That could be brochures, that could be websites, that could be anything that you need written. Even if it's a letter to your customers, I will write it. And what's best is I'll do it for free. If you don't like it, you don't have to pay me. All I ask is that you give it a try and that you tell me what you think about it." So, that was essentially my pitch, because the only thing I could think of at the time was that, "Oh, I have no idea what I'm doing. And if it's going to cost them something, then they'll probably say no." I also had no idea of pricing really at the time. So, I probably wouldn't have even known what to really ask for.

Tiffany A. Ingle is our guest on the 301st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Tiffany is a conversion copywriter and brand strategist who finds much of her creativity from the world of fantasy. In this episode, she walks through how copywriters can tap into their most creative energy and create strong, authentic-to-them brands. Here’s how the conversation goes: What is a brand and why do you need one? How Tiffany helps people with their big picture strategy. Tiffany’s process for networking and connecting with others as an introvert. How this one thing is inevitable through building relationships. A natural approach to get to know new people and actually maintain the relationship. Why fantasy can help you become a better business owner and copywriter – And how it will help you become more resilient. How to apply the CRAVE framework to your business and create a strong brand. The process of packaging deliverables as a brand strategist – What goes into it? How to sell something that doesn’t have a direct ROI but an opportunity cost. The importance of anchoring your brand story to your business. What mistakes are copywriters making when trying to create a brand? How to tap into fantasy (+ book examples). Therapy and boundaries and how they’re helpful in business. How to build your toolbox for mental health and negative events. Why you shouldn’t tie your goals to these factors. Running a business, home-schooling kids, and balancing life – How does Tiffany do it all? Tune in to the episode to find out. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: How to Find Clients Workshop The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Tiffany's Linktree The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  After working as a copywriter for a few years, a lot of copywriters find that the title copywriter doesn't really fit all of the work that they do. Yes, they use words to help their clients communicate the right messages, but often they do a lot more than that. The strategic problems that they solve are bigger than headlines, body copy, and calls to action. They may help with content strategy. They may help with offer creation or with brand strategy. That's what Tiffany Ingle, our guest for today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, does for her clients. In this interview, we asked about her process for discovering and telling better brand stories and what she shared will be useful for anyone who helps clients write and tell their own brand stories. Kira Hug:  But before we get to our interview with Tiffany, you may have seen an email or maybe a couple of emails from us about our new intensive designed to help you find clients consistently. Rob, I just want to share why we created this new intensive. We could have created many different new products, but why did you feel like this one was important? Rob Marsh:  Well, we actually surveyed our email list and we had about 150 people just respond really quickly with the thing that they would like to see us do, the number one question that they're struggling with, and more than half of the people who responded said they wanted help finding clients, help with leads and the process of going through how do they even pitch or land those clients. We've spent a lot of time putting together basically a workshop series that addresses that need and will give everybody who joins the tools, the training, and a system for habits that will make it a lot easier to implement this on a daily or a weekly basis in your business. Kira Hug:  Yeah, it's great if you know that you need a system that can help you find and then book clients consistently and you're struggling with this maybe because you just don't find the time to do it, or maybe because you're trying different strategies that just aren't working. We put together these seven different phases in this system that will all work together to help you to land these clients consistently. If you want to find out more information about this, if it sounds like something you could use, don't wait because we're going to kick off in early August and jump in soon. You can check out all the information by jumping into the link and the show notes. Rob Marsh:  All right, let's get to our interview with Tiffany. Tiffany A. Ingle:  I became a copywriter at the end of 2019 after a few years of being a freelance writer, and I've had the privilege of writing copy behind the scenes for digital entrepreneurs and SaaS companies, content agencies, authors and speakers. I really enjoy writing copy, and I think I do a pretty good job at it, but I realized that the part I love most about my work was helping my clients strengthen their brands. I guess from a personal perspective, when I first got started as an entrepreneur, I spent so much money on all this training over the years to try to learn how to run a business. I always felt like I was getting really small pieces of the puzzle. But since I didn't know what the full picture looked like, I couldn't put it together. Tiffany A. Ingle:  I didn't have a strategy for marketing myself. I didn't have a compelling story to serve as the unifying message for what I need my audience to believe about me. I didn't have a way to easily build out and test new offers. And that's all because the one thing I hadn't learned how to do was build a brand. Without a brand, you won't be in business for long. The more I worked with clients and I got into things like research and positioning and voice and messaging and offer optimization, I realized that I was more concerned about how the work I was doing on a launch or on standalone assets fit in with their overall brand strategy. I decided to move away from execution and to really focus on those foundational elements of running a business. Rob Marsh:  When you say you moved away from execution, you're still executing, but you're executing on something different, right? You're not doing as much copy. You're doing more strategy. Am I right in that? Will you talk a little bit about the difference as you see it? Tiffany A. Ingle:  Yeah, that's correct, Rob. There was a time when people would come to me for launches or they want sales pages, things like that. And now when I work with people, it's typically just to strengthen their brand. We put together a roadmap. I do that kind of work, or maybe we'll focus just on the messaging because the messaging really ties everything together. As far as doing a lot of the projects that copywriters typically do, I have not been doing that as much lately. I'm really enjoying helping people put together a big picture strategy for how they're going to grow their businesses. Kira Hug:  Tiffany, I want to go back to 2019 because that was a good year. Let's go back in time. How did you get your first few clients? How did you build in those early months as you were gaining traction in your business? Tiffany A. Ingle:  My first clients were actually people that I knew just from being in different circles, different business circles online. I approached them and asked if I could do some case studies for them, because that seemed like a really good way to dip my feet into the copywriting waters. But then a couple months later when the... This is like the end of 2019 when I started. A couple months later, the pandemic was a thing. I had been thinking about joining Copyhackers Copy School for a while. I decided to go for it because I was stuck at home, like everyone else. And then I was able to get some clients through that, other copywriters who needed some help. It just kind of took off from there. I mean, anytime someone asks me now like how I've grown my business, my number one answer is just networking. I just really take a lot of time to get to know people and just to build connections for the sake of just making a new friend and inevitably that leads to more business down the line. Rob Marsh:  I want to go a little deeper on networking and making those connections, because this is something that a lot of us struggle with, even when we have a good business that everything seems to be going well. It feels sometimes like it's really difficult to create new relationships or to reach out to new potential clients. Tiffany, what are you doing to actually do that? Obviously, we're not necessarily talking about pitching here, you're- actually creating relationships and friendships and connections. How do you do that? Tiffany A. Ingle:  I'm a professional community member and group chatter. I love just hanging out in places where I can meet people who are doing amazing creative things. I always let people know if they want to do a Zoom chat or even like a good old-fashioned phone call; I'm always down for that. I've even recently started meeting people locally, which has been pretty fun and just a little surreal, because I never thought I'd be running my business offline too. But no, I let people know I'm open. I guess, other places where I've connected with people include LinkedIn, Twitter, just joining conversations there. But yeah, mostly just being a part of really cool communities and showing a genuine interest in people and also letting people know I'm open to teaching things, even if it doesn't directly align with my business goals. If I can share something that I know to help someone else, I'll do it. Kira Hug:  Maybe we can break this down even more because I know this comes naturally to you and I feel like you do have so many great relationships and this is where a lot of your projects come from. But for some copywriters, it's just it doesn't come as naturally. When they hear you say group chatter, I'm not sure how you worded it,

300 podcast episodes later and Rob and Kira STILL have things to talk about… That’s copywriters for you. On this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob sit down and answer questions from their listeners and reflect over the last 300 episodes while looking forward to the future of TCC. Here’s how the episode goes: The act of mentally preparing for big changes – and getting back to your old self AFTER big changes. Running a business as a parent of young children and going through the motions. Is The Copywriting Club a thing? Rediscovering passions and adding more fun What does the future of TCC look like? The worst business advice Kira and Rob have received in growing their business. If they were to start it all over – What would they do differently? Mistakes Rob and Kira have made along the way and how they’ve learned from them. Rob and Kira’s go-to podcasts – Do they have favorites? What was the tipping point for the podcast? The current books on Rob and Kira’s bookshelves. A new offer all about they key to finding clients. Listen to the podcast or check out the transcription below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: How to Find Clients Workshop Waitlist  The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Okay. So this is episode 300 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And usually, we would start out with maybe some interesting teases about what our guest is going to share, but today it's just you and me Kira, and rather than tease the amazing content of this episode. And I'm saying that slightly facetiously, I mean, maybe it will be amazing. We haven't recorded it yet, but we're just going to jump right into the podcast and into episode 300, this is a celebration for us. Kira Hug:  Yeah. It's a big celebration. I don't think it's fully hit me that 300 episodes is incredible. So we should really celebrate somehow. We're not great at celebrating. Rob Marsh:  No, this is definitely a weakness. And I would love to send every listener a 300 pin, or something like that. Kira Hug:  That'll be fun. Rob Marsh:  But if you've been here since the very beginning, we actually would love to have a comment or hear from you, just your thoughts on the show, how it's changed over time, the impact that it's had in your business, just, maybe we start that conversation in the Facebook group and just let people respond. It's gratifying to hear that people find something amusing from it or helpful from it. And maybe you also have some criticism or something, send that directly to me, not to Kira necessarily, but yeah, we, this is a big deal and most people don't get to a hundred podcast episodes. And so hitting 300 feels like a pretty big win for us and for the people who've been on our show. Kira Hug:  Yeah. And I think that it feels like it's also been a while since you and I chatted on the show. Right? It feels like it's been forever. Rob Marsh:  Well, I mean, we've been trying to, we try to do it every 10 episodes or so, but I feel like we might have missed it last week. Kira Hug:  We missed one. Yes. So, I mean, let's just do a quick check-in because you and I haven't chatted on the podcast recently. I'm just curious, Rob, how is your summer going so far? It's mid-July, how are things for you? Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Summer actually has been enjoyable. We had a friend come over from England, so we've done some traveling, a lot of like, driving through the national parks here in Utah, which are amazing. It's surprisingly green in some of the desert areas, which is interesting because we're supposed to be in the middle of a drought, but yeah, it's been a really nice summer as far as personal stuff going on and having an opportunity to travel, hang out, do some stuff and yeah. Things are going pretty good. How about you? You've actually got more news than I do, I think. Kira Hug:  Yes, because I move every three years. I always have news. I'm always like either arriving or departing cities. And so I am moving again. I feel like I've moved three times since I met you. Maybe. Rob Marsh:  Yeah, this is I think, well you, yeah, you moved into a place in Brooklyn, you moved into a new place in Washington, DC, and now you're moving to, as about as far north as you can get and still be in the States. Kira Hug:  Yes, exactly. We're trying to leave the States, but this is as far as we can go while still staying in the States. So we're moving to Maine, we'll be outside of Portland, near the water, near the city, really excited about this move and just having a pretty big change in many different ways. So that's happening in a couple of weeks for me. I mean, I don't know. I've been very anxious and stressed out over the last few months. Like things haven't been as great as there's been protesting, there's been a lot that's happened. I got COVID. So that was not fun either. And then I gave it to my entire family and it was definitely me. I got it at a party in New York City. I'm pretty sure. And then I gave it to my entire family, so I did not do a great job of quarantining. And so we are actually recovering from that. I mean, of course, it was not, we're lucky, we were vaccinated and everything, so we're fine, but it was just this removal as we were trying to see all of our friends and family before we move, it's just been quiet here and just mentally preparing, packing and getting ready for this big change that we're about to face. And it's also like, I just, my son, my baby, Homer turned one last month. And so that has been really big because I think for me hitting that one-year mark has just been a really big shift where I feel like I've gotten back, back to my old self. I don't think you realize when you're not functioning the same way and you're not the same person, but once you get back to it, you're like, oh, wow, that was a lot. Like, that was very intense for two years. And like it's less intense now and I have more freedom and you know, he's less dependent on me and I have more support. And so I have felt that shift and it feels really good. So in that case, it just feels like anything's possible and I've made it through that hard stage with a baby and pregnancy. And so I'm out of that, which has been just a nice release too. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. I have mad respect for moms, for dads, parents, caregivers that have to take the time, especially for such young children, it's a lot and it's hard to get it all done. In fact, it's impossible to get it all done. And so yeah. Lots of respect for anybody who's going through that, or dealing with that. Kira Hug:  Well, I think when you're in it too, you don't realize like, you know it's hard, but you're just like keeping up and you don't realize it until you're through it. You're like, oh, I was just doing the motions, but you know, I wasn't quite where I needed to be. And so it's nice to feel like I have space to really think and like about our business and what we're doing with The Copywriter Club. And I think in many ways I've just been trying to keep up. And so it's nice to be in a position where it can be more proactive. So I'm excited about that. That feels really good. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Well, while we're talking about that, like what is going on with the copywriting club? I Copywriter Club. I didn't even say our name wrong. The Copywriter Club. Kira Hug:  You can't even say our name, it's just- Rob Marsh:  But although I think if you go to the copywritingclub.com, it will come to us as well. So- Kira Hug:  That's fine. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. But yeah, what's going on? Not personal, but business-wise, what are you working on? What are we working on? Kira Hug:  I love how you just threw that at me. Rob Marsh:  Of course. Kira Hug:  Especially as I've taken the last week and a half off. So I'm like, I don't know what is going on, Rob? You've been in the business last week. No, I think that you and I, maybe this will come up when we cover some questions from the community, but you and I have been doing some deep work together to just figure out how we're going to grow the business. And I feel like what got us here, isn't going to get us to the next stage. And that's the case for any business as you grow. And so I think you and I have felt that, and we're trying to figure out what needs to shift as we grow. What are we working towards? What is working, what's not working? What are the roles that you and I play together? And we're working with our mentors. I feel lucky to have coaches and mentors who can support us as we're again, doing some foundational work to set ourselves up for the next five years, the next 10 years, whatever that looks like. Rob Marsh:  A lot of stuff going on in the background, but really trying to figure out like, how do we make The Copywriter Club more effective for everybody who joins one of our programs? How do we make sure that they get the support that they need, the attention that they deserve and we're having a bigger impact on their businesses. Kira Hug:  Yeah. And so for you, what is that? What is a struggle with, as we're in this shift? Right. Like it's not easy. I think it's messy, to me, it feels like the messy middle of here's where we want to go, but we're not quite there yet. How do we get there? And it's just, we got to make a mess and have fun while we're doing that. What is a struggle for you as we're in this transitional stage? Rob Marsh:  You know, I'm not sure how to articulate it because it feels like there's just so much stuff that we have to wrap our arms around and get done. And we've got a great team of people who have been helping us just really figuring out, like, what is the goal?

Belinda Ellsworth is our guest on the 299th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Belinda is a drummer turned direct sales expert who opens the conversation about mastering your craft. She is the author of a #1 international best seller, “Direct Selling for Dummies,” and successfully grew her podcast which is part of the iHeartRadio platform. Take a peek inside Belinda’s genius: Belinda’s journey from rock band to a side-hustle in direct sales. Becoming a sales and motivational speaker and transitioning into a consultant helping companies scale from $1-$20 million. Why Belinda decided to go all-in on a podcast – and her invitation to iHeartRadio. How being a drummer set her up for success in every other area of her career. The secret behind Belinda’s success in podcast growth and becoming a skilled interviewer. How mastering your craft will accelerate your growth, career, and lifestyle. The importance of vetting guests before letting them jump on the show. How to analyze data and make improvements when you want to grow anything. Sales conversations – What’s the deal with those? The 4 strategies Belinda offers to become a better salesperson (even if you're a beginner). What does it take to start consulting? How are you supposed to package your expertise? How can you become an expert at anything? Why you need to restructure your onboarding process and how it will take you to the next level. The real deal on client and customer retention. How to get more done through the 4 pillars of success. Structuring your power hour – How Belinda moves the needle in her business. Are you letting the day run you? The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Belinda's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 81 Episode 137   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is a little different from normal for a couple of reasons. First, our guest, Belinda Ellsworth, isn't a copywriter, she's a podcaster, a business consultant, and a productivity expert. And what she shares about getting started in business, having confidence, sales, and even thinking about the right metrics is going to give you a lot to think about. The second reason this podcast is a little different is that I am here alone today. Kira's on vacation. And usually when that happens, we ask a guest to join us, to talk about what we're learning from the episode. But, well, I took some time off earlier this week as well. So we just didn't have enough time to schedule a guest. I hope you don't miss the back and forth that we normally have, as I share some of the stuff that stands out to me most from this episode. And without Kira here, I'll also tell you that this episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator. That's our program that's designed to give you the blueprint, the structure, the coaching, the direction, and the community that you need to accelerate your business growth in about four months so that you can go from overwhelmed freelancer to fully booked business owner. We're going to be opening up The Copywriter Accelerator for new members next month. And if you'd like to get on the waitlist to make sure that you're the first person to hear the details, especially about the early bird pricing rate and information about the program. When it opens up in August, you'll want to go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com and join the waitlist. And we'll also link to that in the show notes in case you're not able to write that down. Okay. So let's jump into our interview with Belinda and learn how she became an expert in sales. Belinda Ellsworth:  Well, it goes way back to gosh, nearly 40 years ago, I just started doing in a direct sales business, as a side hustle while I was pursuing a music career. So I was just doing that. I was playing full-time and doing this on the side just to supplement between gigs. And it worked, and I made really good money, and that was like I said, I was 18 when that was going on. And then when I actually started a family and then I wasn't traveling with the band and deciding I wasn't going to be a rockstar anymore. I said, "You know what? I was pretty good at this. I'm going to really dive in and be serious about it." So I, myself, just was really, really good at sales and developed those skill sets. And I would be asked to speak at different conferences on why I was doing as well as I was doing. And that really led to a couple of really top-level motivational speakers at that time hearing me and saying, "This is what you need to be doing. You need to be teaching other people how to do this for a living." And so that was in 1995 when I decided to branch out and start my own company, teaching people how to be better in sales and doing motivational speaking and sales training. And I really did that up until 2004, hardcore. And even in 2004, I continued to be a motivational speaker, but I started consulting because I had my daughter. So I restarted my family. I've got 20 years between my kids. And so when I had her, I was like, "I really don't want to be on the road eight, ten times a month." So I started consulting with other companies and really was able to take a couple of companies from a million to 20 million in a short window of time. And so learned some real basic onboarding skill sets that have really been tremendous in helping other companies. So that's been my journey of how my business has morphed, and it's been exciting because five years ago, I started my podcast, which really was about entrepreneurs and had absolutely nothing really to do with direct sales specifically. And during COVID then, because I wasn't on the road at all, then I put my energies into consulting and then put my energies into my podcast and that's really paid off really well. So it goes back to what you put... We were just asked to be part of the iHeartRadio platform, which is huge. Rob Marsh:  Congratulations. Kira Hug:  Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Belinda Ellsworth:  I know that just happened last week. And so it was like, "Wow." And it goes back to that old saying of where you put your focus is what you will get. If you put your focus on things positively and where you really want to go, that will increase and get better. And if you are constantly chaotic and divided and not sure about where you are putting your energies, you oftentimes won't get the desired result that you want. I've known that all over the years, I've taught it over the years, but that really was the proof in the pudding again because when COVID happened and I lost every single speaking engagement I had for a whole year, they just started ... I had a year's worth of business booked and in five days, every single bit of it was gone. And I've got a staff of six and I'm like, "How are we going to support them? And not only them, but ourselves?" It was a big pivot and figuring it out; and it was a struggle year, but we managed. And I put my focus in two key areas instead of this huge umbrella, and it paid off. And it has been exciting to see that again, where you put your focus and that works for both positive and negative. If you constantly put your focus on negative energy and how this is too hard to do, and I don't really have any leads and I don't know what's going to happen, that's going to be your result as well. So it works for both ends of that spectrum of both positive and negative focus. Rob Marsh:  Belinda, I want to go back to something you said at the very beginning of your story, you were in a rock band. Tell us about that experience and how that has impacted where you are today. Belinda Ellsworth:  Sure. So, believe it or not, I was a drummer. And at that time, there really weren't a lot of female drummers. I've always been paving that way, even going back to the fifth and sixth grade, it's like I was always the only female, and that continued through high school. And then being in a band there still aren't that many. There's a lot more to date than there ever was in the past. So I was a drummer and I would say for that, just like anything, and this is an area where people aren't willing to do because I've been interviewing artists. We've changed our show up to be Monday is entrepreneurs and Thursday; artists. And every single one of them is, "You've got to master your craft." And so, I would be practicing all of the time, even in school. If they said, "Practice 30 minutes." I practiced for an hour. If they said, "Do this." I did it longer. So it's like, you have to master your craft. That means doing it. It means practice. It means, if they're writers and they're copywriters, you need to be writing a lot. You need to be honing that skill, not sitting around and just waiting for something to come your way. And so I would say that is why I started performing, at 15, 16 years old. By the time I was 18 and out of high school, I was playing six nights a week. So do I think that helped me then when I became a presenter and a motivational speaker? For sure, the confidence piece, you've already been on a stage, you've already had people that you've been able to deal with nerves and things like that. But other than that, the drummer's always the one on the back. You're not upfront. I think at the end of the day, the more you master your craft, the more confident that you are and confidence comes through knowledge in doing and practicing. And that allows you to be more confident, either on stage, talking to prospects, whatever the case may be, the more confident you feel inside, and the more you believe in yourself inside, the more that's projected out. And a lot of that comes from doing just practice.