The Copywriter Club Podcast

Simon De Brito is our guest on the 318th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Simon is a Marketing Automation Specialist who creates inbound marketing strategies in order to turn prospects into customers. Not only does this episode give you the inside scoop on inbound marketing but just how different buyers are in different parts of the world. Tune into the episode to find out: What is inbound marketing and what does a Marketing Automation Specialist even do? How the different stages of awareness helps create conversion-worthy content. What’s the difference between B2B and B2C buyers? Why you can’t just throw content out for the sake of content. Scoring systems – what are they and what does it do for business? What mistakes are marketers making in their inbound marketing efforts? Which free tools translate for smaller businesses? SEO – does YOUR business need it? Why you need to STOP solving everyone’s problems. How to save time, stretch your content, and drive more eyes on your content. The future of inbound marketing. Marketing differences between Europe and the U.S. How understanding cultural differences will give you an edge in your marketing efforts. Check out the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Simon's LinkedIn  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 183 Episode 242 Episode 256 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Let's talk a little bit about marketing automation. So as copywriters, we have the opportunity to work with a lot of different tools. Often we simply take care of the copy and then we hand over a copy document and let the client worry about getting into the right tools, whether that's their email service provider or an automated social media content posting tool, or maybe even something more robust like Marketo or HubSpot. But other copywriters are taking the time to learn the ins and outs of these kinds of tools in order to bring greater expertise and strategic thinking to the table for their clients. They're solving even bigger problems, which can be a pretty compelling competitive advantage. Our guest for today's episode of the Copywriter Club podcast is marketing automation specialist Simon De Brito, and he shared a bit about how mastering these tools can make you a better marketer, whether you do it for your clients or for your own business. But before we get to the interview with Simon, let me first introduce my guest host for the day. He's been on the podcast as an interview guest himself several different times. He's been a guest host once before, and he's the person who introduced me to Goo Goo Clusters and started my summer downfall with sugar. It's Justin Blackman. Hey, Justin. Justin Blackman:  I will happily take the blame for the Goo Goo Clusters. They are amazing. That was my favorite part of the Nashville event. Literally, that was the first thing I thought of when you guys said that you were going there. Rob Marsh:  Yeah, Goo Goo Clusters, I ate three bags of them. I'm glad they don't sell them here. At least you have to really go looking for them. And yeah, it knocked me off of my no-sugar bandwagon, which I'm back on. No Goo Goo Clusters on the desk today. But yeah, they're either the very most delicious thing in the world or the most evil thing in the world, or maybe both. Justin Blackman:  I'm sure that there's a marketing lesson in there about scarcity and urgency of, "Oh, I'm going down the airplane. I need to get one more bag because I'm not going to be able to get it anywhere else." Yeah, it's amazing. Every now and again, I'm here in Georgia. Every now and again, I'll stumble on a gas station near the border by Tennessee that will have it in Georgia and it'll feel like contraband.

Tori Autumn is our guest for the 317th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Tori is an email strategist and copywriter who helps coaches and course creators grow their businesses through fervent messaging. In this episode, she spills how she's quickly grown her copywriting business and what she's had to shed to make it happen. Here's what you'll find: How Tori went from broadcast journalism to self-love coaching to copywriting. What to do when jobs don’t go the way you planned them to. The balance between nonprofit work and owning a copywriting business – practical tips for pursuing multiple passions. How she built her business to $20k months in a matter of a year. Why she invests her time in networking and the benefits it's given her business. The REAL benefits of 5-figure months. How The Accelerator and Think Tank helped her business grow and flourish. How to shift your mindset as you’re growing your business. Copywriting vs. strategy – what’s the difference and how will it help you position yourself as the expert? How she went from writing email sequences in a couple of weeks to a couple of days. Why you need to let go of toxic clients for yourself and for their benefit. Choices and decisions. Which one is more powerful? Should we have seasons for connection calls? Referral systems – are they a good idea? The mistakes marketers are making today and how to solve them. How to begin building extra streams of income. Tune into the episode by pressing play or reading the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Tori's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 184 Episode 261 Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  You know how most copywriters jump into copywriting as a side hustle while working their full-time job? And they can't wait to build up the business enough to ditch their 9 to 5 and focus 100% on their copywriting business. While today's guest for the 317th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast isn't the type of copywriter to follow the traditional path. That's right. Tori Autumn, an email strategist and copywriter, has gone from zero to achieving the coveted 20K a month by shedding toxic clients, seasonal networking, launching new products, specifically templates, and balancing a full-time job with a growing copywriting business. And the best part, she's done it all over the last year. Here's Tori's story and all the lessons learned along the way. You don't want to miss this episode. But before we get into our interview, let me introduce my very, very special co-host this week. It's me. So you are stuck with me, just me. This week I decided to hijack the show and give Rob the boot. So here we are. Feels a little strange without a co-host, but we'll make do. So first up, today's episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank Mastermind. So why should you join this Mastermind this month? I mean, you could join any mastermind, and you could join any month, so why this one right now? Well, we have a team of coaches in this mastermind, so not only do you have access to Rob and me to provide feedback, strategic direction, private coaching as you move through your business and achieve your goals, but you also have access to a team of coaches. So you have access to a mindset coach, a systems and growth coach, and our newest coach that you have access to when you join the Think Tank is a visibility coach. Those are three core areas that we know copywriters struggle with the most, so we wanted to bring in coaches who have specialized in those areas to help the copywriters in our Mastermind. So again, you don't just have access to Rob, to me, although you'll get more of us than you probably even want in your business,

We’ve invited Kirsty Fanton back on the show for the 316th episode! Kirsty is an ex-psychotherapist turned launch copywriter and on top of running a thriving copywriting business, she’s also a new parent. Her expertise in the psychotherapy world makes her the best person to chat boundaries around not just navigating parenthood and business, but creating better boundaries for ourselves as a whole. Here’s what you’ll find in the conversation: How Kirsty’s business has changed since our first interview with her. How TCC programs helped her business reach 6-figures and introduced her to an incredible network. The shift her business made since having a baby. Preparing for maternity leave and how creating a passive stream of income helped her business. The process to create an evergreen funnel. How to step back and look at your business from a strategic perspective. How she built a business that worked around her life when her time was so out of her control. The tools she gained from being a licensed psychotherapist and how they can help you practice belief work. Are you holding on to this limiting mindset belief? The fine line of teetering two sides of business – how to avoid burnout. Why you don’t need to rely on having a large audience and how to make money from a small following. How to create an ecosystem of offers that supports your clients in all directions. What surprised her most about maternity leave and having a baby. Advice on how to implement boundaries from the expert and why they’re critical to your business (and life). Setting aside time for the big picture visions in business – where does it fit in? How to increase your reach and grow your email list. What to look out for when you’re trying to find a partner to collaborate with. The expectations vs. reality of parenthood. Check out the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Kirsty's free workshop The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Kirsty's first episode 106 Episode 268 Brandon's podcast Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  If you are planning on taking a sabbatical for any period of time, whether it's for maternity leave, paternity leave, or any type of leave away from the business, this is a conversation you won't want to miss. I knew I had to talk to Kirsty Fanton, our guest for the 316th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast about her experience planning for and working through maternity leave after the arrival of her little one, Ollie. Kirsty and I had our babies roughly around the same time, give or take a few months. And it wasn't the easiest of times to bring a child into this world. I mean, is it ever an easy time? No. Kirsty evolved her business during this time, despite the harsh reality of caring for a baby during a strict lockdown in Sydney. This entire conversation is a candid one about what worked, what didn't work, and how we can all continue to grow our businesses in new ways as our lives dramatically change. You won't want to miss it. Okay, So today I have a special co-host. I am so excited to have Brandon Burton here. If you don't know Brandon already, Brandon's a part of our TCC team, has been in the community, growing the community over the past few years. You probably already know him, he's been on the podcast before, but in case you don't, he is a brand voice strategist for Introverted Experts, a podcaster, a new podcaster with a new podcast, which is very exciting, a father to a new baby, Zion. So part of the reason, Brandon, I'm so excited to have you here, is because we're going to talk a lot about babies and maternity leaves and adjusting to business and work after having a baby. And so I'm really glad that you can add to this conversation.

Rob Perry is our guest on the 315th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob Perry is a SaaS and B2B copywriter and consultant who has built a solid pipeline of clients without using a website, email list, or high-profile social media presence. In fact, he grew his business using a platform you may be familiar with: Upwork. How’d he do it? And could you do the same? Stick around and find out: How Rob went from President of sales to copywriter and how he leveraged his skills. The struggles of abruptly moving your family overseas. How he used Upwork to start copywriting and became a sought-after copywriter. Standing out on a platform like Upwork and becoming the go-to choice. Are 3 minutes of value worth your time? Upwork 101: Setting yourself up for success in 3 steps. Why you need to filter jobs on Upwork and cut out the noise and save time. How to avoid clients who have unrealistic expectations. Did Kira get kicked off Upwork? How to tailor your proposals to each job. The top reasons copywriters should use Upwork to fill their pipeline. Can you build and make connections OFF the platform? Finding the projects you actually want to work on. How to dig up the pain points of your ideal client and create a solution. Rob’s advice on closing sales calls and being a better salesperson. What mistakes are copywriters making in the sales process? How to step into different personas and voices as a copywriter. Why it’s crucial to practice confidence and adjust (and take care of) your mindset. What NOT to do when adding retainers to your client load. Avoiding bad habits and thinking strategically about your business. When to use Upwork and how to keep it from being your only lead source. Thinking about building a team? Do this first. How to get to where you want to go FASTER. Press play or check out the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Rob Perry's Free Upwork Workshop  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 19 Episode 248 Episode 265 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  In the past five years of interviewing successful copywriters on the podcast, I can only remember one who was running a successful business without a website or a social media presence, or an email list for that matter. And perhaps coincidentally, that person, I believe, is the highest-paid copywriter working in the world today. Now, I'm guessing at that assumption, but if he's not the highest-paid, he's definitely in the top five. And you might be thinking, "Well, sure, a copywriter with a good reputation and a steady flow of very high-paying clients can get away without a website or an email list or a social media presence. But what about an almost unknown copywriter working in places like Italy or Chile or Spain without any high-profile clients? In fact, a copywriter who might be getting the bulk of his clients in a place like Upwork?" Our guest on the Copywriter Club Podcast today is copywriter Rob Perry, and he says that it's not only possible to do that, but that he's been doing it successfully for years. You're going to want to stick around for this one and hear how he's done it. But before we get to our interview with Rob Perry, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our combination of coaching, training, and Mastermind for ambitious successful copywriters who are ready to take their businesses from where they are now, maybe somewhere around $5,000 a month and doubling, tripling, or doing even better with it. Or maybe they want to launch a new product or a podcast or create a course or membership or something different in their business, the Think Tank is the place that you can do it.

Liv Steigrad is our guest on the 314th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Liv is a copywriter and brand messaging strategist with a psychology and sociolinguistic background. She helps her clients create powerful brands through her B.R.A.V.E framework, and in this episode, she breaks down how copywriters can use it to build their own brands. Here’s how the conversation went: Does a psychology degree help in being a better copywriter? How to get better at voice of customer research. Making friends as an adult and applying the same techniques in networking. How to prepare and execute things that are terrifying. The one habit you need to build to gain momentum in your business and life. Do you have a definition of success? And is it really true to you? What is a brand story and why does it matter? How to envision big goals and create your ideal day. The balance between a full-time job and a full-time business. What you need to take advantage of while you’re working a full-time job. What is brand strategy and how in-depth does it get? How to make microcopy both functional and filled with brand personality. The B.R.A.V.E framework – How to apply it for your personal brand. Why brand strategy is essential and how to communicate its value to prospects. Where are most copywriters struggling with UX? BE BOTHERED – How this simple phrase will help boost your business. The two business lessons Liv learned from gymnastics. When your mindset wavers… Remember this. Hit play to listen to the episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Liv's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 118 Episode 187 Episode 215 Jenn's website Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  When's the last time you felt bothered by something? Doesn't matter if we're talking about client acquisition or friendship, which we actually talk about a good amount in this episode, because let's face it, friendship is hard as an adult. It pays in multiple ways to be bothered, to speak up, and to show you care for the clients and friends in your business and life. And today's guest knows a lot about not only being a great friend but also about how to be brave in business and life. This branding strategist isn't afraid to terrify herself on a regular basis. This could look like stepping on a stage to do spoken word poetry, or doing a backflip, or traveling in a foreign country alone, or even building a business that's different from everyone else's business. In today's episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, you are in for a treat with brand strategist, gymnast, and all-around brave copywriter Liv Steigrad. Rob and I have had the luck of getting to know Liv in our Think Tank Mastermind and every time I spend time with her, I feel inspired to be more brave in my own business and life. Stay tuned because you won't want to miss this conversation. All right, so today I have a special co-host. I'm really excited to chat through this episode with Jenn Jouhseik, a personality-driven copywriter, and brand storyteller, and an incredible email copywriter as well. I know we don't want to give you three titles Jenn, but I feel like I have to mention email because you are a prolific email writer as well. So Jenn, thanks for being with me to talk through this episode. I appreciate it. Jenn Jouhseik:  Of course. So happy to be here. Kira Hug:  All right, so before we start to talk and dissect this conversation, I just want to mention that, of course, the podcast is sponsored by The Think Tank, which is our Mastermind Program. And Jenn, you are a member of The Think Tank. So I'm just going to ask you a question about it. From your experience, what has been the biggest benefit to your business from being in a Ma...

On the 313th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Todd Brown makes an entrance on the show. Todd is an expert marketer with over 15 years of experience and in this episode, you’ll find out how he went from making $8.50 an hour as an overworked employee to creating a sought-after marketing approach other experts utilize in their own direct response marketing campaigns. The conversation goes a little like this: Where Todd got his start in the direct response marketing industry. What he learned about discipline as a bodybuilder and how he carries it into his everyday life and business. The importance of consistency and why it wins every time. His perspective on discipline and how anyone can add it to their toolkit. The double-edged sword of hiring a team. His shift from marketer to entrepreneur and how it changed the game for his business growth. What is marketing really? How to use Todd’s E-5 method for marketing campaigns and to grow a thriving copywriting business. Two ways to bulletproof your copywriting business and NOT become a commodity. The easy way to compete against AI software. Can you create a valuable USP in a saturated market? Why you should interrogate your own processes and how to justify it to your audience. How to be seen as the genius in the room by solving problems. An inside look at (THE) Todd Brown’s life + a handy book recommendation. Business and life lessons he’s taken from fatherhood with two daughters. The only swipe file you’ll need for the rest of your career. Do not hesitate to press play on this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Get Todd's Swipe file Todd's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 24 with Roy Furr Our episode on Roy Furr's podcast Full Transcript:   Rob:  What does it take to become a truly great marketer? How do you learn the skills you need to serve your clients in a way that helps them grow? And when do you step beyond the role of copywriter and take on the title and role of entrepreneur? Our guest for today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is expert marketer Todd Brown. Over the past decade and a half, Todd has become the go-to expert for creating flourishing direct-response businesses. Todd is one of our mentors and we’ve learned a ton from him and his team. And every time we talk, we walk away with ideas and insights to implement in our business. What he shared in this interview will do the same for you. It’s a little longer than our usual, but Todd shared so many good insights. Do not skip this episode. Kira Hug:  So let's kick it off. How did you end up as The Todd Brown? How did you get here? Todd Brown:  I mean, first of all, I don't know if I would say I'm "The" anything. Let me be crystal clear about that. But it’s so interesting. First of all, I knew nothing about marketing or selling. I never liked selling, I was never really good at selling. But I was working for a health club company in central New Jersey, and through good luck, I guess I was promoted in this company. This company, they owned health clubs in New Jersey, that were all about 40,000 square feet, these big facilities, really beautiful architecture. They did something really special back then.  The company was growing very quickly. Actually, an interesting little gem was the owner of the company, I like to say that he was like my Steve Jobs, he was brutal to work for but I learned so much. I don't believe that I would be where I am today, if it wasn't for the experience, seeing how this guy looked at the numbers and was relentless with production and all that. Anyway, what was interesting was that prior to the gym business, he was one of the first people to lease computers.

Jennifer Spivak is our guest for the 312th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jennifer is the CEO and founder of The AdGirls Agency, and she’s helped hundreds of businesses generate millions of dollars on Facebook and Instagram with the use of simple funnels. In this episode, she breaks down her funnel process and how copywriters can implement a low ad-spend approach to lead generation. Here’s how the conversation went: How Jennifer got into the entrepreneurial space and her mission behind her business. Getting out of an abusive relationship and how $1500 saved her life. How she grew her business through organic relationships and virtual door knocking. Why she set up one simple ad to book a call with her and how it turned out. Is it a good idea to turn your business into an agency? When this happens… It’s time to make a business pivot. Her team of 16 and how each position allows for her to step into her visionary role. What she would do differently if she was starting her business over. Her system and process for hiring and how to find out who would be a good fit for your team. Do you need a business partner? Split of equity – what’s that conversation like? Integrator role vs visionary role – what’s the difference and what are each responsible for? What NOT to do in your funnel and how to get chosen as the no-brainer choice. Her 4 messaging buckets to build relationships quickly and effectively. What if you don’t have a large budget for ads? The better follow-up method when someone books a call with you. The benefits of having a simple funnel in place… Call it the easy, lazy marketing approach. Switches and changes you might need to make to step into the visionary role in your business. Struggles of a 7-figure business owner and navigating new businesses. Why you should throw your timeline out the window and do this instead. Don’t wait to listen (or read) this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join the P7 Client Attraction Pipeline The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Jennifer's Forbes article  Jennifer's website Join Million Dollar Agency and use code "copywriterclub" for 25% off. The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 54 Episode 64 Episode 203 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you've been in the marketing world for more than a few days, you've probably heard the idea that you need a funnel. After all, a single funnel that reliably brings the right clients to your business is the difference between feast and famine and working with clients that you love versus working with those who tax your patience and drive you crazy. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Jenn Spivak, the founder of The Ad Girls agency. Jenn's take on creating a great funnel that attracts ideal clients is different from the approach of almost every other expert that we know and, in the second half of this interview, she broke it all down so that you can borrow her approach for your business. Before we share that, Jenn also talked about building her agency, how she hires the various roles on her team and a lot more. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, so stick around because this one has dozens of insights that are going to help you in your own business. Kira Hug:  Before we jump into our interview with Jenn, this podcast is sponsored by the P7 Client Attraction Pipeline. If you haven't heard about it and you have no idea what's going on with P7, there's still one day to jump inside before we officially start this intensive on Thursday, and if you're like, "I don't know what this is. What's P7? What does this mean?" we'll give you an idea of what it's all about. After talking to hundreds of copywriters over the last five years,

On the 311th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Peta O’Brien-Day joins the show to discuss… Politics. But not in the way you’d imagine. Peta is a copywriter and messaging strategist who educates her audience on how to tread in delicate territory by leading with empathy in marketing their efforts. Here’s how the conversation goes: Her background in social work and learning how to empathize with teenagers by building relationships. What’s the secret? Working in mentally challenging conditions and the toll it can take. Becoming a widow and transitioning into many different careers. Starting a blog about starting over and getting hired by parent-based companies. Beginning on Upwork and optimizing her profile to appear first in the search bar. How to communicate empathy with skeptical audiences as a business owner. Never say these two things when someone is grieving — take notes. How she upleveled her skills before cold pitching and landing a company who needed email copy. How she went from $500/mo to consistent $4-$5k months. The importance of being strategic about being more visible and how to do it. How she found what truly lit her and began attracting more ideal clients. Why she has a large ecosystem of where she acquires leads. Her framework for writing values and molding them into your message (clear as day!) What tools we can use when having difficult conversations. Why it’s important to keep our perspectives open. Tune into the episode by hitting that play button or reading the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: P7 Workshop – get more clients The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Peta's website  Peta's politics membership waitlist  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 63  Episode 274 Full Transcript:

On the 310th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down and chat about what’s new in the world of The Copywriter Club. Catch up and tune into what needs to be on your radar for the last quarter of the year. Here’s what they talk about: The 2022-2023 Definitive Guide to Pricing for copywriters – and how you can apply it to your business. What’s the difference in salary between content writers and copywriters? Do you need a degree to be a copywriter? (new blog alert!) Do copywriters really need a niche? How you can get better at prospecting and scale your income. The number one problem copywriters are facing. What do habits have to do with gaining clients consistently? Are you ready for the Think Tank? What podcasts are Rob and Kira listening to lately? A podcast to improve your storytelling game. Tune into the episode below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: P7 Workshop – get more clients How much do copywriters get paid? Do you need a degree to be a copywriter? Do copywriters need a niche? The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM   Full Transcript:

Melissa Harstine is our guest for the 309th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Melissa is a Customer Research Strategist who helps her clients pull out the best insights for her clients, so they can increase their reach and results. In this episode, Melissa gives us a breakdown of how we can all increase our customer research skills and why they matter in the first place. Check it out below: Melissa’s beginnings as a journalist at a small nonprofit for the elderly and how she was able to connect with her target audience. Writing for a demographic much different than your own – how’s it happen? Why she decided to hone in on a niche and how it worked out for her. How to connect with potential clients in your local business networking groups. Her advice on asking better questions during the research phase. Why you need to lead with empathy and how to respond to people’s demeanor and tone. The specific questions she asks clients to pull the best details and information for a project. How she packages research and presents it to prospective clients. The key to communicating value and knowing your target market. Working with well-known leaders in the industry through building relationships. Finding dream clients once you actually know what you’re looking for. How to turn research into strategy. Her process for pulling out the best pieces of customer research. Why it’s important to stop overbooking yourself and what to avoid. Questions you *probably* shouldn’t ask. How she presents the research report to her clients and helps them apply and implement in real time. Should you position yourself as a “thought partner?” Resources you can use to become a better researcher. How The Copywriter Accelerator helped her grow her business. How to add more value for your clients. Tune into the episode by hitting play or reading the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Melissa's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 12 Episode 28 Episode 154 The TCC Shop  Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  Customer research is one of those things all copywriters need to do in order to truly connect with the audiences we write for, but not all of us like doing it, and some clients hate paying for it. Doing it well can be a bit of a challenge. Today's guest on the podcast is messaging strategist and copywriter, Melissa Harstine. She talked about how she went from a copywriter without a niche to specializing in customer research for a variety of clients, including other copywriters. As we talked, she shared her favorite interview questions, ideas for selling research to clients, and how she turns her research data into a strategy her clients can execute on. It's a great interview you won't want to miss. Rob Marsh:  But first, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Underground. That's the membership for ambitious and growing copywriters. As a member, you have access to copywriting and business training, group coaching calls, copy critiques, our bimonthly newsletter, and a lot more, all designed to help you grow your business. And if you join now, as in the week that we're releasing this podcast, you not only get your first month for just $17, which is a screaming deal, but you'll also get a hard copy of our 24-page Copywriter's Definitive Guide to Pricing, which includes data about what copywriters of all experience levels are charging for 22 different project types, as well as things like the six figure niches and so much more. So go to Thecopywriterunderground.com to join now. Kira Hug:  And if you want to get your first month for just $17, like Rob said, use the promo code, TRY IT, that's all caps, TRY IT, and that will get you in for $17 for your firs...