The Copywriter Club Podcast

Brian Kurtz, an expert in advertising and copywriting, shares valuable insights in this episode. He discusses gaining rights to Breakthrough Advertising, creating upsells and bonuses for added value, and the relevance of a book from the 60s in today's marketing arena. He also explores the reality of book launches, how to improve relationship building, and the power of giving without expecting anything in return. A must-listen conversation for aspiring copywriters and marketers.

On the 323rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Sara Rosinsky joins the show. Sara’s initial career plan was to be a stand-up comedian, but ultimately she decided to focus on her very enjoyable day job in a Boston advertising agency, writing copy. Sara is also the author of Unflubbify Your Writing: Bite-Sized Lessons to Improve Your Spelling, Punctuation, and Grammar, a book intended to help people avoid making common mistakes in English. Sara’s career spans from agency life, to in-house, and freelance copywriting, so you’re not going to want to miss all the insight she shares. Here’s how it all goes down: How Sara landed her first agency job that lasted over 10 years. The creative process at an agency and being able to learn everything on the job. How to become more confident in the words you write. Why you need to have passion for all of your ideas even when they don’t make it out. What’s the real story behind working in-house? Is it a good idea to go rogue and start freelancing? Which route is for you? How her two freelance endeavors are different. To niche or not to niche. Why she decided to get consistent on LinkedIn and how she built an audience who wanted to work with her. How to create a sales force for free. Packaging deliverables for out-of-state projects – what’s the best route? Her approach to LinkedIn and how she comes up with content ideas. Sara’s mantra for copywriters. How she makes many things work at one time. What can you make happen in 27 minutes? Her book writing process and why she decided to write a book. The most common mistakes people make when writing and speaking. How to channel creativity outside of work. Listen to the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Sara's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 4 Episode 6 Episode 282 Gin's website  Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:   A few weeks ago, I wrote an email to all of the people on The Copywriter Club list that included some crazy math about skill compounding. Because I know a lot of copywriters say they don't like math, I added the phrase, "Bear with me," to my email as I explained how it worked. Only I wrote B-A-R-E instead of the correct form of the word, B-E-A-R. What's worse is that I realized my mistake and I meant to correct it, but before I could, I had to run out, pick up my daughter from school. By the time I got back, I forgot. I hit send with my mistake in place. Fortunately, dozens of you caught my mistake and wrote back to point it out, which I really do appreciate, by the way. One of those kind correctors was our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, copywriter and etymologist, Sara Rosinsky. When she responded to my mistake, she offered to come on the podcast and clarify this beastly language that we all speak and make it fun and memorable. We're thrilled to have Sara on the show today to talk about her business and some of the stickiest language problems that we all deal with as copywriters. But before we get to our interview, let me introduce my co-host for the week, copywriter Gin Walker, who writes for educators and online experts. She helps them connect with their audiences. Welcome back to the podcast, Gin. Gin Walker:   Hey, Rob, thank you so much. It's so awesome to be here. I'm especially pleased to be here for this episode actually thinking about Sara's fascination with grammar and punctuation and so on, because I spent a good two decades of my life as an editor. And so this is kind of my bag as well. I'm particularly pleased to be here. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, that's partly why I thought of you- Gin Walker:   Oh,

Martha Barnard-Rae joins the show for the 322nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Martha is a copywriter and TEDx speaker who opens up the conversation about how getting to know yourself makes you a better business owner. After an ADHD diagnosis, she’s learned to put a different lens on her business and lean into tools and resources that work for her, and let go of what doesn’t. This episode reframes what we understand about ADHD and self-discovery and it’s one you won’t want to miss. How she ended up an English teacher in the most isolated city in the world. Finding a mentor and providing equal value to each other. Why her business partnership ended and how she ended it. How she stumbled into a diagnosis of ADHD and how it’s affected her business. The importance of learning about yourself and tools you can utilize. Why you need to show yourself compassion. How she became a TEDx speaker and how she continues to seek opportunities. The time management struggle… How to manage your time. How taking a break when you need one can save you and your business. Why you need to have an honest conversation with yourself. How to stay in your lane and focus on things you love. Do you have the right systems in place when things go wrong? Smash that play button or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Martha's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Masha's website   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Building a successful copywriting business is a challenge even when everything is running smoothly. But that almost never happens as most listeners would know. Several of our guests on the podcast in the past year started their business during the pandemic and worked really hard to overcome the challenges that presented. But there are other challenges to face down things like difficult clients growing your skills and some copywriters even have challenges, like things like ADHD. Today's guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast is Martha Barnard-Rae and she opened up about what it's like to run and grow a copywriting business with ADHD. And if you struggled with focus or lack of attention, you may want to stick around for this one. And even if you haven't, there's a lot of really good advice that she offers that applies to all copywriter businesses. And now let me remind you that this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. That's our program that helps copywriters, content creators, and other marketers lay a solid foundation for their business. If you are already a good writer, you're already good at the thing that you do, but you're still struggling to build a business that supports you, the Copywriter Accelerator is the program that can help you get over the hump from thinking about your business as a CEO instead of as a writer or a service provider to strategies for getting yourself out in front of the right clients, building a great brand, creating packages that people want to buy the Accelerator will help you set up your business for success in the coming year and beyond. Go to the copywriteraccelerator.com now to join the waitlist so that you get notified as soon as we open up and we will link to that in the show notes just in case you are driving or otherwise occupied and can't look that up right now. And before we get to our interview, let me introduce my co-host today. It's Masha Koyen. Masha is a copywriter and strategist for interior designers and builders. She's a member of the Copywriter Think Tank and a former Accelerator member. Masha, welcome. Thanks for being here. Masha Koyen:  Thanks so much for having me Rob. And thanks for the introduction and I'm so honored to be here.

Mariam Vossough is our guest on the 321st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mariam is a copywriter and scriptwriter who is breaking into TikTok as a means to connect with her ideal client: Gen X women. The insights she shares will not only help you become a better writer but just might give you the courage to give TikTok a shot. Here’s what we talk about: Mariam’s start in the cutting room and how she became in charge of the entire story office. Her transition to children’s author after becoming a mother. Are children’s book writers cooler than copywriters? Self-publishing vs. finding an agent – which route should you take? Why copywriting is the best career for never-ending learners. How she stumbled across copywriting and why she joined The Copywriter Accelerator. What’s the process for turning a mediocre story into great content? How copy structure is an art form and why it can change the entire dynamic of the reader’s experience. Why your ego has no place in the editing room. How Mariam tears apart copy and creates a better end product. The day-to-day of being on a writing team and writing stories for episodes. How her scriptwriting career made her fearless and develop a thick skin. How to create better open loops and cliffhangers. When she knew she was ready to transition her career. What her business looks like today and why it took her longer to niche down. How she discovered her niche and what helped her get there. Why marketers need to pay more attention to gen X women and why they’re being ignored in the first place. Showing up on TikTok – what works and who should use it? 5 steps to getting started on TikTok TODAY. How she breaks down her content pillars on social media. Creating content on TikTok without dancing. Play this episode for immediate inspiration. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Connect with Mariam on TikTok and Linkedin  Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Jenn Prochaska's episode  Episode 75 Episode 177 Episode 276 Jenn's TikTok Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  Niching down, owning your personal brand and showing up as your wild self on social media often feels like a huge obstacle for copywriters like us. But as business owners, it's kind of unavoidable, especially early on in our business when we don't have a team. The good news is we control how we niche, how we brand ourselves, and how we show up in the world. And our guest on this week's podcast is the perfect example of a writer who's not only taken control over her brand identity, but who has also built a business that provides meaning to her. And she's done it in her own way with a brilliant sense of humor and grace. Mariam Vossough is a copywriter, screenwriter, and TikTok nerd. And after this episode, you just might rethink how you show up on social media and you just might find yourself creating a TikTok account. I know she's almost convinced me, like not quite, but almost, so close. And before we jump into the interview, I want to introduce my lovely co-host this week who is feeling a little under the weather, and I appreciate her being here. So welcome back to the show, Jenn Prochaska, who is a brand messaging strategist, writer, also a guest on episode 307, which is one of my favorite episodes where we talked about overcoming addiction, scaling a business, parenthood. We went deep and Jenn was so transparent and real throughout the entire conversation. If you haven't listened to it, you've got to listen to it. So Jenn, thanks for coming back, especially when you're not feeling so great. Jenn Prochaska:  Yeah, thanks Kira. Yeah, I'm keeping it real. I'm a little congested,

On the 320th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down to debrief 2022. What worked? What didn’t? And what’s coming up in the month of December and into the new year? As you begin to reflect on the past year and plan for the next, you’ll find advice and book recommendations to guide you into a successful 2023. Here’s how the episode breaks down: Why you need to join the Strategic Growth Plan challenge TODAY. The difference between how Rob and Kira change their behavior. Trying out a different email style… Masterclasses and diary entries? Is Kira ready to move again? Early-bird for Accelerator is opening when?! CEO retreats – do you need them in your life? Why roles can change when your business grows. How stepping into a leadership role can help your business. Productivity and time management book recommendations for 2023. Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Accelerator Waitlist  Join the 5-Day Challenge  The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Okay, so welcome everyone to the Copywriter Club Podcast. This is our 10th episode since the last time that Kira and I were together and just chatting about what's going on in our lives and our business and the things that we've got coming up that we're excited about. And so as we like to do, we're jumping back in to give you another update on what's happening so that you know what to look forward to from the Copywriter Club. Kira Hug:  Yeah. And we thought it would be fun to reflect, as many of us are reflecting at this time of year on what has happened over this past year, good and bad so that we can be more intentional as we move into the new year. Rob Marsh:  Every time we talk about what we've done, Kira, I feel like your list is always so long because you always move, you have a new kid, you do all these amazing things and I'm like, "Huh, I wonder what I did this year." I got to come up with something while you're talking. Kira Hug:  I think you've done many things you just didn't have quite as much time to prep as I did. So I had lots of time to think about everything that happened this past year. So we're going to share again, just like some wins and struggles, personal, and professional from the two of us. And then we are going to talk about what's happening this week in the Copywriter Club, what's happening next month, this month. So we'll try to stay on track and stay focused. I think focus might be the theme for today's... I was going to say today's interview, today's conversation - Rob Marsh:  Episode. Yeah. And if you are used to the longer episodes and you were looking forward to that, we hate to disappoint you. And if you think that other episodes are too long, this one might be right up your alley because it will probably be a bit shorter. Kira Hug:  Yeah, because let's be transparent, it's Friday; it's my end of day. Not quite your end of day, but it's Friday. So we're going to keep this short and sweet. Rob Marsh:  Yes. So Kira, why don't you kick us off. Let's talk about some of the stuff, the wins that you've had. And since we're really talking about end-of-year reflection, we'll go into that a bit more later. Yeah. What's happened this year that's been exciting for you? Kira Hug:  All right. So I do have my lengthy list in front of me. I'm going to try to just highlight a couple. Like you said, I move frequently. So yeah, moving was a big win. Moving is hard. I hope to never move again, ever. So that was a big deal. And it's also rewarding because I really like where I live now and I don't want to leave Maine anytime soon. So I think that's a win. Rob Marsh:  Yeah,

Sue Bowness is our guest on the 319th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sue is a content writer and professor who helps her clients and students tell better stories through content. In this episode, she shares her insights on the content writing industry and how it’s changed over her two-decade long freelance career. Tune in to find out: The real difference between being a business owner vs being an employee. The mindset reframe you need to take on when you decide to start your own business. Copywriting vs content writing… Are they the same? What is the true value of content writing and how do you position it to clients? How much can you actually charge for ONE blog post? Are you stuck on finding a niche? Try this. How can you make a boring topic tolerable to read? What does it take to run a profitable business for two decades? How to navigate trends and changes to your industry. How to be more productive as a full-time business owner? Creating multiple income streams to fulfill different passions. How joining the Think Tank helped her business and the power of being surrounded by high-level ambition. Are you writing your business emails the wrong way? Do you need a college degree to be a content writer? The skills that crossover with degrees and other business experience. Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Sue's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM James Turner's episode (79) Episode 227 Episode 244   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  We talk a lot about copy on this podcast. I mean, it's in the name, The Copywriter Club Podcast. So over the past few years, we've spent hours talking about persuasion, and sales, and calls to action, and dozens of other copywriting strategies and tactics. We don't often talk about content, although the last couple of episodes we have talked about content, but it is a really big part of the work that many copywriters do. So today's guest on the podcast is content writer and strategist Sue Bowness. We asked Sue why more copywriters should take on content projects. We also talked with her about the things that she's done that had the biggest impact on her business, how disciplined she is with her schedule, and a lot more. So stick around to hear what she had to share with us. Before we do all of that though, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Underground. We recently rebuilt the entire back end of the underground to make it easier to find the training and resources that members of the underground have access to. Everything from creating the perfect proposal, which is one of the trainings in the Underground, to running a successful sales call, which is another training that's in there, to more than 40 in-depth newsletters on topics like persuasion, overcoming objections, managing your time, getting more done. I'm barely scratching the surface here. There are monthly coaching calls, weekly copy critiques, and a fantastic group of supportive copywriters in our exclusive Facebook group. Check it all out at thecopywriterunderground.com. And one more thing before we get to our interview with Sue. I feel like I'm going on and on here, but I need to introduce my guest host for the day, James Turner. James is a conversion copywriter, marketing collaborator who's worked in SaaS, tech, and education and e-commerce and about, I don't know, 50 other niches. I'm going to ask him about that in just a second. Once more, James is a friend going back six or seven years. At parties, I've called him my wingman as he introduces me around. He's a bit of an extrovert, which is an exception around copywriters. Welcome back to the show, James.

Simon De Brito is our guest on the 318th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Simon is a Marketing Automation Specialist who creates inbound marketing strategies in order to turn prospects into customers. Not only does this episode give you the inside scoop on inbound marketing but just how different buyers are in different parts of the world. Tune into the episode to find out: What is inbound marketing and what does a Marketing Automation Specialist even do? How the different stages of awareness helps create conversion-worthy content. What’s the difference between B2B and B2C buyers? Why you can’t just throw content out for the sake of content. Scoring systems – what are they and what does it do for business? What mistakes are marketers making in their inbound marketing efforts? Which free tools translate for smaller businesses? SEO – does YOUR business need it? Why you need to STOP solving everyone’s problems. How to save time, stretch your content, and drive more eyes on your content. The future of inbound marketing. Marketing differences between Europe and the U.S. How understanding cultural differences will give you an edge in your marketing efforts. Check out the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Simon's LinkedIn  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 183 Episode 242 Episode 256 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Let's talk a little bit about marketing automation. So as copywriters, we have the opportunity to work with a lot of different tools. Often we simply take care of the copy and then we hand over a copy document and let the client worry about getting into the right tools, whether that's their email service provider or an automated social media content posting tool, or maybe even something more robust like Marketo or HubSpot. But other copywriters are taking the time to learn the ins and outs of these kinds of tools in order to bring greater expertise and strategic thinking to the table for their clients. They're solving even bigger problems, which can be a pretty compelling competitive advantage. Our guest for today's episode of the Copywriter Club podcast is marketing automation specialist Simon De Brito, and he shared a bit about how mastering these tools can make you a better marketer, whether you do it for your clients or for your own business. But before we get to the interview with Simon, let me first introduce my guest host for the day. He's been on the podcast as an interview guest himself several different times. He's been a guest host once before, and he's the person who introduced me to Goo Goo Clusters and started my summer downfall with sugar. It's Justin Blackman. Hey, Justin. Justin Blackman:  I will happily take the blame for the Goo Goo Clusters. They are amazing. That was my favorite part of the Nashville event. Literally, that was the first thing I thought of when you guys said that you were going there. Rob Marsh:  Yeah, Goo Goo Clusters, I ate three bags of them. I'm glad they don't sell them here. At least you have to really go looking for them. And yeah, it knocked me off of my no-sugar bandwagon, which I'm back on. No Goo Goo Clusters on the desk today. But yeah, they're either the very most delicious thing in the world or the most evil thing in the world, or maybe both. Justin Blackman:  I'm sure that there's a marketing lesson in there about scarcity and urgency of, "Oh, I'm going down the airplane. I need to get one more bag because I'm not going to be able to get it anywhere else." Yeah, it's amazing. Every now and again, I'm here in Georgia. Every now and again, I'll stumble on a gas station near the border by Tennessee that will have it in Georgia and it'll feel like contraband.

Tori Autumn is our guest for the 317th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Tori is an email strategist and copywriter who helps coaches and course creators grow their businesses through fervent messaging. In this episode, she spills how she's quickly grown her copywriting business and what she's had to shed to make it happen. Here's what you'll find: How Tori went from broadcast journalism to self-love coaching to copywriting. What to do when jobs don’t go the way you planned them to. The balance between nonprofit work and owning a copywriting business – practical tips for pursuing multiple passions. How she built her business to $20k months in a matter of a year. Why she invests her time in networking and the benefits it's given her business. The REAL benefits of 5-figure months. How The Accelerator and Think Tank helped her business grow and flourish. How to shift your mindset as you’re growing your business. Copywriting vs. strategy – what’s the difference and how will it help you position yourself as the expert? How she went from writing email sequences in a couple of weeks to a couple of days. Why you need to let go of toxic clients for yourself and for their benefit. Choices and decisions. Which one is more powerful? Should we have seasons for connection calls? Referral systems – are they a good idea? The mistakes marketers are making today and how to solve them. How to begin building extra streams of income. Tune into the episode by pressing play or reading the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Tori's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 184 Episode 261 Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  You know how most copywriters jump into copywriting as a side hustle while working their full-time job? And they can't wait to build up the business enough to ditch their 9 to 5 and focus 100% on their copywriting business. While today's guest for the 317th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast isn't the type of copywriter to follow the traditional path. That's right. Tori Autumn, an email strategist and copywriter, has gone from zero to achieving the coveted 20K a month by shedding toxic clients, seasonal networking, launching new products, specifically templates, and balancing a full-time job with a growing copywriting business. And the best part, she's done it all over the last year. Here's Tori's story and all the lessons learned along the way. You don't want to miss this episode. But before we get into our interview, let me introduce my very, very special co-host this week. It's me. So you are stuck with me, just me. This week I decided to hijack the show and give Rob the boot. So here we are. Feels a little strange without a co-host, but we'll make do. So first up, today's episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank Mastermind. So why should you join this Mastermind this month? I mean, you could join any mastermind, and you could join any month, so why this one right now? Well, we have a team of coaches in this mastermind, so not only do you have access to Rob and me to provide feedback, strategic direction, private coaching as you move through your business and achieve your goals, but you also have access to a team of coaches. So you have access to a mindset coach, a systems and growth coach, and our newest coach that you have access to when you join the Think Tank is a visibility coach. Those are three core areas that we know copywriters struggle with the most, so we wanted to bring in coaches who have specialized in those areas to help the copywriters in our Mastermind. So again, you don't just have access to Rob, to me, although you'll get more of us than you probably even want in your business,

We’ve invited Kirsty Fanton back on the show for the 316th episode! Kirsty is an ex-psychotherapist turned launch copywriter and on top of running a thriving copywriting business, she’s also a new parent. Her expertise in the psychotherapy world makes her the best person to chat boundaries around not just navigating parenthood and business, but creating better boundaries for ourselves as a whole. Here’s what you’ll find in the conversation: How Kirsty’s business has changed since our first interview with her. How TCC programs helped her business reach 6-figures and introduced her to an incredible network. The shift her business made since having a baby. Preparing for maternity leave and how creating a passive stream of income helped her business. The process to create an evergreen funnel. How to step back and look at your business from a strategic perspective. How she built a business that worked around her life when her time was so out of her control. The tools she gained from being a licensed psychotherapist and how they can help you practice belief work. Are you holding on to this limiting mindset belief? The fine line of teetering two sides of business – how to avoid burnout. Why you don’t need to rely on having a large audience and how to make money from a small following. How to create an ecosystem of offers that supports your clients in all directions. What surprised her most about maternity leave and having a baby. Advice on how to implement boundaries from the expert and why they’re critical to your business (and life). Setting aside time for the big picture visions in business – where does it fit in? How to increase your reach and grow your email list. What to look out for when you’re trying to find a partner to collaborate with. The expectations vs. reality of parenthood. Check out the episode below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Kirsty's free workshop The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Kirsty's first episode 106 Episode 268 Brandon's podcast Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  If you are planning on taking a sabbatical for any period of time, whether it's for maternity leave, paternity leave, or any type of leave away from the business, this is a conversation you won't want to miss. I knew I had to talk to Kirsty Fanton, our guest for the 316th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast about her experience planning for and working through maternity leave after the arrival of her little one, Ollie. Kirsty and I had our babies roughly around the same time, give or take a few months. And it wasn't the easiest of times to bring a child into this world. I mean, is it ever an easy time? No. Kirsty evolved her business during this time, despite the harsh reality of caring for a baby during a strict lockdown in Sydney. This entire conversation is a candid one about what worked, what didn't work, and how we can all continue to grow our businesses in new ways as our lives dramatically change. You won't want to miss it. Okay, So today I have a special co-host. I am so excited to have Brandon Burton here. If you don't know Brandon already, Brandon's a part of our TCC team, has been in the community, growing the community over the past few years. You probably already know him, he's been on the podcast before, but in case you don't, he is a brand voice strategist for Introverted Experts, a podcaster, a new podcaster with a new podcast, which is very exciting, a father to a new baby, Zion. So part of the reason, Brandon, I'm so excited to have you here, is because we're going to talk a lot about babies and maternity leaves and adjusting to business and work after having a baby. And so I'm really glad that you can add to this conversation.

Rob Perry is our guest on the 315th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob Perry is a SaaS and B2B copywriter and consultant who has built a solid pipeline of clients without using a website, email list, or high-profile social media presence. In fact, he grew his business using a platform you may be familiar with: Upwork. How’d he do it? And could you do the same? Stick around and find out: How Rob went from President of sales to copywriter and how he leveraged his skills. The struggles of abruptly moving your family overseas. How he used Upwork to start copywriting and became a sought-after copywriter. Standing out on a platform like Upwork and becoming the go-to choice. Are 3 minutes of value worth your time? Upwork 101: Setting yourself up for success in 3 steps. Why you need to filter jobs on Upwork and cut out the noise and save time. How to avoid clients who have unrealistic expectations. Did Kira get kicked off Upwork? How to tailor your proposals to each job. The top reasons copywriters should use Upwork to fill their pipeline. Can you build and make connections OFF the platform? Finding the projects you actually want to work on. How to dig up the pain points of your ideal client and create a solution. Rob’s advice on closing sales calls and being a better salesperson. What mistakes are copywriters making in the sales process? How to step into different personas and voices as a copywriter. Why it’s crucial to practice confidence and adjust (and take care of) your mindset. What NOT to do when adding retainers to your client load. Avoiding bad habits and thinking strategically about your business. When to use Upwork and how to keep it from being your only lead source. Thinking about building a team? Do this first. How to get to where you want to go FASTER. Press play or check out the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Rob Perry's Free Upwork Workshop  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 19 Episode 248 Episode 265 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  In the past five years of interviewing successful copywriters on the podcast, I can only remember one who was running a successful business without a website or a social media presence, or an email list for that matter. And perhaps coincidentally, that person, I believe, is the highest-paid copywriter working in the world today. Now, I'm guessing at that assumption, but if he's not the highest-paid, he's definitely in the top five. And you might be thinking, "Well, sure, a copywriter with a good reputation and a steady flow of very high-paying clients can get away without a website or an email list or a social media presence. But what about an almost unknown copywriter working in places like Italy or Chile or Spain without any high-profile clients? In fact, a copywriter who might be getting the bulk of his clients in a place like Upwork?" Our guest on the Copywriter Club Podcast today is copywriter Rob Perry, and he says that it's not only possible to do that, but that he's been doing it successfully for years. You're going to want to stick around for this one and hear how he's done it. But before we get to our interview with Rob Perry, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our combination of coaching, training, and Mastermind for ambitious successful copywriters who are ready to take their businesses from where they are now, maybe somewhere around $5,000 a month and doubling, tripling, or doing even better with it. Or maybe they want to launch a new product or a podcast or create a course or membership or something different in their business, the Think Tank is the place that you can do it.