
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Latest episodes

17 snips
Jul 17, 2025 • 21min
Testing Everything: How HashiCorp Rewrote the People Playbook
In a riveting discussion, Christine Centa, Chief People Officer at HashiCorp, delves into innovative HR practices. She shares insights on compensation testing and equity, revealing how real-world trials impact salary structures. The conversation shifts to scaling remote culture, stressing the importance of intentional communication for team cohesion. Christine also tackles the challenges of AI adoption in HR, highlighting the need for transparency and the evolving skills required to leverage technology effectively. This is a masterclass in modern people operations!

Jul 15, 2025 • 31min
Unpacking the Windsurf-Google Deal with Carta's Peter Walker
Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, dissects the controversial Windsurf deal where Google left non-founder employees without equity payouts. He highlights the growing trend of AI-driven acquisitions that prioritize top talent, often at the cost of broader employee equity. The conversation dives into the ethical dilemmas tech companies face, the disconnect between executive compensation and that of average workers, and the need for transparency in equity negotiations. Walker urges a reevaluation of startup dynamics in this new landscape.

16 snips
Jul 10, 2025 • 16min
The 5 Layers of Business Literacy Every HR Leader Must Master, with Jeff Diana, former CPO of Calendly
Jeff Diana, former CPO of Calendly and a seasoned investor/entrepreneur, joins the conversation to tackle how HR leaders can elevate their influence. He emphasizes the need for HR professionals to master business literacy, going beyond traditional practices. Jeff discusses transforming HR with AI tools like MetaView to streamline processes and enhance strategic integration within organizations. He highlights the importance of understanding financial metrics to drive meaningful impact, urging HR to evolve into a crucial business leadership role.

14 snips
Jul 8, 2025 • 14min
Bolt Says They Killed HR, But the Work Doesn’t Go Away
Kelli and Nolan dive into the controversial shift from traditional HR to a PeopleOps model, sparking debates on efficiency versus bureaucracy. They examine whether this change is innovative or just a catchy rebranding. The conversation highlights the delicate balance between fostering a dynamic workplace and ensuring necessary oversight. As the roles in people management evolve, they pose critical questions about the long-term implications of eliminating HR departments. Is this the future of talent management or a risk too great to take?

18 snips
Jul 3, 2025 • 23min
Equity Negotiation: The Ultimate Guide to Not Getting Screwed
Dive into the intricate world of equity negotiation, where understanding fully diluted share counts and 409A valuations is key to making informed choices. Discover the cautionary tales that highlight how crucial it is to clarify equity offers upfront. The conversation expands to include essential tips for executives navigating complex compensation agreements and liquidity clauses. Plus, learn how innovative tools like Planful and Metaview are revolutionizing workforce planning and recruitment, helping teams leverage data more effectively.

8 snips
Jul 1, 2025 • 28min
Why 50% of CEO-HR "Marriages" End in Divorce with Colleen McCreary
Colleen McCreary, a seasoned Chief People Officer, dives into the intriguing world of CEO-HR relationships, discussing why nearly half of these partnerships end in 'divorce.' She shares insights on how traditional interviews often overlook compatibility, suggesting that proactive communication is key. Colleen emphasizes the importance of addressing conflicts early and maintaining emotional intelligence in high-pressure situations. Listeners gain valuable strategies for building authentic connections and reflecting on the lasting impact of their professional relationships.

8 snips
Jun 26, 2025 • 49min
Zapier’s Bold Bet: Every New Hire Must Be AI-Transformational, With CPO Brandon Sammut
Brandon Sammut, Chief People Officer at Zapier, champions AI integration in hiring, making AI fluency mandatory for new employees. He discusses innovative AI tools that streamline workflows and enhance recruitment, such as personalized interview guides and performance tracking systems. Sammut emphasizes the importance of a balanced approach between AI automation and human connection, ensuring a vibrant company culture. He shares insights on how AI can transform employee experiences and support proactive engagement within teams.

11 snips
Jun 24, 2025 • 18min
AI's Impact on Entry-Level Jobs
The podcast dives into the debate about AI's influence on entry-level jobs, questioning whether these roles are vanishing or evolving. It highlights how AI is automating tasks, leading to more responsibility for new hires. Real-world examples, like Coinbase's staffing strategies, showcase the need to invest in emerging talent. The hosts discuss AI tools improving recruitment, while also addressing the challenges of integrating AI in traditional workplaces. The conversation emphasizes the importance of adaptability in a rapidly changing job landscape.

22 snips
Jun 19, 2025 • 32min
The Dirty Secrets of Executive Departures
CJ Gustafson, host of the Run the Numbers podcast and expert CEO/CFO, dives into the often-taboo topic of C-suite executive departures. He discusses the critical aspects of communication and support during terminations, shedding light on severance packages and the intricacies of executive compensation. Gustafson highlights job stability disparities between executives and individual contributors, and critiques equity acceleration practices. This candid conversation reveals the challenges of navigating rapid company growth and maintaining professionalism during transitions.

Jun 17, 2025 • 34min
How To Actually Use AI Agents, With Samy Aumar of Qonto
Samy Aumar, People Systems Excellence Manager at Qonto, shares his expertise on utilizing AI in recruitment with Nolan Church and Siadhal Magos. He reveals how non-coders can create AI agents in just an afternoon, transforming sprawling recruiting tasks into efficient same-day processes. The conversation dives into practical applications like automated interview transcripts and tailored job ads, highlighting time-saving benefits and the importance of a collaborative approach in adopting AI tools within organizations.