“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books
8 snips
Oct 30, 2025 • 33min
Get Inside the Mind of your Team’s Best Interviewer, with Vercel’s Viet Nguyen [from 10X Recruiting]
In this engaging conversation, Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recruiting Operations at Vercel, shares his journey mastering recruiting through a unique five-year tour of duty. He explains how AI can decode the unconscious patterns of top interviewers to enhance hiring success. Viet reveals five key behavioral indicators for interviewer training and discusses innovative tools for automating reference checks and debrief summaries, making the recruiting process more efficient. Tune in for insights that blend tech with the art of hiring!
15 snips
Oct 28, 2025 • 35min
"3000 Applicants in Minutes": Recruiting Now with Jason James, Co-founder of Tezi
Jason James, Co-founder and COO of Tezi, dives into the future of recruiting with a focus on AI. He forecasts the phasing out of recruiting coordinators in five years and elaborates on how his AI agent, Max, can screen 3,000 applicants in mere minutes. Jason discusses the importance of AI bias audits and contrasts human bias, pushing for higher compliance standards. He also shares insights on resume 'riders' from hypergrowth firms and emphasizes outcomes over hours in startup culture. His candid predictions about recruitment automation are both enlightening and thought-provoking.
12 snips
Oct 23, 2025 • 33min
'Intelligence on Tap' At Your Org, with Siadhal Magos, Metaview CEO
In this insightful discussion, Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview, dives into the challenges and opportunities of AI in recruiting. He highlights the 'Trough of Disillusionment' in enterprise AI and showcases Metaview's cutting-edge sourcing tools that blend human judgment with AI capabilities. Siadhal details promptless sourcing, where AI can intuitively generate searches without rigid Boolean constraints. He also emphasizes how the platform democratizes sourcing, allowing non-experts to excel in recruitment. Expect valuable insights on the future of hiring technology!
20 snips
Oct 21, 2025 • 16min
Rethink Your Bonus Program
Kelli and Nolan dissect why traditional bonus programs often stumble in early-stage companies. They highlight the pitfalls of fixed structures that lead to organizational debt and the challenge of changing established norms. The discussion shifts to innovative alternatives like flexible sprint incentives and spontaneous spot bonuses, which can foster motivation and loyalty. They emphasize the importance of agility in rewards to better align with evolving company goals and avoid creating people debt.
8 snips
Oct 14, 2025 • 18min
No Private DMs
Kelli and Nolan dive into the controversial notion of eliminating private Slack messages to foster workplace transparency. They discuss the balance between open communication and the necessity for private conversations, especially for sensitive topics. Kelli emphasizes the toxicity of underground channels, while Nolan highlights potential productivity pitfalls of excessive public messaging. The pair also explore innovative communication methods like audio messages, which could streamline decision-making in fast-paced environments.
15 snips
Oct 9, 2025 • 23min
Fractional Work's Dirty Secret: How to Do a Full-Time Job in 25 Hours - Insights from Sally Thornton, Forshay
Sally Thornton, CEO and founder of Forshay, shares her insights on fractional executive work. She reveals the trust barriers companies face when hiring fractionally and the surprising truth that it often means doing a full-time job in less time. Sally emphasizes the need for strong consulting skills over traditional experience and discusses the evolving market dynamics post-COVID. She also outlines the importance of transparent pricing models and advises candidates to focus on finding the right fit rather than rushing into roles.
12 snips
Oct 7, 2025 • 24min
Building Culture-First Companies: Insights from Culture Amp's CEO, Didier Elzinga
Didier Elzinga, CEO of Culture Amp and co-founder focused on employee experience, dives into building culture-first companies. He emphasizes that growth is the key driver of employee engagement. Didier reveals that trust in leadership matters more than trust in direct management for retention. He discusses the importance of structured reviews to reduce gender gaps and advocates using data to influence leadership perspectives. The conversation also highlights the balance of empathy and accountability as crucial for fostering a thriving workplace culture.
21 snips
Oct 2, 2025 • 28min
Building Elite Teams at Coinbase with L.J. Brock
In a revealing discussion, LJ Brock, the Chief People Officer at Coinbase, shares insights on radical HR practices. He discusses Coinbase's mission-first policy that led to banning political discussions at work, fostering unexpected growth. Also highlighted are talent density standards and the company's refusal to negotiate salaries, designed to attract elite talent. LJ elaborates on innovative hiring methods like work trials and one-year stock grants as strategies to enhance equity and align with market realities.
Sep 30, 2025 • 29min
The H-1B Shakeup: Immigration Program Redesign and Alternative Pathways
Kelli and Nolan dive into the recent H1B visa policy shakeup, discussing its chaotic rollout and the impact on tech hiring. They explore how companies are adapting to this uncertainty with hiring pauses and new strategies like H1B transfers. The conversation shifts to a recap of the Confluent People Team offsite, highlighting spirited discussions on pay equity and the value of diverse viewpoints. They also share a light-hearted fashion roast, contrasting Nolan's polished look with Kelli's casual style, all while emphasizing the benefits of curiosity and disagreement in professional growth.
26 snips
Sep 25, 2025 • 32min
A CPO's First 90 Days
Kelli and Nolan offer invaluable advice for Chief People Officers starting their journey. They discuss three core goals: building trust, achieving quick wins, and establishing a strong brand. The importance of deep executive relationships and ground-level listening is highlighted, along with strategic planning before day one. Tips on communicating effectively, managing expectations, and prioritizing people team hires are essential takeaways. They emphasize the importance of framing HR objectives in business language for better alignment.
