“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books
Dec 11, 2025 • 30min
Why Zapier Requires 100% AI Fluency (And How They Measure It)
Brandon Sammut, Chief Product Officer at Zapier, discusses the vital need for AI fluency among all hires to future-proof careers. He presents Zapier's innovative four-level AI fluency framework, detailing how it enhances HR workflows. Listeners are treated to demos of AI agents that streamline interview preparation and automate performance evidence collection via a Slack-triggered emoji. The future vision of on-demand AI coaching in the workplace sparks engaging insights about employee choice and privacy in adopting new technologies.
8 snips
Dec 9, 2025 • 24min
The VP Who Asked to Be Demoted: A Masterclass in Self-Awareness
Cynthia Bazlamit (Baz) Shrauner, a former HR leader at Meta, shares her journey of self-demotion twice to find fulfillment in her work. She reflects on the chaotic hiring spree during the pandemic, where Meta's workforce surged tenfold, followed by challenging layoffs impacting thousands. Baz emphasizes the pitfalls of ego and comparison in leadership, and explores how DEI efforts evolved from casual groups to complex corporate dynamics. Her insights on prioritizing mental health and creating effective work cultures are thought-provoking and highly relevant.
14 snips
Dec 4, 2025 • 50min
Bryan Power on Exits, Loyalty, and Why Your Goodbye Matters More Than You Think
Bryan Power, an experienced talent and people leader recently departed from Nextdoor, shares insights from his widely-read quitting guide. He emphasizes how exits shape careers and discusses the lack of formal exit practices in companies. Bryan offers strategies for managing resignations gracefully and maintaining relationships afterward. He also touches on the implications of the recent Growth by Design acquisition and the evolving recruiting landscape, particularly the role of AI in shaping future entry-level hiring.
Dec 2, 2025 • 22min
Why L&D Fails (And How to Fix It) with Fidelma Butler
In this discussion, Fidelma Butler, Chief People Officer at Couchbase, shares her insights on modernizing learning and development (L&D). She emphasizes building contextual leadership frameworks and integrating learning into daily workflows. Fidelma tackles the common issue of career ladders becoming mere checkboxes, advocating for transparent, adult-like accountability. She champions peer-led teaching and highlights the importance of addressing both hard and soft skills in coaching senior leaders. Her focus is on turning theoretical learning into practical, engaging experiences.
13 snips
Nov 25, 2025 • 23min
The Post-Acquisition Power Reckoning
Join Adam Weber, former co-founder and executive coach renowned for his insights on leadership and culture. He discusses the power dynamics that emerge post-acquisition and how these shape identity. Adam emphasizes the evolving responsibilities of HR amidst resource constraints and the importance of aligning HR strategy with business goals. He also warns about the decline in leadership development due to automation, advocating for the investment in individual contributors and the necessity for HR to speak the language of business.
5 snips
Nov 20, 2025 • 22min
The HRBP Role Is Broken: Here's How to Fix It
In this insightful discussion, Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR and former senior HR leader at the BBC, critiques the fundamental trust issues plaguing HR. She argues that designing policies for underperformers harms organizational culture and employee motivation. Lucy suggests reimagining the HR business partner role, emphasizing the need for judgment and coaching skills. She champions a human-centered approach to HR that embraces complexity, encourages diverse input, and leverages modern strategies like DEI and AI to enhance workplace dynamics.
15 snips
Nov 18, 2025 • 22min
Why Giving Stock to Everyone Is Harder Than It Sound
Nolan and Kelli dive into the complex debate over equity compensation. They discuss whether stock options should be given to all employees or just senior roles. The moral case for broad ownership is weighed against investor concerns about dilution. The pair also explore the challenges of educating employees on equity and the complications of adjusting for cost-of-labor differences geographically. They highlight the need for clear communication and the importance of defining a company's equity strategy.
Nov 13, 2025 • 25min
The Brutal Truth About Running Layoffs
Nolan and Kelli dive into the challenging world of layoffs, sharing insights on humane treatment and strategic planning. They discuss the importance of clear criteria and communication to maintain trust. Discover the 'Carta Playbook' principles for effective cuts, and learn about offering opt-in severance to empower employees. They emphasize accountability among leaders and the significance of treating people with empathy throughout the process. This conversation highlights crucial strategies for navigating sensitive organizational changes.
18 snips
Nov 11, 2025 • 16min
Ex-Amazon Director's Viral Post Exposes Tech's Broken Employment Contract
Nolan and Kelli dive into a viral LinkedIn post by an ex-Amazon director, unraveling the clash between inflated tech expectations and harsh job market realities. They discuss the decline of true remote flexibility and how rising interest rates and AI shifts have upended hiring dynamics. The hosts highlight the changing employment contract, predicting unrest among displaced tech workers. They emphasize the fading allure of brand-name companies like FAANG and urge listeners to diversify their experiences and adjust their career expectations for the new reality.
16 snips
Nov 6, 2025 • 30min
Snowflake CPO Arnnon Geshuri on Their AI Framework for HR
Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and former Tesla HR leader, shares insights on transforming HR with analytics and AI. He explains his three-pronged AI framework that automates repetitive tasks, augments creative efforts, and keeps crucial human interaction for sensitive conversations. Arnnon emphasizes building a diverse HR team, blending traditional roles with data scientists to drive strategic authority. His rapid prototyping approach encourages innovation and adaptability, making HR a vital player in business performance.
