“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books
Aug 7, 2025 • 23min
The Rise of the Elite Operator with Casey Woo
Casey Woo, founder of Operators Guild and venture capitalist with a background at WeWork, discusses the evolution of elite business operators. He delves into the impact of AI on recruitment, highlighting how tools like MetaView enhance hiring processes. Casey shares valuable lessons from WeWork, emphasizing the importance of efficiency amid rapid growth. He also explores the unique mindset of elite operators, balancing risk and community involvement, while noting their shift towards entrepreneurial roles in today's market.
11 snips
Aug 5, 2025 • 18min
From Windsurf to DeepMind: How Acquisition Deals Really Work
Delve into the aftermath of a controversial acquisition as a former employee reveals the shocking 1% equity payout amidst a $2 billion deal. Explore the tough choices individuals face between lucrative offers and the complexities of compensation and trust in high-stakes environments. Unpack the crucial role of cultural connections in mergers and acquisitions, prioritizing relationships over financial incentives. Plus, examine the impact of social media on corporate accountability and the future of leadership responsibility.
Jul 31, 2025 • 24min
Why DIY Executive Search Fails with Andy Price, Artisanal Ventures
Join Andy Price, a VC at Artisanal Ventures with a sharp focus on executive search, as he reveals the secrets behind successful executive hires. He dissects why many placements fail, emphasizing the importance of understanding company culture and candidate fit. Discover innovative back-channeling strategies and the artisanal approach to hiring that prioritizes ongoing communication. Andy also dives into the critical role of effective onboarding, highlighting how it can make or break an executive's tenure in today's fast-paced landscape.
10 snips
Jul 29, 2025 • 31min
The Astronomer Scandal
The hosts dive into the scandal involving a CEO and CPO caught on a kiss cam at a Coldplay concert. They discuss the hypocrisy in executive leadership and how personal actions can undermine professional credibility. The impact of social media on accountability is examined, highlighting the delicate balance leaders must maintain. Romantic relationships between executives are debated, considering their influence on decision-making. The hosts reflect on the fallout from leadership changes and the vital role of trust in HR amidst such controversies.
Jul 24, 2025 • 40min
How ServiceNow Turned Talent Data Into Competitive Intelligence with Sarah Tilley
In this engaging discussion, Sarah Tilley, the SVP of Global Talent at ServiceNow, shares her extensive experience transforming talent acquisition through AI. She reveals their innovative two-speed strategy, aligning talent acquisition with core business goals while enhancing the quality of hire. Sarah emphasizes the crucial role of AI in revolutionizing recruitment processes, boosting operational efficiency, and fostering a culture of continuous learning. Tune in to discover how ServiceNow is setting new benchmarks in talent market intelligence!
Jul 22, 2025 • 26min
The Real HR Problem: Bitterness, Bad Leadership, and Why Anti-Empathy Actually Works with Ethena CPO Melanie Naranjo
In this enlightening discussion, Melanie Naranjo, CPO of Ethena and a fierce advocate for logic in workplace leadership, dives deep into the perils of empathy-driven management. She challenges toxic executive dynamics and highlights the need for authentic communication in HR. Melanie discusses the burnout faced by HR professionals and the importance of genuine feedback for growth. She also explores how integrating AI can revolutionize recruitment while questioning traditional views on emotional intelligence in leadership roles.
17 snips
Jul 17, 2025 • 21min
Testing Everything: How HashiCorp Rewrote the People Playbook
In a riveting discussion, Christine Centa, Chief People Officer at HashiCorp, delves into innovative HR practices. She shares insights on compensation testing and equity, revealing how real-world trials impact salary structures. The conversation shifts to scaling remote culture, stressing the importance of intentional communication for team cohesion. Christine also tackles the challenges of AI adoption in HR, highlighting the need for transparency and the evolving skills required to leverage technology effectively. This is a masterclass in modern people operations!
Jul 15, 2025 • 31min
Unpacking the Windsurf-Google Deal with Carta's Peter Walker
Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, dissects the controversial Windsurf deal where Google left non-founder employees without equity payouts. He highlights the growing trend of AI-driven acquisitions that prioritize top talent, often at the cost of broader employee equity. The conversation dives into the ethical dilemmas tech companies face, the disconnect between executive compensation and that of average workers, and the need for transparency in equity negotiations. Walker urges a reevaluation of startup dynamics in this new landscape.
16 snips
Jul 10, 2025 • 16min
The 5 Layers of Business Literacy Every HR Leader Must Master, with Jeff Diana, former CPO of Calendly
Jeff Diana, former CPO of Calendly and a seasoned investor/entrepreneur, joins the conversation to tackle how HR leaders can elevate their influence. He emphasizes the need for HR professionals to master business literacy, going beyond traditional practices. Jeff discusses transforming HR with AI tools like MetaView to streamline processes and enhance strategic integration within organizations. He highlights the importance of understanding financial metrics to drive meaningful impact, urging HR to evolve into a crucial business leadership role.
14 snips
Jul 8, 2025 • 14min
Bolt Says They Killed HR, But the Work Doesn’t Go Away
Kelli and Nolan dive into the controversial shift from traditional HR to a PeopleOps model, sparking debates on efficiency versus bureaucracy. They examine whether this change is innovative or just a catchy rebranding. The conversation highlights the delicate balance between fostering a dynamic workplace and ensuring necessary oversight. As the roles in people management evolve, they pose critical questions about the long-term implications of eliminating HR departments. Is this the future of talent management or a risk too great to take?
