“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

Troy Sultan, CEO and founder of Guide, shares his journey from Google to revolutionizing recruitment with AI. He tackles the outdated assumptions of traditional hiring, advocating for speed and transparency. Sultan discusses the importance of empowering candidates with self-service options, transforming their experience. He also emphasizes the cultural shift towards automation in hiring processes and the need for HR leaders to adapt. With insights on improving candidate experiences, Troy invites a rethinking of power dynamics in recruitment.

Kelli and Nolan recap their experience at the recent Sapphire People Leader Retreat focused on the evolving role of CPOs in 2025, covering executive alignment, moral boundaries, burnout prevention, and peer networks. They also share a case of corporate identity theft targeting job candidates, highlighting emerging recruitment security challenges.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:10) The Role of CPO in 2025(02:20) Corporate Deep Fake Fraud Story(03:30) How the Deep Fake Was Discovered(04:00) FBI Involvement & Next Wave of Fraud(05:10) Pelion VC Domain Fraud Case(05:50) Value of Raw Conversations at Retreat(06:10) No One-Size-Fits-All CPO Role(07:00) Executive Alignment Importance(08:30) Sussing Out Cultural Fit(10:10) Moral Boundaries vs. Running Experiments(12:00) Learning from Radical Ideas at Carta(12:30) "Care a Little Less" Philosophy(14:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:14) Avoiding People Leader Burnout(19:20) Building Your Peer Network(21:10) Tactical Work vs. Strategic Leadership(22:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Annie Wickman, Head of People at Character AI and former Googler, shares her unique journey from being the first non-founder at Humu to leading talent strategies at Character AI. She discusses the essential balance between product-market fit and company culture, and how this interplay affects internal dynamics. Annie also dives into her experiences with Google’s strategic deals and offers insights into rebuilding organizational trust. Additionally, she touches on the emotional challenges of leadership in venture capital and maintaining a strong team culture during transitions.

Explore the ethical tightrope that startups walk, where personal values clash with innovative ambition. Hear advice on whether to align with ethically questionable founders or gracefully step away. Delve into the importance of integrity in leadership and the signs of workplace toxicity. Discover insights on building supportive networks amid personal crises. Plus, learn about innovative tools that enhance workforce management, like AI-powered solutions that revolutionize recruitment processes.

Brett Queener, Managing Director at Bonfire Ventures, shares insights on the evolving venture landscape and the impact of AI on software startups. He dives into the challenges of evaluating AI startups amidst the hype and stresses the importance of rapid adaptation. Queener highlights how AI is revolutionizing recruitment, making processes more efficient with tools like MetaView. He also discusses the changing nature of talent needs and the necessity for companies to embrace a mentality of continuous change in today's competitive market.

Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview and an AI pioneer, joins to explore Anthropic's landmark findings on large language models. They discuss how AI doesn't just predict but can plan ahead and process multiple languages at once. The conversation delves into the paradox of powerful AI systems operating without full comprehension of their reasoning, raising safety concerns. Siadhal highlights the crucial role of human collaboration in refining AI through data annotation, shaping the way forward in hiring and technology’s impact on our work.

Arthur Matuszewski, a seasoned leader from Bridgewater, Better.com, and Carrara, dives into the nuances of hiring in this engaging discussion. He highlights the importance of intellectual honesty and how traditional hiring criteria often miss exceptional talent. Matuszewski shares insights on mitigating false negatives and adapting recruitment strategies to unique organizational contexts. He emphasizes the need to evaluate employees based on their actual contributions, steering away from conventional measures like titles, and fostering a culture of exploration and transparency.

Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR, shakes up conventional HR thinking with her bold insights. She critiques outdated policies, championing judgment-based systems that empower employees. The conversation dives into the evolving role of HR business partners, emphasizing trust over compliance. Adams discusses innovative strategies for creating high-performing cultures and the importance of adapting to complex workplace dynamics. Tune in for her take on fostering inclusion and the future of HR in a rapidly changing environment.

The hosts open up about deeply personal experiences caring for ill loved ones, highlighting the challenges of balancing work and trauma. They emphasize the importance of empathy and support systems in the workplace. Listeners gain insights into innovative health benefits and the need for advocacy during personal crises. Additionally, the conversation touches on transforming hiring processes using advanced technology, showcasing how thoughtful solutions can enhance both employee well-being and organizational effectiveness.

In a thrilling tale of corporate espionage, Deel is accused of sending a spy to Rippling to steal secrets, which leads to an elaborate 'honeypot' trap. The hosts delve into how such incidents reflect the shift from private rivalry to public drama via social media. They explore the tangled web of modern workplace ethics and the importance of transparency in an era where unprofessional acts can be quickly exposed. This captivating discourse highlights the evolving complexities of corporate interactions and the role of technology in today's HR landscape.