“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books
5 snips
Nov 20, 2025 • 22min
The HRBP Role Is Broken: Here's How to Fix It
In this insightful discussion, Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR and former senior HR leader at the BBC, critiques the fundamental trust issues plaguing HR. She argues that designing policies for underperformers harms organizational culture and employee motivation. Lucy suggests reimagining the HR business partner role, emphasizing the need for judgment and coaching skills. She champions a human-centered approach to HR that embraces complexity, encourages diverse input, and leverages modern strategies like DEI and AI to enhance workplace dynamics.
15 snips
Nov 18, 2025 • 22min
Why Giving Stock to Everyone Is Harder Than It Sound
Nolan and Kelli dive into the complex debate over equity compensation. They discuss whether stock options should be given to all employees or just senior roles. The moral case for broad ownership is weighed against investor concerns about dilution. The pair also explore the challenges of educating employees on equity and the complications of adjusting for cost-of-labor differences geographically. They highlight the need for clear communication and the importance of defining a company's equity strategy.
Nov 13, 2025 • 25min
The Brutal Truth About Running Layoffs
Nolan and Kelli dive into the challenging world of layoffs, sharing insights on humane treatment and strategic planning. They discuss the importance of clear criteria and communication to maintain trust. Discover the 'Carta Playbook' principles for effective cuts, and learn about offering opt-in severance to empower employees. They emphasize accountability among leaders and the significance of treating people with empathy throughout the process. This conversation highlights crucial strategies for navigating sensitive organizational changes.
9 snips
Nov 11, 2025 • 16min
Ex-Amazon Director's Viral Post Exposes Tech's Broken Employment Contract
Nolan and Kelli dive into a viral LinkedIn post by an ex-Amazon director, unraveling the clash between inflated tech expectations and harsh job market realities. They discuss the decline of true remote flexibility and how rising interest rates and AI shifts have upended hiring dynamics. The hosts highlight the changing employment contract, predicting unrest among displaced tech workers. They emphasize the fading allure of brand-name companies like FAANG and urge listeners to diversify their experiences and adjust their career expectations for the new reality.
16 snips
Nov 6, 2025 • 30min
Snowflake CPO Arnnon Geshuri on Their AI Framework for HR
Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and former Tesla HR leader, shares insights on transforming HR with analytics and AI. He explains his three-pronged AI framework that automates repetitive tasks, augments creative efforts, and keeps crucial human interaction for sensitive conversations. Arnnon emphasizes building a diverse HR team, blending traditional roles with data scientists to drive strategic authority. His rapid prototyping approach encourages innovation and adaptability, making HR a vital player in business performance.
15 snips
Nov 4, 2025 • 22min
Molly Graham on Founder Depression and Executive Team Dynamics
Molly Graham, a seasoned Silicon Valley operator and early contributor to Google and Facebook, shares insights on founder depression and executive dynamics. She discusses how metaphors like 'Bob the Monster' help navigate workplace emotions and the loneliness of startup life. Molly emphasizes the need for business-first leaders who focus on unit economics, along with the importance of relationships among executives. She also reveals her unique hiring philosophy and the significance of aligning candidate motivations with company culture.
12 snips
Oct 30, 2025 • 33min
Get Inside the Mind of your Team’s Best Interviewer, with Vercel’s Viet Nguyen [from 10X Recruiting]
In this engaging conversation, Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recruiting Operations at Vercel, shares his journey mastering recruiting through a unique five-year tour of duty. He explains how AI can decode the unconscious patterns of top interviewers to enhance hiring success. Viet reveals five key behavioral indicators for interviewer training and discusses innovative tools for automating reference checks and debrief summaries, making the recruiting process more efficient. Tune in for insights that blend tech with the art of hiring!
15 snips
Oct 28, 2025 • 35min
"3000 Applicants in Minutes": Recruiting Now with Jason James, Co-founder of Tezi
Jason James, Co-founder and COO of Tezi, dives into the future of recruiting with a focus on AI. He forecasts the phasing out of recruiting coordinators in five years and elaborates on how his AI agent, Max, can screen 3,000 applicants in mere minutes. Jason discusses the importance of AI bias audits and contrasts human bias, pushing for higher compliance standards. He also shares insights on resume 'riders' from hypergrowth firms and emphasizes outcomes over hours in startup culture. His candid predictions about recruitment automation are both enlightening and thought-provoking.
12 snips
Oct 23, 2025 • 33min
'Intelligence on Tap' At Your Org, with Siadhal Magos, Metaview CEO
In this insightful discussion, Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview, dives into the challenges and opportunities of AI in recruiting. He highlights the 'Trough of Disillusionment' in enterprise AI and showcases Metaview's cutting-edge sourcing tools that blend human judgment with AI capabilities. Siadhal details promptless sourcing, where AI can intuitively generate searches without rigid Boolean constraints. He also emphasizes how the platform democratizes sourcing, allowing non-experts to excel in recruitment. Expect valuable insights on the future of hiring technology!
20 snips
Oct 21, 2025 • 16min
Rethink Your Bonus Program
Kelli and Nolan dissect why traditional bonus programs often stumble in early-stage companies. They highlight the pitfalls of fixed structures that lead to organizational debt and the challenge of changing established norms. The discussion shifts to innovative alternatives like flexible sprint incentives and spontaneous spot bonuses, which can foster motivation and loyalty. They emphasize the importance of agility in rewards to better align with evolving company goals and avoid creating people debt.
