Gary Taubes: MAHA, Ultra-Processed Foods, and Bad Science

Can Robert F. Kennedy Jr. put the country on a diet and Make America Healthy Again? Just asking questions. 

The MAHA Report is a 73-page document put out by a government commission headed by Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary RFJ Jr. Its goal is to "study the scope of the chronic childhood disease crisis and any potential causes including the American diet." The report points out that childhood obesity rates in the U.S. remain higher than in other G7 countries.

We invited Gary Taubes to join us today because he's a science journalist and researcher who has spent more than two decades studying the American diet. His books include Good Calories, Bad Calories, Why We Get Fat, and The Case Against Sugar. He writes about nutrition science in his Substack, Uncertainty Principles, where he has tackled the question of whether ultra-processed foods are the likely culprit driving America's obesity problem.

We also discuss whether RFK Jr. is more likely to improve or derail U.S. health and nutrition research, the recent resignation of one of the National Institutes of Health's top nutrition researchers, and a challenge to Taubes' "sugar hypothesis" from the pseudonymous blogger Cremieux Recueil.

Mentioned in the podcast:

"The MAHA Report," by the White House

Spectrum of processing of foods based on the NOVA classification

"Are Ultra-Processed Foods the Problem?" by Gary Taubes

"Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2020-2025," by the U.S. Department of Agriculture"

"Nutrition Beliefs Are Just-So Stories," by Cremieux Recueil

"Why Conventional Wisdom on Health Care Is Wrong (a Primer)," by Random Critical Analysis

"Top NIH scientist speaks out, says research was 'censored' under RFK Jr.," NIH researcher Kevin Hall on MSNBC's All-In with Chris Hayes

Chapters:

0:00—What does Gary Taubes think of the MAHA agenda?

2:10—What is wrong with the "American diet"?

6:48—Why is nutrition science so sloppy?

10:22—What's in the MAHA Report?

12:25—Have childhood diseases and disorders really been increasing?

17:02—How bad are "ultra-processed" foods?

27:42—Using "Occam's Razor" to figure out what's making Americans unhealthy

33:15—Taubes replies to Cremieux's criticism of his "sugar hypothesis"

40:42—Critiquing the "definitive" NIH study on ultra-processed foods

52:43—How much does willpower or self-control matter in controlling obesity?

1:03:14—Why a leading NIH nutrition researcher resigned from RFK Jr.'s HHS

1:08:22—Why Taubes thinks Jay Bhattacharya might make the NIH more functional

1:18:54—What's a question Taubes thinks more people should be asking?

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