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#276: From self-publishing to traditional and becoming a NYT best-seller | Pat Flynn (Part 2)

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Sep 30, 2025

Guest

Pat Flynn

Pat Flynn, founder of Smart Passive Income and author of Lean Learning, discusses his journey to becoming a New York Times bestseller. He reflects on the challenges and benefits of traditional publishing versus self-publishing. Pat shares insights on leveraging podcast guesting for book marketing and how unique strategies, like engaging his Pokémon fanbase, boosted pre-orders. He emphasizes the importance of embracing multiple interests to avoid burnout and stresses the value of community connections in the entrepreneurial landscape.

45:06

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Transcript

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Episode notes

insights

INSIGHT

Milestones Don't Always Change Daily Life

Pat says achieving a big milestone (NYT bestseller) didn't materially change his day-to-day life.
He frames it as personal pride rather than instant external rewards or fame.

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ANECDOTE

Why He Tried Traditional Publishing

Pat explains why he chose traditional publishing despite loving self-publishing.
He wanted firsthand experience and extra credibility in the self-help/learning space.

insights

INSIGHT

Mixed Feelings About Traditional Route

Pat is undecided whether he'd choose traditional publishing again and says his view shifts daily.
He values Simon & Schuster but felt tension over control, timing, and marketing execution.

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Becoming a New York Times Best-Seller

02:06 • 56sec

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Why Try Traditional Publishing

03:03 • 2min

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Benefits and Tensions with a Publisher

04:59 • 1min

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Would He Publish Traditionally Again?

06:10 • 2min

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What 'More Resources' Actually Means

08:13 • 2min

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Selling Your Platform to Publishers

10:40 • 2min

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Disagreements Over Pre-orders and Audiobook Timing

12:20 • 3min

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Pre-order Tradeoffs and Rankings

15:00 • 1min

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Using Niche Communities for Launch Support

16:13 • 4min

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Managing Multiple Audiences and Identity

20:31 • 4min

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Why Pat Embraces Multidisciplinary Work

24:40 • 2min

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Podcast Guesting as Core Marketing

26:50 • 2min

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Daily Short-Form Video Launch Campaign

29:04 • 4min

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How to Ask for Favors Authentically

33:17 • 4min

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Pitch Sequencing and an Abundance Mindset

37:30 • 2min

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Short Form vs Long Form Lessons

39:24 • 3min

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Practical Launch Logistics and Bonuses

• Mentioned in 53 episodes

Lean Learning

How to Achieve More by Learning Less

Pat Flynn

In 'Lean Learning', Pat Flynn addresses the challenges of information overload in the digital age. The book emphasizes the importance of selective curiosity, developing storytelling skills, and managing distractions to achieve goals. Flynn argues that learning the right things and avoiding 'junk sparks' that derail focus is crucial for success. He provides strategies for modern online entrepreneurs to stay healthy, focused, and productive in an era dominated by AI and social media.

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In *Let Go*, Martine Batchelor offers a comprehensive guide to understanding and transforming negative patterns of mind, such as fear, addiction, and judgment. The book includes exercises and guided meditations to help readers break free from habits and embrace their positive qualities. It explores various Buddhist meditation techniques and their applications in modern life, including Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy and meditation for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

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Will it fly

Eric Abrahamson

Nancy Austin

This book, published in 1977, is an anthology edited by Eric Abrahamson, Nancy Austin, and Robert Beaver. It contains contributions from students and is part of the National Student Anthology series.

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Atomic Habits

James Clear

Atomic Habits by James Clear provides a practical and scientifically-backed guide to forming good habits and breaking bad ones. The book introduces the Four Laws of Behavior Change: make it obvious, make it attractive, make it easy, and make it satisfying. It also emphasizes the importance of small, incremental changes (atomic habits) that compound over time to produce significant results. Clear discusses techniques such as habit stacking, optimizing the environment to support desired habits, and focusing on continuous improvement rather than goal fixation. The book is filled with actionable strategies, real-life examples, and stories from various fields, making it a valuable resource for anyone seeking to improve their habits and achieve personal growth.

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Sleep smarter

21 Essential Strategies to Sleep Your Way to a Better Body, Better Health, and Bigger Success

Shawn Stevenson

In 'Sleep Smarter,' Shawn Stevenson shares easy tips and tricks to help readers achieve the best sleep and health of their lives. The book includes a 14-Day Sleep Makeover, covering topics such as creating the ideal sleep sanctuary, regulating circadian rhythms with sunlight, using clinically proven sleep nutrients and supplements, and stress-reduction exercises. Stevenson emphasizes the critical role of sleep in shedding fat, staving off disease, improving productivity, and enhancing mental and physical health. The book is designed to be a fun and practical guide, providing real-world tools to help readers optimize their sleep and achieve a healthier, happier life.

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• Mentioned in 37 episodes

Superfans

The Easy Way to Stand Out, Grow Your Tribe, and Build a Successful Business

Pat Flynn

In 'Superfans,' Pat Flynn outlines a process to transform casual followers into dedicated superfans. The book emphasizes the importance of creating memorable experiences and building strong connections with your audience. It is divided into four parts: moving from a casual audience to an active audience, from an active audience to a connected community, from a connected community to superfans, and avoiding the pitfalls of building superfans. Flynn draws from his own experiences and those of other entrepreneurs to illustrate how to create a loyal and engaged community that will support your business over time.

This episode is part two of my recent conversation with Pat Flynn. Pat, is an online business legend, and this is the third time he's been on the show. Pat is the founder of Smart Passive Income.

In this episode, we dig into his experience publishing his latest book, Lean Learning: How to Achieve More by Learning Less. Lean Learning was a New York Times bestseller.

Get Pat’s book, Lean Learning

⁠Deep Pocket Monster⁠

⁠Short Pocket Monster⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Full transcript and show notes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pat's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠TikTok⁠

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TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Reached Goal, Life Unchanged

04:14 Navigating Traditional Publishing Challenges

08:46 Leveraging Connections for Future Opportunities

12:21 Book Launch Strategy Concerns

15:38 Just in Time Learning