#605: Hamilton Morris and Dr. Mark Plotkin — Exploring the History of Psychoactive Substances, Synthetic vs. Natural Options, Microdosing, 5-MeO-DMT, The “Drunken Monkey” Hypothesis, Timothy Leary’s Legacy, and More

92 snips

Jul 1, 2022

Guest

Mark Plotkin

Guest

Hamilton Morris

Hamilton Morris, a chemist and filmmaker renowned for "Hamilton's Pharmacopeia," teams up with Dr. Mark Plotkin, an ethnobotanist and president of the Amazon Conservation Team. Together, they delve into the rich history of psychoactive substances, debating the merits of synthetic versus natural options. They explore microdosing, the mysteries of 5-MeO-DMT, and the ecological implications of interest in the Sonoran Desert Toad. Morris and Plotkin emphasize the importance of open dialogue in both conservation and psychedelic research, while reflecting on Timothy Leary's lasting influence.

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ANECDOTE

Shulgin's Placebo Thumb Surgery

Alexander Shulgin had a thumb injury in the Navy and was given orange juice with crystals.
He thought it was morphine and felt pain relief, but it was just sugar, highlighting the placebo effect.

INSIGHT

Mescaline Source vs. Experience

The source of mescaline, whether synthetic or plant-derived, doesn't change its chemical composition.
However, individual experiences can differ due to personal beliefs and psychological priming.

ADVICE

Psychedelic Tourism Concerns

Be cautious about psychedelic tourism and unregulated treatments for serious diseases.
Ensure proper integration and aftercare, as these experiences can be disruptive.

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Neuropsychedelia

The Revival of Hallucinogen Research since the Decade of the Brain

Nicolas Langlitz

Neuropsychedelia explores the resurgence of hallucinogen research, bridging science and spirituality. It is based on fieldwork in laboratories in Switzerland and California, highlighting the tensions between modeling psychoses and evoking spiritual experiences. The book delves into the cultural and scientific dynamics that have brought psychedelics back into mainstream science and society.

The Desert Smells Like Rain

Gary Nabhan

In 'The Desert Smells Like Rain', Gary Nabhan explores the natural history and cultural traditions of the Tohono O'odham people in the Sonoran Desert. The book highlights their sustainable practices and offers insights into respecting and preserving the desert environment. It includes stories, folklore, and observations on the challenges of living in a harsh yet beautiful landscape.

The 4-Hour Body

An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman

Tim Ferriss

In 'The 4-Hour Body,' Tim Ferriss shares the results of over a decade of self-experimentation and research, involving hundreds of elite athletes, dozens of MDs, and thousands of hours of personal testing. The book covers more than 50 topics, including how to lose weight quickly, gain muscle without steroids, sleep less and perform better, and improve sexual health. Ferriss emphasizes the importance of finding the smallest changes that produce the biggest results, making it accessible for readers to achieve significant improvements in their physical health and performance.

How to Change Your Mind

What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence

Michael Pollan

In this book, Michael Pollan delves into the history of psychedelic drugs, from their rise in the 1960s to their current resurgence in medical research. He combines historical and scientific analysis with personal narratives of his own experiences with psychedelics, such as LSD and psilocybin. The book explores how these substances are being used to treat conditions like depression, addiction, and anxiety, and discusses their potential to revolutionize our understanding of the human mind and consciousness. Pollan's work is a blend of science, memoir, and travel writing, offering a nuanced and engaging look at the therapeutic and spiritual benefits of psychedelics[1][2][4].

Tales of a Shaman's Apprentice

null

Mark Plotkin

The Amazon way

14 Leadership Principles Behind the World's Most Disruptive Company

John Rossman

In this book, John Rossman delves into the unique corporate culture of Amazon, focusing on the 14 leadership principles that have driven the company's innovation and customer obsession. Rossman, who worked closely with Jeff Bezos, shares stories, meetings, emails, and conversations that reveal Bezos' brilliance and dedication to Amazon's customers. The book covers topics such as true customer obsession, simplification of customer experiences and scaling operations, the importance of metrics, Amazon's 'working backwards' approach to innovation, and the distinction between 'one-way door' and 'two-way door' decisions. It also provides insights into designing and implementing leadership principles and mechanisms with an 'etch-in-jello' mindset, making it a valuable resource for business leaders and entrepreneurs[1][3][4].

Hamilton Morris and Dr. Mark Plotkin — Exploring the History of Psychoactive Substances, Synthetic vs. Natural Options, Microdosing, 5-MeO-DMT, The “Drunken Monkey” Hypothesis, Timothy Leary’s Legacy, and More | Brought to you by Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. More on both below.

Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers, to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.

This time around, we have a very special edition featuring two of your favorite guests: Dr. Mark Plotkin and Hamilton Morris.

Mark takes over my duties as host and interviews Hamilton for an episode of the Plants of the Gods podcast. You, my dear listeners, are hearing the audio before anyone else, so this is a Tim Ferriss Show exclusive. I’ve previously featured some of my favorite episodes from that show at tim.blog/plantsofthegods. These episodes cover a lot of fascinating ground.

Who is Mark? Mark (@DocMarkPlotkin) is an ethnobotanist who serves as president of the Amazon Conservation Team, which has partnered with ~80 tribes to map and improve management and protection of ~100 million acres of ancestral rainforests. He is best known to the general public as the author of the book Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice, one of the most popular books ever written about the rainforest. His most recent book is The Amazon: What Everyone Needs to Know. You can find my interview with Mark at tim.blog/markplotkin.

And the guest today is Hamilton Morris. Hamilton (@HamiltonMorris) is a chemist, filmmaker, and science journalist. A graduate of The New School, he conducts chemistry research at Saint Joseph’s University. Hamilton is the writer and director of the documentary series Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia, in which he explores the chemistry and traditions surrounding psychoactive drugs. You can find my most recent interview with him at tim.blog/hamilton.

This is a tightly packed 60-minute interview. Mark and Hamilton cover the history of different psychoactive substances, Timothy Leary’s legacy, the “drunken monkey” hypothesis, conservation, microdosing, the differences between 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, a disease that afflicts people who smoke enormous quantities of cannabis, causing them to vomit continuously and only find relief from their nausea by taking a hot shower (yes, really), the impact of the placebo effect, a synthetic vs. a natural product, the role of ritual, and much, much more.

Please enjoy!

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.

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It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.

[06:22] The Sonoran desert toad's celebrity star is rising

[08:18] The role of the chemist in preserving plants, animals, and fungi from which compounds are traditionally derived

[11:18] Who is Howard Lotsof?

[14:02] Microdosing

[16:39] Ken Nelson and the celebrated Bufo Alvarius: The Psychedelic Toad of the Sonoran Desert pamphlet

[20:11] God molecule vs. just plain old DMT

[22:25] There are potential downsides to these compounds (even cannabis)

[27:58] Undiscovered compounds

[30:15] Lessons learned and questions pondered from Alexander Shulgin's thumb surgery

[34:05] Synthetic vs. natural

[37:21] The role of ritual

[39:49] Combining traditions

[42:27] Mark's account of Huautla in the early 2000s.

[42:58] Downsides of psychedelic tourism

[47:46] Effectiveness of fungi vs. frogs

[49:52] Where do we go in search of new substances?

[53:11] How far back do shamanic traditions go?

[54:40] Poisons as medicines and vice versa

[56:34] Salvia, and stoned vs. drunk apes

[1:04:20] Nicolas Langlitz and the primatology of primatologists

[1:06:03] Timothy Leary's legacy

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