Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Protecting Yourself from Narcissistic People with Dr. Ramani Durvasula

Feb 24, 2025

Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a clinical psychologist and expert on narcissism, joins the discussion to unravel the complexities of narcissistic behavior. She lays out specific traits and the spectrum of narcissism, explaining why these individuals can be so hard to identify. The conversation dives into the emotional turmoil of relationships with narcissists, highlighting abusive patterns and offering strategies to become 'narcissist resistant.' Dr. Ramani emphasizes the importance of boundaries and self-care for healing from toxic dynamics.

01:22:34

Episode guests

Ramani Durvasula

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Quick takeaways

Narcissism exists on a spectrum, including various types like vulnerable, communal, and malignant narcissism, each exhibiting unique characteristics.

Relationships with narcissists typically follow a destructive cycle of idealization, devaluation, and discard, leading to emotional confusion and self-doubt.

Establishing healthy boundaries and practicing radical acceptance are crucial strategies for managing relationships with narcissistic individuals effectively.

Deep dives

Understanding Narcissism Defined

Narcissism is characterized by a personality style where individuals show low, often performative empathy, display a sense of entitlement, and possess an excessive need for admiration. These traits manifest in superficial relationships that are often transactional or exploitative, masking an insecure and shame-filled interior. When narcissistic individuals don't receive the validation they crave, their defenses kick in, resulting in behaviors like rage, passive-aggression, and manipulation. Consequently, navigating relationships with narcissistic individuals can be challenging due to these psychologically unsafe dynamics.

Intro

2min

Understanding Narcissism: Traits and Spectrum

21min

Navigating Relationships with Narcissistic Traits

4min

Navigating Narcissistic Relationships

18min

Navigating Narcissistic Relationships

17min

Empowering Education and Online Security

2min

Navigating Narcissistic Relationships

13min

Navigating Relationships with Narcissistic Individuals

5min

Dr. Ramani Durvasula, one of the world’s leading experts on narcissism and narcissistic abuse, joins Forrest to help us learn how to understand, identify, and recover from relationships with narcissistic people. They start by discussing the traits associated with narcissism, the spectrum of narcissistic behaviors, and Dr. Ramani’s critiques of the NPD diagnosis. They then talk about different kinds of narcissism and why narcissists can be difficult to identify before moving on to the issues with narcissism in relationships. Dr. Ramani explains the general pattern narcissism follows, what narcissistic abuse looks like in practice, and what we can do to become more "narcissist resistant.”

About our Guest: Dr. Ramani is a clinical psychologist, professor emeritus at California State University, Los Angeles, and the author of a number of books including her most recent It’s Not You: Identifying and Healing from Narcissistic People. Her work has been featured on The Today Show, CNN, and The New York Times. She also offers an online program for survivors of narcissistic abuse.

You can watch this episode on YouTube.

Key Topics:

0:00: Introduction

1:30: Defining the variety of narcissistic personality styles

9:40: Narcissism as a tactic for external validation

13:00: Narcissistic supplies, personality style, and diagnosable conditions

24:45: The appeal of narcissistic traits, and their effect on specific relationships

33:25: Getting stuck in a relationship with a narcissist, and devaluation

42:45: Manipulation, gaslighting, and discerning what’s real

52:35: Becoming narcissist resistant

1:00:45: Nervous system responses

1:03:25: Covert narcissism and seeing your own traits

1:06:45: Recap

I am now writing on Substack, check out my work there.

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Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Protecting Yourself from Narcissistic People with Dr. Ramani Durvasula

Episode guests