IN-DEPTH: Greatness on Trial (w/ Brad Stulberg and Clay Skipper)
Mar 6, 2025
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Brad Stulberg, a writer and co-founder of The Growth Equation, joins Clay Skipper, a GQ veteran and insightful commentator, to dissect our modern concept of greatness. They explore the contradiction of admiring skill while rejecting performative displays, drawing examples from figures like Elon Musk. The discussion digs into the detrimental effects of social media on perceptions of success, urging a shift towards valuing authentic effort over superficial marks of achievement. Ultimately, they advocate for a personal definition of greatness rooted in integrity and genuine connections.
The podcast scrutinizes the societal aversion to performative greatness while advocating for a return to valuing authentic dedication and craftsmanship.
Listeners are urged to redefine their metrics for success, embracing personal achievements over curated comparisons presented on social media.
The conversation highlights the interplay between personal circumstances and effort, emphasizing that greatness is a unique journey guided by individual values, not societal expectations.
Deep dives
The Nature of Greatness and Entrepreneurialism
The conversation begins by examining the critical perspective presented in a New York Times op-ed about the evolving notion of greatness in American culture, particularly through the lens of entrepreneurialism. The discussion highlights how post-war ideals shifted from industriousness—valuing hard work and loyalty—to a fixation on self-made billionaires who embody the 'entrepreneurial spirit'. This shift has created societal pressure to attain notoriety and greatness, often overshadowing the foundational values of dedication and craftsmanship. The guests explore the implications of this transition, suggesting that the myth of the entrepreneur can detract from underlying economic issues and contribute to unrealistic expectations for individuals navigating their careers.
Performative vs. Actual Hard Work
The panel critically distinguishes between performative hard work and actual meaningful endeavors, emphasizing that the former often receives undue acclaim when contrasted with the latter. They point to examples, such as Elon Musk's public persona that glorifies excessive work hours without necessarily reflecting substantive productivity. The discussions delve into how this performative aspect can warp perceptions of what genuine hard work looks like and leads to a culture of busyness that does not equate to actual effectiveness. By drawing parallels to athletes and artists who invest time and dedication into honing their crafts, the guests argue for the importance of valuing genuine effort over mere visibility.
The Dangers of Comparing Success
The dialogue addresses the pervasive issue of comparison in today's hyper-connected world, highlighting how social media exacerbates feelings of inadequacy regarding personal achievements. The guests note that the promotion of curated lifestyles leads to a skewed interpretation of success, making it easy for individuals to feel like they are falling short of others’ accomplishments. They emphasize the need to redefine personal metrics for success, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of greatness that recognizes personal talents and unique circumstances. This approach fosters a healthier mindset, allowing individuals to celebrate their own journeys without being bogged down by external standards.
Identifying Real vs. Pseudo-Greatness
A significant part of the conversation revolves around discerning real greatness from its performative counterpart, with the panel stressing the importance of finding authenticity in one's pursuits. They argue that while societal narratives often celebrate flashy displays of hard work or success, true achievement is often less visible and more grounded in consistent effort and passion for one's craft. Listeners are encouraged to pursue their interests with integrity, recognizing that the most impactful forms of greatness often manifest quietly through dedication and resilience. This idea underscores the necessity of seeking out genuine role models and examples rather than succumbing to the allure of superficial accolades.
The Role of Circumstance and Luck in Achievement
The discussion touches on the interplay between personal circumstances, luck, and achievement, proposing that while these elements are influential, they should not deter individuals from striving for greatness. The guests articulate that recognizing the role of luck is crucial in understanding the trajectory of one’s career, yet it does not diminish the value of hard work and ambition. They argue that everyone has the potential to excel within their means, emphasizing that success does not require identical starting points but rather an acknowledgment of one’s unique situation. This perspective encourages a balanced approach, promoting personal growth that is informed by both humility and aspiration.
Defining a Personal Version of Greatness
Finally, the panel suggests that achieving greatness should be a personalized journey, guided by individual values and aspirations rather than societal expectations. They advocate for clarity about one’s own goals and the integration of minimum effective doses for important life areas, such as family, health, and community. By creating a framework that balances ambition with personal priorities, individuals can pursue their version of greatness without sacrificing the relationships and commitments that matter to them. This approach allows for a richer, more fulfilling engagement with life, focusing on both personal integrity and the joy of progress.
In this episode of IN-DEPTH, Cal is joined by the writers Brad Stulberg and Clay Skipper to talk about the topic of “greatness.” They attempt to pick apart the weird moment we are in where, on the one hand, we feel aversion to performative demonstrations of “pseudo-greatness” (think: Elon Musk on-stage with his chainsaw) but on the other, still admire useful skill and seek it in our own lives.