Suffering can shape our character and contribute to personal growth, but not all suffering can be justified in this way.
Atheists find meaning in the world by creating it themselves, accepting that some suffering may have no redemption or ultimate purpose.
Deep dives
The challenge of suffering and belief in God
In this podcast episode, the problem of evil is discussed in relation to the question of why God allows suffering. Christian philosopher Vince Vitale and atheist thinker Julian Baguini debate this issue. Vince argues that God may allow suffering in order to create beings like us and to shape our character, although he acknowledges that not all suffering can be explained in this way. Julian, as an atheist, explains that suffering is a challenge for belief in God, and that atheists find meaning in the world by creating it themselves.
The limits of explaining suffering
It is recognized that there are difficulties in explaining the reason behind suffering. The soul-making theodicy is mentioned, which suggests that suffering can shape our character and contribute to our personal growth. While this approach may offer some perspective, it is important to recognize that not all suffering can be justified in this manner. The discussion also touches on the issue of excessive suffering, such as torture or psychopathic acts, which seem to go beyond what is necessary for personal growth or the exercise of free will.
The meaning of suffering and the role of atheism
The question of meaning in the face of suffering is explored from the perspective of atheism. It is noted that atheists find meaning in the world by creating it themselves, individually and collectively. Julian emphasizes the acceptance that some suffering may have no redemption or ultimate purpose, which can be a challenging aspect of atheism. Acknowledging the difficulty of this perspective, the importance of being honest about the realities of suffering is highlighted.
Theodicy and the mystery of suffering
The limitations of theodicy are discussed, with Vince acknowledging that attempting to explain suffering can sometimes come across as crass or obscene in the face of extreme pain. Instead, the importance of embracing the mystery and accepting that a loving God may be beyond human comprehension is emphasized. It is suggested that a focus on individuals and love can provide a more honest and compassionate approach to theodicy.
From February 2015: Following atheist Stephen Fry's viral anti-God video, the question of how a good God could allow suffering has come into focus again.
Justin is joined by Christian philosopher Vince Vitale, author of "Why Suffering?" as he debates the issues with atheist think Julian Baggini.
To watch Justin's own response to Stephen Fry: https://youtu.be/klPr708VWDk
To watch the video of this debate: https://youtu.be/GgCiEftlNy4
For Vince Vitale: www.theocca.org
For John Loftus: www.microphilosophy.net
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