This is the second of two very special episodes that we’re doing in back-to-back weeks instead of our usual bi-weekly schedule.This episode features the message I preached in January 2024, on the day our church honored Shelley and me for our 31 years of serving the church on staff.In this message, I talked about what we’re doing next, including why God has called us to the ministry of Helping Small Churches Thrive.It includes some of the key points we teach to Small Church Pastors, like:The Theory of the Long TailThe Grasshopper MythThe Pastoral Prime Mandateand more. It also includes how people can support us in this new era of ministry.We will no longer be receiving a salary from the church, but we’re raising all our own funds to be missionaries to the small churches in need. But the churches that need the help the most can afford it the least.To become a financial supporter, please visit https://karlvaters.com/support/.The message ends with one of the most touching stories I’ve ever heard about a Small Church Pastor who, like so many others, is one of the unsung heroes of the faith.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

This is the first of two very special episodes that we’re doing in back-to-back weeks, instead of our usual bi-weekly schedule.In January 2024, Karl and Shelley Vaters were honored by their home church as they ended 31 years on the pastoral staff—25 years as lead pastor, six years as teaching pastor. This, and the next episode of The Church Lobby are taken from that Sunday service.This episode features an on-stage interview in which Gary Garcia (the current lead pastor), asks Karl about their time at Cornerstone. It’s a helpful look at the value of longevity for the pastor and the church and some insights into how they were able to navigate a healthy pastoral transition.Be sure to stick around after the interview for some of Karl's important takeways for people in ministry.You can watch the entire service on the CornerstoneFV YouTube channel, here.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

A little over a year ago, A.I. came into our lives in a big way. Suddenly, it seemed to be everywhere.Karl Vaters talks with Jason Moore about what A.I. is, why it came into our lives so suddenly, and what its strengths and dangers are. Then they spend the bulk of this slightly longer-than-usual episode with Jason physically walking us through using A.I. in real time, showing it to us on his computer screen.This is a great episode to watch on our YouTube Channel, but we also describe everything verbally, so you’ll get all the key information if you’re listening to audio only.Links From This Episode:This podcast episode on YouTubeBard.Google.comChat GPT: Chat.Openai.comClaud.aiMagai.coElevenlabs.ioEmail: Mail@MidnightoilProductions.comhttps://www.facebook.com/midnightoilproductions/To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Everyone has an opinion about live streaming, pro or con. As I sift through it, I only want to give a platform to the most helpful, thoughtful voices, and Tim Fox is one of them.In this podcast, we talk about the content of a Facebook post Tim wrote that challenged the reasons most churches live stream their services, while offering some thoughtful alternatives.Tim is not anti tech, but he is good at asking deeper questions about what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. He offers eight points, all of which are thoughtful, including two that really caught my attention. And all four of his alternatives are helpful.Tim is a denominational leader in Georgia who spent several years leading a small church into a healthy turnaround.Also, this episode marks a change in the way I close podcasts. From this point on, if I have closing words after the interview (and I may not always) it will be to add something new to the conversation, not just to give a summation of it. And that’s what I do at the end of this episode, so stick around for my additional thoughts.Links From This Episode:Tim's Original Facebook postTheRethinkingLeader.comglooChurchTracTextInChurchBonus Chat (Available to Patreon supporters and newsletter subscribers on our YouTube channel)Creating A Digital Disciple-making Strategy, with Tim FoxAsk better questions. This is the essence of Tim Fox’s approach to ministry and his advice for us. In this bonus content, Tim talks to us about how to think better about how we engage people online as a lead-in and as supplemental to our in-person service, not as an alternative to it.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Pastors need to read, not just for information, but for formation.Austin Carty and Karl Vaters cover topics like:The importance of reading many types of books, not just works of theology and leadershipHow reading helps us become more mature, wise, and caringHow reading the Bible with a sense of wonder helps embed its truths into our livesHow important it is to take reading seriously, not a luxury, or as something I squeeze in around ministry, but as an essential aspect of growing in life, faith, and ministry Links from this episode:Ministry In A Secular Age, by Andrew Roote-mail: acarty@boulevardbaptist.comBonus Chat How To Become A Pastor-reader (5 Takeaways), with Austin CartyIf you’ve had a hard time reading more, check out how Austin and Karl flesh out these following steps to becoming more of a pastor-reader:See reading as a pastoral visitDon’t start by trying to read too muchHold no knowledge or writing in contemptTrust that there is beauty to be found in all sorts of booksTry to read as much material off-line as possible.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Author Drew Dyck joins the host to discuss the importance of physical presence in pastoral ministry and the debate between quantity and quality time. They explore the value of consistency and perseverance, the significance of small steps, and being present in relationships. They emphasize the impact of intergenerational relationships, the power of simple acts of faithfulness, and the challenges in Christian publishing.

Burnout is a huge issue among pastors. But did you know there’s a simple (but not simplistic) way to start addressing and reducing burnout? And that your congregation can help you with it?That’s the premise of Karl's conversation with Josh Taylor, based on his book, A Preach Well Church: How Churches Can Stop Burning Out Pastors.Josh and Karl talk about what causes ministry stress, and how to start relieving that stress by doing the two primary tasks pastors are called to do – preaching and prayer.They also talk about:How good stewardship of a pastor’s time and energy should not be measured by what they do, but by what they focus on – prayer and preachingThat focusing on prayer and preaching does not – and should never – mean neglecting the other hands-on aspects of pastoral careThat planning and prioritizing our sermon prep time doesn’t just help us be better preachers, but it reduces the urgency, allowing us to be better caregiving pastor as welland moreLinks from this episode:ChatGPTYouVersion Bible AppBreezeCHMSPreachwell.comFacebook - Joshoutloud Bonus ChatHow Prayer Helps Reduce Ministry Stress (with Josh Taylor)While stress reduction is not the main reason for prayer, it is a wonderful, often under-appreciated side effect in three ways:It reminds us we are not aloneIt’s not just about getting things from God, but about giving things to himIt gives us strength to handle criticismTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

There are so many books about how to turn a lifeless church around. Most concentrate on the pastor’s role. But what about the role of the congregation members? In small churches, this is especially important.Karl Vaters talks with Bud Brown about how to help the congregation become agents of life and hope in a dying church through the power of prayer, from the content of the book, Lifeless to New Life: Biblical prayers to resurrect the lifeless church.The importance of praying the evangelistic prayers of the New TestamentPreparing the soil to receive a fresh visionHow to help a congregation embrace deep transition, not just surface changeLinks from this episode:https://www.turnaroundpastor.com/Podcast, The Genius of Thomas Sowell - https://www.buzzsprout.com/1826734 email - bud@budbrown.netBonus ContentThe 8 Prayers We Need For Church Revitalization, with Bud BrownThere are eight specific types of prayers that the New Testament tells us to pray.In this bonus content, Karl Vaters talks with Lavern E. “Bud” Brown about each of those prayer types, from his recent book, Lifeless to New Life: Biblical prayers to resurrect the lifeless church, including what those prayers are, why they matter, and how they apply in church turnarounds.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

In a recent survey, 80 percent of respondents said "yes" to the question, “since serving on a church board, do you feel your spiritual life has declined?” Why is this happening, and what can be done about it?In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Dave Beckwith about How to Turn Your Board Meetings Into God Meetings, includingHow our current corporate style of board meetings isn’t just unbiblical, it’s causing great harm to boards, pastors and the churches they serveHow to shift to a more biblical modelHow to choose church leaders in a more biblical wayAdvice about the best board sizes and term limits Links from this Episode:Book - Washed and WaitingStanding Stone MinistryContact - Dave.B@Standingstoneministry.org Bonus Chat When God Uses a Drop In Numbers to Redirect Your Efforts, with Dave BeckwithKarl Vaters and Dave Beckwith talk about issues related to church size, based on a story that Dave tells in his book, and that Karl cites in his new book, De-sizing the Church (coming April 2, 2024). Specifically we ask, what happens when a drop in attendance numbers isn’t loss, but simply a redirection? To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

With people attending church less frequently now, you average Sunday attendance represents a smaller percent of your regulars than ever befofe. And it affects how we pastor them and what they expect of the church in ways we may not realize.Karl Vaters talks about this with Chad Brooks, a co-vocational pastor, blogger at RevChadBrooks.com, and the host of the Productive Pastor podcast, about:Why church size matters— but not in the way you think it doesHow to determine how many people you’re actually pastoring, since it’s changed a lot in the last couple yearsWhy the main weekend service may no longer be the wide end of your church funnel, anymore Links:Karl’s Twitter feed with Chad’s commentsRevChadBrooks.comWhat The Drop In Attendance Frequency Means For PastorsDeclaring Church Size (and why it matters)No Silver Bullets (book)https://www.ihelppastorsgetjobs.com/Ryan BurgeThe Great DeChurching (book)https://substack.com/Ian Harber on Substack@revchadbrooksBonus ContentThe Moving Target of Small, Medium, and Large Churches — And Why It MattersKarl Vaters talks with Chad Brooks about three different ways of deciding whether your church is small, medium, or big, including some helpful information that Chad found from actually interviewing church members about it.This is important to know because if one person thinks 100 is small, another thinks 100 is medium, and a third person thinks 100 is big, it will change what they do, how they learn, and what leadership principles they follow.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.