
Follow the Rabbit
Welcome to Follow the Rabbit where we pull back the curtain on our cultural research process. We're Igor and Johannes, two endlessly curious minds who've built our careers on exploring the ever-shifting landscape of culture. Join us as we work with the garage door up, sharing not just our findings, but our entire journey of discovery. Whether you're a curious mind, a fellow researcher, or a potential client, Follow the Rabbit offers a unique glimpse into how we map, frame, and engage with culture.
Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production
Latest episodes

Oct 22, 2024 • 42min
The Evolution of Health as the new Luxury
Explore the cultural shift that elevates health to a status symbol, starting with the influence of Patrick Bateman's grooming habits. Discover how luxury consumption transformed after the 2008 crisis, emphasizing personal wellness and high-end self-care. The rise of wearable technology, like the Apple Watch, intertwines fashion with health tracking. Dive into the luxurious allure of IV drips and their place in nightlife recovery. Finally, redefine what luxury means today amidst pressures for well-being and success in our fast-paced world.

Oct 15, 2024 • 8min
Introducing: Health as the new Luxury
Welcome to the new season of Follow the Rabbit. This time, we’re diving headfirst into the evolving world of health and wellness. As the landscape shifts, we believe we’re witnessing a fundamental change in how we think about health, healthcare, and well-being.
Here’s what you can expect:
1. We’ll explore the idea of “health as luxury”—not just a fleeting trend but a long-term cultural transformation.
2. We’ll cover topics like:
The intersection of technology and health, with Apple’s vision leading the way
The rise of GLP-1 drugs and their impact on obesity in the US
How modern gym aesthetics shape culture
How health and wellness are portrayed in iconic films like American Psycho
The role of athleisure in health culture
What it means when a high-end supermarket focused on healthy products in LA becomes more of a lifestyle—or a vibe
The use of Continues Glucose Monitoring products by non-diabetics
3. We’ll take a closer look at the business models driving these trends, how political actors are shaping the market, and who is working to make healthcare more equitable.
While we’ll reference some of our earlier research, including a 2020 trend report that described the rise of “health as luxury,” our focus remains on the here and now as well as possible futures. As always, we’ll also bring in interesting guests to share their perspectives and dive deeper into these conversations with us.
We want you to be part of the conversation. Share your thoughts, suggest guests, and help us bring diverse voices into the mix. This season promises to explore the contradictions, innovations, and cultural shifts shaping the future of health and wellness. Stay tuned.
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Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production
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Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske
Find out more about Igor Schwarzmann
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Oct 8, 2024 • 49min
Third Places in a Filter World with Kyle Chayka
In this season finale of Follow the Rabbit, we conclude our exploration of the re-emergence of third places with special guest Kyle Chayka, staff writer at The New Yorker and author of ‘Filter Worlds: How Algorithms Flattened Culture.’ This episode bridges the gap between the physical concept of third places and the digital world that increasingly shapes our experiences.
Key points of discussion include:
The evolution of coffee shop culture from the "airspace" aesthetic of 2016 to current trends, reflecting on how digital platforms have influenced physical spaces.
An examination of gyms as modern third places, highlighting the shift towards personalized experiences rather than community interaction.
Starbucks' attempt to reimagine the third place concept in the digital age, blending physical and virtual experiences.
The role of restaurants in the current landscape of third places, and how social media has transformed dining experiences.
The tension between the desire for personalized, algorithm-driven experiences and the need for genuine community interaction in third places.
The emergence of counter-movements resisting algorithmic recommendations in favor of more authentic, localized experiences.
Reflections on how our behavior in physical third places is increasingly shaped by our online habits and expectations.
The episode provides a fitting conclusion to our season-long exploration of third places, offering insights into how digital culture has transformed our understanding and experience of community spaces. It raises important questions about the future of third places in an increasingly personalized and digitally-mediated world, leaving listeners with much to ponder about the nature of community and belonging in contemporary society.
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/NC62oEtGBpI

Oct 1, 2024 • 51min
Third Places in Tokyo with Chris Palmieri
Follow the Rabbit is a (video) podcast that invites you into the messy, interconnected world of cultural research. In Season 1 we used Toby Shorin's essay Life after Lifestyle to explore cultural rabbit holes, connect unexpected dots, and uncover insights that shape our world, all while working with the garage door open. In Season 2 we go even deeper into the current re-emergence of the third-place concept.
This episode of Follow the Rabbit features Chris Palmieri, co-founder of AQ, a design product studio based in Tokyo and Paris. The episode focuses on exploring third places in Japan, particularly in Tokyo, where Chris has been living since 2001.
Key points of the discussion include:
Chris's observations on the evolution of third places in Tokyo, presented through a detailed map of various types of spaces and their functions.
The post-war trend of co-opting public functions (like bathing) into private homes, and how this affected traditional third places.
The concept of “privacy as service” in dense urban environments, including unique uses of spaces like car-sharing vehicles and love hotels.
The idea of “companionship as service” in various types of cafes and social spaces.
The role of convenience stores in Tokyo as an extension of home and part of the city's “operating system”
A case study of the film “Perfect Days” by Wim Wenders, illustrating how third places are portrayed in cinema and how they reflect social dynamics in Tokyo.
Comparison of Oldenburg's characteristics of third places with the reality of contemporary Japan, noting differences in social leveling, conversation as the main activity, and anonymity.
Discussion on how Tokyo's long-standing density and financial restrictions might foreshadow trends in Western cities.
The episode provides a rich exploration of how third places function in a dense urban environment like Tokyo, offering insights into cultural differences and potential future trends for urban spaces globally. It highlights the adaptability of spaces in Tokyo and how the entire city can be seen as an extension of one's home.
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/4It1SaFkclc

Sep 24, 2024 • 47min
Ungrammable Hang Zones and Neo-Third Places with Kelly Pendergrast
This episode of “Follow the Rabbit” features the podcast's first guest, Kelly Pendergrast, a writer, researcher, and strategist based in Oakland, California. Kelly's expertise in technology, digital images, and material culture brings a fresh perspective to the ongoing discussion about third places.
The main topic of discussion is the evolution of third places, comparing traditional concepts to modern interpretations. Kelly presents her research on the subject, highlighting the differences between classic third spaces (like local bars, bowling alleys, or churches) and newer, more branded and aesthetically-driven spaces.
Key points of the discussion include:
The shift from “container” third spaces to “platform” third spaces- The role of aesthetics and branding in modern third spaces
The impact of social media and online culture on physical spaces
The concept of “ungrammable hang zones” versus Instagram-friendly spaces
The challenges of creating neutral spaces in today's identity-conscious world
The financial and real estate factors influencing the development of new third spaces
The conversation delves into the reasons behind these changes, touching on topics such as the abundance of information online, the desire for optimized experiences, and the changing nature of community building.
Throughout the episode, Igor and Johannes engage with Kelly's ideas, offering their own insights and experiences. The discussion evolves to consider whether it's possible or desirable to recreate traditional third spaces in the modern context, and what new forms of community spaces might emerge.
The episode concludes with a reflection on the complexities of creating truly neutral spaces in today's society, acknowledging the historical biases in what were once considered “neutral” spaces. This leads to a more nuanced understanding of the potential benefits of newer, more intentionally designed third spaces.
Overall, the episode provides a thought-provoking exploration of how third places are evolving in response to technological, social, and cultural changes, leaving listeners with much to consider about the future of community spaces.
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/POQxyBIZj3k

Sep 17, 2024 • 37min
Bleisure
In this episode, Johannes and Igor explore the concept of third places and their significance in travel. They discuss the emerging trend of pleasure in travel, the implications of revenge travel post-pandemic, and the rise of holistic tourism. The conversation delves into the importance of authenticity, community, and connection in travel experiences, as well as the impact of COVID-19 on travel trends. They also touch on the future of travel, emphasizing wellness and personalized experiences.
00:00
Introduction and Research Process
02:08
The Rise of Pleasure as a Driving Force in Travel
07:15
The Challenges of Business and Pleasure
12:28
The Connection Between Third Places and Holistic Experiences
14:13
The Importance of Authenticity and Wellness in Holistic Tourism
17:32
Investments and Changes in the Hospitality and Gym Industries
20:42
The Search for Meaning and Multiverses of Identity
25:44
The Role of Third Places in Building Community and Meaning
29:19
The Aesthetics of Third Places and Personalized Culture Scapes
36:43
Reflections on Third Places and the Future of Travel
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/en59twofoso

Sep 12, 2024 • 28min
Real-World Third Place Examples
Igor and Johannes discuss the concept of holistic approaches and the difference between positive and negative futures. They explore the example of a car-free city as a negative future and the importance of framing it in a positive way. They then shift their focus to the city of Karlsruhe in Germany, which has embraced holistic approaches and created third places that dissolve borders and provide opportunities for community engagement. They discuss the Triangle Open Space in Karlsruhe, which combines a vegan cafe, a lab for scientists, an event space, and a place for public presentations and discussions. They highlight the trend of experimentation and pop-up spaces in cities, as well as the challenges of balancing short-term agility with long-term commitments in real estate.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Interdisciplinary Strength
01:52 Holistic Approaches: Practical Perspective
03:18 Framing Futures: Positive vs Negative
05:39 Karlsruhe: A City Embracing Holistic Approaches
10:18 Third Places and Community Engagement
13:34 Triangle Open Space: Combining Ideas and Spaces
22:15 Changing Cities and the Role of Private Clubs and Gyms
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/u7wUdqXndKo

Sep 1, 2024 • 23min
From Work-Life Balance to Fluid Integration
Dive into the intriguing world of wellness as the hosts explore how popular culture portrays self-care in shows like 'Nine Perfect Strangers.' Uncover the rise of holistic health spaces such as Slowness and 180 House, merging work and personal life. Discover the shift from traditional work-life balance to a fluid integration that prioritizes social connections for better health and longevity. They emphasize the importance of community ties in enriching experiences, particularly in urban environments.

Sep 1, 2024 • 10min
Intro to Season 2
Follow the Rabbit is a (video) podcast that invites you into the messy, interconnected world of cultural research. In Season 1 we used Toby Shorin's essay Life after Lifestyle to explore cultural rabbit holes, connect unexpected dots, and uncover insights that shape our world, all while working with the garage door open. In Season 2 we go even deeper into the current re-emergence of the third-place concept.
In this conversation, Johannes and Igor discuss the transition from the previous season of Follow the Rabbit to the upcoming season. They explain their research process and the change in format from Instagram Reels to YouTube videos. They highlight the topics they explored in the previous season, such as direct-to-consumer brands and the commodification of subcultures. They also mention their focus on the concept of the third place and its evolution. They introduce the format for season two, where they will have longer episodes and engage in conversations together. They invite feedback and ideas from the audience.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Format Change
01:09 Preparing for Season Two
03:32 Exploring Run Clubs
04:30 The Concept of the Third Place
06:03 Season Two: The New Third Place Understanding
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/1iB-qQKUfz0

Aug 31, 2024 • 11min
Unbundling of Spirituality
Follow the Rabbit is a (video) podcast that invites you into the messy, interconnected world of cultural research. Join Igor and Johannes in Season 1 as they use Toby Shorin's essay Life after Lifestyle to explore cultural rabbit holes, connect unexpected dots, and uncover insights that shape our world, all while working with the garage door open.
This episode of Follow the Rabbit explores the evolution of gyms and wellness spaces, focusing on the emergence of “social wellness clubs.” Key points include:
1. Post-pandemic shift in fitness motivations from weight loss to stress reduction and holistic well-being.
2. Introduction of “social wellness” concept, combining physical fitness with mental, emotional, and spiritual health.
3. Integration of traditional practices (e.g., Ayurveda, TCM) with modern technologies (e.g., cryotherapy, biohacking) in new wellness clubs.
4. Expansion of high-end social wellness clubs, particularly in Asia, offering comprehensive health programs.
5. Connection to Toby Shorin's new project, Care Cultures, focusing on holistic health and community leadership.
6. Discussion of the “unbundling of spirituality” from organized religion, with wellness spaces filling the gap.
7. Example of Open, a Los Angeles-based studio combining yoga with mental health focus and scientific approach to breathwork.
8. Reflection on the spiritual aspects of group breathwork experiences.
9. Reference back to Shorin's essay, particularly the quote about the opportunity to “build a new religion.”
10. Mention of the shift from lifestyle brands in the 2010s to “incentivized ideologies, network publics, and co-owned faith” in the 2020s, particularly in the context of Web3 communities.
The episode highlights how wellness spaces are evolving to meet changing societal needs, incorporating elements of community, spirituality, and holistic health beyond traditional fitness offerings. It suggests a trend towards more comprehensive, multifaceted approaches to well-being that address physical, mental, and spiritual aspects of health.
You can also watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/Idc94655cWI
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