The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession

Associated Bodywork & Massage Professionals

Our goal is to speak with luminaries and experts in and around massage and bodywork to help expound upon and better understand our profession and our practices.

Episodes

Mentioned books

Apr 22, 2025 • 16min

Ep 500 – Myasthenia Gravis: "I Have a Client Who . . ." Pathology Conversations with Ruth Werner

Apr 15, 2025 • 13min

Ep 499 – The Algorithm of the Supraspinatus: "The Rebel MT" with Allison Denney

Algorithms might dominate our feeds, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. Anatomy has the same issue. Dominated by what is the popular belief, muscles will often do what they are fed to believe is possible. Take, for example, the supraspinatus. Host Bio: Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Rebel Massage Therapist: My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good. website: www.rebelmassage.com FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage email: rebelmassagetherapist@gmail.com

Apr 11, 2025 • 18min

Ep 498 – Preparing for a New Expense: "Business or Pressure" with Allissa Haines

Before making a big purchase or financial change, try living like you've already made it—for at least three months. This simple practice helps you adjust to new expenses, identify what's truly essential, and build savings in the process. It's a powerful way to test decisions with real-world impact—before you're locked in. Resources: Annette Montgomery, practicing LMT in Indiana and founder of Bolstered, a virtual support community for Massage Therapists Find more about Annette at www.annettemontgomery.org and on Instagram at @the_annettemontgomery Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com

Apr 8, 2025 • 26min

Ep 497 – Building a Thriving Hands-On Practice with Elicia Crook

Taking the leap into full-time massage is a dream for many practitioners, but it can feel daunting. Whether you're just starting out or looking to make the transition from a part-time role, the step to full time is one that requires courage, planning, and action. Kristin and Darren are joined by Elicia Crook to talk about what's holding people back from taking the leap in becoming a solo practitioner, and ideas to help them overcome the fear of being a business owner. Resources: Elicia Crook is a business coach and mentor for massage therapists, sharing the tactics she used to create her business success over 16 years. She is a diploma-qualified remedial massage therapist, using modalities such as Bowen and craniosacral therapy, and has a Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment, which she used while teaching massage for several years. Through her career and business experience, Crook discovered who she needed to be and what is required to run a deeply satisfying massage business. Now she takes the Fully Booked Without Burnout blueprint to other therapists around the world to create more success and passion. For more information, visit massagechampions.com. "Building a Thriving Hands-On Practice", by Elicia Crook, Massage & Bodywork magazine, Spring 2025. ABMP CE Center Hosts: Darren Buford is senior director of communications and editor-in-chief for ABMP. He is editor of Massage & Bodywork magazine and has worked for ABMP for 22 years, and been involved in journalism at the association, trade, and consumer levels for 24 years. He has served as board member and president of the Western Publishing Association, as well as board member for Association Media & Publishing. Contact him at editor@abmp.com. Kristin Coverly, LMT is a massage therapist, educator, and the director of professional education at ABMP. She loves creating continuing education courses, events, and resources to support massage therapists and bodyworkers as they enhance their lives and practices. Contact her at ce@abmp.com. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com American Massage Conference: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA American Massage Conference Get ready to immerse yourself in the excitement as the American Massage Conference (AMC) arrives to Disney Springs near Orlando, Florida (May 16th-18th, 2025)! With a legacy of 17 successful years in Ontario, Canada, this premier event, proudly hosted by ONE Concept Conferences and expertly produced by Massage Therapy Media (MTM), boasts a lineup of presenters from across the nation and around the globe. The American Massage Conference began in Atlanta in 2011 and has been hosted through the years in San Diego, Chicago, and Virginia Beach. The conference provides educational opportunities with engaging one-, two-, three- and four-hour class formats, networking opportunities, masterminds, MTM Talks, demonstrations, and an extensive exhibitor tradeshow. Mark your calendars for an unforgettable experience filled with education, networking, and the celebration of massage therapy excellence! ABMP members receive a special discount to attend this in-person conference—log in to your ABMP account to access the discount code and register today. Website: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences

Apr 1, 2025 • 27min

Ep 496 – The Fascia Debate: More Than Just a Tissue with Rachelle Clauson and Nicole Trombley

Fascia has been a hot topic in both research and hands-on therapy for some time now. While the idea that massage therapists affect more than just muscle isn't new, defining exactly what "the other stuff" is has proven trickier than expected. Today, multiple definitions of fascia are debated worldwide. To bring clarity and foster better communication, a new, unified definition has been proposed in the Journal of Anatomy (January 2025). Join hosts Rachelle Clauson and Nicole Trombley, co-directors of AnatomySCAPES, as they dive into this fascinating, global discussion, sharing insights from their recent participation at the Winter School Research Conference in Padua, Italy, on this episode of The ABMP Podcast. Resources and Author Links: www.anatomyscapes.com/MATRIX for more information about "Journey Into the MATRIX: the Fascial System" dissection lab workshop! Curious about this new proposed definition of fascia? Check it out here in the Journal of Anatomy: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39814456/ Join AnatomySCAPES for their upcoming fascia-focused webinar Scar Tissue: A View Beneath the Surface. This webinar will take place on May 1 and you can register for this FREE on their website: website: www.anatomyscapes.com FB: facebook.com/AnatomySCAPES IG: instagram.com/anatomyscapes YouTube: youtube.com/@anatomyscapes Hosts: AnatomySCAPES Co-Directors, Rachelle Clauson and Nicole Trombley, are NCBTMB-approved continuing education providers and teach anatomy explorations for hands-on professionals online and in person. They co-author the "Anatomy for Touch" column in Massage & Bodywork magazine and enjoy helping therapists better understand how anatomy relates to what they are feeling through their sense of touch. Nicole Trombley: As a massage educator, Nicole draws on her passion for human biology to help therapists better understand the tissues under their hands. She owns and operates Equilibrio Massage in San Diego, CA, where she has specialized in massage for pregnancy and postpartum for the past 20 years. Rachelle Clauson: Rachelle loves teaching therapists about the structural organization and beauty of the human fascial system. She served as the Director of Creative and Administrative Affairs for the Fascial Net Plastination Project, and owns Flourish Bodywork, her private practice where she has offered hands-on bodywork in San Diego, CA, for the past 21 years. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com American Massage Conference: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA American Massage Conference Get ready to immerse yourself in the excitement as the American Massage Conference (AMC) arrives to Disney Springs near Orlando, Florida (May 16th-18th, 2025)! With a legacy of 17 successful years in Ontario, Canada, this premier event, proudly hosted by ONE Concept Conferences and expertly produced by Massage Therapy Media (MTM), boasts a lineup of presenters from across the nation and around the globe. The American Massage Conference began in Atlanta in 2011 and has been hosted through the years in San Diego, Chicago, and Virginia Beach. The conference provides educational opportunities with engaging one-, two-, three- and four-hour class formats, networking opportunities, masterminds, MTM Talks, demonstrations, and an extensive exhibitor tradeshow. Mark your calendars for an unforgettable experience filled with education, networking, and the celebration of massage therapy excellence! ABMP members receive a special discount to attend this in-person conference—log in to your ABMP account to access the discount code and register today. Website: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences

Mar 28, 2025 • 19min

Ep 495 – How Much Do I Need in an Emergency Fund: "Business or Pressure" with Allissa Haines

What if you suddenly couldn't work? Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines breaks down how much money you should have set aside in an emergency fund and the key factors that influence that number. From fixed expenses to income replacement strategies, she walks you through the options to help you stay financially secure in uncertain times. Resources: Barry Hatfield, Main Street Massage https://hudsonmassagetherapy.com/blog/ Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com

Mar 25, 2025 • 17min

Ep 494 – Lyme Disease Aftermath: "I Have a Client Who . . ." Pathology Conversations with Ruth Werner

A contributor sent me several descriptions of people dealing with the aftermath of Lyme disease, hoping for some answers to the questions this mysterious condition brings up. Sorry, no answers here—just more questions. Chronic Lyme disease, post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome, Long Lyme… whatever you call it, it's hard to get a handle on it. But here's a starting place. Resources: Long-Term Lyme Disease, Controversies and Challenges, July/Aug 2022 Development, P. (no date) 73: Long Term Lyme Disease: What Helps? (with Ruth Werner) | The Thinking Practitioner. Available at: https://www.thethinkingpractitioner.com/e/long-term-lyme-disease-what-helps-with-ruth-werner/ (Accessed: 24 March 2025). Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com American Massage Conference: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA American Massage Conference Get ready to immerse yourself in the excitement as the American Massage Conference (AMC) arrives to Disney Springs near Orlando, Florida (May 16th-18th, 2025)! With a legacy of 17 successful years in Ontario, Canada, this premier event, proudly hosted by ONE Concept Conferences and expertly produced by Massage Therapy Media (MTM), boasts a lineup of presenters from across the nation and around the globe. The American Massage Conference began in Atlanta in 2011 and has been hosted through the years in San Diego, Chicago, and Virginia Beach. The conference provides educational opportunities with engaging one-, two-, three- and four-hour class formats, networking opportunities, masterminds, MTM Talks, demonstrations, and an extensive exhibitor tradeshow. Mark your calendars for an unforgettable experience filled with education, networking, and the celebration of massage therapy excellence! ABMP members receive a special discount to attend this in-person conference—log in to your ABMP account to access the discount code and register today. Website: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences

Mar 18, 2025 • 11min

Ep 493 – But First . . . the TFL: "The Rebel MT" with Allison Denney

To get a solid understanding of the tensor fascia lata (TFL), it's important to first understand its function. But to understand its function, one needs to clearly grasp its tendon—the IT band. And to really know the IT band, it is necessary to first appreciate fascia. In this episode of The Rebel MT, join Allison Denney as she dives down the rabbit hole that is the TFL. But first, she needs to start a load of laundry. Host Bio: Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Rebel Massage Therapist: My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good. website: www.rebelmassage.com FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage email: rebelmassagetherapist@gmail.com

Mar 14, 2025 • 24min

Ep 492 – Organizing Your Personal Money: "Business or Pressure" with Allissa Haines

What happens in your personal budget inevitably impacts your business budget (and vice versa). Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines walks through the basics of creating a personal budget, which ultimately could help your business budget. Resources: Erin Copelan, Owner of Erin Copelan Massage: https://erincopelan.com/resources/ Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com

Mar 11, 2025 • 23min

Ep 491 – Common Challenges and How to Overcome Them with Kristin Coverly

Join Kristin Coverly as she asks massage and bodywork experts Les Sweeney, Whitney Lowe, and Ruth Werner "What's a common challenge for you and how do you overcome it?" Gain inspiration you can immediately apply to your personal and professional lives! Resources: ABMP Education Center: https://www.abmp.com/learn/ ABMP CE Summit: Neck https://www.abmp.com/summit Todoist App: https://www.todoist.com/ Book: "The 5 Second Rule" by Mel Robbins, https://www.melrobbins.com/5secondrule Video: "The 5 Second Rule Explained" https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhW2xUEb-B-ZBONmUi1m7h10c4x_RVEeT Kristin Coverly Kristin Coverly, LMT is a massage therapist, educator, and the director of professional education at ABMP. She loves creating continuing education courses, events, and resources to support massage therapists and bodyworkers as they enhance their lives and practices. Contact her at ce@abmp.com. Les Sweeney Les Sweeney is the President and CEO of ABMP. For questions about this episode reach out by emailing expectmore@abmp.com Ruth Werner Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. Whitney Lowe Whitney Lowe is a known authority in the field of massage therapy, with a 36-year career marked by clinical work, research, publications, and teaching in advanced massage principles. He specializes in treating pain and injuries using massage and is one of the pioneers of the orthopedic massage approach. Lowe's Orthopedic Massage Program stands out in its engaging and accessible design and comprehensive curriculum. Students, whether learning online or in-person, praise Lowe for his approachable style and personalized training. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com American Massage Conference: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA American Massage Conference Get ready to immerse yourself in the excitement as the American Massage Conference (AMC) arrives to Disney Springs near Orlando, Florida (May 16th-18th, 2025)! With a legacy of 17 successful years in Ontario, Canada, this premier event, proudly hosted by ONE Concept Conferences and expertly produced by Massage Therapy Media (MTM), boasts a lineup of presenters from across the nation and around the globe. The American Massage Conference began in Atlanta in 2011 and has been hosted through the years in San Diego, Chicago, and Virginia Beach. The conference provides educational opportunities with engaging one-, two-, three- and four-hour class formats, networking opportunities, masterminds, MTM Talks, demonstrations, and an extensive exhibitor tradeshow. Mark your calendars for an unforgettable experience filled with education, networking, and the celebration of massage therapy excellence! ABMP members receive a special discount to attend this in-person conference—log in to your ABMP account to access the discount code and register today. Website: https://www.massagetherapymedia.com/conferences

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