
Democracy Paradox
Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.
Latest episodes

Sep 5, 2023 • 48min
Deng Xiaoping is Not Who You Think He is. Joseph Torigian on Leadership Transitions in China and the Soviet Unio
This podcast discusses the complexities of leadership transitions in authoritarian regimes, challenging commonly held beliefs about Deng Xiaoping's role in starting the Reform and Opening policy. It explores policy changes and leadership transitions in China and the Soviet Union, and delves into the complex emotions towards leaders like Stalin and Mao. The podcast also provides a comparative analysis of China and the Soviet Union in terms of transitions of power in authoritarian regimes, and discusses the unresolved legacies of Mao and Stalin.

Aug 29, 2023 • 52min
Robert Kaplan on the Politics of the Past and Future of the Greater Middle East
Robert Kaplan discusses the challenges of developing political institutions in the Greater Middle East, the distinctiveness of the region, its significance as a battleground for civilizations, the failure of the Arab Spring, Turkey's potential for democratization, politics and potential for improvement in Iraq, Ethiopia's inclusion in the Greater Middle East, and the role of the United States and China. The speaker also explains why Israel was excluded from their book on the Middle East.

Aug 22, 2023 • 40min
Is India Still a Democracy? Rahul Verma Emphatically Says Yes
India should be understood as a test case of democracy outside the Western world.Rahul VermaAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Rahul Verma is a fellow at the Centre for Policy Research in New Delhi. He is also Visiting Assistant Professor in the Department of Political Science, Ashoka University. Recently, he wrote “The Exaggerated Death of Indian Democracy” in the recent Journal of Democracy.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:44India's Democracy Paradox - 2:24Reconciling Illiberalism - 15:54Sources of Indian Democratic Deficits - 20:02Overstating and Understating Indian Democracy - 30:50Key Links"The Exaggerated Death of Indian Democracy" in Journal of Democracy by Rahul VermaCentre for Policy Research Follow Rahul Verma on Twitter @rahul_tvermaDemocracy Paradox PodcastAshutosh Varshney on India. Democracy in Hard PlacesChristophe Jaffrelot on Narendra Modi and Hindu NationalismMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Aug 15, 2023 • 50min
Cass Sunstein on Interpreting the US Constitution
It would be a miracle if the original understanding of the Constitution just landed time and time again with the views in 2023 of the right-wing of the Republican Party. That would be too amazing a coincidence. That's more than troublesome.Cass SunsteinAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Cass Sunstein is the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard Law School. During Obama’s first term he was the Administrator for the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. He is the author of dozens of books including Nudge(with Richard Thaler) and The World According to Star Wars. His most recent book is How to Interpret the Constitution.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:38Thinking about the Constitution - 3:06Different Interpretations - 10:44Textualism - 24:07Amendment or Interpretation - 37:23Key LinksHow to Interpret the Constitution by Cass SunsteinThe World According to Star Wars by Cass SunsteinFollow Cass Sunstein on Twitter @CassSunsteinDemocracy Paradox PodcastJoseph Fishkin on the Constitution, American History, and Economic InequalityDonald Horowitz on the Formation of Democratic ConstitutionsMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Aug 8, 2023 • 43min
Marc Plattner Has Quite a Bit to Say About Democracy
I think we have a more complex notion of what democracy is. - Marc PlattnerAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Marc Plattner is the founding coeditor of the Journal of Democracy and the founding codirector of the National Endowment for Democracy’s International Forum for Democratic Studies. Until 2016, he also served as NED’s vice president for research and studies, and from 1984 to 1989 he was NED’s director of program. He is the author of Democracy Without Borders? Global Challenges to Liberal Democracy (2008) and of Rousseau’s State of Nature(1979). His essays and reviews on a wide range of international and public policy issues have appeared in numerous books and journals, and he has coedited with Larry Diamond more than two dozen books on contemporary issues relating to democracy in the Journal of Democracy book series.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:48Democratic Consensus - 2:32Liberalism and Democracy - 10:26Democratic Threats - 20:58Governance - 28:51Key Links"Why Ukraine Is Critical to Rebuilding Our Democratic Consensus" in the Journal of Democracy by Marc Plattner"Democracy Embattled" in the Journal of Democracy by Marc Plattner"Liberalism and Democracy: Can’t Have One Without the Other" in Foreign Affairs by Marc PlattnerDemocracy Paradox PodcastAnne Applebaum on Autocracy, IncLarry Diamond on Supporting Democracy in the World and at HomeMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Aug 1, 2023 • 54min
Is McKinsey and Company a Threat to Democracy? Michael Forsythe Shares His Reporting
It's too simplistic to call it an evil company. There are certainly a lot of very good people that work there. It's just the system itself and the corporation itself and the system that it's embedded in is what causes the problems.Michael ForsytheAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Michael Forsythe is a reporter on the investigations team at The New York Times. Until February 2017 he was a correspondent in the Hong Kong office, focusing on the intersection of money and politics in China. He is the author (along with Walt Bogdanich) of When McKinsey Comes to Town: the Hidden Influence of the World's Most Powerful Consulting Firm.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:35Who is McKinsey & Company? - 3:14Is it Anti-Democratic? - 17:55Working with Autocrats - 34:17Can it Change? - 44:33Key LinksWhen McKinsey Comes to Town: The Hidden Influence of the World's Most Powerful Consulting Firm by Walt Bogdanich and Michael Forsythe"How McKinsey Lost Its Way in South Africa" in The New York Times by Walt Bogdanich and Michael ForsytheFollow Michael Forsythe on Twitter @PekingMikeDemocracy Paradox PodcastAnne Applebaum on Autocracy, IncSamuel Woolley on Bots, Artificial Intelligence, and Digital PropagandaMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jul 25, 2023 • 52min
Sergei Guriev Revisits Spin Dictators
Spin dictators have fewer political prisoners, fewer political killings. This is good. This is really good. On the other hand, we want to tell everybody that they are still dictators.Sergei GurievAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Sergei Guriev is a professor of Economics at Sciences Po in Paris. He was a former chief economist at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development and the former rector of the New Economic School in Moscow. He is the coauthor (along with Daniel Treisman) of Spin Dictators: The Changing Face of Tyranny in the 21st Century.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:46Spin Dictatorships and Fear Dictatorships - 3:12Popular Support - 25:21Putin - 39:44Beyond Spin Dictatorship - 43:49Key LinksSpin Dictators: The Changing Face of Tyranny in the 21st Century by Sergei Guriev and Daniel Treisman"Informational Autocrats" in the Journal of Economic Perspectives by Sergei Guriev and Daniel TreismanFollow Sergei Guriev on Twitter @sgurievDemocracy Paradox PodcastAnne Applebaum on Autocracy, IncLarry Bartels Says Democracy Erodes from the TopMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jul 18, 2023 • 58min
Berk Esen and Sebnem Gumuscu on the Disappointing Elections in Turkey... or How Democratic (or Autocratic) is Turkey Really?
Elections are not free or fair, but they matter greatly because this is how Erdoğan comes to power and stays in power and in this case he was almost about to lose that power.Sebnem GumuscuSupport Democracy Paradox on Podurama. Listen here.Access Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Berk Esen is an assistant professor of political science at Sabancı University. Sebnem Gumuscu is an associate professor of political science at Middlebury College. Their recent paper in the Journal of Democracy is “How Erdoğan’s Populism Won Again.”Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:33Democracy in Turkey - 3:30The Opposition - 21:36The AKP - 27:40Is Democracy Lost? - 41:01Key Links"How Erdoğan’s Populism Won Again" in Journal of Democracy by Berk Esen and Sebnem GumuscuDemocratic Erosion: A Research, Teaching, & Policy CollaborationDemocracy or Authoritarianism: Islamist Governments in Turkey, Egypt, and Tunisia by Sebnem GumuscuDemocracy Paradox PodcastDan Slater on Thailand’s Revolutionary ElectionAnne Applebaum on Autocracy, IncMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jul 11, 2023 • 55min
Hal Brands Thinks China is a Declining Power... Here's Why that's a Problem
The most dangerous states in the international system aren't necessarily revisionist powers that think that their trajectory points continually upward. It's those countries that have been growing, rising for a long time, and then fear that they are peaking and are about to decline. Those are the countries that are inclined to take the biggest risks to try to improve their position in the the here and now before things get worse for them in the future.Hal BrandsAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Hal Brands is the Henry A. Kissinger Distinguished Professor of Global Affairs at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. He is the coauthor (with Michael Beckley) of Danger Zone: The Coming Conflict with China and the author of The Twilight Struggle: What the Cold War Teaches Us About Great-Power Rivalry Today.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:43Peaking Power Theory - 3:12The Original Cold War - 22:28China as a Peaking Power - 31:14American Policy Toward China - 41:56Key LinksDanger Zone: The Coming Conflict with China by Hal Brands and Michael BeckleyThe Twilight Struggle: What the Cold War Teaches Us about Great-Power Rivalry Today by Hal Brands"China’s Threat to Global Democracy" in Journal of Democracy by Hal Brands and Michael BeckleyDemocracy Paradox PodcastJosh Chin on China’s Surveillance StateElizabeth Economy in a Wide Ranging Conversation About ChinaMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on Democracy Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jul 4, 2023 • 52min
Natasha Wheatley Raises Some Really Difficult Questions About Sovereignty
My book is in some ways trying to help us see not only the kind of deep intermingling of pre-modern and modern ideas of sovereignty, but how we repeat some of those more fantastical attributes of sovereignty that we might otherwise presume to be long gone remnants of a more superstitious or religious age.Natasha WheatleyAccess Bonus Episodes on PatreonMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Natasha Wheatley is an assistant professor of history at Princeton University. She is the author of The Life and Death of States: Central Europe and the Transformation of Modern Sovereignty.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:40The State as Modern and Pre-Modern - 2:52The Habsbug Empire - 9:21Collapse of an Empire - 24:09The State and International Law - 40:55Key LinksThe Life and Death of States: Central Europe and the Transformation of Modern Sovereignty by Natasha WheatleyLearn More About Natasha WheatleyFollow Natasha Wheatley on Twitter @natasha_wheatlDemocracy Paradox PodcastAnna Grzymala-Busse on the Sacred Foundations of Modern PoliticsTom Ginsburg Shares his Thoughts on Democracy and International LawMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show
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