Shift Key with Robinson Meyer and Jesse Jenkins

​​Shift Key is off for the holidays, but we hope you’ll enjoy this classic episode.Rooftop solar is four times more expensive in America than it is in other countries. It’s also good for the climate. Should we even care about its high cost?Yes, says Severin Borenstein, an economist and the director of the Energy Policy Institute at the University of California, Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. In a 2024 blog post, he argued that the high cost of rooftop solar will shift nearly $4 billion onto the bills of low- and middle-income Californians who don’t have rooftop solar. Similar forces could soon spread the cost-shift problem across the country.On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with Borenstein about who pays for rooftop solar, why power bills are going up everywhere, and about whether the government should take over electric utilities. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:Shift Key’s rooftop solar series, featuring Mary Powell, Severin Borenstein, and Heatmap’s own Emily PontecorvoJesse’s distributed energy research at MITAustralia’s Solar Choice Price IndexMore on Texas’ Griddy debacleLeah Stokes et al. on utilities’ climate record--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Emily Pontecorvo is a staff writer at Heatmap known for her climate and energy reporting, while Matthew Zeitlin dives into energy technologies and policy. They discuss predictions for 2026, including how Democrats might shift their relationship with the oil and gas industry. The panel also tackles the future of geothermal projects, the nuances of heat pump regulations in California, and key developments in renewable energy deployment. They forecast rising electricity prices and potential political shifts that could reshape the energy landscape.

Mark Fitzgerald, President and CEO of Eavor, brings 35 years of oil and gas experience to the table, discussing innovative closed-loop geothermal technology. He shares insights on how their system works without fracturing, the successful Geretsreid project in Germany, and the potential for zero-carbon energy. Fitzgerald highlights the lessons from the oil industry that apply to geothermal, emphasizing the transition to sustainable energy and Eavor's commercial strategy for expanding into European markets. Tune in for a glimpse into the future of clean energy!

Ilaria Mazzocco, Deputy Director and Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, delves into the booming Chinese electric vehicle market. She reveals how countries are strategically welcoming or resisting Chinese EVs based on local economic goals. Mazzocco discusses buyer patterns in emerging markets, the challenges of charging infrastructure, and the implications for U.S. policies. With insights on Brazil's tariff changes and India's dependence on Chinese technology, she highlights the complexities of global EV competition and the future of industrial policy.

The discussion dives into the rollercoaster events of 2025, notably the impact of the Trump administration on climate policy. Surprising dynamics surrounding the repeal of the Inflation Reduction Act are explored, revealing unexpected partisan unity. The rapid increase in electricity demand fueled by data centers and AI raises important questions about future energy consumption. Compelling debates on EV policies highlight how changes in subsidies have affected sales and manufacturing. Finally, the hosts tackle the complexities of messaging and organizing for climate advocacy.

Dan Stein, founder and executive director of Giving Green, shares his insights on effective climate philanthropy. He discusses the five top nonprofits to support in 2025, emphasizing policy and technology as key drivers for change. Stein critiques the limitations of traditional dollars-per-ton models and highlights the need for systemic shifts rather than just measurable interventions. He also reflects on Bill Gates' recent pivot to poverty reduction and argues that while adaptation is important, mitigation remains critically underfunded.

In this discussion, guest Advait Arun, a senior associate at the Center for Public Enterprise and author of 'Bubble or Nothing', unpacks the complex financial dynamics between AI companies and the clean energy sector. He reveals the systemic risks tied to data centers and GPUs, emphasizing refinancing challenges and cash flow issues. Advait also explores the potential fallout from a market correction, the role of private credit, and how big tech might exploit distressed assets while smaller firms face hardships. Ultimately, he raises questions about the sustainability of this intricate landscape.

Matthew Zeitlin and Emily Pontecorvo from Heatmap unpack critical insights on recent electoral victories for Democrats. They delve into how electricity politics influenced the New Jersey governor's race and the significance of the Georgia public service commission race. The duo scrutinizes Bill Gates's climate memo, critiquing its focus on technology and affordability politics that may hinder ambitious climate action. They discuss the ramifications of voter sentiment toward utilities and the challenging dynamics of decarbonization in today's political landscape.

Lauri Myllyvirta, co-founder of the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, dives deep into China’s emissions landscape. He discusses whether the nation’s carbon emissions have peaked and contrasts its booming renewables growth with persistent coal use. Lauri reveals how rising industrial demand and a complex energy sector are critical drivers of emissions trends. They explore the electrification of transport and its benefits for urban air quality, along with the challenges in construction and steel sectors. Can China navigate its ambitious energy transition?

Apoorv Bhargava, CEO and co-founder of WeaveGrid, dives into the world of electric vehicles and their potential to support the electricity grid. He discusses how managed charging can reduce costs and why it should be as simple as paying a mobile bill. Apoorv highlights the importance of interoperability, comparing EVs to smartphones, and explains how AI is reshaping utility operations. The conversation also covers consumer willingness to embrace managed charging and the regulatory landscape needed to facilitate these innovations.