Heterodox Out Loud

What does it take to build a university where open inquiry is not just protected, but actively practiced? In this wide-ranging episode, University of Denver Chancellor Jeremy Haefner offers a rare, candid look at the challenges and opportunities of transforming campus culture in a polarized era. From institutional neutrality to civil discourse, from pluralism to DEI reform, Haefner shares how the University of Denver is attempting to lead higher education into its next chapter. Today, John Tomasi, President of Heterodox Academy, speaks with Haefner about DU’s ambitious initiatives aimed at strengthening the university’s core commitments to open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement. Haefner discusses the Denver Dialogues, a flagship program that brings scholars with divergent perspectives into sustained engagement with students; Debate Across the Curriculum, a faculty-led innovation that measurably shifts students’ readiness to engage across differences; and Spark Day, DU’s annual celebration of free expression and civil discourse. The conversation also probes deeply into Haefner’s decision to adopt a policy of institutional neutrality, the university’s response to the Trump Administration’s directives on DEI, and the complexities of balancing inclusion with the truth-seeking mission of the academy. Tune in to explore how universities can renew their mission, and why pluralism matters now more than ever. In This Episode:💥 Building a culture of open inquiry across an entire university.💥 The Denver Dialogues and pluralism-driven campus programming.💥 Evidence-based impacts of Debate Across the Curriculum.💥 Institutional neutrality and the Calvin Report tradition.💥 DEI reform and the challenge of aligning inclusion with open inquiry.💥 The launch of the National Academy for Free Expression and Pluralism. About Jeremy:Jeremy Haefner is the 19th Chancellor of the University of Denver, appointed to the role in 2019 after serving as the university’s provost and executive vice chancellor. He holds a PhD in mathematics from the University of Wisconsin–Madison, and began his academic career as a professor before moving into administrative leadership.Prior to joining DU, he served as provost and senior vice president for academic affairs at the Rochester Institute of Technology, and spent two decades at the University of Colorado–Colorado Springs in a variety of academic and administrative roles. His leadership work has included areas such as faculty development, research support, international education, and interdisciplinary program design.At the University of Denver, Haefner has overseen strategic efforts focused on academic transformation, civic engagement, student belonging, and the development of a comprehensive undergraduate experience. His tenure has included the launch of initiatives aimed at strengthening open inquiry and free expression on campus, alongside adjustments to institutional policy in response to changes in the legal and political landscape surrounding higher education.Follow Jeremy on X: https://x.com/DU_chancellor Follow Heterodox Academy on:Twitter: https://bit.ly/3Fax5DyFacebook: https://bit.ly/3PMYxfwLinkedIn: https://bit.ly/48IYeuJInstagram: https://bit.ly/46HKfUgSubstack: https://bit.ly/48IhjNF 🔗 Find out more about Heterodox Academy at: https://linktr.ee/heterodoxoutloud

Can colleges be engines of rigorous civil debate, or are self-censorship and fear stifling the next generation of thinkers? Today, we welcome Chancellor Andrew Martin of Washington University in St. Louis, a leading scholar and administrator recognized for reshaping institutional culture at the highest levels of academia. Chancellor Martin discusses his strategic initiatives to foster a climate of rigorous, principled debate and constructive disagreement at WashU, ranging from the creation of the "Dialogue Across Difference" program to groundbreaking admissions policies that increase socioeconomic and ideological diversity. He unpacks the recently released Vanderbilt–WashU Statement of Principles, a collaborative effort with Vanderbilt University, aimed at recommitting academic institutions to the foundational pillars of excellence, academic freedom, and free expression.  Explore how WashU’s Order of Liberty and cluster faculty hiring initiatives promote diverse perspectives, incorporating both liberal and civic virtue frameworks. Understand how institutional neutrality, along with dialogue and engagement, fosters a dynamic academic community. In This Episode:💥 The Vanderbilt–WashU Statement of Principles and institutional neutrality.💥 WashU’s Dialogue Across Difference program.💥 Admissions reforms and Pell Grant expansion for socioeconomic diversity.💥 The Order of Liberty Project and faculty hiring for ideological diversity.💥 Challenges and responsibilities of academic freedom and self-censorship. About Andrew:Andrew D. Martin is the 15th chancellor of Washington University in St. Louis, inaugurated on October 3, 2019. He previously served as dean of the College of Literature, Science, and the Arts at the University of Michigan from 2014 to 2018 and is a political scientist known for the Martin-Quinn scores used to study U.S. Supreme Court ideology. At WashU, he launched access initiatives, including the WashU Pledge and Gateway to Success, and moved the university to a no-loan undergraduate aid policy. In fall 2024, he co-signed a Statement of Principles with Vanderbilt Chancellor Daniel Diermeier, adopted by both universities’ boards, affirming free expression, academic freedom, and institutional neutrality. In September 2025, he launched the Ordered Liberty Project to advance academic freedom, viewpoint diversity, and civic education.Follow Andrew on X: https://x.com/washuchancellor Follow Heterodox Academy on:Twitter: https://bit.ly/3Fax5DyFacebook: https://bit.ly/3PMYxfwLinkedIn: https://bit.ly/48IYeuJInstagram: https://bit.ly/46HKfUgSubstack: https://bit.ly/48IhjNF 🔗 Find out more about Heterodox Academy at: https://linktr.ee/heterodoxoutloud

Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of 'Cross Purposes,' explores the surprising role of Christian values in American democracy. He argues that the decline in robust, virtue-based Christianity has fueled polarization and a crisis of trust. Through personal stories and Tocqueville's insights, he examines the connection between faith and civic life, advocating for a 'thick church' that fosters pluralism. The discussion also highlights the challenges facing higher education and the necessity to revive core values to promote a healthy democratic society.

Michael Roth, President of Wesleyan University and an advocate for liberal education, joins the discussion on the deteriorating trust in higher education. He explores the ideological divides and challenges universities face in retaining public confidence, particularly among conservatives. Roth critiques the lack of ideological diversity and the tension between DEI initiatives and open inquiry. The conversation raises pressing questions about maintaining academic relevance and the impact of political interventions on university integrity.

In this thought-provoking discussion, Simon Cullen, Assistant Teaching Professor of Philosophy at Carnegie Mellon University, delves into his pioneering work with the AI platform 'Sway.' This innovative tool promotes constructive disagreement among students on controversial topics by pairing them with opposing views. Cullen shares fascinating insights from empirical research showing how Sway enhances students’ openness and analytical reasoning. He emphasizes the importance of embracing dialogue on divisive issues and cultivating a culture of intellectual humility in academia.

In this engaging discussion, Jukka Savolainen, a sociology professor at Wayne State University, tackles the pressing issues within the field, including ideological bias and a lack of viewpoint diversity. He shares his journey from Finland to the U.S. and critiques the influence of postmodernism on sociology. Jukka emphasizes the need for empirical rigor and discusses historical government interventions, like the reformation of Copenhagen's sociology department. He calls for unity among sociologists to foster open inquiry and diverse perspectives in research.

Jenna and Benjamin Storey, senior fellows at the American Enterprise Institute, delve into the waning trust in American universities and propose ways to rekindle public faith in higher education. They discuss the drift from civic missions, the alarming decline in ideological diversity on campuses, and innovative models like Schools of Civic Thought. The Storeys emphasize the necessity for universities to foster open inquiry and articulate a clearer civic purpose amidst political scrutiny, championing a reinvigorated liberal education for a polarized society.

Joe Cohn, the Policy Director at Heterodox Academy and an expert in civil liberties, dives into the complex interplay between federal policies and academic freedom. He discusses Trump's education agenda, examining its effects on free speech and the enforcement of Title VI against discrimination. Cohn emphasizes the need for procedural rigor to balance institutional autonomy with necessary oversight. He advocates for persuasion over censorship in tackling bigotry and highlights the vital role of international students in enriching campus discourse.

In a thought-provoking discussion, Cary Nelson, Jubilee Professor Emeritus at the University of Illinois, delves into the troubling relationship between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism in academia. He analyzes how campus dynamics and social media amplify these tensions, affecting Jewish students' identities and safety. Nelson urges for a return to universities as platforms for open dialogue, exploring the historical shifts in societal attitudes toward Israel and calling for greater understanding amidst the complexities of political discourse.

Ivan Oransky, co-founder of Retraction Watch and a distinguished journalist at NYU, dives into how Trump’s executive orders are reshaping scientific research. He discusses the chilling effects on academic freedom, expressing concern over censorship and self-censorship among researchers. Oransky explores the historical context of government funding, tracing its impact on scientific priorities and independence. He warns of the growing influence of politics on inquiry and the potential consequences for the future of scientific discovery.