How Can We Fix Our Universities Without Burning Them Down? With Michael Roth | Ep 37

Jun 3, 2025

Michael Roth, President of Wesleyan University and an advocate for liberal education, joins the discussion on the deteriorating trust in higher education. He explores the ideological divides and challenges universities face in retaining public confidence, particularly among conservatives. Roth critiques the lack of ideological diversity and the tension between DEI initiatives and open inquiry. The conversation raises pressing questions about maintaining academic relevance and the impact of political interventions on university integrity.

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INSIGHT

Declining Trust and Elitism

Trust in higher education has sharply declined, especially among conservatives, due to a mix of general institutional distrust and orchestrated delegitimation efforts.
Elitism in universities fuels resentment, as anti-elitism has become a powerful political currency.

INSIGHT

Grievance Fuels Distrust in Universities

Grievance is a potent force that drives much of the distrust in universities, sparked by feelings of exclusion and condescension.
Higher education contributes to this by sometimes cultivating snootiness and emphasizing social status from educational pedigree.

INSIGHT

Ideological Homogeneity Issues

The steep decline in ideological diversity on faculties is a serious educational problem that undermines the academic environment.
This ideological homogeneity does not fully explain grievance but contributes to it being a real issue in universities.

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Trust in universities has cratered, ideological divisions are deepening, and the future of higher education is hotly contested. How do we repair our academic institutions without tearing them down entirely? Today on Heterodox Out Loud, host John Tomasi welcomes Michael Roth, President of Wesleyan University, historian, and esteemed thought leader on liberal education, for a frank and probing dialogue.

Drawing on recent Gallup polling data, Michael and John examine the collapse of public trust in higher education, particularly among conservatives, and the orchestrated efforts across the spectrum to delegitimize academic institutions. Michael discusses the double bind facing universities: the hard-won gains in gender, racial, and religious inclusion overlaying a stark decline in viewpoint and ideological diversity among faculty and students.

The discussion traverses the enduring tensions between diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives and the imperative of open inquiry. Roth critiques both anti-elitist grievance-mongering and the insularity of academic circles, arguing for an educational environment that prizes rigorous debate, intellectual pluralism, and genuine mutual respect. Together, Tomasi and Roth confront thorny questions: How do universities maintain their relevance in a polarized society? Is the narrowing of acceptable discourse stifling academic innovation? And what role should university leaders play amid mounting political interventions and societal pressures?

In This Episode:

💥 Declining trust in higher education due to perceptions of elitism and delegitimation

💥 Grievance politics influencing perspectives from both the left and right

💥 Reduced viewpoint and ideological diversity among faculty members

💥 Overreaching DEI initiatives leading to unintended consequences

💥 Structural barriers hindering ideological pluralism in hiring and admissions practices

💥 University leadership's role in managing political pressure and rebuilding trust through debate

About Michael:

Michael S. Roth, a historian, curator, and advocate for liberal education, has served as the 16th president of Wesleyan University since July 1, 2007. An alumnus of Wesleyan (Class of 1978), graduating summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, before earning a Ph.D. in history from Princeton University in 1984.

Before returning to Wesleyan, Roth held several prominent academic positions, including president of the California College of the Arts, associate director of the Getty Research Institute, and founding director of the Scripps College Humanities Institute. His scholarly work focuses on how individuals and societies interpret the past, and he has authored numerous books, such as Beyond the University: Why Liberal Education Matters and Safe Enough Spaces: A Pragmatist’s Approach to Inclusion, Free Speech, and Political Correctness on College Campuses.

A vocal proponent of academic freedom, Roth has been recognized for his defense of higher education institutions against political pressures. In 2025, he received the PEN/Benenson Courage Award for his commitment to upholding the independence of colleges and universities.

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