
Leading Learning Podcast
The market for continuing education, professional development, and lifelong learning is large and evolving rapidly. Competition is growing and learners have more options than ever. The Leading Learning Podcast is for learning business professionals who want to thrive in this new landscape. In each episode, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele provide actionable insights based on their own deep experience and expertise or invite in experts and practitioners to share their perspectives.
Latest episodes

Apr 16, 2024 • 31min
405: The Science of Engagement with Clark Quinn
We often hear learning businesses say they want to better engage their learners. But what is engagement, and how does it work? In this episode, Leading Learning Podcast co-host Jeff Cobb digs into those questions with Clark Quinn, executive director of Quinnovation and author of Make It Meaningful: Taking Learning Design from Instructional to Transformational. Jeff and Clark talk about engagement and motivation; learners’ cognitive, affective, and conative involvement; and how the cognitive aspect gets more than its fair share of emphasis. They also talk about the role of emotion in learning, about practice and feedback, and about how the ability to make better decisions is ultimately the desired outcome of most learning experiences. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode405.

Apr 9, 2024 • 35min
404: Nondisruptive Creation, Part I
Strategy is one of the five fundamental domains in the Learning Business Maturity Model. And most learning business leaders know that strategy is important. But truly understanding strategy and formulating intelligent strategy? That’s trickier. To help with that understanding and formulation, in this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, number 404, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele offer an audio book report on Beyond Disruption: Innovate and Achieve Growth Without Displacing Industries, Companies, or Jobs by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne of blue ocean fame. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode404.

Apr 2, 2024 • 25min
403: Who or What Is Tagoras?
You can think of this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast as an origin story. Co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele talk about the relationship between Leading Learning and Tagoras, about what Tagoras is and does, and about the start of Leading Learning. Along the way they touch on the kinds of things that learning businesses need to be able to do, whether through the skills and knowledge of their internal team or by looking for outside support. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode403.

Mar 26, 2024 • 49min
402: A Curious Conversation About AI with Julian Stodd
Join guest Julian Stodd in a thought-provoking discussion on generative AI, exploring its philosophical depth and societal implications. Discover insights on working out loud, embracing failure, and the impact of AI on knowledge creation. Dive into 'Engines of Engagement' to explore the intersection of AI and learning science, sparking debates on societal and organizational impacts. Uncover how AI enhances learning experiences and supports lifelong learning, while maintaining authenticity in the writing process.

Mar 19, 2024 • 27min
401: Developing Business for a Learning Business
Explore the essential role of business development skills in a successful learning business. Learn about the benefits of strategic partnerships and relationship cultivation for sustainable growth. Discover the importance of nurturing customer relationships and adopting a consultative approach. Dive into the advantages of collaborative partnerships with academic programs and other sectors. Understand the significance of investing in business development for maximizing reach and impact.

Mar 12, 2024 • 29min
400: 20 x 20 Vision for Lifelong Learning
We’re at an important point in time for lifelong learning. Much is shifting and unsettled in how humans live and work. That unsettledness means opportunity if your learning business is willing to grapple with the uncertainty and shape a vision for its role in the lifelong learning market. In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele look at the current lifelong learning landscape, near-future trends, and the implications—and opportunities—for learning businesses. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode400.

Mar 5, 2024 • 34min
399: Transformational Partnerships with Bruce Rosenthal
To realize their fundamental mission of developing and delivering learning products and services, learning businesses need revenue. Along with direct-to-learner fees for enrollments and registrations, sponsorship dollars are often a key part of that revenue equation. In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Bruce Rosenthal. Bruce helps organizations create sponsorships and partnerships that increase revenue and value for all stakeholders. Jeff and Bruce talk about sponsorship versus partnership; the importance of thinking of “partner” as both noun and verb; why logos, visibility, and recognition are no longer a compelling value proposition; the growing emphasis on ROI and other trends in sponsorship; and COVID’s longtail impact on how sponsors engage. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode399.

Feb 27, 2024 • 27min
398: The Difficulty of Desirable Difficulties
Learning businesses care about creating effective learning. Doing so is at the heart of why learning businesses exist. But what happens when effective learning practices clash with what learners want or what they believe is effective? That clash is precisely what Leading Learning Podcast co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele explore in this episode, which looks at desirable difficulties and the specific difficulty desirable difficulties pose for learning businesses. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode398.

Feb 20, 2024 • 18min
397: Learning and Education
Learning, education, and professional development are not the same. Similar, yes, interrelated even, but fundamentally and importantly different. If learning businesses take the parochial view of learning as merely education, they unnecessarily limit their impact and their possibilities. In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele explore the strategic importance of recognizing the differences between learning, education, and professional development. Learning encompasses informal experiences in addition to formal education and professional development, making it the broadest, more encompassing term. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode397.

Feb 14, 2024 • 37min
396: Storytelling for Businesses with Park Howell
Everybody loves a good story. It’s what draws us to good books, good movies, good podcasts. And we know that good stories can draw prospective learners to us and the learning experiences we offer. But telling a good story is harder than it looks, particularly in the realm of business, where often too much emphasis is put on numbers, data, and building a case rather than appealing to emotions, human connection, familiar patterns, and satisfying hooks. If you listen to this episode, you’ll get a mini class in how to tell a good story for your learning business. Park Howell is the founder of the Business of Story. Park comes from the marketing world, where he ran his own advertising agency for 20 years. One of his big a-has is the and-but-therefore (ABT) agile narrative framework. Leading Learning Podcast co-host Celisa Steele talks with Park about the power of storytelling, its connection to how the human brain works, and how the ABT framework works at a conceptual and a practical level. Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode396.