Asia Business Podcast

Connect with Chenchao Liu on LinkedInVisit SILREALs websiteVisit Asia Business Podcast Full show Transcript below Summary and TimestampsOverviewIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Chenchao Liu, the founder of SILREAL, a management consulting firm focusing on healthcare and Sino-European business exchanges. Chenchao shares his journey from China to Germany, his transition from science to business, and the mission of bridging the healthcare sectors between China and the West. They discuss the unique collaboration opportunities in pharmaceuticals and healthcare services between China and Europe, navigating political barriers, and the impact of regulations like IP protection and data sharing laws. The conversation delves into the challenges and trends reshaping the industry in China, including the aging population, health consciousness post-COVID, and the dynamics of foreign companies adapting to China's volume-based pricing system. Timestamps00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest00:41 Chenchao Liu's Journey from China to Germany and Founding SILREAL01:49 Bridging Sino-European Business in Healthcare02:54 Exploring Recent Projects and the Impact of SILREAL's Work05:03 Opportunities for China-Europe Collaboration in Healthcare08:20 Navigating Political Barriers in Sino-European Relations16:23 The Impact of Regulations on Cross-Border Healthcare Collaboration21:15 Macro Trends Shaping the Healthcare Industry in China31:16 Concluding Remarks and How to Connect with Chenchao Liu TranscriptArt: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. Today we have the absolute pleasure of being joined by Chenchao Liu. Chenchao is the founder of SILREAL, a management consulting firm specializing in the healthcare sector [00:00:15] and fostering Sino European business exchanges.Art: Welcome Chenchao.Chenchao: Thank you, Art. Thank you for having me. Art: Yeah, we've been talking. We've been talking a few times over the last couple of years or so, and [00:00:30] it just seemed natural that we do a podcast. We've had long conversations, the two of us just talking about some of these things we're going to get into.Art: So it's, like I said, it's natural. We just record an episode about it. And, you were born in China, but you've lived in Germany for more than 20 [00:00:45] years now. And I was wondering if you could share a bit about your own kind Your own story behind the founding of SILREAL and then also help the audience understand a bit more kind of work you do to bridge the European Chinese markets in life [00:01:00] sciences.Chenchao: Yeah, thank you, Art. Thank you for really inviting me and I respect and follow your work for a while and appreciate that I could share some of my story here. Yeah, as you mentioned, yeah, I was born in [00:01:15] China in Qingdao, historical city connected to Germany. And I came to Germany when I was 13. So I went to elementary school, and I studied chemistry in Munich.Chenchao: And had very devoted concentration interested into [00:01:30] science and was very active. I high school already for Olympics and later for Mustang Institute ATH. But I realized later that due to the internship I did with consulting firms that I'm really belong to the business world.Chenchao: I [00:01:45] want to work with people. I want to be in real impact making. And yeah, so I after graduation, I went to consulting firm, I did a lot of projects for hospitals and also for private equities [00:02:00] in 2017 when I realized that I wanted to Do more things with China. I said to myself look into the mirror.Chenchao: You cannot just look like this way. It's better that you could do something content wise with the country [00:02:15] where you're from. And yeah, I started to advise some Chinese firms who come to Europe and vice versa. And yeah, and what is really entrepreneurial journey. Nobody has taught me how to build business, so really try and [00:02:30] arrow and yeah, I think it's combination of hard work, persistent and also support of others.Chenchao: We have thright and have again, some traction, have project from federal menstrual health and the state governments help some big [00:02:45] pharma like AstraZeneca. And yeah, I really want to be the bridge in life science healthcare between China and the West. Art: And can you talk a bit about some of the sort of the projects that you've worked on recently and[00:03:00] or so, some, so give the audience a really some context for some actual to the extent you're allowed to talk about it, but I know also we'll get into it.Art: You've got quite a. Number of wonderful endorsements on your websites from the projects you've worked on, but just [00:03:15] to give the audience a bit of wrap their heads around the actual kind of consulting work and so forth that you do. Chenchao: Yeah, thank you, Arthur. So basically, we have three main sectors of industries.Chenchao: We serve for health [00:03:30] care, life science and public sector. We have done digitalization project for health care providers in Germany. I helped them to modernize their 6000 employee. System of hrs and consolidate over [00:03:45] 20 entities. And also to transform how they track employee working time and management of the post recruitment retention.Chenchao: So other project we have done is really to bring [00:04:00] public and private sector together to tackle Corona diseases. To learn from each other between German China when it's come to for example, COPD. I think the strengths we can bring here is really to understand the [00:04:15] policy, understand the legal justice nature.Chenchao: But also to bridge, what does it make the difference between how Germany and China handle different disease areas. And lastly, as I mentioned for the government public sector we do [00:04:30] oftentimes delegation trips for ministry level for experts from insurance for hospital representative to really to understand how big countries like China, Israel and the U.Chenchao: S. Playing around in the [00:04:45] digitalization. And that's why I think it's very crucial especially in this age to have a active dialogue because I do think, as you mentioned, the before the trip for by the chancellor, there's this avenue of collaboration [00:05:00] is still very strong within the healthcare.Art: Yeah, let's jump into that, jump ahead into that question. The, in an ideal scenario, devoid of political barriers, and we'll get into those, maybe some of those political barriers in a 2nd, but, what are some of the [00:05:15] unique opportunities for collaboration between China and Europe in the, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology.Art: Health care services, because it seems like there's you've already hit on it a bit. There's naturally a lot of synergies. There's just by listening to some of the projects [00:05:30] you've supported so far. So without politics in the mix, what would be the, some of the more of those kind of natural synergies between between China and Europe in these sectors?Chenchao: Yeah, thank you. I think due to a large population, 1. [00:05:45] 5 billion in people in China, and it's already is the second biggest market in healthcare and pharmaceuticals and it's posed to become the biggest one but if you look at the per capital expenditure China is still lagging very [00:06:00] far behind.Chenchao: It's only around 10 percent or less, Of that expenditure per capita compared to European level. So there's a lot of to catch up and I think aging population China and also very high pressure for, [00:06:15] a younger generation birth rate. So there's a lot of issues within the society and also the plague by the chronic diseases in various forms.Chenchao: I just mentioned COPD, but there's also other ways and the cancer [00:06:30] and, uh, heart related diseases. And I think this is also very important after the COVID, like how to also in the community diseases are prevented. Measurement and the very [00:06:45] important role China can have. So I think this is really laid the ground for multinationals to really look into China and the force of their expansion.Chenchao: And despite all the attention we have touched on, I think there's a lot [00:07:00] of company. Are just announced even further and stronger presence in China, like as Seneca's new research facility in Hong Kong. In Heim also mentioned the billion of investment [00:07:15] going on. So there is still very strong sense that the market due to the high population, due to also the infrastructure because China is still at home.Chenchao: of a very strong, supplier for biosimilar and and [00:07:30] APIs for big pharmaceuticals around globe. So it's very crucial to have a healthy relationship with China to keep supply chain safe and secure. Art: Yeah, and that's actually in contrast a little bit to what's been going on in the U. S. [00:07:45] these days.Art: It's more and more Chinese companies are potentially Congress is in an election year here in the U. S., as is looking at more and more Chinese companies. And now that's extended to the bios and pharmaceutical sector as well, which is, I guess people thought might [00:08:00] happen, but maybe not so quickly.Art: So that's it seems like Europe is not it is quite different, which is I guess not surprising but that's been in the news here in the U. S. too. And it's living here in San Diego, California, where I know a lot of those, the Chinese companies and U. S. companies, [00:08:15] this is a place where they work together.Art: It's I don't know, a little bit disheartening to see that happening, but but I guess there's. Anyway, I won't get into the concerns but now that we do put let's say, we put politics to some of the tensions into the mix. How is that starting [00:08:30] at all to influence cooperation between China and Europe?Art: Like I said, China in the US, I think that's already definitely having an impact, but do you see that having an impact at all between China and Europe? Yeah, definitely. Are there are [00:08:45] big impacts. The question is like how, long term and how quantifiable other impacts. I think everything is put into perspective.Chenchao: I think compared to other industries health care amount climate are still Thank you. [00:09:00] Very strong, constructive avenue of collaboration, but I do agree with your assessment. There's a difference between US China, European China relationship, and I think underlined by the trip by Chancellor Scholz from [00:09:15] Germany with three ministers and all state secretary level people, three days.Chenchao: Very long stay. So it's a really strong signal not only to China, but to the rest of the world that we need a very strong dialogue. We need a very [00:09:30] strong, and the Stanford, even we cannot agree on everything on every issues. But I think this kind of. Very pragmatic approach that we need China also to solve major conflicts in Middle East in Ukraine, Russian conflict, [00:09:45] and others.Chenchao: I think this is just to serve, the best interests of the people who ultimately, At the say in the democracies in the West. So I think when it's come to industry politics I do believe that, of course [00:10:00] Europeans want to, have the access to Chinese market. At the same time, it's very critical.Chenchao: Look at at, also from the legislative and legal point of view, China. The IP laws, the cyber security laws, and also the [00:10:15] limitation data transfer. These are all the problems, especially also for R& D intensive industry like pharmaceuticals, biotech. And so this is a strong position for European part to get China more to create [00:10:30] a, a fair competition environment.Chenchao: So this has been a very strong agenda of the trip as well. I personally, as I said, I was organized of the delegation trip myself for the ministry level. And last year I was [00:10:45] invited for the delegation trip by the climate minister from Germany. So I do see a very strong willingness to collaborate.Chenchao: And to willingness to, to collaborate in field where common dialogue is [00:11:00] possible. And I'm very hopeful to see, and just to stay by Germany in June the economy, Mr. Habeck is going to China as well. So I do think that's within this year very crucial both to the election, as you mentioned, yes.Chenchao: [00:11:15] But also some very highly watched elections within the states in Germany. So yeah so China West relation has always been very significant. Art: Yeah, that's, I think there's, that's a great point. Look at that three days and high [00:11:30] level visits like that. And that's really, I don't think there's many other countries that do that.Art: So of course, certainly not the United States, but there's, that's that As you said, really would show a sign of commitment to the relationship and the markets [00:11:45] opportunities both ways even. And I did also read that Chancellor Schultz said that IP protection, you hit on it.Art: There is was maybe the chief concern of German companies. And I wonder if. We can get into that as a bit of a side [00:12:00] topic. Is that a is that still a concern for German companies in these sectors we've been talking about? Or is that more, let's say, in some of the traditional auto or other sectors that German companies have been also quite strong in is that I'm [00:12:15] talking about IP protection in China.Art: I know, because, of course, I practice law cross border there, and I can certainly. The audience, if they've been listening to me, know that I think that IP protection in China has gotten significantly better than it was [00:12:30]

Connect with Pilar on LinkedInVisit YCP SolidianceVisit Asia Business Podcast Full show Transcript below Summary and TimestampsOverviewIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Pilar Dieter, CEO of YCP Solidiance, an Asia-focused strategic advisory firm. They discuss the challenges and opportunities in the Asian market, focusing on China’s decreasing foreign direct investment (FDI) and the strategies for diversifying supply chains due to geopolitical tensions and supply chain resiliency. Pilar provides insights into the factors leading to net capital outflows from China, the impact of global perceptions on investment, and the shift toward domestic consumption driving growth in China. The conversation also covers the trend of businesses de-risking by moving operations from China to Southeast Asia, India, or nearshoring to places like Mexico, and how YCP Solidiance facilitates this transition. They delve into industry-specific shifts, the increasing interest of Chinese companies in outbound investment, and the importance of strategic and post-merger integration services in navigating the complexities of the Asian market. The episode wraps up with how companies can reach Pilar and YCP Solidiance for strategic advice and support. Timestamps00:00 Welcome to the Asia Business Podcast with Pilar Dieter00:57 Deep Dive into China's Business Landscape01:49 Navigating Supply Chain Resilience and Diversification03:21 The Future of Foreign Direct Investment in China06:05 De-risking Strategies for Global Supply Chains11:20 Exploring New Markets: The Shift in Asian Investment Patterns23:09 The Role of Strategic Advisory in Global Business Expansion28:07 M&A Trends in Asia: Insights and Opportunities36:03 Closing Thoughts and Contact Information TranscriptArt: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to another episode of the Asia business podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. And today we have the true pleasure of welcoming Pilar Dieter. She is the chief executive officer at YCP Salidians. YCP Salidians is an [00:00:15] Asia focused strategic advisory firm with 17 offices worldwide, predominantly in Asia.Art: Welcome, Pilar. Pilar: Thank you, Art. It's a true pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. Art: Yeah, we've talked about [00:00:30] doing this for a while now. And we both had recent visits to China. And so I think we've got plenty to talk about. We're gonna I think China is going to be a big part of what we talk about today.Art: But as we said at the top, your firm is a big presence all throughout Asia. And I think it's [00:00:45]going to be interesting to do a bit of comparison between different parts of that region and see what's going on. So I'm happy to get into it today and really looking forward to it. Pilar: Absolutely. I'm looking forward to the exchange as well.Art: Great. Let's off maybe with With China. And I [00:01:00] know you guys work a lot with the sort of the top fortune 500 companies there. But also you work with them throughout Asia and beyond. And we've seen a lot of statistics come out lately where looking at the net capital outflows from China after [00:01:15] years and years of inbound investment increasing year after year.Art: And do you see that trend reversing anytime soon? And if so, the trend of the negative outflows, negative inflows, I should say. Do you see that trend reversing [00:01:30] anytime soon? And if so, what sectors might it reverse in? Pilar: I think the way to determine whether or not this is something that would reverse is it's first important to understand why that F.Pilar: D. I. into China has decreased over the last few years. So there's a couple, [00:01:45] I would point to three things. Two are obvious, one might be a little less obvious. So I would point to number one, really the supply chain resiliency move. This concept of. Diversifying supply chains. This isn't a sudden thing.Pilar: We can track [00:02:00] this back to really 2016 2015 era, even before trade tariffs were starting to come into play. So a lot of conversation around why diversification matters in supply chains. That's 1 of the reasons that you're starting to see a little bit of that [00:02:15] decline in F. D. I. The other one, another obvious element is the geopolitical tension.Pilar: Lots of media attention that's driving and easily influencing the way that U. S. corporations or multinational corporations are really viewing China with a bit [00:02:30] more of a fine tooth comb before making really readily decisions to make big investment into China because of the beauty of the growing market and the size of the market.Pilar: But I'd say the third and maybe less obvious. Point that would be directed to why [00:02:45] FDI in China is decreasing is when you actually talk to some of the bank leadership in China, they will actually point to a decrease due to companies moving liquid capital out of China as a result of interest rates coming down [00:03:00] markedly And that, I think, when we looked at what was happening during COVID times, China interest rates were obviously quite high compared to other countries, making it a little bit more of an attractive play.Pilar: So now, with the decrease continuing that seems to be something that [00:03:15] others, especially domestically or regionally, that I was talking to when I was in Shanghai a couple days ago or weeks ago were also pointing to. But to your point about, Given these realities of why FDI has declined, do I see this trend reversing?Pilar: My short answer is [00:03:30] no, not in the short term and for the USA, most decidedly, not in this election year. The two main reasons I would point to for this, though, would really be, while China still would like to maintain strong performance on [00:03:45] investment, when GDP numbers and their aggressive growth target of 5 percent that's been stated by Xi Jinping.Pilar: What we end up seeing is the investment lever of GDP is something that has been a big driver for them achieving their growth rates. But at this point in [00:04:00] time, the investment lever is taking a back seat. To some of the consumption activities that they're trying to really influence and push.Pilar: So I would say, looking internally in China, they're really going to be focused more on domestic consumption to be able to drive that [00:04:15] growth. And then the second reason why I would say that the trend might not be reversing, at least within this next year, Is US companies are just continuing to face more scrutiny within their own organizations.Pilar: Whenever I see clients trying US [00:04:30] clients in particular, trying to make decisions on deeper investment in China, whether that's through acquisition or through basic investment into greenfield or brownfield plants, or even finding new supply base that might actually be Chinese based. [00:04:45] It's coming with a very high higher bar in terms of scrutinizing whether or not it's the right partner.Pilar: So bottom line not reversing I would say within the foreseeable future being at least 12 to 18 months out Art: Yeah, and I'm [00:05:00] sure you got this question a lot when you visited China as well, both even from friends and business people in China, asking you maybe when, when do you think things will get better as far as the investment there and stuff.Art: I certainly got that. I just got back and got that a lot. [00:05:15] And I agree. It's part of it is it's. It's perception and reality, right? The reality is the Chinese economy is not doing well. And so that probably, as you said, might be the biggest factor, even beyond anything we read about in the news [00:05:30] and the headlines and the politics of of of, not great relations between the U S and China right now.Art: And at the same time I hear what you're saying too, with some of my own clients getting internal pushback for any, anything that, you know, because, and again, [00:05:45] that might be more of just as much perception of what they see in the headlines of the wall street journal or whatnot, and say why are we investing there more?Art: I thought it was getting harder, whether or not that's true or not. That's at least we can say that perception is there, and that's not going to help make [00:06:00] that fight any to get increased investment any easier internally, like you said. You see then, I guess it goes without saying that companies are de risking from China and moving either to Southeast Asia or India, if [00:06:15] it's manufacturing or even coming back closer to home let's say, Mexico.Art: Do you, are you actually with, internally at your firm trying to position yourself? As a bridge for that that de risking, where clients say we've [00:06:30] really valued all the advice you've given us in China we see you have offices all throughout Asia.Art: How have you guys been helping clients through that process a lot recently? Pilar: It would be relatively [00:06:45] relatively easy to say absolutely a hundred percent. I think that it wants, we want to caveat this a bit because I think the question oftentimes when our clients come to us and say, hey, here's our direction.Pilar: We've decided we need to de risk or sometimes the [00:07:00] terminology becomes anti fragility and that concept really means putting us putting our company or the client in a state where we are not subjected to the exogenous effects of any global economic player. [00:07:15] That could impact our business so detrimentally.Pilar: So put another way. Make us bulletproof, help us figure out what can we do, whether it's, taking these out of China and putting them into Southeast Asia, bringing things [00:07:30] nearshore, reshore, friendshore, back over to Mexico. Those are the common go tos. But what we have found is it helps to actually bring the client before they come to us with, here's our decision.Pilar: We want to take factories or [00:07:45] take suppliers out of China and move them to somewhere else in the world. We say let's take a step back and try to understand what is your objective here? And a lot of times when you really peel those layers back, what you're starting to hear the client say is we don't want to have another [00:08:00] COVID impact our complete business.Pilar: We also don't want another, whether it's a pandemic or it's a landshoreman strike in Los Angeles, or it's some kind of labor union strike in Europe, or it's pirates [00:08:15] in the Panama Canal, all of these global realities is what's causing us to reconsider. Are we securely operating and supply chain is the natural 1st place to go.Pilar: When you hear companies jump immediately to, we need to. [00:08:30] de risk and reshore. I think those can actually they're not mutually exclusive, so when you can separate them, you can actually unpeel a lot more on this de risking piece as opposed to the reshoring piece. But to come back to the [00:08:45] specifics of your question, are we seeing clients wanting this?Pilar: Yeah, definitely. We have one client, for example, in Furniture manufacturing, right? So a sector that is very well entrenched in China, they had been sourcing probably 70 percent of [00:09:00] their products out of China maybe doing some sub assembly in places like Mexico, and this was an American company and what they decided, and this was probably about a year or two after COVID lockdown ended and they said, [00:09:15] we really want to figure out a way to.Pilar: Bring this back home. So we want to double down on our investment in Mexico. Now, as you rightedly pointed out at the onset, we're more of an Asia based firm, but because we recognize the need for this [00:09:30] kind of pivot, we made a small investment in Guadalajara, Mexico, where we now have a small team that supported specifically these kinds of requests.Pilar: And this example on the furniture company is not, is only one, but I think it highlights the point where we took this [00:09:45] client and said Okay. What are the components or products that are coming out of China for you? We did the cost arbitrage of which products were the most expensive to relocate versus those that might be easier to relocate and wouldn't disrupt their supply chain too dramatically, but bring them additional cost [00:10:00] savings.Pilar: And in doing that, we ended up going through a, an MNA process in Mexico to help them find not just suppliers, but actually some manufacturing footprints that they could. Absorb and take over and move on. So in that example, I would argue that it [00:10:15] wasn't so politically driven. There wasn't the motivation was more on cost management.Pilar: China is no longer the cheapest place to source furniture. Not to say that Mexico is significantly cheaper, but when you put the landed cost calculations into play, [00:10:30] you do start to see. Some benefits there. Art: Yeah. And shipping, like you said, the risk of factory shutdowns, that's not necessarily a political risk.Art: China, I guess everything can be somewhat political but that's the, The supply chain disruptions, [00:10:45] that, that's something that is maybe wasn't as much of an issue, but you're seeing your clients and helping your clients price that additional risk into their calculations and then it's at a place like Mexico makes more sense.Art: I wonder if that's going to be, or, if you're seeing that as a trend for not just. [00:11:00] traditional multinational companies, American or European based, but even Asian companies and even Chinese companies realizing, Hey maybe this whole, the potential for supply chain disruption, obviously it affects our business as a Chinese manufacturer just as [00:11:15] much.Art:

Contact Ron Efron on LinkedInVisit BluOceanFollow Asia Business Podcast on LinkedIn Full show Transcript below Summary and Timestamps Security in an Evolving Asia Business EnvironmentIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Ron Efron, the director of BluOcean Security, about the comprehensive security services they offer multinational clients across the Asia Pacific. Ron shares insights into the origins and rapid growth of BluOcean Security, detailing their specialization in physical security systems like electronic security components and access management. He discusses the unique security needs of Fortune 500 companies, the impact of COVID-19 on security definitions and practices, and the increasing shift towards cloud-based security solutions. Ron also addresses the challenges and opportunities arising from geopolitical changes and migration strategies of multinationals out of China. The conversation touches on the complexities of navigating regulations, the adoption of facial recognition technology, and the importance of being agile and prepared for the future in the security industry.Introduction Welcome readers to an in-depth exploration into the realm of BluOcean Security, a premium security firm reshaping the landscape of security services across Asia Pacific. In this blog post, we delve into an exclusive conversation with Ron Efron, the director at BluOcean Security, shedding light on the company's journey, services, and the evolving dynamics of security in today's interconnected world. The Genesis of BluOcean Security Ron Efron, with a rich history in the security industry dating back to the late nineties, leads the charge at BluOcean Security. Founded in the end of 2018, the company swiftly established itself as a trusted partner for multinational clients seeking top-notch security solutions in the Asia Pacific region. Unraveling BluOcean Security's Offerings BluOcean Security stands out as a physical security systems integrator, specializing in safeguarding clients' assets and facilities through a wide array of security solutions. From electronic security components to comprehensive security consulting, the company caters to clients who prioritize security and compliance with international standards. Navigating Security Risks and Client Needs In the quest for fortified security measures, BluOcean Security collaborates closely with clients, especially Fortune 500 companies with operations spread across Asia Pacific. The company aligns its offerings with the unique security risks and compliance requirements of each client, ensuring a tailored approach to security solutions. Adapting to the Shifting Security Landscape As the world witnesses monumental shifts in how businesses operate post-pandemic, BluOcean Security underscores the significance of staying ahead in the security domain. From remote working challenges to the surge in cloud migration, the company emphasizes the crucial role of evolving security practices to meet the demands of a changing world. Embracing Technological Advancements and Privacy Concerns In the era of emerging technologies like facial recognition and AI, BluOcean Security remains vigilant towards the sensitivities surrounding data collection and privacy. The company navigates the fine balance between leveraging advanced security technologies and respecting privacy boundaries, showcasing a nuanced approach to modern security challenges. Navigating Global Security Standards and Regional Dynamics With a firm foothold in multiple Asian markets, BluOcean Security is adept at tackling diverse security challenges across borders. The company's agility and expertise shine through as they assist clients in navigating the complex web of security standards, compliance regulations, and regional nuances prevalent in the dynamic security landscape. Embracing Growth Opportunities in the Security SectorAs the security sector witnesses continued growth and transformation, BluOcean Security stands poised to embrace new opportunities and expand its footprint across emerging markets. By offering cutting-edge security solutions and unparalleled expertise, the company positions itself as a trusted partner for clients seeking to fortify their security measures in an ever-evolving world. Conclusion In conclusion, BluOcean Security, under the leadership of Ron Efron, exemplifies a beacon of innovation and reliability in the realm of security services. With a commitment to excellence, a keen eye on emerging trends, and a penchant for navigating complex security landscapes, the company continues to carve a niche for itself as a leading security solutions provider in the Asia Pacific region. Stay tuned for more insights and updates from BluOcean Security as they continue to redefine the contours of security in a rapidly changing world. TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest00:44 Exploring Blue Ocean Security with Ron Efron02:19 The Core Services and Clientele of BluOcean Security06:31 Adapting to Security Needs in the COVID-19 Era09:22 The Shift Towards Cloud-Based Security Solutions13:43 Navigating Data Security and Compliance Challenges18:59 Emerging Technologies and Privacy Concerns25:49 Global Trends and the China Plus One Strategy30:41 Closing Remarks and Contact Information TRANSCRIPTArt Dicker: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of The Asia Business Podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. Art Dicker: Today, we have the wonderful pleasure of having Ron Efron join us. Ron is the Director at Blue Ocean Security, a premium security firm offering comprehensive services including security consulting, systems integration, and security management to multinational clients throughout the Asia Pacific. Art Dicker: Ron, welcome. Ron Efron: Thank you, Art. It's good to be here. Art Dicker: Yeah, and you have a podcast of your own, which we'll give you a chance to talk about in a minute and tell us a little bit about. For the audience, what Blue Ocean Security does, what it's about, and you're relatively new, but I know you've grown quickly and had quite a lot of success right off the bat. Art Dicker: So give us a little bit of an intro about the company. Ron Efron: Sure. Blue Ocean Security is what you would call a physical security systems integrator, and we provide services that revolve around that. So what it basically means is that when you walk into a building today, you'll see electronic security components such as cameras, turnstiles, or various access locks to doors. We're essentially protecting the perimeter, the facilities, and access to those facilities in various ways. That's what we're doing for multinational clients in Asia Pacific. To be more specific, we focus on clients that take their security seriously. Not all companies prioritize security, and we specialize in those that do. We serve clients with facilities across the Pacific, and we've been quite successful at that. Blue Ocean is relatively new. We started at the end of 2018. Personally, I've been in this business since the late nineties, started my first business in Beijing, and grew that business across Asia Pacific. I sold that and exited in 2015. Then we started Blue Ocean Security with a group of my ex-employees, and myself. We decided to get back into the business because we saw that there were still opportunities. So, we got the band back together, so to speak. Art Dicker: Yeah, and like I said, you've done very well and you've expanded rapidly to different locations throughout the region. Can you, now that you've given us a nice introduction of what the company does, what are clients looking for when they're coming to you? At a high level, can you walk us through some of those chief security risks? You mentioned physical security and stuff like that, but what's often a trigger point when a client comes to you? What's usually the first thing that they're worried about? Ron Efron: First of all, we focus a lot on multinationals, primarily Fortune 500 companies that have operations around Asia Pacific. For most of these companies, they not only have concerns about security, but they also have certain standards they need to comply with—internal standards or otherwise. They generally know what their needs are and they need to tailor-make those needs to the facilities in different countries. So, they take a standard that may have originated in North America or Europe and adapt it to comply with the standards in New Delhi, Jakarta, or China. Maintaining an international level of expertise and service across Asia Pacific is really our specialty. Additionally, we merge those local risks into the design. When we start working with a client, they'll come to us with a new facility. We'll work with them to do a full design and list of equipment needed, then procure the various components and move on to installation, programming, and commissioning. Every project is different, and risks and needs vary as well. Art Dicker: How do you handle cases like the ones where, let's put it amusingly, cameras need to survive explosions? Do you ever encounter such non-routine requests and wonder where to find such specialized equipment?Art Dicker: Are you tapping into a similar set of suppliers and vendors you usually work with, or do you sometimes need to find very specialized ones, like in that example?Ron Efron: Yeah, we've been in the business for a long time, so we know where to find that. Occasionally, we have to resort to custom-made solutions. But even then, we work with suppliers who can meet the required standards. Take, for instance, explosion-proof housing for cameras. That's a very unique product type that needs to comply with specific standards. There are various levels of explosion protection, similar to bulletproof glass, with standards dictating thickness and capability.Art Dicker: We talked about this before recording, but as with any business, COVID has changed things. One of the most obvious examples is remote and hybrid working, but other aspects have been affected too, including supply chains. How has COVID impacted your industry, particularly regarding the multinational clients you serve? What changes have been most notable?Ron Efron: COVID has significantly broadened the definition of security, encompassing issues such as pandemics and business continuity planning. It's raised questions about the responsibility for employee safety when they're working remotely. Also, concerns emerged about safeguarding data when employees are working from home, ensuring the same level of security as in-office setups. There's also a growing trend around employee well-being intersecting with security. Security departments are now collaborating more closely with HR, legal, and cybersecurity teams, even occupying a seat at the C-suite table to advise on navigating this new landscape.Art Dicker: You mentioned some of the data and security aspects. Obviously, there's been a huge trend, speaking of COVID, changing the way we work and so forth. There's been a huge trend towards migrating everything to the cloud. Is that something that you've been dealing with as well with your customers and some of the security challenges there?Ron Efron: For sure. Yeah, and we can talk for hours just about this subject alone. Yes, and it is the normal evolution of technology. If you think about it on the IT side, there's already been a lot of migration to the cloud. A lot of the tools we use everything from Microsoft Office to Teams or your ERP system, be it Salesforce or NetSuite or anything else, it's already on the cloud. Security being a bit more conservative, it's just taking them longer to adapt to a lot of those cloud technologies. And that's normal. We've seen it also in the past when there is a change between analog video to digital video back in the early 2000s, for example, there's the same kind of transition process. With the cloud, a lot of it really comes down to people's perception that it is perceived to be less secure than having everything hardwired in your facility. And in most cases, that's just a perception and in most cases, that's not true. So you have to deal with that. And there's a lot of education around that as well, but we're seeing a lot of trends of companies moving more and more into the cloud. It's starting with smaller companies and slowly being adopted by those larger multinationals as well. And there's no way around that. You cannot not make that move to the cloud. We also see some real challenges, for example, like in China with the great firewall and how companies deal with that sometimes, and there's ways to deal with that, but that trend is here and it's pretty much here to stay and we embrace it. We are always recommending it or at least components or parts of security to be more cloud-based. And basically what this means is that companies can avoid having a server on their premise. Server is actually in Azure or AWS and Amazon or some other cloud facility. And another part of it is the database is maintained on the cloud. And in many cases, video is being more and more recorded and stored on the cloud as well. That's where you're seeing that.Art Dicker: Which I guess from what I'm hearing, it's all much more secure and actually than anything that server is sitting in the office is actually, it's actually a prime liability or vulnerability.Ron Efron: Exactly. So if you're a medium-sized company there's pretty much no way that your cybersecurity is a higher level than Amazon and AWS or Microsoft Azure. Or the amount of money they spend on security on their data centers. The physical security around data centers and their cybersecurity around data centers and all the tests and penetration tests and everything to do around that. There's really no way most companies can have that same level of security. And then it comes down to people engineering, right? So people try to get through that through other ways like phishing scams otherwise you can't get you. You're right. So you can't the degree of cybersecurity will never be at the same level. Therefore, and then you

Contact John Ling on LinkedInVisit LinVestFollow Asia Business Podcast on LinkedIn Full show Transcript below Summary and Timestamps Introduction:In a recent podcast episode featuring John Ling, an expert in Chinese manufacturing investment in the US, valuable insights were shared regarding the challenges and opportunities faced by Chinese entrepreneurs venturing into the American market. With years of experience and a deep understanding of the dynamics between China and the US, Ling provided a comprehensive overview of the mindset of Chinese investors, the factors influencing their decisions, and the strategies for success in this competitive landscape.Understanding Chinese Manufacturing Investment:Ling emphasized that Chinese companies venturing into the US market are often among the best in their industry, driven by competitiveness honed in the challenging business environment of China. Despite facing initial setbacks such as trade wars and market disruptions, these companies demonstrate resilience and long-term vision, making them well-positioned for success.Challenges and Strategies:One of the key challenges highlighted by Ling is the cultural and operational differences between China and the US. Chinese entrepreneurs must navigate unfamiliar territory, including regulatory frameworks, labor markets, and business practices. However, by building strong relationships with local communities and government entities, as well as seeking partnerships with experienced US companies, they can overcome these challenges and thrive in the American market.The Importance of Communication:Effective communication emerges as a crucial factor in the success of Chinese manufacturing investment projects. Ling emphasized the need for clear communication channels between stakeholders, including investors, local governments, and community members. By fostering open dialogue and addressing concerns proactively, Chinese entrepreneurs can build trust and collaboration, essential for long-term success.Building Name Recognition:Another important aspect discussed by Ling is the significance of name recognition in attracting Chinese investment. States and communities that proactively position themselves as attractive destinations for manufacturing projects can capitalize on this trend. By offering incentives, streamlining regulatory processes, and fostering a welcoming environment, they can attract investment and boost economic growth.Conclusion:In conclusion, John Ling's insights shed light on the complex dynamics of Chinese manufacturing investment in the US. By understanding the mindset of Chinese entrepreneurs, recognizing the challenges they face, and implementing effective strategies for collaboration, states and communities can leverage this opportunity for mutual benefit. With the right approach, Chinese investment can drive economic growth, create jobs, and foster cross-cultural understanding. Timestamps0:00 - Introduction to the Episode and Guest1:29 - John Ling's Journey and Chinese Investment in the U.S.6:20 - The Evolution of Chinese Companies in the U.S. Market14:30 - Understanding the Operational Success of Chinese Companies in the U.S.21:30 - The Role of Local Teams and Cultural Differences30:45 - The Importance of Local Partnerships and Government Engagement39:50 - Concluding Thoughts and How to Connect with John Ling TranscriptArt Dicker: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. Today we have the absolute pleasure of being joined by John Ling. John is Managing Director at LinVest LLC. LinVest is a boutique investment advisory firm doing strategy, site selection, lending services, and incentive negotiations for inbound foreign investors into the United States, particularly specializing in the greater China market.Art Dicker: Welcome, John.John Ling: Thank you, Art. Good morning. How is the sunny San Diego? It's always beautiful every time I went there.Art Dicker: There are a few clouds in the sky today, but yes, normally it's picture-perfect here. And how are things in South Carolina?John Ling: It's nice, a beautiful Carolina blue, as people say here, and it's warm and nice.John Ling: And so enjoy catching up. Yeah.Art Dicker: Perfect weather for a podcast. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So you have so much experience. We met at the SelectUSA conference, which is just a great event that helps foreign investors come, and lots of folks that work with foreign investors coming into the United States. And I know that's what your business is all about.Art Dicker: And with the particular focus on greater China, like we said, so I think there's going to be plenty of things to talk about. You and I have talked earlier about the, there's quite a few Chinese companies coming to the United States these days for various reasons. So we're going to get into that in a lot of detail.Art Dicker: My first question for you is if you can walk the audience through a bit, how we've gone over the years in different phases maybe of Chinese investment in the United States. Let's put, let's say maybe the last 20 years or so, what's a kind of a rough timeline of the types of investors and the types of investments that Chinese investors have been making over the last 20 years or so into the United States?John Ling: Sure, Art, I don't know about you, but I'm not someone who really ever tried to plan ahead and I never thought about a so-called career path. So I came to this country in '91, and my first job was to market pre-engineered metal buildings to China. Every one of our clients at that time was a manufacturing project.John Ling: So my first encounter with inbound Chinese investment project was a company by the name Fuyao glass. Oh yeah. They are the largest auto windshield maker in the world. I met them in '95; actually, their first project in the U.S. was in Greenville, South Carolina, where I currently live, and my wife's first job in the U.S. happened to work for the company, and the company was only less than $100 million a year in revenue. But yet the owner had quite some ambition to go abroad. He invested, I don't remember the exact dollar amount, but he was building a 130,000 square foot building, mostly for distribution and warehousing.John Ling: And also thought about going into a joint venture with Saint-Gobain, which is at that time, probably the largest auto windshield maker in the world, a French company. It never worked out. So they failed in that first effort. And, but having said that there, the gentleman or the company was featured in a documentary.Art Dicker: Oh, yeah, I know. Yeah. And I think the name of the movie is that American Factory, if I remember right. And they even won some kind of Oscar documentary film award. And now they employ about, I would say 3,000 or so employees in the U.S. in multiple States. Right. Including Ohio, Illinois, and South Carolina, maybe one or two more.John Ling: And my real first greenfield manufacturing project was Haier, the home appliances maker who later bought GE home appliances for $5.3 billion, and they were one of my clients in China. So they thought about coming to the U.S. in the late '90s to build a refrigerator factory. And of course understandably at that time people in China or in this country were wondering how in the world a Chinese company did do they just lose their mind coming by coming to the U.S. to build a factory? It should be another way around and remember in the mid or late '90s, you might as well say it's several generations ago in China. When you talk about, actually, there were hardly any so-called wholly-owned multinational company in China, but most say it's so-called joint venture.John Ling: And so they were, as far as I can remember, I think they are the first greenfield Chinese investment coming to this country, and I joined South Carolina Department of Commerce in January 2000. At the beginning of this century, and I worked at the head office for 5 years, and then they saw the opportunity in the Chinese market.John Ling: The governor and his commerce sector at that time, it was actually their idea upon seeing what's happening in China, and what kind of companies or opportunity I have introduced them to. So, they basically decided to set up a state office in China, and the state sent me to Shanghai in '05 to open the state office.John Ling: The first five, six years, there were some activities, but nothing shaking or big. I think, to me, I think the turning point was in around 2012. I think that's as we may remember, that was after the financial crisis here, and the economy globally was not in great shape. The Chinese government at that time seemed to have handled it better during that period.John Ling: So the economy seems to have sustained that hit. And also as Chinese business people travel to the world, they saw some opportunities and they saw, they also noticed the cost of manufacturing between the West, or in this case, the U.S. and China has been have been narrowed. So, they, so there are several companies that started the move.John Ling: So, I think that's why I think 2012 is a turning point as we start seeing. Projects ranging from tens of millions or hundreds of millions. Coming to this way, and I work with quite a few of them, uh, in the following years, COVID shut down a lot of things. So for about two, three years, nothing much happening, but the past two years, contrary to most people's thinking, when we see what's happening around the globe, and especially in terms of the geopolitics.John Ling: Or really the relationship between China and the U.S. most people may have thought this can. This could have almost stopped the inbound. Projects from China or great China region, but. What I have been seeing is that again, I have never seen such a strong pipeline. Never seen this many projects, so we are actively engaging with many different projects by taking them to visit different parts of the U.S. to help them to find the most suitable location for their project.Art Dicker: That's a great introduction. That's, you've lived the timeline that I was trying to get the audience to understand. So that's, so you're the perfect person to talk about it, and amazing. And you mentioned Haier that you worked with there.Art Dicker: It's not surprising that they're one of the first to come to the U.S. I know their CEO and founder was famous for taking a sledgehammer to break the refrigerators in the factory in the early days when it was moving over from a state plan company to a private company. Set the tone. And so it's not surprising that that founder would have the energy and creative thinking to come to the U.S. so early.Art Dicker: And that's a wonderful success story. You mentioned they bought the GE appliance brand, and they were able to maintain the quality because it's a wonderful brand that they make good things. And then you also mentioned one thing I wanted to emphasize for the audience. You mentioned around 2012, there was a switch where Chinese companies realized that the cost differential was not so big anymore between the U.S. and China.Art Dicker: And I guess that's largely because not so much anything that changed in the U.S., but China was becoming more expensive in labor costs and things like that. That's correct.John Ling: Again, me and my family lived in Shanghai at that time. And as I talked to many business people, they, no matter, they either came here for business or for leisure. And as I go, say, go to a department store, a restaurant, and very often they find. That it's really reasonable, a lot of things they are purchasing. And as they talk to their counterparts here or customers here and ask different questions, they find out actually for most parts, yes, there are still a gap between the wages in China and the U.S., but at the professional level, especially at the management level, there's Actually, the gap is even narrower.John Ling: So, when you consider, of course, when you are planning a project, you just don't look at the wages. You look at the overall picture. I guess my selling points at that time is that. When you think about how expensive. Then price is in China in Asia. And how hard for you to secure even a parcel of land, the utility costs, especially the electricities and the shipping costs, the freight costs, especially these days, duty.John Ling: Yeah, of course. At that time, nobody knew what happened in the following years or decade. I, again, I'm not taking pleasure in saying this, but every project I have WordPress. At the moment, up to today, every one of them is very glad that they made the move because say a few projects even told me that had they not made the move, their whole company might have gone by.John Ling: Now I am talking about, for example, one is a company that invested 200 million dollars in South Carolina, making the most basic goods, which is cotton yarn. And the owner told me had they not come the company, at least there is yarn spinning business in China. You know, is that actually, so he's very happy to have made that move.John Ling: I also have another client. They make the. What do you call that? Drill? It's an industrial drill. And some hand tools they bought us. They bought a company here in 2009 for about right under 30,000,000 dollars and. That was again, they were trying to, they saw some opportunity in this country after or during the financial crisis.John Ling: They went ahead and made a, to them, that's a huge purchase because it's not a big company. They actually just sold the business last year. I'm quite sure they made 10 times more, actually much more than that. And however, their, their business in China actually had not been growing as fast

We interview Eddy Chan, co-founder of Intudo Ventures, the leading and only venture capital firm that exclusively invests in Indonesia. Eddy shares some of the reasons to start the firm several years ago before Indonesia had started to emerge on the world stage as an top investment destination. We also discuss macro demographic as well as policy trends that have made Indonesia so attractive, as well as the investment process and LP and ecosystem partners that make Intudo so unique and well-positioned. Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts

We talk with Chris Pereira – Founder and CEO of business consulting group iMpact on obstacles they face and strategies that work for Chinese brands entering the US. A wide-ranging discussion from macro trends driving Chinese companies to go abroad to micro initiatives like early engagement with the local community to build support for the company’s investment there. You won’t want to miss this episode from Chris, one of the frequently quoted, go-to leaders in his field. Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts

We talk with Tu Le, founder of China Auto Insights, on the rise of Chinese’s EV industry globally, how it got here, how the US and Europe can compete, and whether it really has been Chinese government policies that have made the difference. A full tour de force of where we are and where we are headed from one of the leading commentators in the business. Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts

From our sister show the China Business Law Podcast: We interview Jon Hicks, Employment Counsel at Netflix at its headquarters in Los Gatos, California. On how lawyers can effectively communicate with clients, including internal company clients when operating as an in-house attorney. Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts

From our sister show the China Business Law Podcast: Boon Kim Fam talks with Shirley Zhang, Global Compliance Director at Dover Fueling Solutions. On running a global compliance program out of Shanghai for a multinational company. On the challenges of “work-life integration” and time management during COVID-19. And how Shirley and her team manage to stay on top of an ever increasing number of data privacy and other compliance regulations around the world. Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts

From our sister show the China Business Law Podcast: From a "surgeon saving lives" (external counsel) to a "family doctor who knows everything there needs to know about each member of the family" (in-house lawyer), Di Yao, Head of Legal for Google Shanghai speaks to the China Business Law Podcast about his journey from an external counsel to an in-house lawyer. In this episode, Di talks about what prompted him to move from a law firm to an in-house role, how he adds value to a technology company and also what technology companies should be thinking about in terms of their strategy taking into account the evolving regulatory requirements. Many would say when one transitions from a law firm to an in-house role, it might be for work-life balance reasons. Not Di though - he made the switch because he wanted to change the world. And he did, by joining Google in China and becoming a gatekeeper with a difference, providing pragmatic advice and risk assessment in a fast paced technology industry. Di implored audiences to think about what makes a business successful in China and weave this into the strategy, whether or not this relates to intellectual property, data security as well as privacy. He also advocates taking a step back and truly understand the intention of legislature in developing a robust business strategy. In relation to intellectual property, Di also explained that it is no longer enough to think that a product offering delivered a couple of years ago will continue to be relevant, as continuous innovation and creativity are key drivers driving the domestic market and we all have to catch up. China also recognizes the importance of intellectual property protection, so proactive protection, instead of a defensive IP litigation strategy would be a more sustainable approach. Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts