Giving Voice to Depression

Living with depression often means battling thoughts that feel convincing—but aren't true. You might believe you're broken, that nothing will ever get better, or that you're the only one struggling this much. These thoughts don’t reflect reality—they reflect depression’s distorted logic.In this episode, psychotherapist Barry Winbolt joins us to unpack how depression alters thinking patterns and reinforces hopelessness. He explains how attributional styles, “depression logic,” and internalized shame shape the belief that nothing can change. But change is possible—with awareness, compassion, and the right tools.Whether you're personally living with depression or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers language, strategies, and hope. Learn how to question what depression tells you, how to shift negative thought loops, and how to gently reframe your internal story—even if you’ve been stuck in it for years.Primary Topics Covered:Why depression convinces you that you don’t have it—or that it will never endThe concept of “depression logic” and why it’s so persuasiveHow attributional (explanatory) style shapes your belief in depression’s permanenceUnderstanding the “3 P’s” of depressive thinking: personal, pervasive, and permanentWhy people resist getting help—and why that logic feels convincingThree evidence-based ways to push back against depressive thoughtsHow to coexist with depression rather than be controlled by itRewriting your story and reframing self-defeating narrativesPractical tools to challenge hopelessness and reclaim momentumThe emotional power of feeling seen, heard, and understoodTimestamps:00:00 Intro to the episode and depression’s most dangerous lies  01:19 “You don’t have depression. And you always will.” Why those lies work  02:53 Meet Barry Winbolt: therapist, partner, and lived-experience voice  03:58 What makes “depression logic” so persuasive  04:41 Hopeless reasoning: “Why try, I’ll just get depressed again”  06:25 The three P’s of depressive thinking: personal, pervasive, permanent  08:11 How depressive thinking shapes your identity and future outlook  09:50 Why labels can be helpful—or deeply harmful  11:19 The metaphor of depression as a virus: why it wants to perpetuate itself  12:03 First strategy: Challenge the thought. Ask, “Where’s the evidence?”  12:49 Second strategy: Acknowledge the thought—and act anyway  13:39 Third strategy: Learn to coexist with depression without letting it lead  14:39 Grief, loss, and compartmentalizing pain  15:33 The missing ingredient in healing: personalized conversation  16:23 Changing the narrative to create new meaning  17:21 Reflections from the co-hosts on the episode’s emotional impact  18:29 Real-life applications: using Barry’s metaphors in daily struggles  19:17 Therapist takeaway: sometimes you have to live with depression, not fight it  20:59 Absolutist thinking and the language of depression  21:50 Changing your internal story makes healing possible  22:37 Closing thoughts and reminders for continued support  Explore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

How do you explain depression to a child—especially when it’s their parent who is struggling?In this moving episode, Todd Rennebohm, author of Sometimes Daddy Cries, shares the deeply personal story behind his children’s book. What began as a near-suicidal night became the seed for a tool that now helps countless families talk about depression in ways children can understand.Todd, a father living with depression, anxiety, ADHD, and six years of sobriety, opens up about the challenges of parenting with mental illness, the stigma men face in acknowledging their struggles, and why normalizing depression for kids matters so much.Hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sanz guide the conversation, exploring how stories like Todd’s break silence, reduce fear, and remind children (and adults) that depression is treatable—and love remains constant.Link to Todd Rennebohm's book "Sometimes Daddy Cries": https://www.amazon.com/Sometimes-Daddy-Cries-Todd-Rennebohm/dp/0228834678Primary Topics Covered:Todd’s journey through depression, sobriety, and near-suicidal momentsThe origins of Sometimes Daddy Cries and why he wrote it for his kidsWhy “sad” is an entry point but doesn’t capture the depth of depressionUsing relatable experiences like tummy aches to explain mental health to childrenHow hospitalization for depression can be explained in child-friendly termsThe stigma men face when admitting to depression and seeking helpWhy open conversations prevent kids from blaming themselvesThe book’s impact not only on children but also on parents and partnersTodd’s message: depression is real, treatable, and doesn’t diminish loveTimestamps:00:11 Introduction and welcome 01:33 Introducing guest Todd Rennebaum, author and father 02:10 The dark night that led to writing Sometimes Daddy Cries 03:46 Choosing honesty and asking for help instead of ending his life 04:22 Why “sad” is both useful and inadequate for describing depression 05:09 Todd describes depression as heavy, endless, and debilitating 06:31 Using tummy aches as a relatable metaphor for children 08:07 How depression, like physical illness, sometimes requires professional help 09:22 Todd shares his experience with hospitalization 10:48 Writing the book as a way of “learning from mistakes” to help others 11:29 How the book resonates with children, partners, and men facing stigma 12:13 Todd’s core message: mental illness is normal, common, and treatable 13:32 The importance of showing kids that love remains constant through struggles 15:35 Co-host reflections on men, stigma, and the need for honesty in families 18:12 How the book helps children reframe anger and depression in their parents 18:48 Closing reflections and encouragement for listenersExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

In this extended conversation with Darin Olien—wellness expert, bestselling author, and co-host of Down to Earth with Zac Efron—we explore the deep connections between mental health and whole-body wellness.Darin opens up about his family’s struggles with depression and shares how nutrition, hydration, sleep, and emotional honesty play powerful roles in supporting recovery. From the gut-brain connection to the power of supportive communities, this candid interview offers both practical steps and profound encouragement.This episode is part of a new extended format where we bring you more of our guests’ voices, stories, and insights.Link to Darin Olien's website: https://darinolien.com/Primary Topics Covered:Darin Olien’s personal connection to depression through his parents’ strugglesThe gut-brain connection and how diet impacts mood and resilienceWhy unresolved trauma underlies much of our painThe importance of professional, family, and community supportSimple wellness practices to support mental health (hydration, movement, sleep, light exposure)Why therapy and honest conversations are essential to healingThe role of nature and circadian rhythms in stabilizing moodReframing identity and letting go of limiting self-beliefsHow hydration, sleep, and clean food can reduce stress and restore balanceThe importance of hope, dreams, and creating a vision for recoveryTimestamps00:00 Introduction and episode format update 02:00 Darin Olien shares his family’s struggles with depression 04:10 The impact of diet, processed foods, and gut health on depression 07:30 Trauma, pain, and the need for emotional healing 09:48 Building resiliency through professional and community support 11:00 The importance of therapy, honesty, and safe spaces 12:40 Active listening as a tool for connection and healing 14:15 Men’s groups, stigma, and finding supportive communities 18:45 Healing trauma and reframing identity 20:14 Genes, wellness, and the power of lifestyle choices 23:50 The role of sleep and circadian rhythms in mental health 26:14 Food as “nature’s packaged medicine” and making small shifts 30:00 The gut-brain connection and how cravings change with diet 34:22 Parallels between depression and toxic microbes—feeding the positive 35:14 Hydration, energy, and the hidden effects of dehydration 38:35 Practical advice: build a foundation with food, water, sleep, and support 41:17 Closing reflections and invitation for listener feedbackExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

Can everyday wellness habits really support depression recovery?In this inspiring episode, bestselling author and wellness expert Darin Olien (SuperLife, Fatal Conveniences, and Netflix’s Down to Earth with Zac Efron) joins hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sands to discuss the profound connection between wellness practices and mental health.Drawing from his family’s struggles with depression and his own life challenges—including losing his home in the California wildfires—Darin shares how grief, nutrition, hydration, and lifestyle changes all play vital roles in building resilience and supporting recovery.This conversation blends science, lived experience, and hope, reminding us that while genetics and trauma matter, the daily choices we make about food, sleep, and self-care can profoundly influence our mental well-being.Link to Darin Olien's website: https://darinolien.com/Primary Topics Covered:Darin Olien’s personal experiences with depression in his familyThe connection between grief, trauma, and resilienceHow ultra-processed foods impact mood, gut health, and brain chemistryWhy hydration is often overlooked but critical for energy and mental clarityThe importance of community, therapy, and safe spaces for honestyWhy unresolved trauma is at the root of much sufferingThe power of sleep and circadian rhythms in stabilizing moodWhy genetics account for only ~20% of outcomes, and lifestyle choices for the other 80%How to give yourself permission to dream and build a life you wantPractical first steps toward wellness when energy feels lowTimestamps00:11 Welcome and introduction 01:10 Why mental health is often excluded from “wellness” conversations 02:16 Introducing Darin Olien and his work (SuperLife, Fatal Conveniences, Down to Earth) 03:29 Darin shares his family’s struggles with depression 05:37 Coping with grief after losing his father, divorce, and his home in a wildfire 07:19 The courage it takes to feel emotions fully and move through them 08:25 The connection between processed foods, gut health, and depression 09:55 Why unresolved trauma fuels much of our suffering 11:28 The importance of therapy, professional help, and safe spaces 13:01 The power of active listening and men’s groups in healing 15:03 How pain and trauma can be transformed into healing opportunities 16:20 Lifestyle choices that impact depression (nutrition, sleep, hydration) 17:51 Practical tips for nutrition and eating whole foods with limited energy 18:42 Hydration and why dehydration mimics fatigue and low mood 19:41 Darin’s closing advice: seek help and give yourself permission to dream 21:52 Hosts reflect on focusing on what we can control 23:50 Genetics vs. lifestyle: why you have more influence than you think 26:30 Closing reflections and listener invitation for feedbackExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

What does it take to move from struggling in silence to becoming a mental health advocate?In this candid episode, writer and advocate Michelle Yang shares her powerful journey of living with bipolar I disorder, from being overlooked as a high-achieving student to experiencing a life-threatening manic episode while studying abroad.Michelle opens up about her delayed diagnosis, the stigma that kept her silent for years, and the turning point when she realized hiding her condition only reinforced shame. Today, she is a proud advocate, helping others see that life with bipolar disorder can be full, successful, and joyful.Hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sanz guide the conversation, exploring what it means to challenge stereotypes, balance treatment, and embrace authenticity while living with a serious mental health condition.This episode is both eye-opening and deeply validating—reminding us that mental illness does not define us.Link to Michelle's Blog: www.livingwellhappily.com/Primary Topics Covered:Michelle’s childhood pressures as a first-generation immigrant studentWhy good grades and achievements often mask serious mental health strugglesHer first major depressive and manic episodes during college abroadReceiving a bipolar I diagnosis after years of being misdiagnosedThe importance of taking a break from school and finding the right treatmentReturning to school, graduating with distinction, and building a careerHow stigma and secrecy limited her confidence and opportunities at workThe turning point: choosing to “come out” about her diagnosisChallenging myths about bipolar disorder and treatmentWhy lived-experience stories are essential to changing stigmaTimestamps00:11 Introduction and welcome 01:10 Michelle Yang’s immigrant childhood and early responsibilities 01:56 Mental health struggles overlooked due to grades and achievement 03:19 “Good grades ≠ good mental health” — Michelle’s advocacy message 04:15 First major depressive episode and study abroad struggles 05:18 Pressure from her father and a triggering manic episode in Beijing 06:59 Crisis leads to hospitalization and first bipolar diagnosis 08:52 The importance of therapy and taking a break from school 09:33 Returning to school, graduating with honors, and pursuing an MBA 10:17 Building a career while hiding her diagnosis out of fear of stigma 11:10 The personal and professional costs of keeping bipolar a secret 11:18 Challenging misconceptions about bipolar disorder and treatment 12:54 Recognizing the difference between untreated and treated illness 13:12 “Like sucking in your gut for 20 years” — her metaphor for hiding 13:19 Choosing authenticity and becoming a mental health advocate 14:30 Living a full life: mother, professional, and person with bipolar 15:11 Why advocacy matters: breaking silence and stigma 16:53 Stigma persists because we only see people in crisis, not in recovery 17:55 Michelle’s forthcoming memoir: Phoenix Girl: How a Fat Asian Girl With Bipolar Found Love (2024) 18:38 Closing reflections and reminders for listenersExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

Can a teen be excelling academically while secretly battling depression or bipolar disorder?In this revealing episode, Michelle Yang shares her story of being a high-achieving immigrant student who outwardly had it all together—straight A’s, strong work ethic, and responsibility—while silently struggling with anxiety, depression, and undiagnosed bipolar disorder.Despite begging for therapy as a teenager, Michelle’s struggles were dismissed by adults who believed good grades meant good mental health. Cultural stigma, parental fear of leaving a “permanent record,” and a dismissive doctor’s visit all delayed her diagnosis and treatment for years.Now a thriving advocate and writer, Michelle uses her experience to shine a light on the dangerous myth that academic performance protects teens from mental illness. Her story reminds us that depression can hide in plain sight—and listening without judgment can save lives.Link to Michelle's Blog: www.livingwellhappily.com/ Primary Topics Covered:Michelle’s experience immigrating from Korea and the trauma of cultural adjustmentTaking on adult responsibilities at a young age as a translator and family caretakerThe disconnect between academic achievement and emotional strugglesEarly symptoms of bipolar disorder and severe anxiety during high schoolManic episodes, paranoia, and psychotic-like symptoms as a teenWhy teachers and professionals overlooked her needs due to good gradesThe crushing shame of feeling “different” and misunderstoodHer parents’ fear of stigma and a “permanent record” blocking college opportunitiesA secret doctor visit that ended in dismissal instead of diagnosisHow stigma delayed treatment for years—and the hope of eventual healingTimestamps00:11 Introduction and hosts’ reflections 02:01 Michelle’s background as an immigrant from Korea 03:04 Early signs of anxiety and depression in childhood 04:19 Family struggles with cultural and career shifts after immigration 05:26 Becoming a translator and caretaker at age 12 05:40 Pressure from family and the beginnings of depression 05:49 Academic achievement alongside deep anxiety and sleeplessness 06:32 Manic episodes with psychotic-like tendencies 06:42 The shame and fear after manic episodes ended 07:22 Out-of-character behaviors at school and teacher responses 08:13 How teachers and schools excused behavior as “cultural differences” 08:55 Michelle’s confusion and lack of words for her experience 09:59 Asking parents for help and begging for therapy 10:55 Her parents’ fear of stigma and “permanent record” consequences 11:50 A secret doctor visit that ended in dismissal 13:07 The heartbreak of being told she had an “overactive imagination” 13:55 Four more years until she received professional diagnosis and treatment 14:52 Hosts reflect on her resilience and eventual thriving 15:34 Closing thoughts and next week’s continuation of Michelle’s storyExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

What’s therapy really like—and when should you go?In this milestone episode, Dr. Anita Sanz demystifies the therapy process for anyone considering mental health treatment. From how to know when it’s time to reach out, to what actually happens in a session, to finding the right therapist (yes, it’s okay to shop around), this episode is packed with practical advice and stigma-busting insight.Whether you’re new to therapy or returning after a break, this candid conversation can help you approach the process with more confidence—and less fear. Therapy isn’t about being “crazy”—it’s about being proactive with your emotional health, just like you would with your physical health.Primary Topics Covered:When to start therapy: proactive vs. reactive approachesCommon signs it’s time to seek professional mental health supportReducing stigma and misconceptions about therapyHow therapy compares to medical and legal help (metaphors that resonate)Why “not being able to function” isn’t a requirement to get helpWhat actually happens in a therapy session (no couches required)How to find a therapist who fits your needs and personalityWhat to say if you don’t know why you’re seeking therapyAddressing suicidal thoughts safely and honestly in therapyThe role of therapy beyond the session (homework, behavioral change)Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and goals of the episode  01:09 Comparing therapy to medical and vision care  01:33 Why mental health stigma still holds people back  02:11 What therapy actually is—and what it isn’t  03:00 When to start therapy: don’t wait until crisis  04:22 Going early leads to better outcomes  05:25 How different generations view therapy  06:47 Using legal and car repair metaphors to explain therapy  07:09 “I’m not crazy”—debunking the most common myth  08:35 Why mental illness is hard to see, and harder to validate  09:50 Proactively seeking therapy before a known stressor  10:52 Finding the right therapist: it’s okay to shop around  12:38 Questions to ask during a free intro call  13:36 What if you don’t know what’s wrong? That’s okay too  14:58 Can you ask your therapist how they’ll talk to you? Yes  15:39 When to switch therapists—and how to do it respectfully  17:00 How long should therapy last? What does “done” look like?  19:10 Addressing suicidal thoughts safely in therapy  21:34 Therapy is one hour. Real change happens between sessions  23:16 Listener question: feeling stuck in negative thought loops  24:55 Therapy, plasticity, and building new brain patterns  25:45 Closing thoughts and next steps  Explore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

Can tiny shifts in perspective really make a difference in chronic depression?In this powerful follow-up conversation, Lori shares her ongoing recovery journey after nearly a decade of feeling stuck in depression. For years, she believed she was “broken” and beyond help. But a new treatment program introduced her to the idea that she wasn’t broken—just stuck—and that even the smallest shifts in thinking and behavior could change her trajectory.Through meeting others living with persistent depression, trying new therapeutic tools, and reframing her self-worth, Lori has begun to experience light and contentment for the first time in years.Her story is a reminder that depression lies, that progress doesn’t have to come in dramatic leaps, and that small, consistent changes can help us reclaim hope.Primary Topics Covered:Lori’s decade of living “halfway out” of depressionWhy she believed she was broken—and how treatment reframed that beliefThe importance of meeting others with persistent depressionHow small shifts in thought and behavior can alter recovery pathsMoving from hopelessness to noticing “pinpricks of light”Understanding “contingent self-worth” and reframing valueLearning the difference between being “broken” and being “stuck”The power of metaphors in recovery: pits, pinpricks of light, screen doors, and backpacksWhy staying open to new approaches matters, even after years of tryingTimestamps:00:11 Introduction and James Baldwin quote on change 01:31 Lori reflects on facing depression in new ways 02:22 Living “halfway out” of depression’s pit 03:16 Feeling like she “couldn’t do life well” 03:52 Trying a new treatment program despite skepticism 04:12 Meeting others living with persistent depression 04:49 Realizing she’s not alone in daily depression 05:21 Learning new tools and regaining unexpected hope 06:14 Moving from hopelessness to “not broken, just stuck” 07:24 Shifting perspective: looking forward, not just back 08:35 The “airplane course correction” metaphor for small shifts 09:43 Experiencing the first sparks of hope 10:26 Shame, self-worth, and living “in a box” 11:32 Sitting with pain to loosen depression’s grasp 12:29 Discovering that worth is a “set point,” not earned 12:50 Why the next step is always the most important 13:29 “Backpack people” vs. “screen door people” 14:28 Shifting from dreading mornings to noticing contentment 15:24 Co-host reflections on Lori’s insights and metaphors 17:00 Why “stuck” feels temporary while “broken” feels permanent 18:03 Staying open to new tools and approaches 19:27 The power of “yet” in reframing recovery 20:31 Final reflections and gratitude for Lori’s storyExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

What does it feel like to live with depression every single day—for years?In this deeply honest episode, Lori shares what it’s like to live with persistent depressive disorder (PDD), sometimes called dysthymia or chronic depression. Unlike major depressive episodes that come and go, Lori describes the exhausting reality of functioning at only “60%” most days—and the terrifying nearness of relapse when even small setbacks pull her closer to the bottom.She uses vivid metaphors—living “underwater,” hearing life “muffled,” and waking up each day feeling weighed down by a beanbag full of blood—to describe what PDD feels like from the inside. Lori also shares about passive suicidal thoughts, the risk of living flat and joyless, and why support often requires listening rather than “fixing.”Clinical psychologist Dr. Anita Sands joins co-host Terry to contextualize Lori’s story, emphasizing that persistent depression is real, chronic, and not the result of personal failure. They discuss how to support loved ones without minimizing their struggle, why curiosity may be more realistic than hope, and why staying—just one more day—matters.This is the first in a two-part series. In next week’s episode, Lori shares what happened after attending a treatment program that shifted her perspective and gave her new tools for living.More info on dysthymia: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/dysthymiaPrimary Topics Covered:The difference between major depression and persistent depressive disorderLori’s experience of living at “60%” and why it feels dangerousPowerful metaphors: underwater, muffled joy, and flatnessThe exhausting reality of waking each day wishing not to wakeUnderstanding passive suicidal ideationWhy “fix it” advice often causes more harm than goodHow to better support someone with chronic depressionDr. Sands on why PDD is its own diagnosis—not a failure of treatmentThe importance of staying present and curious, even when hope feels impossibleTimestamps00:11 Introduction to episode and hosts 01:10 Defining persistent depressive disorder (PDD/dysthymia) 02:04 Distinction between chronic and major depression 02:53 Lori’s description of major depression vs. chronic depression 04:08 Living at “60%” and the risks of relapse 06:04 Lori’s underwater metaphor for muffled life and joy 07:28 The flatness of chronic depression and masking symptoms 09:20 Struggling with mornings and passive suicidal thoughts 11:08 Wishing not to wake but lacking active suicidal intent 12:03 The exhaustion of even pleasant activities 13:21 Why “fix it” advice is unhelpful 14:12 Examples of dismissive or harmful responses Lori has received 15:27 What true validation and endurance look like 16:32 Dr. Sands contextualizes PDD as a real chronic illness 19:55 Introducing next week’s follow-up episode after treatment 21:05 Dr. Sands on why curiosity can be more realistic than hope 23:34 Closing reflections and resourcesExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

What does depression really feel like? In this episode, we break down the concept of Spoon Theory, a powerful way to understand the daily challenges of living with depression and limited energy. Through real-life examples and practical insights, we explore why simple tasks can feel overwhelming and how energy management plays a critical role in coping. If you’ve ever struggled to explain depression to others, this episode offers language and tools to make it clearer — both for yourself and the people around you.Primary Topics Covered:What Spoon Theory is and how it relates to depressionWhy depression makes everyday tasks feel exhaustingThe difference between visible and invisible strugglesStrategies for conserving and managing limited energyHow to explain depression to friends, family, and caregiversTimestamps: 0:00 – Introduction: Why describing depression is so difficult 2:45 – The origins of Spoon Theory explained 6:20 – How energy limits affect people with depression 10:05 – Examples of daily tasks that drain mental energy 14:30 – Explaining invisible struggles to others 18:50 – Practical strategies for conserving energy 23:10 – How Spoon Theory empowers self-compassion 26:45 – Final thoughts on living with depression and limited spoonsExplore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.comFacebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/