Creative Funding Show

There are two schools of thought when it comes to membership sites, one is to use a 3rd party platform like Patreon, and one is to do it yourself on your own website. I want you to hear from people from both schools of thought, which is why I’ve invited Ravi Jayagopal to the show. Ravi Jayagopal is the Co-Founder of DigitalAccessPass.com, a premier membership platform for WordPress. He also hosts SubscribeMe.fm a podcast about making, marketing & monetizing your content with membership sites, online courses & subscriptions. Questions Why would someone want to host a membership site on their own website rather than using a platform like Patreon? What are some of the downsides of hosting it yourself? How do you design a membership program people want to join? What do you include with the membership? What are DOGPOO and DOSAA? Let’s Talk About Membership Models. When do you go lifetime? When do you go recurring? Use Novel Marketing’s Patreon Affiliate Link to make an extra $50 for your first 30 backers. The post 018 How to Host Your Own Membership Site on WordPress with Ravi Jayagopal appeared first on Creative Funding Show.

Explore how info products can fund creative projects like YouTube channels and podcasts with high margins and tailored audience approach. Learn about creating educational courses, successful book launch strategies, and building a foundation for info product funding. Discover the value of interview practice and serving others, as well as a comprehensive book launch course with freebies and expert interviews.

This is the Creative Funding Show, a podcast for authors, YouTubers, and podcasters who want to fund the work they love. I’m your host, Thomas Umstattd, Jr., and with me again is Mary Demuth. She’s an international speaker and podcaster, a novelist of both fiction and nonfiction, and has published over 35 books. Her latest, The Seven Deadly Friendships, is coming out in about a month. Mary loves to help people re-story their lives. She lives in Texas with her husband and is a mom of three. When Mary was on the show last time, we talked about her Patreon and brainstormed ways to improve it. After the episode, we kept brainstorming, and I joked that once she doubled her revenue, we should have her back on the show. Well, she contacted me and said, “Hey, I doubled my revenue!” So true to my word, I’ve invited her back. What is “Pray Every Day”? Thomas: Tell us a little bit about your podcast. Mary: I have a podcast called Pray Every Day, where I pray for people based on scripture. I usually go through books of the Bible in order, like Philippians, James, Psalm 119, and the Sermon on the Mount. In my next episodes, I’ll be praying through relational verses from The Seven Deadly Friendships. So if you’ve got some broken relationships and would like some prayer, you can check it out. What did Mary’s Patreon look like before the changes we brainstormed? Thomas: What were you doing on Patreon before our last interview? Mary: I had shared my Patreon with my email list and got a few subscribers that way. These were diehard fans who supported me no matter what, which was really humbling and sweet. At that point, I only had one reward level. Anyone giving over $5 a month would receive an original art piece from me each month. People loved it because they had already asked for it in the past. And I enjoyed doing it; it wasn’t a burden at all. That’s how it started, but we’ve added more levels since then. I also started promoting it more on the podcast, and that’s when I saw real change. What difference does a big promotional push make? Thomas: One thing we talked about was borrowing a strategy from CBS or NPR and having a focused pledge drive instead of a constant slow drumbeat. CBS, for example, does an intense pledge drive once or twice a year. Wikipedia does the same around Christmas. They don’t ask for money every time you visit, just during that one period. You tried something like this. Tell us what happened. Mary: Initially, I sent it out to my list and did a big push. That brought in the first wave of patrons. But then I started doing what you call the “drumbeat” of mentioning it regularly. Every few days, I’d see another $1, $5, $10, or $20 come in. I also added several new levels in addition to the Art Level. One was called “The Brick.” I created a graphic that looked like a wall of bricks, similar to the donor bricks you see at libraries. Anyone who sponsors the podcast gets their name on a brick, and that wall appears in all show notes and on every podcast episode. It’s like advertising year-round. Then I followed your advice and added an exclusive audio podcast for $20-level patrons. I don’t have a ton of patrons at that level, but I’m grateful for the ones who are there. I record a casual, heartfelt update about what’s going on in my life, what I’ve learned, and answered prayers. It’s about 15 to 20 minutes long each month. Why offer higher-level Patreon tiers? Thomas: One thing Bremner Morris from Patreon mentioned is that people want to give at higher levels. A common mistake creators make is only offering low-tier options. We saw this on Novel Marketing. Our highest level was $8, and someone still donated $20. That told us we needed a $20 level. People want to give more, and we should make that possible with appropriate rewards. When I pulled your Graphtreon reports (you can see public stats at graphtreon.com), I could see that your revenue stayed flat for five or six months. Then suddenly, it shot up. You went from 20 to nearly 60 patrons, almost tripling your number of patrons. Your revenue is up 481% since October. Your earnings per patron are up over 20%, and your total number of patrons is up 383%. That’s massive growth. And what you’ve done is very reproducible. How did you create sustainable reward tiers? Thomas: You expanded your offerings in a smart way. For example, the digital brick wall isn’t a lot of work. You only update it monthly. Mary: Right. Otherwise, it would get chaotic. When someone joins, I email them and say, “Thanks! I’ll add you to the brick at the beginning of next month.” I usually include a free painting download as a bonus. I try to give more than they expect. Thomas: That’s smart. Patreon doesn’t charge new patrons right away. They’re only charged at the end or beginning of the month, so delaying the reward works well. It also prevents abuse. People could sign up, grab the perks, and cancel before being charged. Your approach follows good reward design because it’s simple and scalable. Sending a unique piece of art to each person doesn’t scale. But creating one piece of art and sharing it with many patrons does. Same with the bonus podcast. It’s special now with just a few listeners, but you could easily handle more higher-tier patrons without adding extra work. How did you implement the funding drive idea? Thomas: Another great move was your big funding push in July. Normally, you don’t talk about Patreon much on the podcast, but that month, you mentioned it every day and gave a personal shout-out to 30 different patrons by name. That’s powerful. People love hearing their name on a podcast. It creates loyalty. Once someone hears their name, it’s harder for them to cancel because they feel connected. These were all really smart strategies. Your growth hasn’t plateaued yet. You might hit $1,000 soon, or even $1,500. You’re still climbing. The beauty of Patreon is that as your audience grows and you apply these principles to better monetize that audience, your income can keep increasing. What else have you changed on Patreon? Thomas: What else have you done with your Patreon that’s changed in the last few months? Mary: Those are the main things. Occasionally, I mention Patreon on social media, and it’s linked on every post and on my website. But the most effective tactic has been consistently mentioning it to the people who actually listen to the podcast. Is it okay to ask for support to pay yourself for your time? Mary: I’m hoping to start providing transcripts for Pray Every Day. Our mutual friend Tricia Goyer, who is now one of my patrons and an enthusiastic fan of the podcast, suggested it, and I thought it was genius. Of course, I’ll have to pay for transcription. However, I struggle to ask for money for myself. I’m comfortable asking for funds to cover production costs or services like transcription. But is it okay to ask for money to compensate myself for my own time? For example, if it costs me $800 a month for transcription and other services, is it acceptable to set a goal of $1,500 to help pay for my time as well? Thomas: Absolutely. Many Patreon pages include a $1 tier with no reward, just to say, “Hey, I support what you’re doing.” It’s important to remember that people on Patreon often aren’t backing you for the rewards. Some love the exclusive content or goodies, but many just want to support your work. They want to make sure you can eat, pay rent, and keep creating. If you look at creators pulling in $50,000 or $75,000 a month, that’s far more than their production expenses. They’re funding their lives, and that’s okay. Phil DeFranco, for example, earns something like $100,000 to $150,000 a month on Patreon. He also has a big team and other income streams, but that Patreon income helps cover payroll. A million dollars a year is nothing to sneeze at. Transcripts are expensive, especially if you want quality. Even if you use automated services like Sonix (which has partnered with Patreon), you still need to clean them up. It’s not just the little words; the problem is when it gets a noun wrong. If it says “pears” instead of “bears,” the whole sentence becomes confusing. It’s easy but time-consuming to fix. Why offer transcripts at all? Thomas: The upside of transcripts is that they open up your podcast to people who don’t listen. Listening is a skill, and not everyone prefers audio. Some people read much faster and find listening tedious. My wife is like that; she can glance at a page and take it all in, but she finds listening slow and frustrating. There are many others like her, especially among writers. Transcripts also help with SEO. Google doesn’t usually transcribe podcasts on its own because it’s too expensive in terms of computing power. The only way Google knows what your episode is about is if you provide the transcription. That makes your podcast page more searchable and indexable. A page with just a play button looks empty to Google. That said, transcription alone won’t magically make your page rise in Google search results, but it does help make your site more index-worthy. One idea is to set transcription as a goal on Patreon. For example: “Once we hit $1,000 a month, transcripts will be unlocked.” The challenge is that the people who love your podcast right now are already happy listening and may not care about transcripts. The people who prefer to read and would care aren’t hearing your message. So it’s a communication challenge. Fortunately, you have a blog, books, an email list, and a social media presence, which gives you other ways to reach potential supporters. Is it okay to raise money to hire help? Mary: I think this ties into something more philosophical. For years, I’ve done everything myself. A couple of weeks ago, I was speaking to about 150 writers, and someone asked, “Who handles this or that in your business?” I had to say, “You’re looking at her.” There’s value in raising money through Patreon to hire help for the time-consuming tasks that take me away from my deeper mission. I’d love to get to the point where I’m not bogged down by the little details and can focus on the bigger picture. Thomas: You’re right at the tipping point in your career. As you grow, it becomes easier to afford help. But hiring isn’t a silver bullet. You still have to manage people and make sure things get done right. That’s a job in itself. Still, there’s a powerful principle at work here. When you delegate your weaknesses, you can focus on your strengths. That leads to more creativity and productivity. Phil DeFranco doesn’t worry about cameras anymore because he has a team. Early on, he was both in front of and behind the camera. That’s tough. The same is true with podcasting. Post-production, transcription, and graphics all take time and people. As you get more patrons, you’ll be able to outsource that work. I suspect you’ll double your Patreon again soon. Maybe once you hit $2,000 or $2,500, we’ll have you back on the show for a “Mary DeMuth journey.” I really believe you’re going to get there. Your consistency and connection with your audience are going to pay off. The growth may not be a straight line, but it will trend upward. Do small tweaks really make a difference? Mary: I hope that’s encouraging for your listeners. These weren’t big hacks or major overhauls. Just small, consistent tweaks that made a huge difference. For example, I have an Etsy shop for my watercolor art because readers asked for it. The other day, I posted a piece on Instagram and got $100 worth of orders. I realized that Instagram works well for visual items. You start to learn which social platforms work best for which kinds of outreach, whether it’s patronage or podcast promotion. It’s been an interesting journey, and I’m always learning something new. Thomas: It’s about figuring out which platforms work best for your audience. Some audiences aren’t on YouTube or Pinterest or Instagram. Others are thriving there. Pro tip: Don’t try to be on every platform. Focus on what works for you and lean into that. Remember, you can follow creators for free on Patreon. Just click the Follow button to get free updates. Even better, support them with a dollar or more. As I said in our last episode, spending $10 to back 10 different creators is a fantastic education in how Patreon works. But even following is helpful. If you want to watch Mary’s journey from $200 to $2,500 on Patreon, I highly recommend following her. I feature her often on the show as a test case. If you want to see cutting-edge Patreon strategies in action, follow Pray Every Day on Patreon. Connect with Mary De Muth MaryDeMuth.com Pray Every Day Patreon Mary DeMuth is an international speaker and podcaster, and she’s the novelist and nonfiction author of over thirty-five books, including the latest: The Seven Deadly Friendships (Harvest House Publishers 2018). She loves to help people re-story their lives. She lives in Texas with her husband of 28 years and is the mom to three adult children. Find out more at marydemuth.com. Mary’s Patreon Mary’s Instagram Mary’s Website Mary’s Graphteon Use Novel Marketing’s Patreon Affiliate Link to make an extra $50 for your first 30 backers. The post 016 How Mary DeMuth Doubled Her Patreon Backing in 4 months appeared first on Creative Funding Show.

Steve Olsher, known for clarity in purpose, discusses profiting from podcasting. Topics include monetizing guest appearances, efficient scheduling with Calendly, indie author marketing collaborations, and networking at conferences for joint ventures.

In today’s episode, I’m going to take a deep dive on Patreon and Email. Why this is important. For the Novel Marketing Patreon, there are several rewards that we want patrons to get automatically. The biggest is a series of coupon codes that give them discounts on our courses and plugins. Right now we send these emails by hand and that means there is sometimes a long delay from when someone signs up and when they get the email. You would think there is a way in Patreon to craft a custom thank you email that would have all this information, but there is not. That said it can be done and I will walk you through how to do it in this episode. The other reason this is important is that it gets your patrons out of Patreon and into your email app. That way if something happened to Patreon or you wanted to move away for some reason, you have all your subscribers in a place you control. Also, it is nice to be able to send out emails to all your patrons. TL;DR The short version is you setup a Zapier Zap with a Patreon “New Patron” trigger that triggers a MailChimp action to add the patron as a subscriber. Then you create a MailChimp onboarding campaign that has the welcome email. If that didn’t make sense to you, don’t worry I will walk you through the process step by step.   Step 1 Sign Up for Zapier Zapier is a tool used for connecting online services. It has a free forever plan which is all we will need for this. Sign Up for Zapier (Free) How Zapier Works: A “trigger” in one app can create an “Action” in another app. Right now Patreon has 3 triggers New Pledge Updated Pledge Delete Pledge There are thousands of Action apps. For instance, you can setup Twitter as an action so that as soon as someone becomes a Patron, you send a Tweet thanking that person. Zapier has some built-in actions and can send out emails itself, so you could skip all the following steps if you don’t care about building an email list in MailChimp.   Step 2 Sign Up For MailChimp I am going to use MailChimp as my example in this episode because it is the most popular app. You can do this with nearly any other email service like ConvertKit, Drip, or Active Campaign. MailChimp is the most popular email marketing platform on the internet. MailChimp is free up to 2,000 subscribers. After that, it is on the cheap side of the platforms. It’s not the cheapest or the most powerful but it is a solid option for a lot of people. Sign up for MailChimp (Affiliate Link) There are many tutorial videos to help you with signing up for MailChimp, and there is a good chance you already have a MailChimp account so I won’t spend too much time on it here. Here is a guide on How to Sign up For a MailChimp Account. Step 3 Create a “Zap” between Patreon and MailChimp To start this step, the easiest thing to do is click the link in the show notes that will take you to the specific Patreon to MailChimp recipe in Zapier. At that point, you will just follow the steps.   In short, you will verify your Patreon account and Verify your MailChimp account. Patreon to MailChimp Zapier Recipe Tips: You want Patreon to be your “trigger app” You want MailChimp to be your “Action” Step 3.5 (Optional) Create a “Patrons” Group in MailChimp Since we already use MailChimp with Novel Marketing, I needed to create a Patrons only group so that our regular subscribers would not get the “thank you” email. Here is a guide on How to Create a Group in MailChimp. Once you create the group, you will want to make sure your Zap adds new subscribers to that group specifically. Step 4 Create a MailChimp Automation Email Now we want to create the email we want MailChimp to send out automatically. I’ll have a link in the show notes to MailChimp’s help article on how to create an email automation. Basically, you create this email the same way you would create any other email you just select automation instead of a simple email. Then you pick the trigger which will either be “added to the list” if you are starting from scratch or “subscriber activity added to a group” if you are using my group method. Tips: Keep it simple. No fancy graphics Make sure the from name and email are recognizable. Have it send immediately after the trigger. Here is a guide on How to Create an Automated Welcome Email in MailChimp Step 5 Write Additional Drip Emails (Optional) Now that you have created your first automated email, you can setup additional emails to come out after a period of time that you set up. This could be useful if you have a lot of complicated rewards that need explaining. Perhaps each day they get an email explaining each reward. Step 6 Setup An Auto Unsubscribe Zap (Optional) Zapier can also automatically unsubscribe people from a MailChimp list or Group if they stop being a patron. This is nearly the same steps as in step 3 but you want your trigger to be “Delete Pledge” and your action to be “Unsubscribe Email.” Use Novel Marketing’s Patreon Affiliate Link to make an extra $50 for your first 30 backers. The post 014 How to Email Patrons a Thank You Automatically appeared first on Creative Funding Show.

This is the Creative Funding Show, a podcast for authors, YouTubers, and podcasters who want to fund the work they love. I’m Thomas Umstattd, Jr., and with me today is Bryan Cohen, the dashingly handsome co-host of the Sell More Books Show. Bryan helps authors sell more books and make more money by helping them write better book descriptions and market their books more effectively. His podcast is one of the most popular in the publishing world. Thomas: Bryan, you’ve been on Patreon for almost two years now, so why did you start the Sell More Books Show? Bryan: It was at a time when I really wanted to use some of my skills that weren’t being used in my book writing. I have a background in theater, improv, and comedy, and I love connecting with people through audio. I had done voiceover and video work before, but I didn’t have an outlet for it. The story of the show is that Jim Kukral, my co-host, was looking for someone to join him. I barely knew him, but I saw his posts on social media. I knew he had an audience from his Author Marketing Club service, so I said, “Hey, I’d be interested.” We had a short interview, and I came up with the idea for the format of delivering the news. Lo and behold, we’re now at episode 223. We’ve never missed a week. Sometimes one of us takes a break, but the show itself has run for 223 consecutive weeks. Why did you focus on indie publishing? Thomas: Your news-and-commentary format could work well in so many other industries. There are a lot of political news podcasts, but not many focused on news in specific professional niches. Yet there are hundreds of industries that could support vibrant, profitable shows like yours. You do a great job covering publishing news, especially indie publishing. Why did you decide to focus on indie authors? Bryan: Part of it was that Jim and I both had more experience in the indie world. While Jim had a traditionally published book, he didn’t have a great experience with it, and that perspective influenced our early episodes. I’ve never been traditionally published. So it was really “podcast what you know.” Indie publishing was our world. Our show became a niche within a niche. It was about indie publishing for people who actually want to know what’s going on. That hyper-focus has been great for our businesses. Plus, having to report on industry news each week keeps us constantly learning. How does the podcast support your business? Thomas: Let’s talk business. You use your podcast to promote what you do. Walk us through how that works. Bryan: We had been podcasting for about a year when I launched my main business in May 2015, which is a done-for-you book description service called Best Page Forward. At the time, I didn’t have much of an email list. My only real audience was the podcast, so I promoted the business there. We didn’t do a hard pitch. I just explained what it was and sent details to our podcast email list, which was maybe up to a thousand people. In the first 60 days, I had over 100 orders. Our listeners immediately said, “Yes, this is what I need. I hate writing book descriptions.” Since then, we’ve used the podcast to promote other services, webinars, and sales. We even launched a live conference based on the podcast. Thomas: That’s such a smart approach. Instead of building a product and then looking for an audience, you built the audience first, then asked, “What do these people need?” For example, a lot of authors would rather write a whole new book than write a two-paragraph sales pitch for the one they’ve already written, so you created a service to solve that problem. When your audience is willing to fly in to meet you in person at a live conference, you know you’ve built something real. Those in-person events really strengthen the community. Bryan: Absolutely. It deepens the relationship. When listeners hear your voice, they already feel like they know you. Podcasting is powerful like that. But then they meet you in person, shake your hand, and have a drink with you. That takes it to another level. These are your potential “true fans,” that people always talk about. How do you get listeners to comment? Thomas: Podcasting is just so intimate. Unlike YouTube, it’s often created and consumed in solitude. It’s someone’s voice in your ears while you’re driving or working out. It forms a bond. But podcasts don’t get a lot of comments. Listeners tend to move on after an episode, and they’re not always in a place to engage. Yet you’ve done something special. Your podcast has one of the most active comment sections I’ve seen. How do you get people to engage like that? Bryan: We’re really proud of that. I talked with Joanna Penn, and she said she was a bit jealous of our engagement. She actually adapted her podcast and made a whole Twitter campaign based on what we do. Each week, we ask a “question of the week” related to one of our top news stories. It’s always an open-ended question. We invite listeners to leave a comment with their response. What’s fun is that people don’t just reply; they also respond to each other. It’s turned into a community. We learn a lot from the comments, too. We also offer a giveaway. Every week, we do a random drawing from those who comment. It’s usually for something we already sell, so it’s a natural and effective cross-promotion. Thomas: It’s a smart system. The giveaway gives you an easy way to promote something you’re already doing, and the question of the week sparks real conversation. YouTubers often use a similar tactic. They’ll start with a question of the day to get comments going. Sometimes they set guidelines like “no spoilers” to manage the discussion. It’s fascinating to see how creators build engagement, and I think you’ve done an excellent job. Why did you start using Patreon? Thomas: In terms of how you’re monetizing the podcast, you’re creating products, services, and events for your listeners, but you’re also on Patreon. In fact, you’ve been on Patreon for over three years, so you were early to the Patreon bandwagon. Why did you start using Patreon? Bryan: At first, we really just wanted to dip our toes in the water. It was a new service at the time. I like to refer to it as “ongoing Kickstarter.” We wanted to see if we could give some small rewards to our listeners and use that to help fund the show. Probably 80 to 90% of the money we make from Patreon goes right back into the show. It helps us gather content every week. We pay a contractor to help us find the news and tips. It’s been really helpful in covering the costs of the show, and it proved that if we offered rewards, people would contribute. Why did you choose the per-episode model? Thomas: You picked a per-episode model. There are two ways to use Patreon: per month or per episode. What was your thinking behind choosing per episode? Bryan: From a business standpoint, if you have a small amount coming in per episode and you release four episodes a month, it adds up. We’ve had people paying $3 per episode over the course of a year, and it ends up being a really nice amount. People are happy to pay it, and when everyone contributes together, it becomes substantial. What are your Patreon reward tiers? Thomas: You’ve kept your tiers simple with a $1 tier and a $3 tier. What do you offer in the $1 tier? Bryan: In the $1 tier, authors get their book listed on our website. After they’ve been a patron for six months, we also send them a couple of free courses. We offer the additional benefits to encourage retention and give people a reason to stay with us on Patreon. Thomas: How do you manage that? How do you know when someone has been a patron for six months? Bryan: We go by total dollar amount. We check our Patreon account regularly. For example, if someone is contributing $1 per episode, that’s about $4 a month. After six months, they’ve contributed roughly $24. When we see that they’ve passed that amount, we send them the reward. Sometimes we batch it and send it to everyone who’s crossed that threshold. It’s very manageable. Thomas: So technically, someone could donate more and reach that threshold faster. There’s no way for you to know if they’ve gamed the system, but I guess it doesn’t really matter, since the goal is that they put in a certain number of dollars. Bryan: Yeah, we don’t mind if people game the system by paying more. That’s not really a problem. Thomas: Gaming the system by giving you more money isn’t really a bug. It’s a feature. Bryan: Exactly. We win that game. What’s included in the $3 tier? Thomas: Your next level is $3 per episode. What’s included at that tier? Bryan: This is the fun one. We actually read their book description aloud on the show and link to it in our show notes. People love hearing their books promoted on the podcast. This was Jim’s idea, and I think it was his best idea for the Sell More Books Show. People really wanted to hear their books mentioned and shared. We’ve received great feedback. In addition to everything from the $1 level, $3 patrons also get the courses a little earlier. After they’ve been members for a certain amount of time, they get even more perks, including a custom book description from Best Page Forward, a membership to Author Marketing Club, and so on. They get the best of everything at that level. Thomas: You also do a great job of motivating people to stay members, because a lot of these rewards are time-based. I’ve heard that tip from folks at Patreon, so it’s a pro tip. When you look at the reward structures used by people who work at Patreon, many of them are time-based, like yours. Patreon is even working on features that will make time-based reward delivery more automatic. Soon, you might be able to set up scripts to email rewards once someone hits a milestone. That would save you the manual work. Why don’t you have a premium, higher-tier level? Bryan: As you’ve pointed out before, this isn’t our primary focus. We’ve shifted a lot of our focus to our live event in Chicago, which we now do annually. We could definitely add a couple more bells and whistles, but it’s important to choose a focus when monetizing your show. For us, that focus has been our businesses. Jim promotes his Happy Book Reviews service, and I promote Best Page Forward. Those are our primary revenue sources. I love Patreon and I’m happy with its steady earnings, but I’ve made more money and seen a better return on investment from Best Page Forward, so that’s where I’ve focused. There are lots of monetization options, and you do a great job of sharing them on this podcast, but if someone tries to do everything, they’ll go crazy and waste time and money. The key is to find one primary source of income and focus on it. Thomas: That’s a good way to look at it. Patreon is a tool, but it doesn’t have to be the tool. For you, it helps the podcast break even. It covers expenses and maybe adds a little extra, but it’s not what pays the rent or mortgage. What advice do you have for podcasters who want to monetize? Thomas: What advice would you give a podcaster who wants to increase their monetization, whether through Patreon or another method? Bryan: It depends on the podcast type, but if you’re considering starting a business that aligns with your audience and offers something your listeners would want, then test it out. See if your podcast listeners and email subscribers are interested in what you offer. If they are, then as your podcast grows, your business will grow with it. That’s been the case for both Jim and me. Thomas: That’s really good. Being willing to think outside the box is key. One more thing I want to mention for people who haven’t listened to the Sell More Books Show: your show is not just a 40-minute advertisement for Best Page Forward or Happy Book Reviews. Those services might get mentioned two or three times in an hour-long episode. That’s important. You can’t build a community or a following with a 30-minute commercial. The show itself has to provide real value. What’s brilliant about a news show is that each week you have fresh content to cover. It gives you natural ways to mention your business without sounding salesy. Bryan: Absolutely. We stumbled into that format, but it’s really helped build trust in the community. People tag us on Facebook and say, “I can’t wait to hear what Jim and Bryan have to say about this.” The show almost fuels itself now. How can news podcasts create industry influence? Thomas: They help do your research for you! One of the first shows I saw that did this well was back in 2006 or 2007. A college graduate started a short podcast on news in the green energy industry. He covered green energy, fracking, petroleum, and whatever was happening that day. It was just a four- or five-minute news summary, released daily. That guy got snatched up quickly into a high-paying job because he became the foremost voice in the space. Mainstream media only covers the energy industry occasionally, but he was covering the nitty-gritty. With just a $50 microphone, he became the voice of that industry. That’s the power of this format, and we need more micro-news sources like that. Just going through the news every week builds real expertise. You start seeing long-term trends. You can say, “Amazon has done things like this before. We talked about this last year and the year before.” That kind of insight doesn’t come from shortcuts; it’s earned over time. Connect with Bryan Cohen Sell More Books Show Bryan’s Patreon Page Best Page Forward Use Novel Marketing’s Patreon Affiliate Link to make an extra $50 for your first 30 backers. The post 013 How Bryan Cohen Built a Business Around His Podcast appeared first on Creative Funding Show.

James Rubart is a bestselling author, audiobook narrator and podcaster (Novel Marketing). He is also our intro guy, so his voice may sound a bit familiar to you. Audiobook sales are the fastest growing segment of books. If you have ever thought about writing a book, you need to also think about recording an audiobook. Questions: Why are audiobooks important? #1: The Size of the Audiobook Industry is Nearly a Billion-Dollar Industry. #2: Book Mavens Listen to Audiobooks. #3: Audiobooks Protect You From the Oprah Effect. #4: Audiobooks Boost Paper & eBook Sales. #5: Audiobooks Give You Access to Non-Readers. #6: Having an Audiobook Makes You Easier to Find. #7: Audiobooks Are Not that Expensive & Easy to Make. How does someone record an audiobook? What are the advantages of recording it yourself? What are the disadvantages of recording it yourself? What advice do you have for someone who wants to hire a professional narrator? Where can we find you online? Use Novel Marketing’s Patreon Affiliate Link to make an extra $50 for your first 30 backers. The post 012 How to Boost Book Revenue With Audiobooks appeared first on Creative Funding Show.

Bremner Morris from Patreon discusses launching successful Patreon pages, engaging and retaining supporters, navigating demonetization on YouTube, avoiding newbie mistakes on Patreon, and connecting with the Patreon creator community.

This is the Creative Funding Show, a podcast for authors, YouTubers, and podcasters who want to fund the work they love without selling out. I’m Thomas Umstattd Jr., and with me today is Bremner Morris. He’s the head of Patreon’s Creator Partnerships and Creator Success Teams. He helps creators join the platform and become more successful once they get on Patreon. What is Patreon? Bremner: Patreon is a membership platform for artists and creators to get paid by their most loyal fans. What I mean by that is artists and creators can use Patreon to engage with their audience on a monthly, recurring basis. They establish a membership fee with those fans by offering them something exclusive and unique as part of that membership campaign. Today, we have about 70,000 creators on the platform, processing about 150 million payments a year. To date, we’ve processed about 300 million payments back to creators. So it’s pretty exciting. Thomas: It’s very exciting, especially when you consider 150 million a year and 300 million total. That means the growth curve is up and to the right quite a bit. How many new creators are joining the platform on a given week? Bremner: We’re adding hundreds of creators per week. We have a lot of folks who join the platform just to test it out. But we also have many who join and see significant outcomes because they have a very established fan base. Patreon is really for folks who have an established fan base. They’re simply converting their most loyal audience into paying subscribers. Thomas: If no one knows who you are, Patreon is not going to help very much. Bremner: We have an internal term that says we’re not for the “zero to fan” problem, we’re for the “fan to member” problem. Thomas: I’ve noticed that many people are surprised by how much their most loyal fans are willing to give. There’s a curve, and at the top are a few fans who would happily give you hundreds of dollars a month, sometimes without even wanting the rewards. That’s the big surprise. You put together these amazing perks, yet some fans never even send you their mailing address. I’ve heard creators say, “Yeah, I reached out, and they replied, but they didn’t care about the rewards. They just wanted to support me.” Creators who aren’t using something like Patreon are leaving money on the table. If you’re an author just selling books, your most passionate fan and your most casual fan both pay the same $10. But that passionate fan wants more. They want a deeper connection with you, so you just have to give them the opportunity. Bremner: There are probably two motivations for a patron to sign up. One is a support motivation. Patrons really love what you do and want to continue supporting your craft so you can make it a sustainable lifestyle. The other side of the coin is a benefits-oriented patron. Patrons sign up because of the exclusive benefits they get for being a member. Interestingly, these motivations merge over time. We’ve seen that folks who sign up as support-oriented patrons tend to migrate toward being more benefits-oriented, and those who sign up for extra episodes or exclusive merchandise begin to feel great about supporting creators they love. The average patron spends about $12 on the platform, which is more than a typical subscription to a music or video service. Some creators offer benefit tiers in the thousands of dollars and have patrons converting at that rate. Thomas: It’s remarkable. You spend $10 for Spotify, and it’s split among tens of thousands of songs. Whereas if you’re spending $12 on Patreon, it’s probably split between five or six creators. That’s a much bigger piece of the pie. If I’m an artist on Spotify, any given listener may be giving me a few pennies. On Patreon, I could be getting a few dollars from that same listener. What’s the best way for a creator to speak to both motivations? Thomas: So what’s the best way for a creator to speak to both motivations? I often see creators who are really good at saying, “Help me do this,” and others who are great at saying, “Look at these amazing rewards.” What’s the best way to do both? Bremner: First, creators need to understand the motivations of their audience. Some audiences are really support-oriented, others are more benefits-oriented, and some are a mix. We advise creators to take a step back when launching their membership program and think about their audience’s motivation. If they’re unsure, they can ask their audience directly to understand what drives them. Thomas: A great way to do this is through a contest. Everyone enters the contest by giving you their email address, and the winners get to have a conversation with you. This builds your email list and gives you qualitative research as you chat with your fans. Bremner: We have a survey we’ve been sending to creators that they can use with their audience to understand those motivations. Right now, we’re just piloting it, but we hope to offer it publicly on our website soon. We’re revamping our education materials and investing more in a comprehensive guide to using Patreon. So stay tuned. How do you connect with reward-based supporters? Thomas: That’s how you connect with cause-based folks. What about for more reward-based folks? Bremner: Once you understand your audience’s motivations, the next step is to highlight the benefits of membership. For a support-oriented fan, focus on what their backing means to you. Explain how their participation helps you maintain a sustainable, independent creative career and how their ongoing support fuels your work. For a benefits-oriented fan, focus on what they get in return for their membership dollars, like exclusive merchandise, bonus episodes, or whatever fits your brand. Frame it as a value-for-value exchange by saying, “At this tier, you get X; at the next tier, you get X plus Y.” And rather than talking about Patreon directly, connect it to something they already know. Call it a membership, like a gym, or a subscription tied to their credit card. Thomas: It allows you to buy all the things that you buy. Bremner: Exactly. And credit cards have benefits. Most people understand, “Hey, I’m going to fork over $12 a month in exchange for something in return.” Creators must realize that what they’re offering is valuable. Many creators are uncomfortable “asking for money,” but really, they’re asking for fair value in exchange for what they contribute to the world. You’re assigning a dollar value to your work. That value should reflect both how much your fan base values it and how much time, energy, and emotion you’ve invested. Thomas: Your patrons are actually helping you create whatever it is you’re making. If you create an amazing animated video on YouTube, someone who donates gets to feel like, “I helped make that possible.” Maybe they can’t do what you do as the artist, but they can still feel a sense of ownership, and that’s powerful. One of my clients started creating a little wall with bricks on it, putting her patrons’ names on the bricks. It’s straight out of university fundraising, where they build a new library and put donors’ names on a brick for $1,000. People love that. They love knowing they contributed, even in a small way. Maybe it’s a million dollars to have the library named after you, but it’s only a few hundred to get a brick with your name. Why does recurring income matter for creators? Bremner: Having an ongoing, sustainable stream of income truly enables creative independence. Creators, whether musicians, authors, podcasters, or video creators,  have often had to pander to sponsors, ad dollars, or distribution platforms like YouTube or Spotify. That means tailoring their content to algorithms instead of focusing on creating meaningful, quality content for their loyal fans. The ongoing relationship with fans is key. First, it gives predictability for the creator. Second, it empowers independent creation that appeals to your most dedicated audience. Thomas: And it helps smooth out the lumpiness of income. I’m primarily from the author world, and authors experience the worst lumpy income. Even successful traditionally published authors might receive just three checks a year. Those checks can be large, but authors need discipline not to blow it all. I’ve talked to agents whose clients make plenty of money, but because it doesn’t come in consistently, they struggle with debt and need advances. That’s one reason I was excited about Patreon when I discovered it back in 2014. I’d seen Kickstarter in action. You might run a Kickstarter for season six of your podcast and get all your money at the beginning. But that means you’d better have done a great job budgeting. Patreon can provide a steadier income, plus you still get to keep those “lumps” from book sales. In fact, people who buy a book through Patreon are usually paying more for it because they’re not coming for a deal. If they wanted a bargain, they’d go to Spotify or YouTube. Patreon is for your most passionate fans. It reduces anxiety. Maybe you’re not making tons on Patreon, but just knowing the rent or mortgage is covered next month lets you take creative risks. Bremner: We see Patreon, or membership in general, as your core sustaining income stream. It doesn’t have to be Patreon, but a recurring membership is like a paycheck. Other opportunities, like book deals or sponsorships, are those bonus bumps. They’re wonderful, but inconsistent. The nice thing about Patreon is that we’re not an exclusive platform. We won’t prevent you from doing other things. Our mission is to help creators get paid, and we believe that starts with sustainable income so you can confidently pursue your craft. How is Patreon different from Kickstarter? Bremner: We don’t really see Kickstarter as a competitor. It’s an additive income stream for creators who need a single influx of cash. Kickstarter is built for one-time campaigns. Patreon is designed for ongoing support. With Kickstarter, your audience shows up for a single project, and then you have to re-engage them with a whole new campaign next time. That’s tough. We’ve seen creators run a Kickstarter for a big up-front project, then transition that audience into a membership model. Patreon is about forming a contract with your fans. Yes, it takes investment and responsibility, but it can be more fruitful long-term. It also allows you to offer more compelling rewards, because you’re thinking in terms of a lifetime value, not just a one-off transaction. Thomas: It doesn’t matter how high-quality your shirts are if people only buy them once. But if you want them to buy the 2018 and 2019 shirts, their experience has to be great. It’s easier to get people excited about a Kickstarter because it’s for a limited time, but it’s also exhausting. After a Kickstarter campaign, creators often need a whole month to recover. It’s so much energy packed into such a short window. It’s like harvesting crops before the rain. You don’t know when the rain will come, so you work like crazy. Patreon is more like a greenhouse. It’s a consistent, slower-paced effort over time and less pressure each month. Why is subscription the future of creative income? Bremner: If you think about how the world is moving, most services are becoming subscription-based. We believe that art and creativity will follow. Platforms like YouTube and podcasts are already serialized and recurring. Our membership model aligns well with how those creators release content. Other categories, like musicians, authors, and fine artists, tend to work toward single moments in time. But we’re seeing a shift. Many creators are transitioning their craft and fan engagement toward ongoing subscriptions. It’s not just happening in the creator economy. It’s everywhere. I now have a subscription to United Wi-Fi. Thomas: When I was a kid, I bought Photoshop. Now I subscribe to Photoshop. Bremner: Exactly. And the hope is that, for your fans, it’s a smaller amount of money each month but a more valuable ongoing relationship. Is Patreon reviving the short story? Thomas: I’ve noticed in the author space that Patreon is bringing back the short story. In the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s, you had magazines full of short stories. Readers bought them, and writers got paid. Then the internet came along and basically killed the short story. You had the occasional anthology, but most writers couldn’t earn from short stories. As a craft, it really declined, which was sad, because the format allows for powerful storytelling. Sometimes the short film before a Pixar movie is just as moving as the full-length feature. You’re sitting there crying, thinking, “Why did you do this to me, Pixar?” My wife and I actually have a print of the volcano love story from one of those shorts hanging in our house. We both love it. It’s incredibly emotional, and it didn’t take an hour and a half to tell. That’s what’s so powerful about short-form storytelling. Lately, I’ve noticed more authors are looking for something they can offer their readers each month. While they’re working on their big epic fantasy novels, they’re also writing short stories along the way. It’s great for honing their craft, and thanks to subscriptions, they’re actually getting paid for those short stories. It’s a fantastic reward for both readers and writers. It’s interesting to see how trends come and go. Pulp fiction was huge in the 1920s when paperbacks made books cheap and accessible. Then it faded away. Now, with Kindle and digital publishing, pulp fiction is making a big comeback. There’s a whole movement of writing fast and publishing often. Some readers will devour 100 books a year and want to binge all 20 books in a series. It’s fun to watch that pendulum swing, and right now, Patreon seems to be in a good place within that cycle. How can creators engage fans beyond their core craft? Bremner: Your fan base is supporting you as an artist, and there are things you do beyond your specific craft that can be compelling to your audience. A great example is from the music world. Some musicians share behind-the-scenes content, whether it’s in the studio, on tour, or just hanging out with friends. That inside scoop on who they are as artists is really compelling to their most loyal fans. Another example is Mickey Kendall, a writer I spoke with. She started posting recipes for obscure dishes on Twitter. Her audience responded, saying they wanted more. It’s not directly related to her writing, but it excited and engaged her audience, and it’s become a significant driver of her ongoing connection with them. When we consult with creators, we help identify activities that may be slightly outside their core craft but still offer their fans new, compelling ways to engage. How is the Patreon relationship different from Kickstarter? Bremner: This goes back to the Kickstarter comparison. We see Patreon not just as a membership platform, but as a relationship between the creator and their fans that travels with them across the internet. That might mean offering a reward like a private page on your website, a chat server like Discord, or a livestream. These are digitally fulfilled rewards that deepen engagement. And they don’t necessarily have to happen on Patreon.com. These kinds of ongoing experiences wouldn’t really work through a one-time campaign like Kickstarter. You wouldn’t run a Kickstarter just to offer a single livestream, for example. Thomas: And then you’re stuck doing a lot of traffic copying, figuring out who paid and who didn’t. It’s a hassle. It’s the same problem coworking spaces have with day passes. They need someone to check at the door. YouTube is rolling out its own version of a subscription platform. How is that different from Patreon? How does Patreon compare to YouTube’s subscription offering? Bremner: We’re actually excited that YouTube is starting to think about how to help creators get paid. That’s part of our mission. We’ve influenced the market to recognize that subscription services have value. The key difference is that many creators don’t see themselves as “YouTubers.” They see themselves as creators who distribute through YouTube, alongside Twitch, blogs, Discord, and other platforms. YouTube’s subscription only works within its ecosystem. We believe your fan base should move with you across the internet. Creators want their fans to have one pass that works across all platforms. Also, many creators are hesitant about YouTube’s motives. They don’t necessarily want all engagement to be locked into one platform. Thomas: This isn’t YouTube’s first attempt. Remember the tip jar? Nobody used it. Tip jars online rarely work. We created a WordPress plugin with a free version and a premium upgrade. You could donate to support the free version, but in the plugin’s entire history, despite being used on thousands of websites, we’ve made about $5 in donations. That model just doesn’t work. I’m curious to see if YouTube’s new subscription button will take off. If people want to help creators, they should sign up for YouTube Red. A view from a YouTube Red subscriber is far more valuable than the fraction of a cent from an ad that gets skipped after 15 seconds. But people are still hesitant to pay $10 or $12 a month, even though it’s not that expensive. Bremner: The value proposition is muddled. It’s hard for fans to understand what they’re getting and how it supports the artist. Also, within YouTube, there’s a lack of clarity about whether subscriptions or ad revenue are the company’s priority. Thomas: Oh, it’s definitely advertising. YouTube is owned by Alphabet, which is basically Google. Their entire business model is built on dominating the ad market. And they’re really good at it. As a podcaster, I sometimes envy YouTube’s monetization system. In podcasting, you need a sponsor who inserts a static ad into your MP3. Everyone hears the same ad. On YouTube, though, it’s totally dynamic. Visit Casper’s website once, and for the next 30 days, you’ll see Casper ads everywhere, no matter what video you’re watching. Their ad tracking is powerful. Honestly, I don’t think anyone will ever beat Google at advertising. Maybe Facebook, but I’d bet on Google. Bremner: I was trying to be politically correct and give them the benefit of the doubt, that maybe they are investing in subscriptions. But that’s part of the problem. Subscriptions are an ancillary offering for them. They only started rolling this out because they saw a market need: creators want ongoing relationships with their fans. You’re right, YouTube does advertising well for itself. That’s why Patreon exists. Our CEO, Jack, was a YouTube creator. His videos had millions of views, but he only made a few hundred dollars in ad revenue. YouTube is great at serving up ads to viewers and making money for advertisers, but it’s not great at paying creators. We’ve seen a lot of creators move to Patreon because of demonetization. Some have 12 million YouTube subscribers and still can’t make ends meet. They used to earn $20,000 to $40,000 a month in ad revenue, but a change in the algorithm can flip that switch overnight. Patreon exists so creators don’t have to depend on an algorithm. We give them the infrastructure to engage with their fans on their own terms. How does Patreon handle political diversity and free expression? Thomas: That’s something a lot of people worry about, especially in the middle of the country. There’s this sense that tech companies on the coasts have very specific political views, and if you don’t share those views, they might cut off your income. That’s scary. You feel powerless when Facebook stops showing your posts or YouTube demonetizes you. How does Patreon navigate that? You’re based in San Francisco. I imagine there’s not a lot of political diversity there. Am I wrong? Bremner: Two things. First, our brand promise is that we will not come between creators and their fans. One of our core internal values is being creator-first. We build tools to help creators connect with their audience. From our perspective, creators can span the entire political spectrum. If they have an audience and want to use our infrastructure, more power to them, regardless of their political beliefs. Now, we do have content guidelines. We draw the line at hate speech and certain adult content. But overall, we’re an open platform. If fans want to support a creator, even if someone at Patreon disagrees with them, that doesn’t prevent them from using the platform. We have successful creators across the political spectrum. Unlike ad-based platforms, where advertisers dictate what is acceptable, our Patreon model empowers creators to thrive without compromising their voice to fit what’s “advertiser-friendly.” Why does creator-first policy matter in content moderation? Thomas: These big corporations can bully platforms into suppressing speech they don’t like. I remember a video that made fun of Vegemite, which is a popular food in Australia. It was an American guy tasting it, and he got super sick; it was hilarious. The video had millions of views, but it was terrible for the Vegemite brand, and eventually, the video was taken down. I don’t know if it’s back up, this was years ago, but I remember the takedown said it violated the terms of service. I thought, “What did this guy do wrong? Who owns the copyright?” It didn’t make sense. But from YouTube’s perspective, their relationship with Vegemite the corporation was more valuable than their relationship with some random creator making a funny video. That’s why I really appreciate the creator-first philosophy. Just because Patreon is based in San Francisco doesn’t mean everyone has to agree politically. Back in the day, Twitter called itself the “free speech wing of the free speech party.” The idea was to let speech happen, and the truth would rise to the top. That’s one thing I really like about Patreon. Now, to be fair, Kickstarter has gotten a lot better, but in the early days, I had some clients run into issues. For example, Mary DeMuth had her Kickstarter campaign rejected. It was a book about overcoming sexual assault and abuse. Kickstarter classified it as “self-help,” and that didn’t meet their artistic standards. They basically said, “This isn’t artistic enough,” which felt ridiculous. She ended up using Indiegogo instead, which was much more laid-back. Indiegogo felt more like Patreon, where people can support you if they want to. You’re not forcing anyone to buy something or support a creator they don’t like. It’s ultimately up to the patrons. Bremner: It’s important to realize that Patreon doesn’t invest in discoverability. We’re not pushing specific creators to fans based on who they already follow. Our platform is built around creators engaging directly with their fan base. In fact, 20-80% of fans join Patreon because a creator invited them. We don’t go out recruiting patrons on behalf of creators. We simply provide the infrastructure for creators to build those relationships themselves. That “creator-first” idea is central to our business. Patreon was founded by a creator who saw a problem in the market. He remains our chief creator and helps us build better tools and products that prioritize creators, not third parties or advertisers. Other platforms often end up beholden to different stakeholders. We don’t want to be in that position. What is Patreon building next? Thomas: He who pays the piper calls the tune, and when you’re the piper, you care a lot about who’s paying you. What is Patreon working on in 2018? Bremner: First, we know there’s a lot of cost and time involved in fulfilling membership benefits. We want to reduce that so creators can offer more compelling rewards to their fans. That includes building more advanced fulfillment tools like a better CRM so creators can track what’s owed to patrons on a recurring basis. That tool, called Fulfillment Manager, is currently in beta. It’s a robust CRM, and we hope to automate more of those functions to streamline delivery. Second, we’re focusing on merchandise. It’s one of the highest fulfillment costs for creators. We’re investing in ways to make merchandise more affordable to offer, and to allow time-based rewards, like staying for six months to get an exclusive T-shirt, or for two years to receive a custom CD. Those long-term benefits encourage retention. Third, we’re expanding our platform capabilities. About a year ago, we released a platform API, which allows Patreon to integrate with other platforms. There are now about 30 different apps built on top of our API, including livestream tools and Mailchimp. For example, you can build custom mailing lists based on patron data. Our goal is for Patreon to fade into the background and allow creators to manage their memberships wherever they engage fans. We also just launched a new video tool called Lens. It’s like a private Snapchat where creators can share short-term video content (available for 24 hours) with a specific segment of their audience. Finally, we’re investing in our infrastructure. We now process a huge volume of payments each year, so we’re hiring more engineers focused on billing, infrastructure, and system robustness. Scaling from zero to hundreds of millions of dollars in transactions gets complex fast. How is Patreon encouraging long-term support? Thomas: I’m really excited about those retention features. One challenge with rewards like Q&A episodes is that, over time, fans tend to ask the same questions again and again. So the perceived value of that benefit decreases. Having something like an exclusive T-shirt for patrons who stay a year is a great way to counterbalance that. Even if the Q&A becomes repetitive, new fans still want those answers, and you can continue engaging them. Meanwhile, long-term rewards keep veteran fans interested and rewarded. Bremner: At a high level, we’ve organized our product teams around three big questions: How do we help creators acquire patrons? How do we help them retain patrons? How do we help them increase subscription revenue through higher-tier benefits? We’re constantly studying what creators are doing well, so we can productize those successes. We’re also identifying areas where they struggle and working to reduce friction or cost in offering benefits. My team focuses on consulting and engaging with creators, learning what works, and then scaling that knowledge across our platform. We’re investing in creator success, marketing, webinars, tutorials, and everything needed to help creators succeed on Patreon. It might not all be product, but it’s all in service of helping creators grow and thrive. Links: Creative Funding Show’s Patreon Affiliate Link  About Bremner Bremner Morris is the Head of Patreon’s Creator Partnerships and Creator Success teams focused on helping creators develop their membership strategies. Bremner spends his days consulting with creators on their membership businesses as well as providing key insights from creators to Patreon’s leadership team. Before joining Patreon, Bremner lead Business Development, Partnerships and Operations at AppDirect, a technology company that provided the commerce infrastructure for software vendors to launch and scale their subscription business. Bremner brings similar consulting frameworks from AppDirect to the content and creator membership/subscription space. Bremner lives in San Francisco and is a cyclist, runner and mediocre drummer. The post 010 Introduction to Patreon With Bremner Morris appeared first on Creative Funding Show.

This is the Creative Funding Show, a podcast for authors, YouTubers, and podcasters who want to fund the work they love without selling out. I’m Thomas Umstattd Jr., and with me today is Jacqueline Isaacs. She is the strategic director of Bellwether Communications, where she crafts measurable, well-researched content strategies for clients. She is also co-author of the book Call to Freedom: Why You Can Be a Christian and a Libertarian, which I’m sure is not controversial at all. It successfully raised $8,000 through Indiegogo in the summer of 2016. Where did the idea for Call to Freedom come from? Jacqueline: The idea dates back to around 2012. The six of us who went on to write the book, our editor, Elise Daniels, and five chapter contributors, met in a book club in Washington, DC. The club was sponsored by a Christian nonprofit and gave young Christian professionals a place to talk about faith, culture, and how to live out our beliefs in the highly political environment of DC. Most of us leaned toward the free market side, from conservative to libertarian. A conference called the International Students for Liberty Conference needed to fill some panel slots. They reached out to members of our group, and the six of us proposed a panel titled something like, “Is Christianity Coercive?” In libertarian circles, coercion and the proper use of force are important issues. Thomas: Libertarians are not big fans of the use of force. Jacqueline: Right, especially not from government or authorities. That’s where tension often arises between faith and libertarianism, since being a Christian means accepting authority from God, the Bible, and the church. Some libertarians resist that idea. Our panel explored this question. It was at 9:00 a.m. against other interesting panels, so we didn’t expect a large turnout, but we packed the room. Students asked thoughtful questions. Some were from Christian campuses where being libertarian caused conflict; others were from secular campuses where being libertarian was fine but being Christian was the source of tension. A recurring request from these students was for a resource they could take back to campus to explain how they could be both Christian and libertarian. We could recommend books on economics or faith and culture by great scholars, but there was no single book tailored to young adults who wanted to articulate both their faith and libertarian political philosophy. How did you turn the panel into a book? Thomas: You had this successful panel and realized the book you wanted to recommend didn’t exist. You decided to create it. What did you do next? Jacqueline: It took us about a year to craft our proposal and pitch it to traditional publishers. We didn’t immediately consider self-publishing because there were six of us, all with full-time jobs, and no one volunteered to take on the logistics. Eventually, we were picked up by a publisher specializing in academic publishing, which was more focused on textbooks and classroom resources. They liked that we were targeting college students, but they didn’t offer much support for promoting or marketing the book. Why did you use crowdfunding? Thomas: Basically, they would make the book exist but wouldn’t sell copies. What was your plan to get the books into students’ hands? Jacqueline: That’s when we decided to crowdfund. I had studied crowdfunding academically, and 2016 was when crowdfunding surpassed traditional venture capital in funding volume. We wanted to raise money to market the book and connect with our audience before release. Crowdfunding let us generate preorders and build buzz ahead of the launch. Thomas: Crowdfunding creates urgency with a definite end date. It triggers scarcity and popularity cues, turning a launch into an event. You were going to publish anyway, but crowdfunding made it easier to get attention. Jacqueline: Exactly. An unexpected benefit was that we were promoted from our publisher’s academic imprint to their main brand because of the campaign’s success. Why did you choose Indiegogo over Kickstarter? Thomas: You went from the minor leagues to the major leagues, so to speak. Why Indiegogo? Jacqueline: We chose Indiegogo for a few reasons. At the time, Kickstarter seemed more focused on tech projects, video, and gaming. Books tended to do better on Indiegogo. Also, because our topic involved faith and politics, Indiegogo was more open to potentially controversial subjects. Finally, with six team members, some weren’t comfortable with Kickstarter’s all-or-nothing model. Indiegogo let us keep what we raised, even if we didn’t meet our $8,000 goal, which made everyone more comfortable. Thomas: That’s the biggest difference between the two. Kickstarter has broadened politically a bit, but it’s still narrower than Indiegogo, which is more laid-back. What’s the downside of partial funding? Jacqueline: Indiegogo takes a higher cut if you do partial funding. It also lacks the built-in urgency of all-or-nothing funding. We played down that feature and marketed it as though it were all-or-nothing to keep the sense of urgency. Thomas: That makes sense. Kickstarter’s all-or-nothing model creates real consequences if backers don’t act, which motivates them to spread the word. That can lead to both positive and awkward situations, like strangers spamming on your behalf to unlock stretch goals. How did you decide on rewards? Thomas: What rewards did you set up? Jacqueline: The rewards were interesting. We researched other successful book projects on Indiegogo and Kickstarter, looking at popular options like ebooks, physical copies, signed copies, book bundles and how they were priced. From there, we projected how much we could make from each category and then set our overall goal of $8,000. We worked backward from that projection. Thomas: I think that’s the better way to do it. Some campaigns are set up to fail because their rewards are too limited, making it impossible to reach their goal. You have to ask, “How many people do we realistically need?” If your goal is $10,000 and your main reward is $10, you need 1,000 backers, which is more than most people can find. But if your main reward is $100, you only need 100 people. Starting with rewards and estimating from there makes sense. How close to your goal did you land? Jacqueline: We ended at $8,025 on our $8,000 goal. None of us made that final donation to push it over. It was genuine. Thomas: That extra $25 probably saved you a few hundred dollars in Indiegogo fees since their percentage is higher if you don’t meet your goal. Jacqueline: Yes. Our rewards ranged from a thank-you at the lowest level to early bird discounts on ebooks and paperbacks for the first 25 buyers. One of our most successful options was a signed copy for $35 compared to $20 for the regular paperback. Just for signing our names, we earned an extra $15 per book, which gave us great margins.  If I could redo it, I’d look for more ways to add value like that without increasing costs. Do early bird rewards work? Thomas: You need those big margins to cover fixed costs like cover design and editing. Early bird offers make sense if you don’t already have a large platform. If you launch a board game that funds in eight hours and early birds sell out in 30 minutes, that’s frustrating for latecomers. But early birds help you reach 60% funding faster, and campaigns that hit 60% almost always reach 100%. If you have weeks for people to grab early bird rewards, it works. But if you already have thousands of eager backers, early birds aren’t necessary and can alienate people who discover your campaign later. Most of the opposition to early birds comes from the board game space, where campaigns often fund very quickly. How did you create your campaign video? Thomas: You had a great campaign video, and I remember asking about it, expecting you’d used expensive software. How did you edit it? Jacqueline: We filmed in our editor’s backyard and in front of her church. It looked like we had a professional setup, but she edited it on a $5 iPhone app. Thomas: Do you remember the name of the app? Jacqueline: I don’t. I should have asked her. Thomas: This is a good reminder that you don’t need expensive software. Phones can be more powerful than older laptops, and mobile editing apps can be very capable. Jacqueline: She finished the edit in about a week, working in her spare time. We filmed extra footage of several of us saying almost all the lines in the script at different locations, so she had plenty to work with. Thomas: That’s the way to do it. More footage gives the editor better options. What was the hardest part of the campaign? Thomas: What was the hardest thing about running your Indiegogo campaign? Jacqueline: Fulfillment. Everything was fun until the books arrived. I enjoyed communicating with supporters and promoting the campaign, but when my living room was overflowing with piles of books, the reality set in. My co-authors offered to help, but I told them I’d handle it myself. Thomas: Just pour a glass of wine, spend 30 minutes, slap some labels on, and you’re done, right? Jacqueline: Not even close. We had factored in the costs, but there’s more to it than shipping. You need bubble mailers, labels, and time. Thomas: When I did fulfillment for my book, I found the best prices for mailers and labels at Sam’s Club. They were cheaper than Amazon. Ideally, your publisher should ship directly, which saves money by avoiding double shipping, but some publishers won’t do that. Jacqueline: Ours didn’t. One thing I did was take a single book in a bubble mailer to the post office and have them price it with Media Mail before buying postage. That way I didn’t overpay, and when you’re shipping hundreds of books, that makes a big difference. Thomas: Media Mail in the U.S. applies to books, CDs, and DVDs. It’s very slow but very inexpensive. What would you do differently? Thomas: If you could do the campaign over again, what would you do differently? How would you structure it or promote it? Jacqueline: Finding additional ways to add value that didn’t cost us anything would have been helpful. We were limited because the manuscript had already been sent to the publisher, so we couldn’t add people’s names in the back as a thank-you, which is a popular option. Another change would be timing. I ran the campaign in the summer because I was a college instructor and had more time then. But fundraising professionals will tell you summer is a dry season for giving. People are more generous at the end of the year with Christmas and end-of-year giving, and also early in the year when they set new goals. By summer, those resolutions have faded, and people aren’t yet thinking about holiday giving. They’re on vacation, kids are out of school, and it’s harder to get their attention. If I did it again, I’d run it in the fall up to the end of the year. Thomas: That’s especially true if your target audience is students. The last thing they want to think about in the summer is another book to read. Games and entertainment products may do better in summer, but you have to think about your specific audience. If you have a lot of student email addresses, they may not even check those accounts over the summer. Knowing your audience and timing your campaign accordingly is key for any crowdfunding, whether Kickstarter, Indiegogo, or Patreon. How do you choose between Indiegogo and Kickstarter? Thomas: What advice would you give someone who’s deciding between Indiegogo and Kickstarter for their book launch? Jacqueline: With either platform, have a support system in place. Some campaigns get a huge PR push and meet their goal in eight hours, but that’s rare unless it’s your full-time focus. A support network of friends and family can help you get early momentum. Getting to 60% funding is key. It triggers algorithms, boosts search rankings, and gets your project recommended to others. It also builds the perception that your project will succeed. Thomas: Football stadiums for winning teams have more people than those for losing teams. People want to be on the winning team. Jacqueline: Exactly. We had six authors—two married to each other, and the rest married to other people—so ten people counting our spouses. Each of us had friends, family, coworkers, and church connections. That’s the basis of networking. There’s a TED Talk and a book called Friend of a Friend that explains networking as connecting through people you already know rather than meeting strangers at an event. Crowdfunding works the same way. Someone is more likely to support your campaign if a friend or family member has already done so. Having that support in place before you launch is critical. Thomas: Don’t underestimate the power of the personal ask. Call someone and ask if they’ll back the project. Early on, that’s more sales than marketing. Close friends might give $10 or $20, sometimes more, knowing they can reduce it later. Kickstarter makes this easier than Indiegogo, because on Kickstarter you can pledge a larger amount and adjust it later. Some campaigns use this to help hit milestones. Supporters pledge high amounts early to get the campaign to 60% or 90%, then lower them later. But remember, if you barely make your goal, Kickstarter will still take the full amount, so don’t pledge more than you’re comfortable giving. What final advice do you have for creators? Thomas: Any final advice for creators wanting to fund their art? Jacqueline: Don’t be afraid to ask. Creators often discount the value they provide, assuming backers are just doing them a favor. In reality, the books, podcasts, and other creative work add real value to people’s lives. When you ask for support, you’re inviting people to partake in that value and become part of the vision. There’s an essay by Henri Nouwen called The Spirituality of Fundraising that says asking for money is casting a vision for how the world could be different or better, whether through more beautiful through art or a new program. You’re inviting people to join that vision. People are looking for opportunities to make the world a better place, and you’re giving them one. It’s not just a charity case. What you’re doing matters, and that should be celebrated. Connect with Jaqueline BellweatherComs.com Jaqueline on LinkedIn Jaqueline on X Jacqueline Isaacs is the strategic director for Bellwether Communications, where she crafts measurable, well-researched content strategies for clients to achieve their goals. She also serves as the firm’s managing partner in Nashville, TN. She co-authored the book, Called to Freedom: Why You Can Be Christian and Libertarian (Affiliate Link), which successfully raised $8k through an Indiegogo campaign in the summer of 2016. Jacqueline Isaacs Indiegogo Campaign Linkedin Twitter Instagram Bellwether Communications Other Links Called to Freedom Facebook Page Called to Freedom Instagram David Burkus Tedx Talk Friend of a Friend by David Burkus (Affiliate Link) A Spirituality of Fundraising by Henri Nouwen (Affiliate Link) iPhone Movie Editing App The post 009 Launching a Controversial Book on Indiegogo with Jacqueline Isaacs appeared first on Creative Funding Show.