The Exit Five CMO Podcast (Hosted by Dave Gerhardt)

#239: Measurement | In this Exit Five live session, Dave sits down with Pranav Piyush, Co-Founder & CEO of Paramark (ex-PayPal, Dropbox, Adobe, BILL), to talk about the future of B2B marketing measurement.Spoiler alert: it’s not clicks.They break down why the old way of doing attribution doesn’t cut it anymore and why leading B2B teams are shifting toward incrementality, experimentation, and marketing mix modeling.Dave and Pranav also cover:The gaps in the old way of doing attributionWhat the best B2B marketing teams are doing now for attributionThe key questions CMOs face from boards and execs about measurementThree things you can do this quarter to improve your measurementTimestamps(00:00) - – Intro to Pranav (04:08) - – The Purple Cow mindset: why differentiation matters more than ever (05:48) - – Pranav’s background (PayPal, Dropbox, Adobe, BILL → Paramark) (06:53) - – “Measurement is Robin. Creative is Batman.” (08:08) - – Why click/touch attribution is flawed and misleading (11:38) - – The 95/5 rule: most of your audience isn’t in-market…yet (14:23) - – How top brands (Asana, DoorDash, P&G) measure beyond attribution (15:48) - – What is incrementality and why it’s more useful than attribution (18:08) - – Why revenue isn’t always the right KPI - especially in long sales cycles (20:08) - – Intro to marketing mix modeling (MMM) and how it works (22:08) - – Visualizing baseline vs. incremental impact on pipeline (23:23) - – Geo testing: how to prove a channel’s impact without attribution tools (25:23) - – The branded search trap: why you should test turning it off (29:28) - – Even Meta, Google, LinkedIn admit attribution is flawed (30:13) - – How to measure untrackable stuff (organic, content, social) (33:43) - – Why “credit” kills performance (35:33) - – Measurement for startups (38:28) - – What to do if all you track is closed-won revenue (40:13) - – Why attribution software is overkill under $100K in spend (41:28) - – Should you ask “How did you hear about us?” (44:13) - – How to carve out budget for channel testing (46:53) - – Don’t skip audience research (50:13) - – Creativity is still your #1 growth lever (measurement just supports it) (51:43) - – Wrap-up and final takeaways Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***Today's episode is brought to you by Knak.Email (in my humble opinion) is the still the greatest marketing channel of all-time.It’s the only way you can truly “own” your audience.But when it comes to building the emails - if you’ve ever tried building an email in an enterprise marketing automation platform, you know how painful it can be. Templates are too rigid, editing code can break things and the whole process just takes forever. That’s why we love Knak here at Exit Five. Knak a no-code email platform that makes it easy to create on-brand, high-performing emails - without the bottlenecks.Frustrated by clunky email builders? You need Knak.Tired of ‘hoping’ the email you sent looks good across all devices? Just test in Knak first.Big team making it hard to collaborate and get approvals? Definitely Knak.And the best part? Everything takes a fraction of the time.See Knak in action at knak.com/exit-five. Or just let them know you heard about Knak on Exit Five.***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

Dmitry Shamis, former Head of Brand at HubSpot and founder of Oh Snap, shares his expertise in B2B marketing. He discusses the true essence of brand identity and how many teams become overwhelmed by busywork rather than focusing on impactful marketing. Dmitry emphasizes the importance of having a unique point of view and aligning marketing with product strategies for genuine differentiation. The conversation also explores how AI can streamline processes and enhance creativity, while reminding marketers of the value of human ingenuity.

Udi Ledergor, the Chief Evangelist at Gong, is a marketing mastermind who turned Gong into a powerhouse brand. In this engaging discussion, he reveals how courage in B2B marketing can ignite creativity and drive success. Udi shares practical lessons from scaling Gong to over $100 million in revenue, insights from his book 'Courageous Marketing,' and why a clear brand personality is essential. He also highlights the significance of innovative campaigns, like Times Square billboards, and how to measure brand impact effectively.

Join Jason Oakley, founder of Productive PMM, Eric Holland, senior PMM at Betterworks, and Natalie Marcotullio, head of growth at Navattic, as they unpack the critical role of product marketing in B2B. They discuss effective positioning and differentiation strategies, the importance of continuous engagement, and how to measure impact on revenue. Insightful anecdotes highlight the difference between proactive and reactive approaches, while tools like OKRs offer a framework for aligning marketing initiatives with company goals.

Aditya Vempaty, VP of Marketing at MoEngage and seasoned expert from Nutanix and Amplitude, shares invaluable insights on marketing metrics. He stresses the necessity of translating marketing performance into a language that resonates with leadership. Aditya breaks down essential metrics into four actionable buckets and reveals the seven core metrics that every B2B leader should report on regularly. He also highlights the importance of aligning marketing and sales efforts, and how effective dashboards can elevate communication and transparency across teams.

Emma Stratton, founder of Punchy and author of "Make It Punchy," shares her expertise in B2B messaging and positioning. She emphasizes the importance of clarity over cleverness, showcasing how to avoid vague copy that falls flat. Emma discusses her process for creating message-market fit through customer research. The conversation also touches on personal development strategies like journaling and running to enhance creativity and productivity. Tune in for transformative insights into both messaging and personal growth!

Matt Carnevale, Head of Community at Exit Five, shares how they doubled community membership and boosted engagement in less than a year. He emphasizes treating the community like a product, which is pivotal for growth. Key strategies include leveraging audience feedback, effective onboarding, and implementing 'tripwires' to enhance engagement. There’s a strong focus on converting LinkedIn followers into active members and continuously refining offerings based on member insights. This approach is a game changer for B2B communities!

Jen Allen-Knuth, founder of DemandJen and a B2B sales expert, shares her journey from corporate to entrepreneurship with over 15 years of experience. She discusses enriching the marketing-sales partnership by co-creating engaging content that resonates with customers. Jen emphasizes the importance of authentic storytelling in videos and how she built her personal brand on LinkedIn. She also explores the necessity of genuine diversity efforts in the workplace, pushing for deeper connections rather than superficial inclusivity.

In this discussion, Talia Wolf, founder and CEO of GetUplift, shares her insights on the frequent pitfalls of B2B websites based on an analysis of over 100 sites. She highlights how many companies overly focus on features rather than emotional engagement, hampering conversion rates. Talia explains the concept of emotional targeting and the importance of understanding customer needs. She also identifies common design mistakes and emphasizes the need for compelling copy before diving into aesthetics, urging stakeholders to prioritize effective messaging and user experience.

Megan Lueders, CMO at Sonatype, Ido Mart, CMO at ManyChat, and Kimberly Storin, CMO at Zayo, share insights from their diverse backgrounds in managing marketing for tech companies. They discuss the transformative challenges CMOs face today, emphasizing the shift from traditional demand generation to brand-led growth. The importance of emotional engagement and storytelling in B2B marketing is highlighted, alongside strategies for aligning effectively with other C-suite executives. They also unpack how to prove marketing's worth in an efficiency-driven era.