The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Jamil Smith chats with Erin Thompson, America's first professor of art crime and author of "Smashing Statues." They dive into the controversial history of America's monuments, discussing why we honor figures with troubling legacies. Erin highlights the societal impacts of these statues and the debates surrounding their removal, linking them to contemporary issues like racial equity and national identity. The conversation also covers innovative ideas for transforming these symbols into community-centered art, encouraging a reevaluation of how we commemorate our past.

Cornel West, a prominent author and professor at Union Theological Seminary, dives deep into the roots of American pragmatism. He discusses how this philosophical approach connects knowledge to action, emphasizing its role in fostering democracy and addressing social justice. West intertwines his insights with influences like blues music and his own Christian beliefs. The conversation explores the importance of community engagement, contrasting views on democracy, and the significance of hope in navigating the complexities of human nature.

Jessie Singer, author of "There Are No Accidents," challenges our perception of accidents as random events. She discusses the systemic vulnerabilities behind issues like drug overdoses and traffic fatalities, emphasizing how marginalized communities are disproportionately affected. The conversation explores the Swiss cheese model of safety, advocating for accountability from governments and corporations. Jessie also highlights innovative solutions for traffic safety and the barriers to naloxone distribution in the fight against addiction, calling for empathy and transformative societal change.

In a thought-provoking discussion, Francis Fukuyama, a renowned political scientist and author, explores the contemporary challenges of liberalism, drawing from his new book, Liberalism and Its Discontents. He reflects on the current ideological landscape and critiques the redistributive politics of figures like Bernie Sanders. Fukuyama also delves into the tensions of managing diversity within liberal societies and how neoliberalism can undermine democratic ideals. His insights on the impact of technology and misinformation raise important questions about the future viability of liberal democracy.

Anita Hill, a law professor at Brandeis University and a pivotal figure in the fight against sexual harassment, shares her remarkable journey from the 1991 Clarence Thomas hearings to her current advocacy. She discusses the profound impact of her testimony on society’s understanding of gender violence and reflects on the evolving concept of 'getting even.' Hill also critiques the Supreme Court nomination process for its lack of diversity and highlights the emotional toll on witnesses. Her insights into systemic discrimination and ongoing struggles inspire a continued fight for justice.

In this engaging discussion, Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò, a professor of philosophy at Georgetown University and author of Elite Capture, dives deep into the co-option of identity politics by the wealthy and powerful. He examines how this phenomenon drains grassroots movements of genuine progress, while 'woke capitalism' often serves as a superficial fix. The conversation critiques the tension between corporate interests and progressive goals, emphasizing the need for a new approach that truly redistributes power and resources to marginalized communities.

Eyal Press, an author and journalist known for his work on essential yet overlooked jobs, joins the discussion on the moral complexities of 'dirty work.' They delve into examples like drone pilots and meatpackers, shedding light on how these roles reveal societal inequalities related to class, race, and gender. The conversation explores the psychological toll on workers who face ethical dilemmas in oppressive environments, as well as the societal detachment from the consequences of this labor. Press emphasizes the importance of recognizing and valuing all forms of work.

Christine Emba, author of "Rethinking Sex" and Washington Post columnist, dives into the complexities of modern sexual culture. She argues many Americans are left unsatisfied and unsure of what they want. Emba challenges the limitations of consent, advocating for a new sexual ethic that emphasizes emotional connection. The conversation also explores the decline of sexual activity among youth and the impact of dating apps. Emba's reflections on the balance of individual freedom and societal responsibility raise important questions about the future of intimacy.

In a thought-provoking conversation, Kimaren ole Riamit, a Maasai leader from Kenya, emphasizes the crucial role of Indigenous knowledge in conservation efforts. He shares personal stories that illuminate the deep connection between the Maasai people and nature, showcasing sustainable practices that have supported their way of life. The dialogue also critiques the historical sidelining of Indigenous voices in global conservation strategies, advocating for equitable partnerships that honor their rights and expertise in combating climate change.

Lyndsey Stonebridge, a professor of humanities and human rights at the University of Birmingham, dives into the insightful worlds of Hannah Arendt, especially her thoughts on loneliness and totalitarianism. They explore how isolation can make societies more susceptible to authoritarianism. Stonebridge highlights the 'banality of evil,' revealing how everyday actions can normalize harmful behavior. The conversation also touches on the impact of modern consumer culture on moral responsibility and the significance of collective action in fostering human connection.