RevOps FM

Is the future of SaaS growth product-led or sales-led? What if it's both? Zapier uses PLG to create an ecosystem of users and product signals which then drives their sales-led outreach. Coordinating these motions in parallel takes technical sophistication, great communication, and tight process. Fortunately, they have a unified RevOps team that keeps everyone on the same page. This week we chat with Lindsay Rothlisberger, Director of RevOps at Zapier, about how her team helps the magic happen. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Lindsay Rothlisberger is a dedicated Revenue Operations Leader with a background enriched in marketing. She thrives on transforming ideas into strategies that improve the customer experience and business metrics. She currently serves as Director of Revenue Operations at Zapier, and has previously held marketing positions at UNiDAYS, Oracle, and Blackboard. https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-rothlisberger/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:59] - The RevOps scope at Zapier [02:52] - Blending PLG and Sales-Led Funnels [15:11] - How RevOps helps coordinate different GTM motions[22:19] - Org and reporting structure [28:49] - Planning and prioritization[34:05] - Tech stack and governance[41:07] - Tracking signals and CRM architectureThanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners. This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day. Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast. MOps-Apalooza 2024 Resource LinksHow Zapier created a centralized revenue operations team Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

B2B buying signals are generating a lot of buzz right now—and for good reason.In today's challenging selling environment, conversion rates are dipping, and identifying active buyers has become more critical than ever. Signal vendors offer a promising solution, but the questions remain: Are these signals truly transformative? How can they enhance your go-to-market strategy? And what the heck is a "signal" anyhow?In this episode, Chris Walker joins me to demystify the concept of buying signals. With his characteristic clarity and candor, Chris sheds light on why he's emphasizing signals as a key driver for efficient growth.Regular listeners will know Chris as a significant influence on my thinking. I’ve learned a lot from him over the years, making it a true pleasure to finally have him on the show.Tune in as we cut through the noise and delve into the real impact of B2B buying signals.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Chris Walker is a serial entrepreneur and go-to-market thought leader. In 2019 he founded Refine Labs, the leading B2B Digital Marketing and Demand Generation agency, growing it to an 8-figure revenue business with a dominating digital presence in less than 3 years. In 2024 he launched Passetto, a tech-enabled GTM Strategy Consultancy that helps B2B executives identify and execute against their highest priority growth levers with confidence and clarity. Chris is host of B2B Revenue Vitals (formerly State of Demand Gen), one of the top marketing and GTM podcasts. https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswalker171/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:34] - Shifting focus to signals[08:03] - What is a signal?[11:59] - The signal data layer[18:12] - Connection between demand creation and signals[21:13] - Landscape of signal tools[24:39] - Identifying high-converting signals[36:25] - Inbound vs. outbound [40:34] - How RevOps can level upThanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners. This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day. Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast. MOps-Apalooza 2024 Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter Thanks to our friends at Hatch for producing this episode. Get unlimited podcast editing at www.hatch.fm

I have a fascination with how SaaS products actually get made—especially those that become institutions in the software landscape. As users, we become deeply familiar with these products, the nitty-gritty of how they work, and what it's like to live inside them. People base entire careers on these platforms. What we usually DON'T see is the backstory: How do these great products get designed? What were the decisions and trade-offs along the way? How do they catch on?How do you create lovable features? What causes great products to often stagnate? Today's guest is a legendary product leader and innovator. As the first employee of Marketo, Glen Lipka led the product team during a critical early phase, building many of its still most-beloved features.This episode is packed with Marketo lore, product design insights, and lessons about how to build a product that users love. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Glen Lipka is a 25+ year veteran of product innovation and design. As Chief Design Officer and first employee at Marketo, he built the flagship product. He has held numerous other product leadership roles and is currently VP of Product Design for Crowdstrike. https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenlipka/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:14] - Glen’s start at Marketo[02:56] - Marketo’s first features[13:36] - Product differentiation[20:37] - Developing the concept of marketing automation[26:00] - Why great products start to suck[40:46] - Hubspot as a product company[44:19] - AIResource LinksGlen's series of retrospective articles on building MarketoGlen's personal blog Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

What does it take to scale a company from $100M to over $1B in ARR? Cody Guymon has taken a journey that most revenue operators could only dream of—helping Qualtrics scale to an $8B acquisition and then a $27B IPO. Now he's back at an earlier stage company, hoping to repeat the trip all over again. We chat through his lessons learned, his forecasting methodology, and how he architected a unified RevOps function with the CEO before joining Workato.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Cody Guymon is a strategic sales and operations leader, leading teams at Vivint, Qualtrics, and now Workato. He helped scale Qualtrics from a $1B unicorn to an $8B SAP acquisition and then through an IPO at a $20B+ valuation. Today he serves as the COO of GTM Operations at Workato. https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyguymon/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:07] - What is GTM operations?[03:50] - Working 1-1 with reps in the field[04:46] - Creating a truly unified GTM ops function[16:56] - Go-to-market analytics[19:16] - Pros and cons of unification [23:29] - Project planning and prioritization[30:17] - Forecasting and thinking long-term[39:24] - Experience at Qualtrics and SAP[47:03] - Cody’s daily routinesThanks to Our SponsorBig thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going. UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect. So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners. Try UserGems Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

There's a set of skills we rely on everyday at work, often without realizing it: how we think about problems, make decisions, market our ideas, manage up, give feedback...they're all part of the operating system of how we interface with the business world.I’m fascinated by these things both because they have a massive impact on our effectiveness and because they often go unexamined. They’re just part of how we operate. But what if our ways of working are holding us back? What if we could optimize them and radically improve our performance? Today's guest is a serial entrepreneur, marketer, and operator. These days she focuses on exploring and writing about these "deceivingly basic" topics in one of my favourite newsletters, which reaches more than 250,000 people. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Wes Kao is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, and advisor who writes at newsletter.weskao.com. She is co-founder of Maven, an edtech company that raised $25M from First Round and Andreessen Horowitz. Previously, she co-founded the altMBA with bestselling author Seth Godin.https://www.linkedin.com/in/weskao/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:28] - Why write about “deceivingly basic” topics [06:56] - Rigorous thinking[10:43] - Building a culture of rigorous thinking [21:10] - Bottom line up front[26:39] - Relationship with your manager[37:23] - Change management[41:32] - Empathy[44:09] - Being a LinkedIn creatorThanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners. This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day. Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast. MOps-Apalooza 2024 Resource LinksWes Kao's Newsletter Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Running business systems at enterprise scale has some unique challenges—especially when that enterprise is Hubspot. Today we're fortunate to chat with Rich Archbold, whose team supports all GTM systems and automation at Hubspot, including Hubspot's own Hubspot implementation. This is a truly fascinating peek behind the scenes at one of the most iconic tech companies. Rich also shares generously from his deep experience, providing insights into how to foster a culture of agility, customer-centricity, and impact within a business systems team. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Rich Archbold is VP of Engineering for GTM Systems at Hubspot. He is passionate about building and scaling high-performing, highly engaged teams that build and operate world-class, mission-critical technology products and services. Prior to Hubspot, he held business systems and engineering leadership roles at Intercom, Facebook, and Amazon. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardarchbold/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - Transitioning from engineering to business systems[10:42] - GTM systems team structure at Hubspot[15:17] - Centralized vs. decentralized systems ownership[20:51] - Hubspot’s tech stack[23:02] - Can Hubspot work at enterprise scale?[25:11] - Hubspot Prospecting Workspace[31:16] - Use of Workato[33:24] - Lead processing systems[36:23] - Data quality[46:22] - PrioritizationThanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners. This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day. Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast. MOps-Apalooza 2024 Resource Links6 things I learned the hard way leading business systems Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

I'm a really big believer in the idea of a unified RevOps function supporting all the go-to-market teams. But I'll be honest, sometimes it's a little discouraging when I look at how RevOps is done in practice, because outside of a few examples, I usually see essentially a sales ops function with a new name.So I wanted to find people who are actually leading a unified RevOps team in the real world and to understand how they're doing it and how it's working out for them. Today's guest is leading a very mature RevOps function at Electric and has a ton of practical insight to share. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Julia Kim is VP of Revenue Operations for Electric and an Adjunct Instructor at Columbia University. She has over 10 years experience as an operations executive and has launched award-winning consumer and SaaS products mentioned in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Forrester, and TechCrunch.Before Electric, she led GTM operations for 4 profitable acquisitions. In addition to her RevOps experience, she has a technical background with a recent focus in artificial intelligence and predictive data modelling. https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliajuleskim/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:50] - Definition of Revenue Operations[03:40] - RevOps at different stages of maturity[09:09] - Deep dive on Julia’s team structure[14:00] - Collaboration within the RevOps team[21:52] - Addressing concerns about unifying the ops functions[28:07] - Identifying biggest opportunities for impact[37:19] - Relationship with data team [40:11] - Change management and enablement[47:37] - RevOps and AI[55:11] - What’s a current challenge? Thanks to Our SponsorBig thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going. UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect. So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners. Try UserGems Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Every company pays lip service to privacy. But few seem to really value it in practice.In marketing and sales, we rely on personal and behavioural data for so many commonplace tactics, and this reliance is only increasing. It's a kind of arms race. Even if you wanted to, it feels like you can't afford to give up the perceived advantages of using personal data.And even as we continually hear about the "death" of this or that type of tracking, the reality is that hundreds of billions of advertising revenue are on the line. The incentives to keep collecting and commodifying our data are huge. I wanted to dig deeper into the current state of privacy in marketing today, and I could think of no better person to reach out to than Stephane Hamel. He is a legendary practitioner and thought leader in the digital analytics space and one of the foremost advocates for privacy and ethics in marketing.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Stephane Hamel is a digital analytics and marketing expert with over 35 years experience. He has spoken at over 150 industry events and was named one of the Most Influential Industry Contributors by the Digital Analytics Association. As an educator, he’s taught thousands of students at institutions including UBC, SimpliLearn, ULaval, Harvard, YorkU, and others. In recent years, he’s focused his attention on the ethical use of data in a marketing contexthttps://www.linkedin.com/in/shamel/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:49] - Current state of privacy in marketing[03:30] - Vision of a truly privacy-oriented company[08:20] - How a 100% consent-based model would work[10:59] - Is privacy-respecting marketing better marketing?[13:26] - Analogy of seatbelts[17:32] - Getting people to care about privacy [20:50] - Advertising in a privacy-first world[24:21] - Conflict between privacy and commercial interests [31:41] - Google and the “death” of third-party cookies[36:47] - AI literacy [41:44] - Career impact of being privacy-orientedLearn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Refine Labs has had a seismic impact on B2B marketing. Whether you agree with their philosophy or not, it's hard to deny its influence. They've set the agenda, defined the terms of the debate, and challenged many aspects of the status quo. Former CEO Chris Walker catapulted the agency to prominence with his LinkedIn thought leadership. But behind the scenes, there's also been an intricate operational odyssey to scale Refine Labs from scratch to nearly 100 employees. Today's guest, Megan Bowen, partnered with Chris from the beginning as COO before taking over as CEO in January of 2024. In this no-holds-barred episode, she shares an operational perspective on building Refine Labs, with candid stories and insights about scaling a service-based business, riding the hyper-growth rollercoaster, and weathering economic storms. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Over her 20+ year career, Megan Bowen has built and scaled go-to-market teams at eChalk, ZocDoc, Grubhub/Seamless (IPO: 2014), ManagedbyQ (WeWork Acquisition: 2019) and Platterz. In 2020, she teamed up with the Founder of Refine Labs to change the way B2B companies go-to-market.Today, she is the CEO of Refine Labs, A B2B Demand Generation Agency.https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganwhitebowen/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:32] - Megan’s background[07:06] - Building Refine Labs[14:15] - Stepping into the CEO role [16:34] - Prioritizing the health of your team [21:56] - Segmenting clients and service levels[23:54] - Packaging, pricing, and service design[25:46] - Transparency in the sales process[27:43] - Achieving consistent service quality when scaling the team [31:21] - Onboarding process [31:59] - Balancing supply and demand in agency staffing[35:23] - Transparency around layoffs[37:12] - Evolution of Refine Labs methodology[40:36] - Partnership with AspireshipResource LinksRefine Labs | Leading B2B Demand Generation AgencyRefine Labs x Aspireship - Get subsidized access to the Refine Labs IP library with Aspireship. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

I think marketing is one of the toughest functions to lead successfully.Your job is part art, part science. You need to hire, coach, and retain talent with a huge range of skillsets that you may even not be master of yourself—from the creative to the analytical to the technical.And then your job is to simultaneously create demand, capture demand, help sales convert that demand, help customer success retain and expand that demand...your job is never done.Today we chat with one of my favourite marketing leaders, Thao Ngo. We'll explore her unconventional marketing strategy and also her leadership playbook—how she grows her team and creates an environment where people do their best work. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Thao Ngo is a senior B2B marketing leader with 20+ years of experience in building world-class teams, generating sales-ready leads, and creating brand awareness for tech companies of various sizes. She's led marketing teams at Elastic Path, Vision Critical, and SensorUp, and is currently SVP of Marketing at Uptempo. https://www.linkedin.com/in/thaongo/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:09] - What makes a great marketer?[02:40] - Evolution of marketing skills[04:48] - How to use data[06:25] - Marketing leadership and operating rhythms[09:30] - Trust and psychological safety[12:49] - Coaching and feedback [24:32] - First hires on a marketing team[25:43] - Division of labour between CMO and VP[28:05] - What keeps Thao up at night[29:47] - The marketing planning process[36:24] - Influencer / community marketing programs[47:13] - A day in the life of ThaoResource LinksLive MOps Huddles Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter