Prioritization is probably the biggest challenge for ops teams. Say yes to everything—you pretty quickly become a service department. Set your own priorities without input from the business—you can quickly find yourself irrelevant, even out of a job.The best model that I've seen for tackling this problem is what we could call the product management approach to managing MarTech. This is where you effectively treat your stack as an internal product and ops as a product management team working on delivering features for internal customers. Today's guest has practiced this approach at enterprise scale, with an ops team dozens strong. Josh Hill shares his insights and lessons learned, as well as his journey as one of the earliest and well-recognized experts in the Marketo community. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Josh Hill is a GTM operations and systems executive who builds revenue accelerating GTM platforms, global teams, and processes in partnership with Product, Sales, and Marketing. He has a strong track record of turning business strategies into live enterprise capabilities and impactful customer experiences. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jhill2/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:37] - Josh’s professional journey[04:19] - Development of automation pro as a professional identity[06:48] - Scope and scale of the teams Josh led[08:54] - Definition of a product management approach to martech[15:45] - Should marketing ops be oriented around business impact? [21:03] - Reasons why ops teams need to say “no” sometimes[27:38] - Solving for the internal vs. external customer [30:39] - Asking tough questions about adoption and ROI [33:53] - Building your roadmap [35:53] - Communicating your roadmap internally[40:10] - Cultivating resolve around prioritization and triaging requests[42:43] - How to transition to a product management approach Resource Links Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Every marketing team  wants attribution. But weirdly, it's often not that satisfying when they actually get it. I led many multi-touch attribution projects as a consultant, and we got really good at implementing tools, creating taxonomies, and making sure that data was clean.But I found that when you actually showed these reports to a C-level executive, it was usually kind of underwhelming. The data didn't always pass the common sense test. Today's guest thinks there's a better way — Marketing Mix Modelling. It's basically the application of mathematical techniques to model relationships between different variables. However, technology now enables it to happen faster and more cost-effectively than ever before. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mark Stouse is CEO of ProofAnalytics.AI. With over 26 years of experience in marketing communications and strategy, he has a passion for transforming GTM performance with data-driven insights and agile decision making. Prior to founding Proof, Mark was CMO at Honeywell Aerospace, CCO at BMC Software, and a marketing leader at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstouse/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:15] - Clarifying the acronym “MMM”[02:39] - Mark’s background and how he founded Proof Analytics [07:57] - Limitations of multi-touch attribution (“MTA”)[14:16] - How MMM avoids the shortcomings of MTA[16:42] - The Fischer Price definition of MMM[19:56] - Demand vs. brand investments and their impact[24:09] - A/B vs. multivariate regression[25:21] - MMM is aggregate modelling, no reliance on PII[27:12] - Simple explanation of multi-variate regression[30:29] - Incorporating third-party data sources[31:48] - Historical ROI vs. forecasted ROI[32:52] - Is MMM just for enterprise?[34:51] - Marketing as a non-linear multiplier[38:02] - Getting started with MMM[41:18] - Updating models to include new data sources[42:07] - Competition in the marketing analytics space[44:41] - B2C marketing is more advanced in usage of multi-variate regressionResource LinksProof Analytics - Official SiteEconometrics // Lecture 1: Introduction Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

For most of us in B2B, the marketing automation platform - aka "MAP" - is the anchoring piece of technology in the martech stack.When I was first buying a MAP, there were way more options than today, but generally they all bundled a few core features together — sending emails, segmenting audiences, and creating workflows.But is there a reason why you need to do your lifecycle processing in the same tool that you send emails with? What does a Martech stack look like where these roles are distributed differently?Today's guest has answered that question and built an elegant and high-performing composable stack.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Niels Fogt is Sr. Director, Automation Solutions at tray.io. He's led and participated in a wide variety of initiatives within growth and marketing. Strong technical acumen. UX roots.https://www.linkedin.com/in/uxstrategist/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[02:31] - Niels’ journey as a martech architect [06:06] - Challenges with the traditional martech stack[09:13] - Developer mindsets and service-oriented architecture[12:10] - Applying automation capabilities across the organization[14:09] - Components of Tray’s martech stack[15:02] - The role of a customer journey tool[16:07] - Centralized lead processing in Tray[17:23] - Event collection[19:09] - Streaming events into automation tool vs. data warehouse [22:21] - Native vs. custom integrations[29:15] - Benefits of having a workflow layer in Tray vs. in a MAP[32:02] - Economics of using an iPaaS as a workflow layer[34:50] - Composable martech stacks [39:03] - Skillsets needed to operate a composable stack[40:01] - Future capabilities[41:25] - Relationship to business stakeholdersResource LinksWhy low code is the future of lead management (and RevOps)Introduction to the lead processing pipeline on Tray.ioOpen source RevOps: Taking a closer look at the first few steps of the lead processing pipeline Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Kyle Coleman is one of the most prominent revenue leaders on LinkedIn and a long-time champion of sales development. So there was no one better to chat with about the future of the SDR function, which some claim is facing imminent demise... Spoiler alert: Kyle doesn't share that view. But he DOES think that it needs to change. We look at how sales development will evolve in 2024 and beyond, discuss his SDR to 2-time-CMO journey, and examine how AI will impact sellers and increase productivity.Perhaps most importantly, we also go deep into the mindsets, routines, and strategies Kyle has used to enable his professional growth and productivity. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Kyle Coleman is a sales and Marketing leader with a passion for people development, identifying and solving problems, creating and optimizing processes, and unifying departments across the revenue org. He's currently the CMO at Copy.ai and was previously CMO at Clari. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyletcoleman/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:39] - Role of SDRs in B2B GTM[04:47] - Strategic partnership between SDRs and AEs[07:43] - How does a junior SDR offer value to an executive? [11:20] - Qualities and skills of a good SDR[14:05] - Providing space for SDR autonomy[16:28] - Replacing SDRs with AI?[19:25] - Kyle’s mindset for professional success[24:21] - Importance of documentation[26:08] - Figuring out what to say “no” to[28:52] - Keeping calm in the face of big targets[31:43] - Daily routines and prioritization[35:32] - Benefits of being a LinkedIn creator[39:38] - Core job of a marketing leader[41:35] - Why Kyle joined Copy.ai[43:19] - Core capabilities of the platform[49:29] - Kyle’s predictions on the future of AI in GTMThanks to Our SponsorBig thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going. UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect. So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners. Try UserGems Resource LinksThe only AI platform purpose-built for outcomes - Copy.ai official website Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

There comes a time in every marketing ops professional's life when they wonder if the grind of an in-house job is worth it after all. Whether it's politics, overwork, lack of resources, lack of respect, a toxic boss, or one of a million other things...it might make you think, "maybe I'd be happier as a consultant."But is the grass actually greener? What does it take to get started in consulting? Are you better off at an agency or as an independent? How do you find clients? To answer these questions (and many more), I'm joined by Lauren Aquilino and Sydney Mulligan. With over 20 years of consulting experience between us, we have a no-holds-barred discussion on the pros and cons and how to succeed. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's GuestsLauren and Sydney are co-founders of EMMIE Collective - a for-hire collective of the most sought-after independent consultants and boutique firms in the marketing ops and ops adjacent space - and co-hosts of the Pretty Funny Business podcast. https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenaquilino/https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydneymulligan/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:08] - Origin story of EMMIE Collective [10:45] - Has the reality of the agency model met their expectations? [12:48] - Becoming an independent consultant vs. joining an agency[15:05] - The experience of transitioning from in-house to consultant[17:20] - In-house career growth limitations for technical marketing ops[18:34] - Challenges of moving from an IC to a manager[21:44] - Finding clients and financial planning as a consultant[24:16] - Layoffs pushing people into consulting[26:42] - Commercial arrangements - hourly vs. project vs. retainer[28:50] - Challenges scoping fixed bid projects[30:23] - Fractional consulting models[32:38] - How to ensure quality / consistency with a team of independents[36:57] - Client management skills and dealing with challenging clients[41:45] - The tattoo booth at MOps-ApaloozaResource LinksEMMIE Collective Official SitePretty Funny Business: The Podcast Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

B2B communities are everywhere these days. It's easy to forget that 10 years ago, it wasn't nearly so easy to connect with peers, ask for unfiltered recommendations, celebrate wins, and commiserate about dumpster fires.Mike Rizzo has made community his career - both in developing B2B customer communities and in building the top community of practice for marketing operations. In this episode, we examine how B2B companies can leverage community as part of their GTM strategy, what makes a community tick, and the inside scoop on what it took to host MOps-Apalooza. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mike Rizzo is a career marketing operations professional passionate about community. In 2017 he also founded the growing community of MO Pros - a place where thousands of Marketing Operations Professionals connect, collaborate and help elevate the practice of Marketing Ops. He is also the co-host of the podcast called Ops Cast.https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedrizzo/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:42] - Why start a MOPS community? [05:17] - Community is like a product[08:40] - Each community is a vibe[10:40] - Maturity of marketing ops vs. sales ops[16:37] - Lack of strategic MOPS leadership roles in the marketplace[19:13] - MOPS pros should be like product managers[21:08] - Community-led as a GTM motion[25:40] - Balancing community and economic concerns[33:22] - MOps-Apalooza[39:59] - What motivated Mike to put on the event?[42:26] - The future of marketing operationsResource Links#1 Marketing Ops Community & Private Network | MO Pros - Official site for the MO Pros communityOps Cast - The Ops Cast podcastMOps-Apalooza 2024 - Marketing Ops - Website for MOps-Apalooza 2024 Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Every B2B company has a funnel tracking process. And quite often, that process is seriously limited or broken.Leads get lost, data is inaccurate, and businesses struggle to produce insights and accurate reporting.I've seen this first hand, and so has this week's guest - Charlie Saunders. We've both spent years as consultants fixing broken funnels. In this episode, we talk about the many reasons funnel tracking goes wrong and dive deep into the architecture of the scalable solution Charlie's team has developed. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Charlie Saunders is co-founder and the Chief Revenue & Operations Officer at CS2, where he builds Revenue Growth Architecture for growth-stage B2B tech companies that powers efficient and predictable revenue growth.https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliesaunders/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:35] - Why funnel tracking matters[05:05] - How funnel metrics and attribution interact[08:21] - Key funnel metrics[10:18] - Accuracy vs. perfection in funnel tracking[14:06] - Why we can’t rely just on a Lead Status field[19:03] - Using a Salesforce custom object for funnel tracking[20:23] - Explanation of using a lifecycle campaign to bridge leads and contacts[21:01] - Should everyone start with a custom object?[26:55] - Why a custom object doesn’t need to be that intensive to implement[29:34] - Custom object impact on sales process and UX[33:25] - Tipping point = the initiation of the sales process[34:58] - Multiple tipping point types[36:14] - Different stages in the pre-pipeline section of the funnel[39:28] - Build vs. buy when considering a custom object solution[40:38] - You need a strong foundation for any funnel tracking to work[42:56] - Deeper discussion on attribution[45:47] - Significance of the the "tipping point" touchResource LinksCS2 | B2B Marketing & Revenue Operations Consulting - Official CS2 website. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Many entrepreneurs dream of creating categories. But few have actually done it - much less built a category worth billions of dollars. Mark Organ is one of those rare few. As founding CEO of Eloqua, he pioneered marketing automation in the early 2000s, paving the way for other players and selling to Oracle for nearly $900 million. Mark and I chat through how he co-founded Eloqua, the pivots and experiments needed to achieve product-market fit, and how category creators may be wired a bit differently. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mark Organ is the founding CEO of Eloqua (the first successful marketing automation platform) and Influitive. His greatest professional passions include creating new billion-dollar categories in technology and developing new leaders. Today he helps CEOs achieve their full potential in their businesses and their lives as the CEO of Categorynauts.https://www.linkedin.com/in/markorgan/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:05] - Founding Eloqua and marketing automation[07:47] - Origin of the lead generation playbook[10:39] - Getting to product-market fit[16:03] - Genesis of lead scoring[19:08] - Toolkit software vs. opinionated software[24:25] - Pivots and brushes with death are the norm[27:09] - When is it right to build a category?[30:14] - Building a category around an under-served hero[33:51] - Creating a category for the second time[36:42] - Challenges with churn at Influitive[41:05] - Alternatives to VC funding in SaaSResource LinksCategorynauts - Categorynauts is the leading global community of category creating leaders, helping CEOs looking to discover, develop and dominate their category. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Historically, Product-led Growth (PLG) companies have been underserved. Marketing automation platforms, growth playbooks, reporting frameworks, and “best practices” have been largely designed around the needs of their sales-led cousins. But PLG has had a renaissance in the past few years, and all that's changed. PLG now has its own communities, methodologies, frameworks, and tools. Today's guest, Dave Rigotti, has quickly become one of the godfathers of PLG as a thought leader and co-founder of Inflection.io. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Dave Rigotti is an entrepreneur and marketing leader dedicated to furthering the B2B marketing industry. Dave was VP of Marketing at Bizible (acquired by Marketo), Director of ABM at Adobe, and now is co-founder and marketing leader at Inflection.io.https://www.linkedin.com/in/daverigotti/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:39] - What is PLG? [04:00] - Why PLG has gotten so popular recently[05:50] - Reasons Dave focused his new company on PLG[07:26] - Why sales-led software doesn’t scale for PLG [07:40] - Playbooks of top PLG companies[14:34] - Inflection’s data structure[19:12] - Opportunities and challenges of PLG ops[22:46] - Funnels, attribution, and PLG[25:31] - Scoring in PLG[26:47] - Top-down vs. bottom-up PLG motions[29:34] - Dave’s journey from startup to enterprise to startup[33:17] - Sustaining product agility as a startup[35:01] - How it feels to see Bizible not evolve after acquisition[36:06] - How to break the cycle of product stagnation as you scaleResource LinksInflection.io - Product-Led Growth Software - Official website for Inflection.io Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Martech continues to expand and shift at breakneck speed. Hot startups from five years ago have become legacy incumbents. Some platforms consolidate into monolithic suites while other categories break apart into specialized point solutions. AI looms over everything, with potential to disrupt virtually every established paradigm. Who better to guide us through this landscape than Phil Gamache, one of the humans behind the awesome Humans of Martech podcast? Join us for a deep dive into the future of Martech and a behind-the-scenes glimpse at how Phil and Jon produce their show using the latest AI tools. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Phil Gamache is on a mission to future-proof the humans behind the tech and help them have successful and happy careers in marketing. During the day, he runs all things Growth at Pelago and during the weekends you can find him behind the mic on humansofmartech.com. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gamacp/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:40] - Origin of the Humans of Martech Podcast[03:42] - Importance of soft skills in becoming a martech leader[04:33] - Growing an audience for the show[08:00] - Importance of having a specific approach for the show. Enjoying the process of learning through being a host.[11:00] - Use of AI for creating podcast imagery and transcription[17:32] - What do we consider AI-generated imagery to be? [20:30] - Point of view on martech and being platform agnostic[25:21] - Phil’s ideal stack[26:47] - Benefits of a composable CDP architecture[30:17] - Definition of composability in martech[34:27] - Challenges of troubleshooting a composable stack[38:19] - The relative recency of the cloud-first warehouse and the transition to warehouse native tech[40:22] - How much does the tech matter, in the big picture of business? [42:19] - Phil’s take on the role of AI a year from now[44:20] - Propensity modelling[49:03] - Finding balance in lifeResource LinksHumans of Martech – Future-proofing the humans behind the tech - The Humans of Martech website. Click on "episodes" to browse the huge back catalogue by topic. Midjourney - Image generator Phil uses to create the AI artwork for the showInsightface.ai - App Phil uses to incorporate photos into AI-generated photo. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter