Some of my Best Work with Eric Hoke

Thank you for engaging with me over the last 31 episodes of this podcast, and thank you to all of my guests. I look forward to seeing you on the podcast in March.My big focus this winter: Hiring a Director of Operations for I Help Pastors Get Jobs. Skills required: Customer Success. Sales. Career Services. Occasional Pastoral Counseling.This remote position is flexible and requires 5-10 hours of work per week. Commission-based. Perfect for the Entrepreneur-Curious person who wants to learn the ins and outs of the professional coaching space. You must be organized, good with pastors (and their spouses), and capable of managing relationships with ministers who are simultaneously in vocational crisis and confused about LinkedIn settings.I provide training and mentorship, and you receive 75% of all new business you bring in. This is a perfect turnkey operation for someone who wants to build something without stressing about the backend work. If you know someone who might be a good fit, please send them my way, and I’ll pay you $500 after a successful 90-day onboarding period. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysThe Institutional Church Model Is Breaking Down and That’s a Holy Opportunity - Mid-20th-century church structures are collapsing under their own weight: aging congregations, shrinking budgets, exhausted clergy, and dwindling attendance. However, rather than lamenting this shift, it presents a spiritual opportunity to rediscover authentic ministry beyond denominational constraints. ‘Cage-Free Ministry’ Means Redefining Both Calling and Compensation - Instead of full-time, part-time, or quarter-time positions that still demand total availability, she models task-based contracts and entrepreneurial ministry. Ministers should develop a clear “business model for calling,” knowing who they serve, what transformation they offer, and how that sustains them financially. Substack Seminary, she’s launching, helps pastors map this out across four stages: Get Unstuck, Build the Structure, Bring Church to People, and Collaborate through Technology.The Future Church Is Agile, Networked, and Collaborative — Not Hierarchical - Imagine a future where ministry resembles an ecosystem more than an institution. Clergy and lay leaders become collaborators in networks of shared projects such as podcasts, retreats, digital gatherings, neighborhood worship, and spiritual direction, rather than employees of rigid systems. You can find Cathie on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysCareer pivots require both clarity and courage: Rodney’s journey, from Marine Corps officer to Goldman Sachs executive to church leader, illustrates that career transitions are often guided by both discernment and divine disruption. When he was laid off from Goldman, he realized it was something God did for him, not to him. The courage to pause instead of rushing into another high-paying job allowed him to discover work aligned with his calling.Faith-driven decision-making brings purpose through provision: During his post-Goldman season of uncertainty, Rodney and his wife chose to rely on “daily bread faith,” trusting God to provide for them. This period strengthened their dependence on God and clarified that clarity comes through obedience, not comfort. He described this as the Lord’s process of forming character more than achieving career success.Anointing reveals your lane, and peace follows clarity: Rodney shared that once he entered ministry, he experienced a sense of spiritual anointing; the things that used to feel hard suddenly became clear and natural. He realized that operating in one’s anointing feels like effortless clarity, while stepping outside of it brings fog and friction. Culture starts before the paycheck: Rodney described how he now meets with every new church staff member over lunch to set expectations. He emphasizes that ministry is both an organism and an organization, spiritual and operational. By naming tensions early (“you’ll make more copies than you’ll preach”), he reduces the likelihood of disillusionment. Healthy culture and accountability sustain ministry impact: Rodney reframed performance management in the church as both spiritual formation and organizational clarity. He introduced a “Cultural Alignment Plan” alongside traditional performance plans to address relational or attitudinal issues. His conviction: culture is where the Holy Spirit moves—and where the enemy moves. Leaders must intentionally guard against it because one unhealthy staff member can drag down the entire mission.You can follow Rodney on Substack at Field Manual for Church Leaders. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysSame Skills, New Arena - Phil shared how his career didn’t pivot, but he translated 15 years of ministry leadership into executive coaching. The CEO Trifecta - Every senior leader battles the same three: Direction. Decisions. Distraction.The Four Phases of Change: Every transition runs the cycle: Entry → Evaluation → Discernment → Direction.Lead from Wholeness - Detach from the role, stay grounded in faith and family, and lead with empathy. You can e-mail Phil at Phil@cornerstoneco.com or visit his company’s webpage at Cornerstone Coaching. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode Takeaways:* Slow is smooth, smooth is fast — Sustainable pace and preparation produce excellence. Leaders need deliberate rhythms, not frantic motion.* Build a rule of life (or rhythm) — Anchor your spiritual, emotional, relational, and physical health with consistent routines rather than reacting to chaos.* Relational health requires intentionality — Introverted or task-oriented leaders must proactively schedule connections to avoid isolation and burnout.* Emotional awareness drives healthy leadership — Unprocessed emotions leak into relationships; reflecting on your past and attachments builds maturity.* Retreat to advance — Step away for silence and solitude. The world won’t collapse if you rest; your inner world will collapse if you don’t.Follow Greg on Substack or his website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysOvereating and Emotional Coping - Both you and Jon opened up about food as a coping mechanism for leadership stress and emotional exhaustion. Overeating has become an “acceptable vice” in ministry culture, one that masks deeper wounds like fear of rejection or unmet emotional needs. Physical Health and Leadership Credibility - Physical discipline impacts credibility and self-perception. Caring for your body is not cosmetic; it’s a reflection of stewardship.Identity Beyond the Job Title - Jon admitted that leaving pastoral ministry after 17 years triggered a crisis: “Who am I without the title?” His recovery involved rediscovering identity in lasting roles, husband, father, and child of God, rather than transient ones like “Pastor John” or “Firefighter John.”Faith Renewal After Ministry - How can faith deepen after leaving professional ministry? Without the pressure to “perform spirituality,” he began relating to God personally rather than transactionally. Action Over Indecision - For leaders stuck in “waiting on God’s will,” Jon reframed the question: stop worrying about walking in the will of God, start walking in the ways of God. When your actions align with His character, the path unfolds naturally. Connect with Jon on Facebook This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysThe worst decision is indecision. Waiting for perfect clarity is paralyzing. Sometimes you just have to take a step of faith, even without all the answers.Certainty is rare, so embrace seasons. In life and career, there’s no 100% certainty (outside of “death and taxes”), so the better posture is committing to things for a season—six months, a year—rather than forever.Faith and courage matter more than perfection. Fear and “analysis paralysis” can keep people stuck, but he encouraged listeners to take action, even if it doesn’t look exactly as imagined, trusting God to guide them along the way.Community and confirmation guide calling. Randy described how God often confirmed major decisions through people around him, especially his wife, underscoring the importance of relationships and wise counsel in career and life pivots.Identity isn’t tied to one role: Across military, ministry, and corporate pivots, Randy’s story highlighted that identity is rooted deeper than a job title, and that reinvention requires resilience and humility, not certainty.You can find Randy on LinkedIn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! 99 Cent Kindle ends today 10/2/25!Episode TakeawaysFrom Pastor to CCO – Kelly went from leading an international church in Paris to becoming Chief Communications Officer at a global investment firm.Leadership Lessons – Empowering young leaders early matters, and how “train and release” creates resilient talent.Transferable Skills – Surprising ways ministry honed her corporate edge: communication agility, confidence in ambiguity, and winning over diverse audiences.Resilience in Change – Navigating COVID, cross-cultural ministry, relocation, marriage, and parenthood while still growing in her career.Workplace Wisdom – Why integrity, owning mistakes, and simply doing what you say set you apart in high-stakes environments.Connect with Kelly at KellyDelp.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! For this week only, Kindle is only $0.99!Episode TakeawaysGod can use even “mind-numbing office jobs” to build skills and character for future callings.Passion alone isn’t enough. Movements and nonprofits need people with real skills and aligned values.Leadership transitions can make or break mission-driven organizations; the wrong hire can tank the mission.Job hopping under 2 years raises red flags; staying 3–5 years builds credibility and trust.Remote, part-time, high-paying jobs are rare; flexibility is usually earned after proving value in person.Healthy organizations develop leaders internally, treat staff well, and reduce turnover by fostering a strong culture.Advanced degrees don’t always guarantee better prospects; experience and mentorship often yield more significant benefits.You can connect with Titus on LinkedIn or his Substack This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! Order your copy (Kindle, Hardcover & Paperback) today. Episode TakeawaysCo-Vocational Calling - Dave serves as both an executive pastor and a fractional HR/operations leader for a construction company. He views this dual calling not as leaving ministry but as expanding it; living in obedience meant offering his skills to businesses as well as churches.Skills Translation & Lifelong Learning - Dave discovered his marketable strengths by paying attention to what people repeatedly came to him for (systems, HR, operations). Pursued certifications (IT, SHRM-CP, OSHA) and used early mornings (5–8 a.m.) to reskill. Learned that translating church skills requires humility, mentors, and conversations with business leaders, not just Google or AI searches.Navigating the Transition - Experienced culture shock moving from ministry to business (e.g., workplace language, different HR standards). Noted that church resumes and secular resumes differ dramatically, and auto-generated Indeed/LinkedIn resumes often fail to represent candidates well.Systems, Time, and Family Priorities - Lives by his calendar as both planner and journal, doing time audits to stay accountable. Emphasizes systems (e.g., Notion, automations) as the foundation for sustainable work, saying: “I exist to make vision sustainable.”Advice for Aspiring Co-Vocational Leaders - Try something small, don’t overthink it Take targeted risks, learn from failures, and keep iterating. Don’t underestimate the value of small businesses and nonprofits, they often need the skills pastors already have.You can learn more about David’s Business at Brock Office Solutions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com