Some of my Best Work with Eric Hoke

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world and career, pick up a copy today. Releases 9/1/25!Episode Takeaways:Ministry Outside the Mold - Andre shares how traditional church roles didn’t fit his entrepreneurial spirit, leading him to create Barbecue Church—a digital, grassroots ministry reaching thousands through smoked meats and the gospel.The Hidden Cost of Church Staff Roles - He reflects on the emotional and financial toll of leaving a church, revealing how many pastors are left without community, paycheck, or purpose when a role ends.Reaching Men with Real Talk and Real BBQ - Andre's work through the 225 Man initiative and Barbecue Church reframes men’s ministry.Authenticity over Assimilation - He unpacks the challenge of being a Black pastor in predominantly white church contexts, calling out how churches often want the “image” of diversity without embracing diverse voices.Your Calling Doesn’t Fit in a Box - Andre's journey through multiple careers, from youth pastor to parking logistics to diamond sales, illustrates that calling is layered, and faithfulness doesn’t always look like a 9-to-5 job in a church office.You can learn more about Andre’s Ministry at BBQ Church. Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe

Are you an Incongruent Professional? Take my Free Assessment and find out where you are out of whack.Episode Takeaways:Running a Small Business Is More Than Doing the Craft - Many aspiring entrepreneurs think they can turn a skill into a business. But as Sierra learned from running a plumbing company with her husband, being good at the craft isn’t enough. Administrative duties, invoicing, scheduling, licensing, and taxes are often heavier burdens than expected.Know Yourself Before You Leap — Starting a business or side hustle requires self-awareness. Sierra points out that knowing your blind spots, such as time management, communication, or money handling, is crucial. Otherwise, you risk burnout or damaging relationships, especially when working with a spouse.Not All Pivot Years Are Chosen — Sierra’s 2020 included a new baby, the start of pastoral training, and the eventual closure of her business. She didn’t plan that year as a pivot, but embraced it as one. External events (like a pandemic) can catalyze internal transformation if we’re paying attention.There’s Value in Delayed Callings — Sierra didn’t pursue ministry until later in life and in hindsight, her earlier roles in business, marketing, and community leadership prepared her better to shepherd others. Her story shows that starting something meaningful in your 30s or 40s can be a strength, not a setback.God Doesn’t Waste Hard Things — Whether in business failure, infertility, or career transition, Sierra believes deeply in a personal God who shows up in unexpected ways. Her resilience comes from trusting that God redeems suffering even when plans change or dreams are delayed.Follow Sierra’s Work on Substack. Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe

Is your career aligned with your values? Take my free assessment and find out in 3 minutes.Episode TakeawaysMine every season for transferable gold: Even “off-track” jobs are training grounds. Mike shares how banking years prepped him for pastoral work (problem-solving, steadiness, trust). He now treats each role like a field to be mined for skills he can carry forward.Purpose and community can outweigh the paycheck: He walked away from his highest-paying banking role to earn $25,000 in church work with no benefits, because the work felt more meaningful and provided the community he needed in that life chapter.Fail forward: Frustration is raw material for growth. After a painful job misstep, Mike adopted a “this is not the end” mindset (inspired by Failing Forward) and began using even bad decisions as learning fuel. He channels frustration into development instead of getting stuck.Count the real cost of leadership and guard your shadow: People often underestimate the emotional toll of leadership, as you carry others’ gifts, personalities, and pain, while stewarding people, not just hitting metrics. Your strengths can outrun your character if you ignore your shadow side.Calendar your values & do the inner work before saying “yes.” When weighing a CEO role, Mike mapped his real life, including time with God, family (his daughter’s sports), rest, and fun. Ask whether a job would move you toward or away from the person you hope to be at 75-90. You can find Mike on Instagram and Substack Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe

Paul Scribner, CEO of Raven Resources Corporation, shares his expertise in corporate finance and asset-based investing. He emphasizes the power of voice communication over text to build genuine partnerships. For career changers, he stresses the importance of clearly translating your value and understanding success metrics in a new environment. Scribner advocates for hiring non-traditional candidates, highlighting how diverse backgrounds enhance teams and foster adaptability. Embrace feelings of imposter syndrome while maintaining curiosity in your professional journey.

Episode Takeaways:Fly Fishing as Spiritual PracticeFly fishing became a deeply spiritual practice for Tim, offering healing, rhythm, stillness, and connection to the divine.The flow state it brings is similar to long drives without music or waiting on a surfboard—moments where the mind slows and the soul speaks.It’s not about catching fish but about slowing down, being present, and finding clarity.What is Spiritual Direction?Spiritual direction is akin to mentoring for the soul—a relationship in which a more seasoned believer walks alongside someone seeking clarity, healing, or deeper intimacy with God.Inspired by the Celtic concept of Anam cara ("soul friend"), a spiritual director listens deeply and helps individuals reflect on their lives and spiritual journeys.It's not therapy or coaching but a form of sacred listening and mirroring that invites transformation.The Role of a "Soul Friend"A soul friend is not your best buddy or pastor, but someone you can be vulnerable and authentic with, without fear of judgment.Tim emphasizes the value of someone “holding up a mirror” to reflect what’s really going on—hence his nickname, “The Velvet Hammer.”First-Half vs. Second-Half of Life FaithMany churches are excellent at supporting the first half of life (identity formation, habits, community), but less so in the second half (questions, mystery, intimacy with God).Spiritual direction helps people in midlife ask: “What now?” when former practices or church structures no longer feel adequate or life-giving.The journey becomes less about formulas and more about art, nuance, and presence.Common Struggles Clients FaceDisenchantment with inherited theology or church structures.Feeling distant from God despite doing all the “right things.”A loss of spiritual vitality or excitement.Questions about whether the spiritual path they’ve been on still fits them.Deconstruction and Re-enchantmentTim encourages people to honor their spiritual past without being bound to it.Faith changes are developmental, not failures.Clients often seek to re-enchant their faith—to experience vitality, awe, and a renewed sense of divine connection.Practices to Reconnect with GodJournaling emotions daily with a sentence on how you feel and why.Daily gratitude or “God sightings”, noticing divine presence in ordinary life.Writing a personal psalm each day to express lament, joy, or frustration.Paying attention to your desires, especially new ones that surface—these may be spiritual breadcrumbs.Theology Checks and “Unsigned Contracts”Many people operate under an unspoken contract with God: “If I do X, God will do Y.” Tim calls this “a contract God didn’t sign.”Letting go of transactional theology is essential for spiritual freedom and maturity.You can follow Tim’s Work at his website. Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe

Takeaways from today’s episode:Leadership & MinistryRelational capital is essential: Trust must be built before meaningful change can occur in any organization.Identity must be rooted in Christ: Healthy pastors don't derive their identity from their performance or congregation.Embrace adaptive leadership: Leaders must discern whether challenges are technical (clear solutions) or adaptive (requiring new thinking and more profound questions).Balcony leadership > Dance floor leadership: Leaders need to step back for perspective instead of constantly reacting on the front lines.Jiu-Jitsu as Professional ParallelsJiu-jitsu fosters humility, trust, and a deep sense of community, making it ideal for individuals in isolating roles, such as ministry or entrepreneurship.It's therapeutic and relational: Many practitioners find healing from social anxiety and develop close bonds.Marital Arts is a surprising model for discipleship: The structured mentorship, mutual accountability, and growth mirror spiritual formation.A powerful self-defense and confidence tool for kids, especially girls.Productivity & StrategyHustle isn’t sustainable: Ministry leaders must shift from a focus on hustle to a strategy-driven approach.Strategic productivity is key: Know what to focus on, when to rest, and when to push.Reactive leadership burns you out; responsive leadership builds stability.Slower, deeper work leads to sustainable growth, especially in post-COVID churches.Writing & Publishing: Self-publishing is a powerful tool: It allows for speed, ownership, and creating a legacy of practical, useful books.Think library, not masterpiece: Build a body of helpful content over time instead of aiming for a single magnum opus.Books are stepping stones, not capstones: Writing helps clarify and share what you’re already learning.You can find Chad on X/Twitter (@revchadbrooks) or Substack at Chad Brooks. His website is www.revchadbrooks.com Be sure to pick up his new book, “Is My Church Healthy?” Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe

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Key Takeaways from today’s episode:* Calling Through Crisis:* After years in ministry, Anthony found himself disillusioned with the performance-driven model of the church. The pandemic triggered a personal and professional re-evaluation that led him to leave traditional ministry.* From Stage to Studio:* With a background in music production (as part of AC & Brady, with millions of streams), Anthony channeled his creative passion into launching 1010 Creative, a content agency serving mission-driven brands and small businesses.* The Limitations of Big Church Metrics:* Anthony vulnerably shares how his initial goal—building the “biggest youth ministry”—became an idol. Despite drawing large crowds, he recognized the need for sustainable discipleship and formation.* Missional Communities as a Future Church Expression:* Inspired by a more relational and incarnational model, Anthony now dreams of planting missional communities on Long Island that make disciples in everyday spaces—such as dinner tables and delis—rather than on large stages.* Entrepreneurship as Calling:* When job opportunities dried up, Anthony drew on his entrepreneurial instincts, learning to build a business that aligned with his calling while supporting his family outside of traditional church paychecks.* Rooted Vision for Long Island:* Anthony feels called back to his hometown—one of the most unreached and spiritually apathetic regions in America—to be a missionary and build culture-shaping communities and businesses.* Content with a Mission:* Through 1010 Creative, Anthony helps local businesses grow by creating strategic content marketing that generates leads, attracts customers, and tells authentic brand stories.You can connect with Anthony on YouTube, on Instagram @AnthonyCarraiJr, and his business Ten Ten Creative.Thanks for listening. If you have questions you’d like me to cover on this podcast, reply to this e-mail or DM me. Jeffrey Riggs produced this podcast episode.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from Pixabay Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe

Key Takeaways from today’s episode:* Friendship and Adult Connection:We reflect on our deep friendship, how it has grown, and the intentionality required to maintain meaningful relationships as adults, particularly among men. Macho shares his background as a loner and how adulthood has allowed him to build lasting friendships.* Life Transitions and Calling:Macho discusses his and his family's major life moves—from Pittsburgh to Georgia and eventually to New York City. He recounts a pivotal moment when he sensed an unexpected call to return to NYC despite having just settled elsewhere, describing a process of discernment, prayer, and confirmation through the community.* Church Planting Journey:He shares the origin story of planting The Table NYC, a diverse faith community in Queens. Initially resistant to leading a church, Macho explains how events and growing leadership opportunities led him and his wife to recognize the call to plant a church. Their approach began with dinner gatherings in their apartment to build community organically.* Bivocational Ministry:Macho talks about the challenges and benefits of being bivocational—working in IT while leading a church. He distinguishes between bivocationalism as a necessity and strategy, ultimately embracing it as the latter. He reflects on how working outside the church has kept him connected to the broader community and how this model has become a sustainable way to live out his calling in an expensive city like New York.* Faithfulness in Uncertainty:The conversation ends with Macho discussing how he remains faithful through uncertainty, especially amid recent personal health challenges. He emphasizes learning to shorten his time in frustration and doubt, trusting in God's past faithfulness to sustain him through present struggles.Ways to Connect:Listeners can follow Macho’s writing at macholara.substack.com or find him by searching online. His church, The Table NYC, is based in Sunnyside, Queens.Macho is currently launching a Kickstarter for his forthcoming book, Ctrl+Alt➔Believe, I encourage you to support here.Thanks for listening. If you have questions you’d like me to cover on this podcast, reply to this e-mail or DM me. Jeffrey Riggs produced this podcast episode.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from Pixabay Get full access to Eric Hoke at erichoke.substack.com/subscribe