Some of my Best Work with Eric Hoke

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available on Amazon in Hardcover, Paperback, and Kindle.Episode Takeaways:From Atheist to Pastor – Justin shares how he became an atheist at 15, moved to Ohio to explore the question of God’s existence, and experienced a transformative spiritual encounter that led him to return to New York to do ministry.Entrepreneurship as Calling, Not Just Career - Justin launched Matera Management (a marketing firm) shortly after college and later co-founded City League Coffee. His ventures weren't just for profit; they were purpose-driven, providing funds for his church plant and serving as community hubs.Ministry and Business Are Not Opposed - Justin critiques the false divide between ministry and entrepreneurship, especially in church culture. Drawing on his experience, he argues that pastors need to understand finances, profit and loss statements (P&Ls), and strategy, not only for stewardship but also to prevent organizational dysfunction.Coffee Shop Ministry - The coffee shop he “accidentally” started began as a workaround to rent space (landlords wouldn’t lease to a church). It became a missional outpost: their first barista, who had joined as an atheist, later came to faith, was baptized, and started his own business.Justin is the Founder of Zion NYC, Mattera Management and Co-Owner of City League Coffee. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! Order your copy (Kindle, Hardcover & Paperback) at a discounted rate for this week and this week only! Sale ends 9/5/25.Episode Takeaways:Clarity comes after obedience, not before – Sitting in a Wahlburgers with a journal and a question mark ("Church planting?") became the first step toward founding a multi-ethnic church in Minneapolis.Follow the cloud, not the crowd – Tabi’s posture wasn’t “prove it to me, God.” It was: “I’ll walk unless you stop me.” Bivocational doesn’t mean bi-committed – Tabi leads a learning & development team and a church and how having a career actually fueled her ability to plant without financial strain or burnout.The local church and resistance to female pastors - Tabi’s leadership was questioned more inside church walls than in corporate offices. Tabi Horne is the Pastor of The Gathering in Minneapolis. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world and career, pick up a copy today. Releases in 4 days! Episode Takeaways:* Church planting shapes you as much as you shape the church – Planting in an urban context accelerates leadership growth, humbles you, and forces you to adapt to cultural realities you didn’t anticipate.* Shared leadership is essential in co-vocational ministry. Co-pastoring allows you to split preaching and pastoral duties, avoid burnout, and serve more effectively while holding full-time jobs.* Humility opens doors in multicultural ministry – Letting go of control, honoring cultural differences (even in worship style), and accepting you’re not “the star” can make a ministry more vibrant and healthy.* Urban and suburban ministry have different but equal challenges – Urban ministry faces resource constraints, long commutes, and financial sustainability struggles; suburban ministry can struggle with isolation and engaging people who appear to “have it all.”* Pastoral skills translate into SaaS sales – Empathy, listening, problem-solving, and building relationships proved directly transferable to selling software, leading to strong early success and significant financial stability.You can connect with Stephen on his LinkedIn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world (values, beliefs, convictions) and career, pick up a copy today. Releases in 11 days! Doug Black is a multi-passionate entrepreneur, digital strategist, and ministry leader with a knack for solving complex problems and bringing creative visions to life. He is the founder and CEO of Triple Nerd Score, a web development agency that builds websites, web apps, marketing campaigns, and SaaS products for clients ranging from small churches to Fortune 500 companies.He also leads M3Ridian and serves as the lead pastor of McKees Rock Assembly. In all his roles, Doug focuses on blending technical excellence with meaningful impact, helping organizations grow while staying grounded in faith and purposeEpisode Takeaways:Keys to Growing an Agency* Lead with service. Position yourself as a partner solving problems.* Keep overhead minimal; use remote work, AI, and low-cost tools.Lessons Learned Building* Hire slow, fire fast; wrong hires hurt culture.* Screen clients early with “vibe checks” and refer out if not a fit.Faith & Work* Triple Nerd Score is not branded as a “Christian company” to avoid limiting reach; sees all work as sacred.You can connect with Doug on his website This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world and career, pick up a copy today. Releases 9/1/25!Episode Takeaways:Ministry Outside the Mold - Andre shares how traditional church roles didn’t fit his entrepreneurial spirit, leading him to create Barbecue Church—a digital, grassroots ministry reaching thousands through smoked meats and the gospel.The Hidden Cost of Church Staff Roles - He reflects on the emotional and financial toll of leaving a church, revealing how many pastors are left without community, paycheck, or purpose when a role ends.Reaching Men with Real Talk and Real BBQ - Andre's work through the 225 Man initiative and Barbecue Church reframes men’s ministry.Authenticity over Assimilation - He unpacks the challenge of being a Black pastor in predominantly white church contexts, calling out how churches often want the “image” of diversity without embracing diverse voices.Your Calling Doesn’t Fit in a Box - Andre's journey through multiple careers, from youth pastor to parking logistics to diamond sales, illustrates that calling is layered, and faithfulness doesn’t always look like a 9-to-5 job in a church office.You can learn more about Andre’s Ministry at BBQ Church. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Are you an Incongruent Professional? Take my Free Assessment and find out where you are out of whack.Episode Takeaways:Running a Small Business Is More Than Doing the Craft - Many aspiring entrepreneurs think they can turn a skill into a business. But as Sierra learned from running a plumbing company with her husband, being good at the craft isn’t enough. Administrative duties, invoicing, scheduling, licensing, and taxes are often heavier burdens than expected.Know Yourself Before You Leap — Starting a business or side hustle requires self-awareness. Sierra points out that knowing your blind spots, such as time management, communication, or money handling, is crucial. Otherwise, you risk burnout or damaging relationships, especially when working with a spouse.Not All Pivot Years Are Chosen — Sierra’s 2020 included a new baby, the start of pastoral training, and the eventual closure of her business. She didn’t plan that year as a pivot, but embraced it as one. External events (like a pandemic) can catalyze internal transformation if we’re paying attention.There’s Value in Delayed Callings — Sierra didn’t pursue ministry until later in life and in hindsight, her earlier roles in business, marketing, and community leadership prepared her better to shepherd others. Her story shows that starting something meaningful in your 30s or 40s can be a strength, not a setback.God Doesn’t Waste Hard Things — Whether in business failure, infertility, or career transition, Sierra believes deeply in a personal God who shows up in unexpected ways. Her resilience comes from trusting that God redeems suffering even when plans change or dreams are delayed.Follow Sierra’s Work on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Is your career aligned with your values? Take my free assessment and find out in 3 minutes.Episode TakeawaysMine every season for transferable gold: Even “off-track” jobs are training grounds. Mike shares how banking years prepped him for pastoral work (problem-solving, steadiness, trust). He now treats each role like a field to be mined for skills he can carry forward.Purpose and community can outweigh the paycheck: He walked away from his highest-paying banking role to earn $25,000 in church work with no benefits, because the work felt more meaningful and provided the community he needed in that life chapter.Fail forward: Frustration is raw material for growth. After a painful job misstep, Mike adopted a “this is not the end” mindset (inspired by Failing Forward) and began using even bad decisions as learning fuel. He channels frustration into development instead of getting stuck.Count the real cost of leadership and guard your shadow: People often underestimate the emotional toll of leadership, as you carry others’ gifts, personalities, and pain, while stewarding people, not just hitting metrics. Your strengths can outrun your character if you ignore your shadow side.Calendar your values & do the inner work before saying “yes.” When weighing a CEO role, Mike mapped his real life, including time with God, family (his daughter’s sports), rest, and fun. Ask whether a job would move you toward or away from the person you hope to be at 75-90. You can find Mike on Instagram and Substack This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Paul Scribner, CEO of Raven Resources Corporation, shares his expertise in corporate finance and asset-based investing. He emphasizes the power of voice communication over text to build genuine partnerships. For career changers, he stresses the importance of clearly translating your value and understanding success metrics in a new environment. Scribner advocates for hiring non-traditional candidates, highlighting how diverse backgrounds enhance teams and foster adaptability. Embrace feelings of imposter syndrome while maintaining curiosity in your professional journey.

Episode Takeaways:Fly Fishing as Spiritual PracticeFly fishing became a deeply spiritual practice for Tim, offering healing, rhythm, stillness, and connection to the divine.The flow state it brings is similar to long drives without music or waiting on a surfboard—moments where the mind slows and the soul speaks.It’s not about catching fish but about slowing down, being present, and finding clarity.What is Spiritual Direction?Spiritual direction is akin to mentoring for the soul—a relationship in which a more seasoned believer walks alongside someone seeking clarity, healing, or deeper intimacy with God.Inspired by the Celtic concept of Anam cara ("soul friend"), a spiritual director listens deeply and helps individuals reflect on their lives and spiritual journeys.It's not therapy or coaching but a form of sacred listening and mirroring that invites transformation.The Role of a "Soul Friend"A soul friend is not your best buddy or pastor, but someone you can be vulnerable and authentic with, without fear of judgment.Tim emphasizes the value of someone “holding up a mirror” to reflect what’s really going on—hence his nickname, “The Velvet Hammer.”First-Half vs. Second-Half of Life FaithMany churches are excellent at supporting the first half of life (identity formation, habits, community), but less so in the second half (questions, mystery, intimacy with God).Spiritual direction helps people in midlife ask: “What now?” when former practices or church structures no longer feel adequate or life-giving.The journey becomes less about formulas and more about art, nuance, and presence.Common Struggles Clients FaceDisenchantment with inherited theology or church structures.Feeling distant from God despite doing all the “right things.”A loss of spiritual vitality or excitement.Questions about whether the spiritual path they’ve been on still fits them.Deconstruction and Re-enchantmentTim encourages people to honor their spiritual past without being bound to it.Faith changes are developmental, not failures.Clients often seek to re-enchant their faith—to experience vitality, awe, and a renewed sense of divine connection.Practices to Reconnect with GodJournaling emotions daily with a sentence on how you feel and why.Daily gratitude or “God sightings”, noticing divine presence in ordinary life.Writing a personal psalm each day to express lament, joy, or frustration.Paying attention to your desires, especially new ones that surface—these may be spiritual breadcrumbs.Theology Checks and “Unsigned Contracts”Many people operate under an unspoken contract with God: “If I do X, God will do Y.” Tim calls this “a contract God didn’t sign.”Letting go of transactional theology is essential for spiritual freedom and maturity.You can follow Tim’s Work at his website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Takeaways from today’s episode:Leadership & MinistryRelational capital is essential: Trust must be built before meaningful change can occur in any organization.Identity must be rooted in Christ: Healthy pastors don't derive their identity from their performance or congregation.Embrace adaptive leadership: Leaders must discern whether challenges are technical (clear solutions) or adaptive (requiring new thinking and more profound questions).Balcony leadership > Dance floor leadership: Leaders need to step back for perspective instead of constantly reacting on the front lines.Jiu-Jitsu as Professional ParallelsJiu-jitsu fosters humility, trust, and a deep sense of community, making it ideal for individuals in isolating roles, such as ministry or entrepreneurship.It's therapeutic and relational: Many practitioners find healing from social anxiety and develop close bonds.Marital Arts is a surprising model for discipleship: The structured mentorship, mutual accountability, and growth mirror spiritual formation.A powerful self-defense and confidence tool for kids, especially girls.Productivity & StrategyHustle isn’t sustainable: Ministry leaders must shift from a focus on hustle to a strategy-driven approach.Strategic productivity is key: Know what to focus on, when to rest, and when to push.Reactive leadership burns you out; responsive leadership builds stability.Slower, deeper work leads to sustainable growth, especially in post-COVID churches.Writing & Publishing: Self-publishing is a powerful tool: It allows for speed, ownership, and creating a legacy of practical, useful books.Think library, not masterpiece: Build a body of helpful content over time instead of aiming for a single magnum opus.Books are stepping stones, not capstones: Writing helps clarify and share what you’re already learning.You can find Chad on X/Twitter (@revchadbrooks) or Substack at Chad Brooks. His website is www.revchadbrooks.com Be sure to pick up his new book, “Is My Church Healthy?” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com