All Things Product with Teresa and Petra

The hosts explore the innovative Product Leadership Wheel, a self-assessment tool that aids product leaders in personal growth. They discuss the three critical buckets of product leadership: People, Product, and Ways of Working. Overwhelm in leadership is tackled with practical strategies to manage it. The conversation emphasizes the risks of splitting leadership roles too soon and shares insights on empowering teams without relinquishing authority. Plus, listeners get an exclusive sneak peek into Petra's upcoming email course for aspiring product leaders!

Discover how AI prototyping tools are transforming product development, making it faster and more interactive. Learn why understanding engineering is still crucial, even in a no-code landscape. The discussion highlights common pitfalls and the importance of teamwork in building effective prototypes. You’ll also hear about the role of iterative testing and the surprising value of even failed prototypes. Get ready to rethink what it means to prototype and test assumptions efficiently!

Key Topics Covered: What product ops is not—and why the role is often misunderstood Different models of product ops across organizations Product ops vs. product leadership: where’s the line? When to hire a product ops person (and when not to) The enabling team model from Team Topologies Why Teresa and Petra are wary of “methodology police” in discovery How product ops can support skill building, analytics, and communication standards The shipyard metaphor: keeping the environment healthy for empowered teams Coaching as a product ops responsibility—helpful or risky? Key Takeaways: Product ops isn't a checklist hire—it’s a strategic move to fill specific gaps The best product ops folks blend a product mindset with another core strength (e.g. analytics, L&D, change management) Not all gaps should be filled by product ops—sometimes it’s about enabling HR, data, or leadership to step up Product ops is a great career path for senior PMs who don’t want to move - into people leadership but still want to shape the organization Resources & Links: Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com Mentioned in the episode: Product Operations by Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles Strong Product People and Strong Product Communities by Petra Wille Learning and development (L&D) Team Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais Petra’s Coaching Cards (DIY Edition) / Purchase the DIY kit Petra’s related blog posts on leading effective one-on-ones: - Struggling to Find the Time to Develop Your Product Managers? Start Here, - The Ultimate Coaching Question: What Are You Going to Do Differently?, and - The Product Leader’s Guide to Giving Feedback A note from Petra: “In case people own my first book, 'Strong Product People, ' these chapters talk about 1:1s and coaching: Chapter 6: Identifying and Closing Product Manager Gaps, Chapter 7: The Power of Coaching, Chapter 8: Monitoring Performance and Giving Feedback (a good read for one-on-one prep), Chapter 10: Building Individual and Team Alignment, and Chapter 11: How to Find the Time? (especially helpful for busy leaders)."

Discover why not every outcome needs to be measurable right away, and how focusing on unmeasurable goals can drive innovation. Explore the transformative journey of shifting from applications to meaningful hires. Delve into the HEART framework for measuring customer happiness and learn the nuances between metrics, signals, and goals. Understand how to define outcomes in early stages and why creating value moments is crucial for effective product strategy. Plus, uncover common misconceptions about achieving product-market fit.

Topics Covered The Trend That Sparked This Episode: Petra flags a shift she’s noticing: more folks joining communities asking, “What can I get?” instead of, “How can I help?” Why Communities Matter: The unexpected long-term benefits of engaging in a community—and how the payoff often comes years down the road. The Origin Story of Petra & Teresa’s Connection: A short, enthusiastic conference interaction leads to years of collaboration and friendship. What Giving Actually Looks Like: The difference between offering value and unsolicited advice. (Spoiler: one builds trust, the other breaks it.) Behind the Scenes of Conferences & Course Communities: How Petra and Teresa handle entitlement, scholarship requests, and volunteering—and why the approach matters. Online Community Behavior: From Slack spamming to thoughtful sharing: how to show up well in digital spaces. Choosing Where to Engage: Why less is more when it comes to online communities—and how to pick the right ones for deeper involvement. Mentorship, Giving at Any Level, and the Power of Small Gestures: Even a thank-you note or recipe can go a long way. Giving isn’t transactional—it's relational. Key Takeaways Give before you ask. Community thrives when people contribute without - expecting immediate returns. Quality > quantity. You don’t need to be everywhere—just pick a few communities and show up consistently. A little effort goes a long way. Whether it's sharing your learnings or offering to help, even small contributions can lead to big connections. Be mindful of timing and tone. Offering value is great—unless it’s delivered like a sales pitch or advice no one asked for. Communities remember generosity. Years later, people still remember who offered help, not who just wanted the mic. Resources & Links: Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com Mentioned in this episode: Meetup ProductTank Slack LinkedIn Mind the Product San Francisco 2019 Petra’s Coaching Cards Petra’s Books Teresa’s Book Barry O’Reilly’s book, Unlearn: Let Go of Past Success to Achieve Extraordinary Results Teresa’s Product Discovery Courses Teresa’s CDH Membership Community Lenny’s Newsletter Slack Community

Can product and project models coexist? The discussion traces the evolution of software delivery and its current challenges. Insight is provided on when to use project models for compliance versus product models for ongoing tasks. Accessibility is explored within these frameworks, highlighting the need for nuanced approaches. The conversation emphasizes collaboration across departments and adopting a dual perspective for success. Finally, it covers the importance of feedback loops to determine when work is genuinely complete.

Explore the art of saying no as a product manager, highlighting its crucial role in prioritization and focus. Discover strategies to manage overcommitment while ensuring stakeholder expectations are met with transparency. Learn the difference between various types of 'no' and how to create systems for evaluating new ideas. Embrace small wins and the concept of a 'Friday afternoon list' to boost team morale while balancing strategic goals with moments of spontaneity that delight customers.

Topics Covered: Why the Product at Heart leadership event in Barcelona was canceled—and what it taught us The hidden stigma of coaching for leaders Vulnerability as a leadership skill The Learning Menu framework: how to invest in your development at any budget level From free resources to high-ticket coaching—how to choose the right growth path Reflection, journaling, and emotional resilience in product leadership The importance of finding your learning “dojo” How conferences offer more than just talks (think: peer benchmarking and teaching tactics) Ethical coaching boundaries and what happens when coaching reveals misalignment Resources & Links: Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com Mentioned in the episode: Product at Heart Product Talk Academy - Teresa’s Product Discovery Courses Coaching for Product Leaders/Executives with Petra Wille Behind the founder: Drew Houston (Dropbox) - Lenny Rachitsky’s podcast episode with Drew Houston How the “Learning Menu” Concept Can Help Develop Your Product Team - Petra’s Learning Menu article Harvard Business Review Meetup Product Talk Blog - Teresa’s blog Product Leadership Blog - Petra’s blog Product Talk Academy Free Mini Courses - Teresa’s free mini-course Continuous Discovery Habits Membership - Teresa’s community for continuous discovery practitioners and features monthly leadership calls. Quarterly Leadership Newsletter with Petra Continuous Discovery Habits - Teresa’s book STRONG Product People and STRONG Product Communities - Petra’s books Workshops by David Bland and Jeff Gothelf Maven Learning’s Lightning Lessons Toastmasters International Christina Wodtke’s book Present Yourself Finding Your Learning Headline - from Petra’s blog post

Discover why traditional prioritization models like ICE and RICE might be holding you back. Learn tactical strategies for cleaning up massive product backlogs, including auto-closing old tickets and organizing items by themes and user groups. Embrace the 'Inbox Zero' approach to manage overwhelming tasks. Hear real-world stories about pruning ticket queues and the unexpected complexities of seemingly simple projects. Finally, uncover how focusing on outcomes, rather than endless rankings, can lead to quick wins and build trust within your team.

Dive into the intriguing world of product strategy! Explore the myth of explicit strategies and how implicit ones shape decision-making. Learn the importance of documenting strategies for collaboration and adapting based on user insights. Discover the dynamic role of product teams as strategic sensors, identifying patterns in customer behavior. Case studies from Intercom and Spotify showcase strategy in action. Finally, embrace an iterative approach to strategy, emphasizing continuous dialogue and adaptive planning.