Mostly Growth

Leah Tharin, a product-growth leader and host of Producty, dives into why growth connects marketing traffic to product revenue. She introduces a new mid-funnel segment of visitors who seek product information rather than onboarding. Leah advocates for structuring content for AI and warns against gaming search metrics. She emphasizes the importance of qualifying buyer intent before trials and creating specialized metrics for ideal customer profiles. The discussion concludes with humorous stories about business blunders and pricing strategies in shrinking markets.

Dive into the world of B2B marketing as the hosts breakdown Kyle's enlightening 2025 Go-To-Market report. Discover why companies should invest deeply in a few key channels instead of spreading their budgets thin. Explore the effectiveness of founder-led content on LinkedIn and the rise of AI search versus the failures of AI SDRs. CJ shares his innovative "analytics escalator" framework, while the crew reflects on business blunders and even takes a nostalgic look at LimeWire's unexpected comeback in the Web3 space.

In this episode, CJ Gustafson, Kyle Poyar, and Ben Hillman dive into the concept of “sloponomics”—a tongue-in-cheek look at the overwhelming flood of mediocre AI-generated content and what it means for creators, startups, and investors. They discuss how unique voices and genuine creativity will stand out in an AI-saturated landscape, the economic parallels between modern content creation and startup growth, and the tricky dynamics of building sustainable momentum in a world of noise. The trio also unpack the “$10K MRR” meme, pricing psychology, and the difference between chasing vanity metrics and building lasting value. With humor and real-world insight, they explore how AI, distribution, and early-stage investment are reshaping what success looks like in tech and media.Timestamps:00:00 Preview and Intro01:37 Being Mean to AI and Early Banter05:00 The Rise of AI-Generated “Slop” Content07:15 The Creator “Haves and Have-Nots”09:00 Losing Credit to AI Models11:20 Feeding the Beast: 400 Posts Later12:00 “Slop Talk” and Pop-Culture References13:00 The $10K MRR Meme and Startup Momentum15:20 Pricing Psychology and Product Traction17:10 Hunting Mice, Buffalo, and Elephants18:45 The Ideal Customer Profile and Early Adopters20:15 Venture Funds, Bubbles, and Ecosystem Investing23:45 When Startups Invest in Startups26:40 Slack, Lattice, and the Platform Play29:05 Wrapping Up and Late-Night InsightsEpisodes Referenced:Slop Talk (coming soon)https://www.youtube.com/slackerstuffWhy Only 2% of Startups Make Ithttps://youtu.be/czh5evg77vQWhen startups burn cash faster than they learn | Ivan Makarov:https://youtu.be/EdTt2l89bUo996 Culture, Exploding AI Bills & SaaS Chaoshttps://youtu.be/qhrxDL0gsRoLinks:https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/study-proves-being-rude-to-ai-chatbots-gets-better-results-than-being-nice-3269895/https://www.usg.edu/galileo/skills/unit07/internet07_02.phtmlhttps://futurism.com/altman-please-thanks-chatgpthttps://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/over-50-percent-internet-ai-slophttps://www.axios.com/2025/10/14/ai-generated-writing-humanshttps://www.economist.com/business/2025/10/16/sloponomics-who-wins-and-loses-in-the-ai-content-floodhttps://x.com/madhuraaa_/status/1978390720881819884https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/eat-what-you-killhttps://christophjanz.blogspot.com/2014/10/five-ways-to-build-100-million-business.htmlhttps://www.growthunhinged.com/p/how-to-build-your-early-gtm-strategyhttps://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/startups-investing-in-startups-peak-bubble-behaviorhttps://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/10/10/are-barefoot-shoes-good-for-runnershttps://x.com/ivanomaksf/status/1978852000298320068?s=46https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/uber-offers-drivers-extra-pay-to-perform-tasks-that-train-ai-7116401/https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/is-ltv-to-cac-the-nickelback-of-metricshttps://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/final-2024-25-network-tv-ratings-tracker-high-potential-1236312223/https://christophjanz.blogspot.com/2014/10/five-ways-to-build-100-million-business.htmlhttps://www.theinformation.com/articles/ben-horowitz-hires-jensen-vercel-starts-venture-fundhttps://www.instagram.com/chasemytail/

In this episode of Mostly Growth, CJ, Kyle, and Ben start with Carl’s infamous “AWS from the car” rant before diving into a sharp, funny breakdown of corporate title inflation and the slow death of middle management. From “Founding BDRs” to self-proclaimed “VPs of vibes,” the crew dissects why org charts are flattening and how that changes leadership, accountability, and hiring. Then, in a classic Pricing Model Roast, they unpack why hybrid and usage-based models are both brilliant and broken, what outcome-based pricing gets wrong, and why take rates might secretly be the future. The trio closes with thoughts on momentum, AI urgency theater, and how to manage teams without burning them out—or yourself in the process.Timestamps:00:00 Carl from the Car on AWS01:04 Mostly Growth intro theme01:27 CJ’s flight back from LA (and the fake Wi-Fi warning)02:00 “I finally learned where Mississippi was”02:45 LA traffic and Nobu dinner with Ben04:08 Ben’s history lesson: why LA is a transportation nightmare06:34 “Clip it down” — segue to the main topic07:20 Title deflation and the death of middle management09:12 “Founding BDR” and generic LinkedIn titles11:00 The problem with VP title inflation12:31 The vanishing middle manager14:03 “Bonfire of the Middle Managers” and why it matters15:52 Shout-out to good managers everywhere18:00 Pricing Model Roast — lightning round19:49 Why hybrid pricing is the “best worst” model22:12 Usage vs. commitment pricing in the AI era25:09 Outcome-based pricing and cash-flow pain31:23 Take-rate pricing and marketplace dynamics33:29 Momentum is not a moat — but maybe it’s a boat36:22 How fast companies really move in AI38:38 Building urgency without burning out your team41:10 Business Partners: The LinkedIn follower illusion42:46 The optimal number of direct reports45:24 Pricing in the Real World — why book publishing is a scamEpisodes Referenced:The $1 Trillion AI Bubble: Nvidia, OpenAI, and the Feedback Loophttps://youtu.be/DMz-hC1K3BYDecoding the Psychology of Price in the Age of AI | Michael Staniszhttps://youtu.be/qNn9_07efN4996 Culture, Exploding AI Bills & SaaS Chaoshttps://youtu.be/qhrxDL0gsRoLinks:https://x.com/shamusmadan/status/1978471423522840643/photo/1https://www.economist.com/business/2025/10/05/bonfire-of-the-middle-managershttps://www.growthunhinged.com/p/7de0e352-fd0f-4f75-bc70-f1adaa483a4ahttps://investing101.substack.com/p/momentum-moathttps://www.amazon.com/Formula-Universal-Laws-Success/dp/0316505498https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kirbyman_how-do-you-build-a-moat-in-consumer-ai-you-activity-7376301424613363712-cB5p/https://x.com/joshua_xu_/status/1978837502787219578https://www.heygen.com/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23054911095&gbraid=0AAAAABiJW6bRhkaamVJe8PfOSFAoc1FHdhttps://www.economist.com/business/2025/09/18/how-many-reports-should-a-manager-have?giftId=a90f0234-f411-481f-98c7-c8f530ec33f9&utm_campaign=gifted_articlehttps://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191001-dunbars-number-why-we-can-only-maintain-150-relationships

In this episode of Mostly Growth, CJ Gustafson, Kyle Poyar, and Ben Hillman dive into the question on everyone’s mind: are we in an AI bubble? What starts as a lighthearted riff on the U.S. Postal Service launching a podcast quickly spirals into a sharp, funny breakdown of today’s AI hype cycle — from Nvidia, OpenAI, and AMD trading money and GPUs in a trillion-dollar feedback loop, to startups burning cash chasing “AI-powered” everything. The trio share real examples of when AI helps and when it backfires (including one newsletter that totally tanked), debate whether companies are over-optimizing for automation, and laugh through the absurdity of the hype while grounding it in practical insights on product, finance, and growth.Timestamps:00:00 Preview and Intro00:14 Are We in an AI Bubble?00:44 The AI Money Loop: Nvidia, OpenAI, AMD01:00 Perplexity, We Caught You02:18 The Postal Service Launches a Podcast04:24 How the Team Uses AI (and When It Fails)06:07 CJ’s DIY Dunning Disaster08:38 What AI Is Good At — and Where It Breaks10:49 Perplexity Tries to Gaslight Kyle13:27 AI vs. AI: Hacking Resume Screeners16:09 How Recruiters View AI-Generated Resumes17:17 CJ’s Chief of Staff Hiring Story19:15 The Data: Is AI Adoption Already Slowing?22:42 Crossing the Chasm: Early Adopters to Early Majority26:22 The Streaming Analogy and Forced AI Bundles28:49 The Circular AI Economy (Everyone Funding Everyone)31:15 Betting It All on AGI and Data Centers34:09 The Margin: AI Erotica and the Peak of the Bubble35:23 Business Blunders: OpenAI’s Token Leaderboard41:43 What Kyle Tried This Week: Building an AI Agent44:52 Wrap-Up and OutroEpisodes Referenced:5,762 Job Applications. Zero Offers.Why Only 2% of Startups Make ItThe War for Talent is just getting started | Joe FloydLinks:https://usps-mailin-it.simplecast.com/https://i.imgflip.com/a92oy5.jpghttps://tabs.inc/webinar/tabs-agenthttps://substack.com/@kylepoyar/note/c-159017468?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/07/business/ai-chatbot-prompts-resumes.html?_bhlid=1b5906cdc6781a738a150d9c32f846ebf11fc318https://substack.com/home/post/p-175615945https://ramp.com/data/ai-index?utm_source=econlab.substack.comhttps://medium.com/@samuelvandeth/crossing-the-chasm-162802d1cf27https://x.com/TrungTPhan/status/1922669292929024017/photo/1https://kyla.substack.com/p/ai-is-the-market-and-the-market-is?r=cxcvo&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=truehttps://x.com/zerohedge/status/1977902195472322620?s=42https://topline.beehiiv.com/p/the-era-of-haves-and-have-notshttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd2qv58yl5ohttps://www.linkedin.com/posts/cj-gustafson-13140948_imagine-getting-called-into-your-cfos-office-activity-7381681514532458496-NOqa/https://fortune.com/2025/10/01/red-lobster-ceo-damola-adamolekun-comeback-plan-bankruptcy/https://fortune.com/2024/11/13/red-lobster-ceo-damola-adamolekun-says-endless-shrimp-is-never-coming-back/#https://www.relay.app/

The hosts celebrate their surprising ranking in Croatia before delving into the challenges of podcast growth. They discuss why only 2% of startups reach significant revenue and debate the harsh realities of winner-take-all markets. Creative tactics for growth are shared, from leveraging LinkedIn to optimizing discoverability. Business blunders are critiqued, along with the innovative pricing strategies of children’s venues. Insights on niche focus and perseverance offer valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs.

Conference season is back, and CJ and Kyle are swapping stories from the stage—how to nail a keynote, whether conferences are worth the money, and why your walkout song matters more than you think. From there, they dig into a new a16z report revealing where AI startups are actually spending their dollars, and CJ shares results from his summer survey showing that CFOs talk a big game about measuring AI ROI—but nobody knows how to do it. The crew also unpacks how SaaS companies like Slack are bundling AI into their products and hiking prices, before spiraling into a late-night “potentially reliable” rabbit hole featuring a Soviet pole vaulter, beat-and-raise forecasting, and J. Edgar Hoover. They close with lessons on pricing in the real world (yes, Amsterdam’s architecture is involved) and one experiment CJ tried this week.Timestamps:00:00 Preview and Intro01:28 Walkout Songs & Kicking Off Conference Season03:39 How To Give a Great Keynote and Not Bore the Room10:10 Are Conferences Worth the Money14:21 What AI Companies Are Actually Paying For — The a16z Report20:08 Summer Survey Results: The Elusive ROI of AI25:45 Why No One Knows How To Measure ROI on AI29:03 SaaS Companies Forcing AI — Bundling, Pricing, and Pushback33:57 A Potentially Reliable Thing I Read at 2 AM35:00 Soviet Pole Vaulter, Beat-and-Raise Forecasting & Hoover’s Borders39:20 Pricing in the Real World — Lessons from Amsterdam’s Skinny Houses42:56 Something I Tried This Week — FixyerEpisodes Referenced:Are You Bad at LinkedIn… or Is the Algorithm Lying?Why Founders Are Posting Sad DinnersLinks:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrqSrpOfhWshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmH4iWoJfTohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1tl66trXTQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPmAf5O8crohttps://www.getmobly.com/https://a16z.com/the-ai-application-spending-report-where-startup-dollars-really-go/https://d1lamhf6l6yk6d.cloudfront.net/uploads/2025/10/250923-B2B-Top-50-ILG-A-r6.pnghttps://www.growthunhinged.com/p/how-to-nail-your-next-big-talkhttps://www.leahtharin.com/p/113-vincent-pierri-how-to-deal-withhttps://www.freepik.com/https://cluely.com/https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/it-was-the-summer-of-25https://www.crescendo.ai/https://www.linkedin.com/posts/justintropic_slack-just-raised-prices-125-by-forcing-activity-7379132597009870848-XI6N/https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/what-a-soviet-era-pole-vaulter-can-teach-us-about-beating-and-raisinghttps://www.nytimes.com/1972/05/03/archives/j-edgar-hoover-made-the-fbi-formidable-with-politics-publicity-and.htmlhttps://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/73vh2j/til_that_the_dutch_government_once_enforced_a_tax/https://www.clearspaceliving.com/blog/why-dutch-stairs-are-so-steep/https://mjwrightnz.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/amsterdams-taxing-narrow-houses/https://www.fyxer.com/

Kyle officially joins the solopreneur ranks — and immediately finds out that freedom comes with invoices, admin, and double LLC fees. CJ welcomes him to the chaos before breaking down Wealthfront’s IPO, a masterclass in efficiency with 46% EBITDA margins and a Rule of 71. From there, the crew dives into take-private season in SaaS, unpacking why companies like Couchbase and PagerDuty are retreating from the public markets. Then it’s onto LinkedIn chaos — the algorithm, the pitch-slaps, and the mystery of why everyone’s engagement tanked. They close with a tangent only this show could pull off: a Japanese man’s world record sprint on all fours, the surprising Guinness origins, and a lightning round on Waymo’s taxi empire and trying out Stripe.00:00 – Intro04:40 – Kyle Goes Solopreneur: What Could Go Wrong?10:16 – The Wealthfront IPO Breakdown22:33 – Take-Private Season27:27 – Private Equity: Efficiency or Exploitation?32:27 – Are You Bad at LinkedIn, or Is the Algorithm?43:17 – The LinkedIn Pitch Slap46:33 – Obscure World Records48:01 – Lightning Round: Waymo & StripeLinkshttps://www.growthunhinged.com/p/a-new-chapterhttps://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/wealthfront-ipo-s1-breakdownhttps://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/netskope-ipo-s1-breakdownhttps://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/navan-ipo-s1-breakdownhttps://mercury.com/https://www.lookingforleverage.com/p/take-private-sznhttps://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/what-a-soviet-era-pole-vaulter-can-teach-us-about-beating-and-raisinghttps://tuck.dartmouth.edu/news/articles/where-did-all-the-public-companies-gohttps://www.axios.com/2024/05/31/vista-equity-pluralsighthttps://www.amazon.com/Plunder-Private-Equitys-Pillage-America/dp/1541702107https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/09/business/youth-sports-private-equity.htmlhttps://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/kkr-buy-varsity-brands-bain-capital-475-billion-sources-say-2024-07-03/https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/recent-activity/all/https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2025/9/japanese-man-runs-100-m-on-all-fours-in-blistering-time-after-studying-way-animals-movehttps://x.com/Patticus/status/1456266281833746445https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_World_Records#Historyhttps://web.archive.org/web/20120225172648/http://guinness.book-of-records.info/history.htmlhttps://www.stumbeanos.com/wpress/the-story-of-gus-comstock-worlds-coffee-drinking-champion/

The discussion kicks off with the impact of AI on traditional growth metrics like T2D3, questioning its relevance in today’s fast-paced market. They explore the alarming drop in SEO traffic and whether AI Engine Optimization can be the new game changer. The podcast dives into the harsh reality of today's tech job market, where CS grads face daunting unemployment rates. Lastly, the hosts poke fun at cringe-worthy LinkedIn posts and reveal unexpected pricing insights from renting traffic cones, combining humor with valuable lessons.

AI may be changing how we work, but it’s also changing how we interact with software — and not always for the better. CJ and Kyle Poyar dig into the growing pains of product design, IPOs in weird markets, and the unexpectedly depressing world of startup networking.Navan IPO: Why a $613M company burning $80M is still pushing for an $8B valuation — and what it says about the state of software IPOs.Prompt Bars Are Everywhere: The rise of “blank box” UX, why every app suddenly looks like ChatGPT, and how that’s giving users prompt anxiety.Referral Programs: Ponzi Scheme?: Incentives are up, CAC is down — but is this growth channel actually sustainable or just marketing MLMs in disguise?When to Disclose AI-Generated: If your calendar link feels cold, wait until your AI avatar shows up in an ad. We debate where the ethical (and strategic) line is for AI transparency.Business Blunders:• Sad Dinners (CJ): Why every LinkedIn dinner photo looks depressing — and what it says about startup culture.• ChatGPT Bad Chart (Kyle): An incredible dataset ruined by a rainbow mess of tiny fonts and meaningless categories.Potentially Reliable Thing at 2AM:• Arnold Twins Revenue (CJ): The wild deal behind Arnold Schwarzenegger’s comedy debut — and how it made more money than Terminator.• Reese Witherspoon Book Club (Kyle): Viral influence, middle-of-the-night decisions, and what media we trust half-asleep.Pricing in the Real World:• CJ: Iced Coffee Variable Pricing: Starbucks, cold brew, and the surprising economics of how product pricing actually works day to day.Something We Tried This Week:• Kyle: Fyxer Virtual Assistant: A hands-on experiment with offloading operational drag — what worked, what didn’t, and what Kyle’s still skeptical about.