Choiceology with Katy Milkman

When you fail to reach a challenging goal, say, saving a certain amount of money each month or getting to the gym a certain number of times a week, it can be tempting to just give up on the plan entirely. But new research shows that building some flexibility into that plan can actually improve your chances of success.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how mulligans, skip days, cheat meals, and get-out-of-jail free cards are important strategies for sticking to your long-term goals.In the era of pinball and video arcades, most games provided a limited number of turns or lives for every coin you put in the slot. When you ran out of lives, it was game over. You had to either walk away or pony up more money. That same limited-lives approach to game design followed in early home video game consoles. But in the 1990s, one company tried a new approach—and, in the process, changed the industry forever.Jeff Ryan tells the colorful story of how Nintendo's Super Mario Bros. became a runaway success and influenced countless games to come.Jeff Ryan is the author of Super Mario: How Nintendo Conquered America.Next, Katy speaks with Marissa Sharif about research that shows that cutting yourself a certain amount of slack—or dipping into what she calls "emergency reserves"—when life gets in the way of your goals can make all the difference.You can read more in the paper she co-authored with Suzanne B. Shu called Nudging Persistence After Failure Through Emergency Reserves.Finally, Katy gives several useful examples of emergency reserves in the real world that can help you learn a language, stick to a diet, or get your daily steps in.Choiceology is an original podcast fromCharles Schwab. For more on the series, visitschwab.com/podcast.[RP1]If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content. Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0323-3XMC)[RP1]This part will only be included in podcast apps.

It seems like every other week there's a news report about how coffee will help you live longer or will shorten your life. There are similar reports about vitamins and water consumption and any number of other health-related studies. So why do we see so much conflicting information around scientific research in the media? In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, a look at the slippery problem of separating correlation from causation.You'll hear the fascinating story of Franz Mesmer and the apparently miraculous effects of what he dubbed animal magnetism. Author Mara Rockliff recounts the sway that Mesmer held over the Parisian public and how Benjamin Franklin transformed the scientific method in his quest to find the truth.Mara Rockliff has written several books for young readers, including the multiple award-winning Mesmerized: How Benjamin Franklin Solved a Mystery That Baffled All of France.Next, economics professor John List joins Katy to discuss the reasons why we confuse correlation and causation and explains the best practices for separating the two in the study of charitable giving, early childhood education, business, and policy.John List is the Kenneth C. Griffin Distinguished Service Professor in Economics at the University of Chicago and the chief economist at Walmart.  Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(1122-26TV)

You've probably caught yourself indulging after a workout or a game or a stretch of healthy eating. Maybe it was a pint or two after a soccer game or an extra piece of cheesecake after a vigorous hike. These indulgences are easier to justify after a healthy activity. Ironically, though, these indulgences can undo some of your hard work. So why do we tend to behave this way? In this episode of Choiceology withKaty Milkman, a look at how we justify our decisions based on previous behavior.Alfred Nobel was a very successful inventor and businessman. His invention of dynamite transformed industry and saved lives by reducing the use of dangerously unstable nitroglycerin. But his reputation suffered as he became associated with some of the negative uses of his creation. Gustav Källstrand is the senior curator at the Nobel Prize Museum in Stockholm, Sweden. He tells the story of how Alfred Nobel accidentally read his own obituary (spoiler: it was not a positive story) and the efforts Nobel undertook to rescue his reputation.Next, Uzma Khan joins Katy to explain why people use "good" behavior to justify "bad" behavior, and vice versa. She discusses her research into this compensating behavior and how it impacts everything from health to consumer choice to charitable giving.Uzma Khan is an associate professor of marketing at the University of Miami. Finally, Katy explains how this phenomenon relates to what Nobel laureate Richard Thaler calls mental accounting, where we tend to place time and money (and in this case morality and self-control) into accounts, even though they are fungible resources. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.[RP1]If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(1022-2NKP)

If you’ve ever lost a job, or been through a breakup, or failed an exam, you’ll know that the aftermath can be painful and disorienting. But for some percentage of those who experience these disappointing outcomes, unforeseen opportunities will arise.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the occasional upside of being forced to quit a career, or a relationship, or even a favorite route to work.Kassia St. Clair brings us the story of William Henry Perkin. As a young man in 19th-century London, Perkin had set his sights on a career in chemistry and medicine. He devoted his time and energy to the search for a treatment for malaria, which was a growing problem around the world. Unfortunately, he failed in his quest, but his failure opened the door to a surprising new discovery that transformed an entire industry.Kassia St. Clair is a design journalist and the author of The Secret Lives of Color. Next, Annie Duke joins Katy to explain how events like a shutdown of the London subway system, or the COVID-19 pandemic, can sometimes surface new and previously unexplored options. She also discusses how our identities can be wrapped up in our choices, blinding us to alternatives that may actually serve us better.Annie Duke is a speaker and decision strategist. She’s also the author of How to Decide: Simple Tools for Making Better Choices. Finally, Katy explains that while giving up on important jobs, relationships, or habits may not always be the best option, the behavioral bias of escalation of commitment can cause us to experiment and explore too little in life.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(1022-29HP)

When we feel angry or excited, or happy or sad, the reasons for those emotions may seem obvious. Angry? It was that argument with a spouse. Excited? It was that promotion at work. Happy? Must've been that delicious meal. Sad? It was that tearjerker film, for sure. But it turns out that we often mistake the root causes of our feelings and other experiences.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a family of biases that affects the way we understand behaviors, events, and emotions.Samantha Futerman and Anaïs Bordier grew up in different parts of the world. They were raised speaking different languages. They lived in very different home environments. They experienced different types of schooling. You'd probably assume these two women with very different upbringings turned out quite differently.  After all, where and how you're raised has a big impact on the person you become. Surprisingly though, Samantha and Anaïs share some uncanny similarities.Samantha Futerman is an American actress, writer, and director. She is known for her supporting role in the drama film Memoirs of a Geisha, as well as her self-made documentary film Twinsters.Anaïs Bordier is a French designer and brand manager based in Paris. She was also a producer for the film Twinsters.Next, Katy speaks with Kareem Haggag about how our preferences change, more than we might expect, depending on the physical state we're in. You'll hear about how early morning classes may affect the choice of a college major and how your perceptions of a restaurant may be substantially influenced by your hunger level.Kareem Haggag is an assistant professor at the UCLA Anderson School of Management and a faculty research fellow at the National Bureau of Economic Research. You can read his research on attribution bias and other topics on his website. Finally, Katy offers tips on how to "debias" yourself and avoid the traps of misattribution, based on Kareem Haggag's findings.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0922-2AA0)

“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” A quintessentially American phrase from the Declaration of Independence. That “pursuit of happiness” takes many forms, but it turns out that some approaches are more likely to be successful, according to science. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a way to frame how you spend your time and money that may help you lead a happier life.Joshua Fields Millburn was hungry for success. Despite a difficult childhood, he was determined to make it big. He worked long hours, took little time off, and rapidly climbed the corporate ladder in his hometown of Dayton, Ohio. By his mid-twenties, he had worked his way to a director position at a telecommunications company and was leading a very prosperous lifestyle. But his workaholism had taken a toll. By 28, his marriage had failed, his mother had died, and Joshua was at a crossroads.You’ll hear how he was forced to take stock of what was most important—and how he shifted his priorities in a way that changed his life for the better.Joshua Fields Millburn in one half of the simple living duo the Minimalists.Next, Katy speaks with Cassie Mogilner Holmes about her research on time and happiness and how prioritizing quality time over money and material wealth can have lasting positive effects. She's the author of the new book Happier Hour: How to Beat Distraction, Expand Your Time, and Focus on What Matters Most.Cassie Mogilner Holmes is a professor of marketing and behavioral decision making at the UCLA Anderson School of Management.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0922-2WNE)

Humans can easily distinguish between a zero-chance event (e.g., the Washington Nationals winning the World Series in 2022) and a sure thing (e.g., the sun coming up tomorrow). But in between those two clear outcomes, it turns out that we’re not great at estimating odds.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, a bias that affects the way we predict the likelihood of rare events.Katia Jordan had all the makings of a tennis star: a preternatural talent, an intense drive to succeed, top-tier coaches, and parents who supported her dream completely. She was certain that she would be the next Venus Williams. But along the way, she discovered that her path to tennis glory was not as straight as she imagined.Katia Jordan is a former Division 1 tennis player and is currently script coordinator on the television program All American Homecoming.Next, Katy speaks with UCLA psychology professor Craig Fox about how we tend to overweight the likelihood of small probabilities. Building on seminal work by his mentor Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman, Dr. Fox explains a bias in the way we imagine the odds of rare events and demonstrates approaches gleaned from his research that can help us better avoid distortions in the way we conceptualize risk and reward.  Craig Fox is the Harold Williams Chair and Professor of Management at the UCLA Anderson School of Management.Finally, Katy gives examples of the areas in your life where you can save money, improve health, and avoid some anxiety by better understanding the true likelihood of rare events.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0822-2CTA)

You hear it a lot in contemporary education, the tech world, and the arts: that it's important to fail, to make mistakes so that you can learn from them and get better at whatever you do. But that generally accepted wisdom is incomplete.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how failure can cloud your ability to learn and to improve.Joseph Herscher is creator of the wildly successful YouTube channel Joseph's Machines. He builds intricate and whimsical contraptions that perform simple tasks in overly complicated ways. You may know them as Rube Goldberg machines. Joseph's machines take months to build—and often dozens and dozens of takes to capture on video in a single shot. That's because there are so many points of failure, it's rare for these elaborate contraptions to work perfectly.All that to say, Joseph Herscher is no stranger to failure. But his work illustrates a positive approach to a negative experience. Annoying as it can be, failure is a good way to gather useful information. You'll hear the story of one machine that nearly didn't work at all, because of an uncooperative baby. But, in the end, Joseph's Cake Server was a huge success, garnering millions of views online.Next, Katy speaks with Lauren Eskreis-Winkler about her research with Ayelet Fishbach on how we tend to ignore some or all of the information in failure, in part because failure is uncomfortable and ego-threatening.You can read more in the paper "Not Learning From Failure—the Greatest Failure of All."Lauren Eskreis-Winkler is an assistant professor of management and organization at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University.Finally, Katy gives you advice on how to better share critical feedback, and how to limit the ego-threatening aspects of failure by adopting a growth mindset.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐  rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Disclosures All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0822-2ERJ)

If you've ever been faced with an important decision when time was scarce, information was incomplete, or tempers were running high, you'll know that it's difficult to make a good choice. Now imagine a decision that has implications for the entire world, and the people facing that decision are 500 feet below the surface of the ocean in a nuclear-armed diesel submarine that is overheating and running out of power.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at decisions under pressure and how our thinking process is affected by stress.We begin in the Sargasso Sea, just off the coast of Florida, in October 1962. It's the height of the Cold War, and the Cuban Missile Crisis is bringing the U.S. and the Soviet Union closer to open conflict. John F. Kennedy has ordered a naval "quarantine" around Cuba after the discovery of Soviet missile installations there, and the Soviets have responded by sending a squadron of submarines to the area. Those submarines were ill-equipped for the warm waters around Cuba, and the squadron had little to no contact with Moscow. And they were being hunted by the American navy. It was a recipe for disaster.Dr. Svetlana Savranskaya tells the story of two of the Russian submariners in the fleet, one who demonstrates the dangers of making decisions under extreme pressure and the other who proves why it's best when cooler heads prevail.Dr. Savranskaya is director of Russian programs at the National Security Archive at George Washington University. You'll also hear an American perspective on this dangerous military interaction from a man who was there. Gary Slaughter served as a communications officer on the USS Cony during the Cuban Missile Crisis and is the author of Sea Stories: A Memoir of a Naval Officer.Next, Dr. Modupe Akinola joins Katy to discuss the mechanics of decision-making under stress. You'll hear how your stress system prepares you to act but also suppresses your ability to think clearly. Dr. Akinola offers ideas on how to prepare yourself for decisions and minimize the negative effects of stress in her paper "Thriving Under Pressure."Modupe Akinola is an associate professor of management at Columbia Business School, director at the Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. Center for Leadership & Ethics, and host of the TED Business podcast.Finally, Katy presents useful advice on being decision-ready and avoiding the hot-headed choice.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important Disclosures All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0522-2U4C)

Many of the decisions we make require us to compare numbers. Which car is most fuel efficient? How is a stock performing relative to the market? How risky is one medication versus another? A problem arises when we fail to make these comparisons in the right units.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the mistakes we make when we overweight absolute numbers and neglect their relative value.Damon Lesmeister is a wildlife biologist in Oregon who studies a very special bird: the northern spotted owl. This iconic animal is struggling to survive in the old growth forests of the Pacific Northwest. Among other challenges, the northern spotted owl is being crowded out of its habitat by an invasive species: the barred owl. Conservationists are now faced with a difficult decision, but one that is made more clear by properly comparing the relative sizes of the two owl populations.Damon Lesmeister is a research wildlife biologist with the US Forest Service and holds courtesy faculty appointments with Oregon State University in the Departments of Fisheries and Wildlife, and Forest Engineering, Resources and Management.Next, Yale finance professor Kelly Shue joins Katy to talk about places where non-proportional thinking is likely to occur and why it'’s such an easy mistake to make. She explains how the dollar value change of a share is much less important than the percentage change. Focusing solely on the dollar value can lead to consequential investor errors.Kelly Shue is a finance professor at Yale University and serves as an associate editor at The Journal of Finance and Journal of Financial Economics She previously served as an editor at the Review of Finance.You can read more about non-proportional thinking in financial markets in Kelly Shue's research paper co-authored with Rick Townsend.Finally, Katy discusses how you can avoid these non-proportional errors by making calculations that consider the denominator in any decision involving a ratio.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Past performance is no guarantee of future results and the opinions presented cannot be viewed as an indicator of future performance.Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes please see www.schwab.com/indexdefinitions.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0522-27BB)