Choiceology with Katy Milkman

You hear it a lot in contemporary education, the tech world, and the arts: that it's important to fail, to make mistakes so that you can learn from them and get better at whatever you do. But that generally accepted wisdom is incomplete.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how failure can cloud your ability to learn and to improve.Joseph Herscher is creator of the wildly successful YouTube channel Joseph's Machines. He builds intricate and whimsical contraptions that perform simple tasks in overly complicated ways. You may know them as Rube Goldberg machines. Joseph's machines take months to build—and often dozens and dozens of takes to capture on video in a single shot. That's because there are so many points of failure, it's rare for these elaborate contraptions to work perfectly.All that to say, Joseph Herscher is no stranger to failure. But his work illustrates a positive approach to a negative experience. Annoying as it can be, failure is a good way to gather useful information. You'll hear the story of one machine that nearly didn't work at all, because of an uncooperative baby. But, in the end, Joseph's Cake Server was a huge success, garnering millions of views online.Next, Katy speaks with Lauren Eskreis-Winkler about her research with Ayelet Fishbach on how we tend to ignore some or all of the information in failure, in part because failure is uncomfortable and ego-threatening.You can read more in the paper "Not Learning From Failure—the Greatest Failure of All."Lauren Eskreis-Winkler is an assistant professor of management and organization at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University.Finally, Katy gives you advice on how to better share critical feedback, and how to limit the ego-threatening aspects of failure by adopting a growth mindset.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐  rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Disclosures All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0822-2ERJ)

If you've ever been faced with an important decision when time was scarce, information was incomplete, or tempers were running high, you'll know that it's difficult to make a good choice. Now imagine a decision that has implications for the entire world, and the people facing that decision are 500 feet below the surface of the ocean in a nuclear-armed diesel submarine that is overheating and running out of power.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at decisions under pressure and how our thinking process is affected by stress.We begin in the Sargasso Sea, just off the coast of Florida, in October 1962. It's the height of the Cold War, and the Cuban Missile Crisis is bringing the U.S. and the Soviet Union closer to open conflict. John F. Kennedy has ordered a naval "quarantine" around Cuba after the discovery of Soviet missile installations there, and the Soviets have responded by sending a squadron of submarines to the area. Those submarines were ill-equipped for the warm waters around Cuba, and the squadron had little to no contact with Moscow. And they were being hunted by the American navy. It was a recipe for disaster.Dr. Svetlana Savranskaya tells the story of two of the Russian submariners in the fleet, one who demonstrates the dangers of making decisions under extreme pressure and the other who proves why it's best when cooler heads prevail.Dr. Savranskaya is director of Russian programs at the National Security Archive at George Washington University. You'll also hear an American perspective on this dangerous military interaction from a man who was there. Gary Slaughter served as a communications officer on the USS Cony during the Cuban Missile Crisis and is the author of Sea Stories: A Memoir of a Naval Officer.Next, Dr. Modupe Akinola joins Katy to discuss the mechanics of decision-making under stress. You'll hear how your stress system prepares you to act but also suppresses your ability to think clearly. Dr. Akinola offers ideas on how to prepare yourself for decisions and minimize the negative effects of stress in her paper "Thriving Under Pressure."Modupe Akinola is an associate professor of management at Columbia Business School, director at the Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. Center for Leadership & Ethics, and host of the TED Business podcast.Finally, Katy presents useful advice on being decision-ready and avoiding the hot-headed choice.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important Disclosures All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0522-2U4C)

Many of the decisions we make require us to compare numbers. Which car is most fuel efficient? How is a stock performing relative to the market? How risky is one medication versus another? A problem arises when we fail to make these comparisons in the right units.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the mistakes we make when we overweight absolute numbers and neglect their relative value.Damon Lesmeister is a wildlife biologist in Oregon who studies a very special bird: the northern spotted owl. This iconic animal is struggling to survive in the old growth forests of the Pacific Northwest. Among other challenges, the northern spotted owl is being crowded out of its habitat by an invasive species: the barred owl. Conservationists are now faced with a difficult decision, but one that is made more clear by properly comparing the relative sizes of the two owl populations.Damon Lesmeister is a research wildlife biologist with the US Forest Service and holds courtesy faculty appointments with Oregon State University in the Departments of Fisheries and Wildlife, and Forest Engineering, Resources and Management.Next, Yale finance professor Kelly Shue joins Katy to talk about places where non-proportional thinking is likely to occur and why it'’s such an easy mistake to make. She explains how the dollar value change of a share is much less important than the percentage change. Focusing solely on the dollar value can lead to consequential investor errors.Kelly Shue is a finance professor at Yale University and serves as an associate editor at The Journal of Finance and Journal of Financial Economics She previously served as an editor at the Review of Finance.You can read more about non-proportional thinking in financial markets in Kelly Shue's research paper co-authored with Rick Townsend.Finally, Katy discusses how you can avoid these non-proportional errors by making calculations that consider the denominator in any decision involving a ratio.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Past performance is no guarantee of future results and the opinions presented cannot be viewed as an indicator of future performance.Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes please see www.schwab.com/indexdefinitions.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0522-27BB)

Nudges are all around you. They might help you choose your meal at a restaurant, navigate a busy airport terminal, or start saving for the future. But nudges are often subtle, so you might not notice them until they’re pointed out. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we’re doing things a little differently. This episode is your guide to the many ways nudges have changed the world for the better. We'll revisit examples of nudges you may recognize from previous episodes of Choiceology. UCLA professor Shlomo Benartzi explains why defaults help more people save for retirement. University of Chicago professor Ayelet Fishbach reminds us how making the best choice a fun one is a great way to encourage better decisions. Harvard professor Todd Rogers discusses how social norms can help people reduce water and energy usage in hotels. You'll hear a feature interview with Nobel Prize-winning economist Richard Thaler, who along with Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein popularized nudges more than a decade ago in their book Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness. And Cass Sunstein himself talks about how simplifying application forms can have an outsized impact on financial aid programs for students.Richard Thaler is the Charles R. Walgreen Distinguished Service Professor of Behavioral Science and Economics at the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business. He is the author of several books, including Nudge: The Final Edition and Misbehaving: The Making Of Behavioral Economics.Next, you'll hear from cognitive scientist Maya Shankar about how reading Nudge led her to work in the White House. She served as a senior advisor in the federal government where she founded the White House Social and Behavioral Sciences Team. She's also the creator, host, and executive producer of the award-winning podcast A Slight Change of Plans.Finally, Katy discusses ways you can incorporate nudges in your own life to help you make better decisions. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0422-2A4K)

While it’s nice to think of ourselves as rational decision-makers, more often than not, emotion plays a role in how we decide. Some people may spend more on a new car when the weather is nice. Others may take bigger risks than normal after indulging in a sweet dessert. Some may make rash choices following a disappointing end to their favorite TV series.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how positive or negative sentiment from one part of your life can spill over and affect decisions in another.In New Zealand in 2011, two seemingly unrelated events—a general election and a Rugby World Cup—may have been connected and influenced by national mood.Auckland-based author and rugby player Jamie Wall brings us the story of the fabled All Blacks, the New Zealand men's national rugby team, and their nail-biting final match against archrival France. The All Blacks were considered one of the best teams in the world but hadn’t won a World Cup in 24 years. While they had home field advantage in 2011, they were facing steeper odds with the loss of several key players to injury during the tournament. You can read more about rugby and the All Blacks in Jamie Wall’s books, including his latest, Brothers in Black.New Zealand’s prime minister at the time, John Key, bucked tradition by announcing a national election earlier than usual in his government’s mandate—the country does not have a regular election cycle—and by choosing an election date shortly after the end of the World Cup tournament. Some in the press speculated that this was a calculated move, meant to take advantage of any positive national sentiment that might arise from a World Cup win. Political scientist Mona Krewel explains how wins and losses in major sporting events can have a measurable effect on the outcome of elections. Monal Krewel is a lecturer in comparative politics with a specialization in the study of elections, political parties, and public opinion at Victoria University of Wellington.Next Alex Edmans joins Katy to discuss his research into how national sentiment can affect the stock market. National sporting events seem to have an effect on markets as well as elections, particularly after important losses. But in more recent work, Alex explains how he and his collaborators discovered a novel way to measure sentiment on a national level using data from Spotify.Alex Edmans is a professor of finance at London Business School and the current Mercers' School Memorial Professor of Business at Gresham College. He’s also the author of the recent book Grow the Pie: How Great Companies Deliver Both Purpose and Profit. Finally, Katy reviews several strategies to help you minimize the negative effects of certain emotions on key decisions. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0422-25V4)

Don’t shoot the messenger is a metaphorical phrase for blaming the bearer of bad news. It’s easy to be angry with someone who is associated with information you don’t want to hear–say, a doctor delivering an unwelcome diagnosis, or a manager who has to fire you due to budget issues beyond her control. The phrase also points to a tendency we all have to overweight someone’s personality or disposition (that person who fired me is a jerk) and underweight the situation (sales were down this year, and they can’t afford current staffing levels).In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at this bias in a number of different contexts, and explore how it often leads us to make mistakes.Allen Sarven, a.k.a Al Snow, is a man who has been viewed as both a villain and a hero. He spent many years as a professional wrestler in the WWE as a heel or bad guy. Wrestling fans would heap scorn on him, and cheer on his opponents. Of course, it was all an act and as you’ll hear, he is a three-dimensional human being who thinks deeply about the nature of storytelling in pro wrestling and beyond.Recently, Sarven found himself being lauded by the media as a hero in a dramatic rescue in Florida. But he argues that anyone would have done the same thing if they were in his shoes.Allen Sarven is currently the owner and CEO of Ohio Valley Wrestling in Louisville, Kentucky.Next, Katy speaks with renowned social psychologist Richard Nisbett about how incomplete information can result in consequential errors. Nisbett argues that the fundamental attribution error gets us in trouble constantly. We often trust people we ought not to, or avoid people who really are perfectly nice, or we might hire people who are not all that competent, simply because we fail to recognize situational forces that may be affecting the person’s behavior.Richard Nisbett is the Theodore M Newcomb Distinguished University Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan. He’s also the author of many books, including Thinking: A Memoir.Finally, Katy talks about the ways that fundamental attribution can affect businesses and even your investment strategy.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB. (0322-263H) 

Supply chain issues and income inequality notwithstanding, we live in an age of abundance. Our closets overflow with clothing. Many children have more toys than they could possibly enjoy. Garages are filled with sporting gear. Offices are cluttered with gadgets. And even our calendars are packed with meetings and tasks. It can all be a bit much. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a bias that leads us to add to our collections and to-do lists but neglect to remove unnecessary or unhelpful items.We begin with the charming story of Strider Bikes, the pedal-less balance bikes for small children. Founder Ryan McFarland is an avid cyclist and motorcycle enthusiast. When his son Bode was 2 years old, Ryan was keen to get him started on riding toys. But nothing he tried quite worked for such a young child. So began a quest to engineer a bike that would get Bode riding right away but still teach him the fundamentals of two-wheeled cycling.You can read more about the Strider Bike story in the Leidy Klotz book Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less.Next, you’ll hear a re-creation of an experiment inspired by the research of Leidy Klotz and Gabrielle Adams and their collaborators, showing how this tendency to solve problems by addition can sometimes be costly and suboptimal.Gabrielle Adams joins Katy to discuss the science behind this bias towards addition. You’ll hear about practical strategies to overcome this bias that will help you save time and money—and maybe even declutter your mind.You can read more about subtraction neglect in the research paper Gabrielle Adams co-authored with Benjamin Converse, Andrew Hales, and Leidy Klotz.Gabrielle Adams is an assistant professor of public policy and business administration at the Frank Batten School of Leadership and Public Policy at the Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia. Finally, Katy discusses ways to identify opportunities to subtract things from your life that may end up making you better off.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐  rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Disclosures All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB. (0322-2NMD) 

For many people, the start of a new year is an occasion to re-examine their lives, to set new goals and to give up old habits. Making New Year’s resolutions is something of a social ritual, but we see similar behaviors around other significant dates, as well--such as birthdays and anniversaries and the changing of seasons. And while it can be argued that all of these dates are arbitrary, studies show that they can still give you a head start in achieving your goals.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we examine the common but not always rational phenomenon whereby people divide their lives into chapters. We look at ways to leverage this phenomenon to make better choices.The episode begins on a riverbank, with a religious rite symbolizing rebirth and renewal.Next, we hear about Ray Zahab’s life changing New Year’s resolution. What began as a simple plan to live a healthier lifestyle ended up taking him on incredible adventures all around the world. Ray is the author of the book Running For My Life.From Ray’s story of personal transformation around an auspicious date, we pivot to a related tendency for people to separate their money into mental accounts. Money, like time, is fungible--one dollar is as useful as any other dollar--and yet people often divide their money into different categories. Why?Nobel laureate and best-selling author Richard Thaler explains the value of this cognitive bias and explores some of the peculiar behaviors people exhibit when they earmark their money for different purposes. And John Beshears of the Harvard Business School describes a study that exposes this bias in the way people perceive the value of grocery store coupons.Finally, Katy Milkman offers additional tips on leveraging these temporal landmarks and personal budgets to help you stick with your resolutions.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.(0122-10M4)

Anticipating and planning for obstacles can sometimes be more powerful than adopting a positive mindset.A positive attitude is important when embarking on any new endeavor. However, as you may have heard in previous episodes of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, overoptimism also can blind you to important information.In this episode, we look at a strategy that can help counteract the effects of overoptimism and overconfidence. You could call it the power of negative thinking.We begin with the amazing story of a lake in Louisiana that completely disappeared in a matter of hours. An oil drilling accident in 1980 created a giant sinkhole in Lake Peigneur that rapidly drained massive amounts of water into an active salt mine, swallowing several boats and barges and large chunks of land in the process. The event was catastrophic, but no lives were lost, thanks in part to robust emergency planning.You’ll hear first-hand accounts of the dramatic event from Michael Richard, Sr., whose family owns and operates a garden and a nursery on the shores of Lake Peigneur, and from Dr. Kelvin Wu, who describes the scene in the salt mine as the disaster unfolded.Dr. Kelvin Wu is a retired mining engineer and former chief of the Mine Waste & Geotechnical Engineering Division at the Mine Safety and Health Administration.Michael Richard, Sr., owns and runs Rip Van Winkle Gardens and Live Oak Gardens on Lake Peigneur, Louisiana.Emergency planning played an important role in the outcome of this disaster. But planning for the worst needn’t be limited to life and death scenarios.Annie Duke joins Katy to argue that negative thinking—imagining failure in order to manage or prevent it— can actually help improve the odds of success when planning anything from a product launch to a birthday party. She argues that people shy away from negative thinking because it can feel unpleasant. But if you push through that unpleasantness, negative thinking can motivate you to take positive preemptive steps.Annie Duke is an author and decision strategist. You can read more about negative thinking in her book How to Decide.Finally, Katy differentiates negative thinking from pessimistic thinking. While pessimistic thinking can drain motivation and prevent you from setting goals, negative thinking can help you identify certain problems before they arise and raise your chances of success.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The book, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(1021-1UD8)

Most of us would prefer to avoid an argument at work or at home. But there are times when arguments—at least when they’re civil—can help surface important information for decision-making. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at situations where certain types of conflict can actually lead to better outcomes.You’re probably familiar with the story of Orville and Wilbur Wright. The Wright brothers secured their place in history by achieving the world’s first sustained flight of a powered, heavier-than-air aircraft at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, in December of 1903. Less well known is the fact that the brothers would often argue intensely with each other over their engineering ideas.Tom Crouch reveals the family culture of argument and debate inside the Wright home as the brothers were growing up, and he explains how that argumentative streak may have helped them solve a key problem in their quest for powered flight.Tom D. Crouch is curator emeritus of the Smithsonian Institution and the author of The Bishop’s Boys: A Lifeof Wilbur and Orville Wright.A version of the Wright Brothers story appears in Adam Grant’s new book, Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know. Adam joins Katy to discuss how you can leverage constructive conflict to arrive at better decisions. He also explains how agreeableness can sometimes hold you back. Adam Grant is the Saul P. Steinberg Professor of Management at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He’s also host of the popular TED podcast WorkLife.Finally, Katy provides advice on how to find the right level of task conflict in order to maximize the creativity and innovation that comes from collaborative problem solving.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(1021-1WX2)