Choiceology with Katy Milkman cover image

Choiceology with Katy Milkman

Latest episodes

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5 snips
Apr 26, 2021 • 37min

Hold That Thought: With Guests Sarah-Louise Miller, Warren Reed, Todd Rogers & Angela Duckworth

You probably have a list of reminders somewhere. Maybe you have a calendar with important dates marked. And likely a mental to-do list. And shopping lists. And gift ideas. And you’ve got to remember to get your taxes filed. And don’t forget to get those prescriptions filled before the drug store closes. And you’ve got to renew your insurance, and …There’s a lot of information to juggle in modern life. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at ways to improve reminders and reduce forgetting around things like voting, vaccinations, and international espionage.Sarah-Louise Miller is a doctoral candidate in the Department of War Studies at King’s College London. Sarah-Louise tells the story of Elizabeth Reynolds (a.k.a. Elizabeth “Minnie” Devereux-Rochester), a young courier operating behind enemy lines in France during the Second World War. Elizabeth’s ability to absorb and memorize information contributed greatly to the Allied war effort and may very well have saved her life.You’ll also hear from former Australian Secret Intelligence Service agent Warren Reed. He details the intensive memory training he encountered at MI6 and explains how memorization is key to an agent’s success and survival.Warren Reed is the author of several books on espionage. His latest is An Elephant On Your Nose.Next, Todd Rogers joins Katy to talk about research that addresses memory, forgetting, and reminders. Forgetting and “flaking out” on virtuous goals such as eating healthy, going to the gym, or voting is a major problem with negative consequences for individuals and communities. But with some subtle shifts in choice architecture, forgetting can be significantly reduced. Todd Rogers is a behavioral scientist and professor of public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. His research paper with Kay Milkman is titled Reminders Through Association.Finally, Angela Duckworth explains how planning prompts or implementation intentions can be used by everyone, including school-aged children, to improve follow-through on goals.Angela Duckworth is professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania and the author of Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0421-12UW)
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Apr 12, 2021 • 35min

In the Face of Risk: With Guests Jeff Elison & Ido Erev

For many, the onset of the coronavirus pandemic was terrifying. Descriptions of the outbreak in Europe and Asia led to panic buying and sheltering in place here at home. But, as time passed and people became acclimatized to life with masks and social distancing, many of those same people who were terrified at the outset began to let their guard down and take unnecessary risks.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a peculiar inconsistency around how we perceive risk and rare events.Jeff Elison is a professor and an avid rock climber. Jeff tells the story of a fateful climb on a beautiful sunny day just outside of Alamosa, Colorado. Jeff normally climbs with friends, but on this particular day, none of his regular partners were available. Early in his climbing career, Jeff might have balked at a solo climb, but as a veteran, he felt confident that he could manage the familiar climb safely. But then, he slipped and fell. …Jeff Elison is a professor of psychology at Adams State University. He is also the author of the book Vertical Mind: Psychological Approaches for Optimal Rock Climbing.Next, Ido Erev joins Katy to explain how we often overweight rare events when we make decisions based on a description and underweight rare events when we make decisions from experience. You’ll hear about his research identifying this phenomenon, as well as several personal anecdotes demonstrating how all of us fall prey to these miscalculations from time to time.Ido Erev is a psychologist, professor, and vice dean of the MBA program at the Technion–Israel Institute of Technology.Finally, Katy discusses strategies to mitigate the downsides of the description-experience gap in risky choice and ways to leverage the fact that we often underweight rare opportunities as well.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Schwab has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0421-1BBF)
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Mar 29, 2021 • 35min

Mindful of Mindsets: With Guests Erik Vance & Alia Crum

Have you ever visited your doctor to deal with a minor health issue and then left the office with nothing more than the doctor’s calming reassurance? Chances are good that you felt a bit better, physically, just by virtue of experiencing the environment of the clinic and anticipating some kind of improvement in your health.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore how your beliefs and expectations can have a very real impact on your health and well-being.Science journalist Erik Vance vividly recounts several peculiar experiences taking part in traditional healing ceremonies in Mexico. Erik examined certain aspects of these age-old rituals through the lens of modern science to discover some measurable effects on health. He also volunteered for a rather painful experiment in a research lab involving electric shocks with some surprising results.Erik Vance is a journalist and editor with the New York Times Well Desk. He’s also the author of the book: Suggestible You: The Curious Science of Your Brain’s Ability to Deceive, Transform, and Heal.Next, you’ll hear the results of a sneaky experiment with some unwitting volunteers involving special coffee.Then, Katy speaks with Alia Crum about her research into mindsets and the placebo effect and how they function to activate the body’s natural physiological abilities to heal itself. She explains how setting expectations can lead to improved outcomes in diet and exercise—and can have marked positive effects on stress management.Alia Crum is an assistant professor of psychology at Stanford University and the principal investigator of the Stanford Mind & Body Lab. Finally, Katy explains how you can leverage mindsets to help you achieve your goals.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Schwab has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0321-1XM5)
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Mar 15, 2021 • 36min

Some Assembly Preferred: With Guests Mike Norton & Michael Ojo

Hardware stores and home improvement shows often promote do-it-yourself projects. And while it’s challenging to make your own projects look as good as the ones on TV or in glossy brochures, building something yourself can be a very rewarding experience. The trouble is, the DIY approach can sometimes cloud your perceptions of the value of your project.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how putting personal effort into something—be it a hand-knit scarf, a new deck, or even a small business—can lead people to overestimate the value of that effort.Michael Ojo is a web developer and pilot influencer. He runs a popular YouTube channel called MojoGrip, where he shares his love of aviation. It’s also where he documented a project near and dear to him: the building of his first kit airplane, the Sling TSI. You’ll hear the story of Michael’s epic project. Everything from the steep learning curve, to the technical challenges, to the trials and tribulations of building a complicated piece of machinery in the midst of a pandemic. And then, the big question: will it fly?Next, Mike Norton joins Katy to discuss the science behind why people tend to place a higher value on their own projects, using research that, among other experiments, observed volunteers as they completed simple origami projects and then had them auctioned off against origami made by an expert. The results were surprising, and quite charming, as you’ll hear from our re-enactment of the experiment.Michael I. Norton is the Harold M. Brierley Professor of Business Administration at the Harvard Business School and co-author of the book Happy Money: The Science of Smarter Spending.Finally, Katy discusses the ways in which you can leverage this effect to boost happiness and satisfaction, while avoiding the pitfalls of overvaluing your own handiwork.Choiceology with Katy Milkman is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal. (0321-1YAM)
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Oct 12, 2020 • 31min

If Only …: With Guests Stirling Hart & Colin Camerer

In a past episode titled “Spoiled for Choice,” we looked at how decision-making can be hampered by our desire to avoid the painful emotion of regret. In fact, regret aversion can cause people to abandon certain decisions entirely.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look more closely at regret itself. Stirling Hart is a professional lumberjack. He’s also a world-class lumberjack sports athlete. He has travelled the world competing against the best of the best in events such as the underhand chop, the spring board, the single buck, and the standing block chop. These grueling and dangerous tasks require explosive strength, accuracy, and nerves of steel.In 2016, Stirling Hart represented Canada at the Stihl Timbersports® World Championship in Stuttgart, Germany. He was dominating the events until he came to the hot saw (an event involving a chainsaw built from a modified motorcycle engine). That’s when one split-second decision changed the course of the competition. You’ll hear how that one moment affected Stirling for months afterward.Stirling Hart lives and works in Squamish, British Columbia, Canada.Next, Katy speaks with Colin Camerer about the neuroscience of regret. Colin explains how regret arises and how it can affect our behavior, for better and for worse. You’ll hear about a fascinating study by Tom Gilovich identifying regret in Olympic medalists, and you’ll learn about the ways that regret can influence investment decisions. You’ll also gain valuable insight on how to minimize some of the negative effects of regret.Colin Camerer is a Robert Kirby Professor of Behavioral Finance and Economics at the California Institute of Technology, where he teaches cognitive psychology and economics. You can read more about regret in his paper “Neural Evidence of Regret and Its Implications for Investor Behavior.”Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal. (1020-081T)
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Sep 28, 2020 • 35min

I Don’t Want to Know: With Guests Amelia Boone & Emily Ho

For some people, the check engine light on their car dashboard means an immediate trip to the repair shop. But for others, it represents a nagging unpleasant feeling that’s best to be avoided. So they put it out of their mind for as long as they can. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we examine the tendency to avoid or ignore certain information when it may be uncomfortable or inconvenient.Amelia Boone is a high achiever. Within a short time of taking up the grueling sport of obstacle course racing, she was winning world championships. At the top of her game, she went looking for other challenges, and eventually took up ultra-running—where athletes compete in races longer than marathons, sometimes as long as 100 miles! Again, Amelia quickly rose to the upper echelons of this elite club of athletes.But then the injuries began. You’ll hear about Amelia’s attitude of pushing through the pain and training harder—an attitude that nearly destroyed her athletic career. When her injuries finally sidelined her from racing, Amelia realized that she’d been ignoring a crucial aspect of her health. Amelia Boone is an obstacle racer, ultra-runner, and attorney living in Colorado.Next, Emily Ho joins Katy to talk about the science behind this tendency to avoid certain types of information. She explains how the phenomenon impacts investors, medical patients, and employees, and she illustrates the perils of ignoring uncomfortable facts.Emily Ho is a research assistant professor at Northwestern University’s Department of Medical Social Sciences. You can read more about information avoidance in the research paper she co-authored with George Loewenstein and David Hagmann.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.(0920-0817)
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Sep 14, 2020 • 41min

A Successful Failure: With Guests Cass Sunstein, Kirabo Jackson & Andrew Chaikin

You’ve probably had the annoying experience of going to a store to pick up a few things, only to leave having forgotten at least one of them. That’s likely due to the challenge of holding more than one piece of information in your working memory while you shop, not to mention the effects of time pressure, distraction, and the procedural complexity of a seemingly simple trip to a store.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at effective tools for managing complex and time-sensitive procedures, from grocery shopping to space exploration.Fifty years ago, astronauts aboard the Apollo 13 lunar spacecraft radioed Mission Control with the now iconic phrase “Houston, we’ve had a problem.” A critical piece of equipment had exploded, putting the three crew member’s lives in extreme danger. What followed was a monumental problem-solving effort to bring the astronauts safely back to Earth.Historian Andrew Chaikin tells the harrowing story of Apollo 13, based on his interviews with NASA engineers and the Apollo crew. You’ll hear about the incredibly complex and dangerous procedures involved in piloting the hobbled ship and how Mission Control and the crew used a simple tool—the checklist—to help limit potential errors and manage complicated operations.Andrew Chaikin is the author of A Man on The Moon: The Voyages of The Apollo Astronauts.Next, Kirabo Jackson joins Katy to explain his work studying the effectiveness of checklists in a more down-to-earth setting: auto repair shops. You’ll hear how the implementation of checklists improved productivity and increased profits for shop owners. Kirabo Jackson is the Abraham Harris Professor of Education and Social Policy at Northwestern University. You can read more about his work in his research paper with Henry S. Schneider on checklists and worker behavior.Finally, Cass Sunstein discusses with Katy the more general topic of simplification. He explains how checklists and simplified processes can save governments and businesses money and time, as well as significantly increasing citizen participation in programs.Cass Sunstein is the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard Law School. He is also the founder and director of the Program on Behavioral Economics and Public Policy at Harvard Law School, former administrator of the U.S. government’s Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, and author of many books. His latest book is Too Much Information: Understanding What You Don’t Want to Know.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.(0920-0U2X)
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Aug 31, 2020 • 33min

Fair Is Fair: With Guests John Thorn & Richard Thaler

“Mom! Janey got more ice cream than me! Not fair!” For kids—and many adults—the notion of what’s fair or not often involves comparing quantities of some valuable thing. But there’s another, more nuanced concept of fairness that crops up in certain types of negotiations. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at what people perceive as fair or not amid changing circumstances.At the turn of the 20th century, professional baseball had entered what came to be known as the dead-ball era. Pitchers had a distinct advantage over batters, resulting in low-scoring games and a substantial drop in attendance. Owners and league officials decided they needed to change some rules to entice fans back to their stadiums. One option on the table was to ban the spitball.John Thorn explains the history of the spitball and other doctored pitches and describes the state of baseball at the time. While empty bleachers were clearly bad for the bottom line, the owners also recognized the problem of implementing a rule change that would likely destroy some pitchers’ careers. You’ll hear about the clever solution that the league arrived at to ensure a more exciting game without alienating their players.John Thorn is the official historian for Major League Baseball and the author of Baseball in the Garden of Eden: The Secret History of the Early Game.Next, Richard Thaler joins Katy to explain his pioneering work with Daniel Kahneman and Jack Knetsch in describing the principle of dual entitlement. You’ll hear about several different scenarios where the phenomenon occurs and how it relates to status quo bias.Richard Thaler is a Nobel Prize-winning economist and the Charles R. Walgreen Distinguished Service Professor of Behavioral Science and Economics at the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business. He is the author of several books, including Misbehaving: The Making Of Behavioral Economics.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.(1020-0XDB)
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21 snips
Aug 17, 2020 • 33min

Spoiled for Choice: With Guests Barry Schwartz & Jen Glantz

Traditional economic theory says that more choice should always be better than less. After all, if the cereal aisle has corn flakes, honey nut corn flakes, toasted coconut corn flakes, chocolate corn flakes, multi-grain flakes, and all the rest, you’ll surely be able to find the breakfast carbs that suit your taste buds perfectly. But it turns out that, in certain situations, more choices can be counterproductive.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how having too many options can sometimes produce anxiety, reduce satisfaction, and even lead us to abandon the decision we’d planned to make altogether.You’ll hear from professional bridesmaid (yes, that’s a real thing) Jen Glantz about her experiences supporting brides through the many decisions they face in planning a wedding. Jen has seen it all: the fatigue, the indecision, the anxiety, and the emotional toll that can result from managing myriad choices while planning the big day.Jen, herself, is now engaged to be married. But rather than subject herself to that giant list of wedding day choices, she has come up with a clever plan to offload the decision-making effort.Jen Glantz runs Bridesmaid for Hire and is based in Brooklyn, New York.  Barry Schwartz is an academic authority on this phenomenon. His book The Paradox of Choice challenged traditional economic theory about the utility of ever-expanding options in prosperous societies. Barry joins Katy to explain where choice overload occurs, and where it doesn’t, and to discuss the benefits of satisficing when it comes to choosing televisions or restaurants or blue jeans. Barry Schwartz is the Dorwin P. Cartwright Professor Emeritus of Social Theory and Social Action at Swarthmore College.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.(0820-03K4)
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May 11, 2020 • 34min

Bidder Beware: With Guests Max Bazerman & Glenye Cain Oakford

Have you ever bid in a competitive auction—say, on eBay—and won the item, only to see a similar item for sale elsewhere at a lower price? If so, you may have fallen prey to the winner’s curse.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at bias that can lead people to overpay in auctions and other types of negotiations.We begin with the story of Havre de Grace. This prize filly had an exceptionally successful career as a racehorse before being auctioned as a broodmare. Expectations were high for the sale because Havre de Grace had such a strong thoroughbred pedigree. But the way the auction proceeded surprised everyone in the room.Glenye Cain Oakford was at the Fasig-Tipton November Mixed Sale and paints a vivid picture of a dramatic bidding process. She is an award-winning journalist, writer, and videographer based in Lexington, Kentucky. She was the senior bloodstock correspondent at the Daily Racing Form at the time of the auctionSpecial thanks to Fasig-Tipton for use of the audio clips from the Havre de Grace auction.Max Bazerman has contributed important research to the study of the winner’s curse. He joins Katy to discuss the ways in which this phenomenon can affect purchasing decisions around everything from jewelry to oil leases—and how the bias can diminish your ability to negotiate successfully. Max Bazerman is the Jesse Isidor Straus Professor of Business at the Harvard Business School and the Harvard Kennedy School and the author of many books, including the upcoming book Better, Not Perfect: The Realist’s Guide to Maximum Sustainable Goodness, which will be released later this year by Harper Collins. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important Disclosures:All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.(0520-0BPD)

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