The Gentle Rebel Podcast

Adam Grant explores how our practice can lead to boreout in Hidden Potential. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I dive into this idea and reflect on the role of playfulness in maintaining our motivation with the things that matter most. We consider the distinctions between burnout and boreout and delve into the contrast between obsession and passion. I ask how the demands and pace of hustle culture might lead to chronic boredom. We look at why we need not stress about discovering our purpose and passion despite the societal messages we are bombarded with. “It is neither work nor play, purpose nor purposelessness that satisfies us. It is the dance between.” – Bernard de Koven Boreout is the emotional deadening you feel when you’re under-stimulated to the point of disconnection. But it might also occur when we are chronically overstimulated and unable to pause between life’s ceaseless bombardment of noise. Practice and Boreout Boreout is a phenomenon that often arises when we lose our sense of purposeful connection and intrinsic joy with the task at hand. When it comes to practice, it can turn into an obsessive slog rather than a meaningful journey towards progress and growth. Deliberate play isn’t about avoiding work. It’s about shifting our mentality and seeing how potential can be reached sustainably by finding ways to playfully engage in practice, learning, and growth. “You’re not supposed to enjoy it; it’s piano practice!” We fall into a trap with certain endeavours. We believe that practice ought to feel like a slog. This leads us to stories of forbidden fun. Some things are meant to feel like punishment. However, Adam Grant refers to a study conducted on renowned concert pianists, which revealed most of them practised the piano for just an hour a day during their early years, and they weren’t raised by controlling and dominating drill sergeants. Their passion ignited, and their parents and teachers gave them the conditions to maintain their motivation and enthusiasm. They practised, not because they had to, but because they were interested. They enjoyed working with teachers to explore the craft more; excited, engaged and wanted to learn, improve, and practice. When we treat it as something we’ve just got to repeat and repeat, practice can lead to boreout. It can also extinguish passion and cause us to resent things that used to be exciting and joyful. In the episode, I also explore: Harmonious passion vs obsessive passion and which is more useful How my drum teachers used deliberate play to keep me on track with my exams Why a lack of creative coaching led me to quit a football team Similarities between burnout and boreout How it can be more relaxing to create than to do nothing Why overstimulation can leave us bored and disconnected The way algorithms overstimulate our senses with sameness – and how variety and difference are sources of energy and inspiration Collective boreout through cultural drift How uncertainty gives rise to creativity, passion, and play (and the danger of trying to avoid it) And more…

Humour is a VERY important sense. Without it, we risk taking ourselves so seriously that we lose all perspective. Our sense of humour is a core part of gentleness (firm back, soft front) because it allows us to move through the world with greater flexibility and openness. We all have this sense! But it takes practice to remain humourously sensitised to the world around, within, and between us. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I share a Haven Courtyard conversation I had towards the end of 2023 with Roxana Alexandru and Neil Hughes. We explored how we might use humour to befriend anxiety and the inner critic in helpful and healthy ways. Rox helps people figure out ways to play with and change their relationship with debilitating social anxiety. She shares her experiments through Instagram and TikTok. Neil wrote the book Walking on Custard & the Meaning of Life: A Guide for Anxious Humans. It contains an inspiring ongoing meta dialogue with his inner critic throughout. Check out Neil’s website and watch his TEDx Talk (A new plan for anxious feelings: escape the custard!) I love how both Rox and Neil relate to the voice of their inner critics. So, I thought it would be fun to have them both on the same call…and I was right; it was! In our conversation, they explained why they felt drawn to use humour to engage with their inner critic and what they’ve learned. We Discuss Humour, Anxiety, Inner Critics, and… How can we work on our relationship with the inner critic in light-hearted ways? When is it better to be amused than anxious? Experimental ideas to take control over the process so that the fear doesn’t gain power over you. How Neil’s goal was to reach a point where he no longer needed to think/talk about anxiety. We explore how engaging with inner work as a temporary process (perhaps even obsession) can lead you to a light on the other side. The link between custard and anxiety and how seeing it through this metaphor can help identify and reach more solid and desirable ground. Situations and environments where social anxiety increases (and how to prepare/recover to avoid feedback loops) The simple power of being interested (rather than worrying about being interesting) The derailing fear of being misunderstood. Why we can never be prepared enough for every potential eventuality and how Neil engages with that truth in creatively humorous ways How scripting can help give a set of mental tools to draw on and use during times when we most need it Creating deliberate awkward moments helps the brain lean into discomfort on our terms. Why are our post-situational inner narratives often worse than the situations themselves – and how do we choose more favourable (and evidenced) narratives to believe? The sound of our inner critic (is it a voice? A narrative? Or a flavour?) How to relate to impostor feelings (or impostor syndrome) in a helpful and humourous way The stories we tell ourselves about appearances and how judgements by those around us about those around us can become internalised How do we gauge and measure progress with anxiety and the inner critic? And how do we recognise ways we have grown and are growing? Watch The Courtyard Replay Protected Content Are you a Haven member? Login to access this content. Not yet a member? Register here.

Exploring the misconceptions and controversies surrounding life coaching, the podcast delves into ethical standards, regulatory measures, and the need for industry regulation. Guest Megan Malone sheds light on the importance of professional accreditation and steering clear of harmful coaching practices. The discussion emphasizes the value of transparency, accountability, and ethical marketing in coaching, aiming to elevate the industry's reputation and integrity.

After experiencing challenges with panic attacks, Aaron Espe figured out how to build a career that works for him. Aaron is currently a full-time songwriter based in Nashville Tennessee. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I chat with Aaron about songwriting, creativity, and adapting to creative adversity. https://youtu.be/bUoUh5MIPNw I first heard his music in 2012 when I was presenting the music podcast, Lost on Radio. Aaron was our artist of the week with his track, Hanging By a Thread. I felt an instant connection to his sound and have been keeping a close ear on his work ever since. His book, On Songwriting: Practical Tips and Insights from a Decade in Music City will be an important part of my reference library from now on. It’s a fantastic guide for anyone creating things to help rekindle focus, clarity, and a sense of possibility. In our conversation, Aaron Espe and I discuss: The importance of being adaptable and flexible in a creative career (and being unable to co-write songs led Aaron to write a book) What inspired him to carve his own path rather than taking the conventional songwriting routes he was “supposed” to follow The GPS Method and The Painting Method for writing songs (and which we naturally gravitate to) Where inspiration comes from and processes for writing when it’s not there The power of co-writing as a way to grow your skills and network And much more…

I’m always slightly wary about the use of “superpower” to describe high sensitivity. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, Scott Barry Kaufman and I discuss research around high sensitivity and the implications of elevating human traits as superpowers. https://youtu.be/Zm9DAZV9-iU Sensitivity is a “Beautiful and Complex Trait” Scott points out that sensory processing sensitivity is one of many beautiful and complex human traits that make us who we are. He suggests that any trait can be a so-called superpower if we harness it as such and it’s about learning to integrate and harness sensitivity in helpful and healthy ways. There have been some interesting (and challenging) studies in the past couple of years looking at portrayals of sensitivity in Western culture. Scott wrote an article for Psychology Today responding to a study examining links between high sensitivity and vulnerable narcissism. Signalling Sensitivity Scott wrote another piece highlighting research into how some people misappropriate the trait of high sensitivity to seek certain benefits. This research found “zero correlation between sensory processing sensitivity and signalling high sensitivity.” In other words, between those with the trait and those who make unreasonable demands using the trait as an excuse. This research found “zero correlation between sensory processing sensitivity and signalling high sensitivity.” In other words, between those with the trait and those who make demands using the trait as an excuse. For example… Asking for privileges because of sensitivity Receiving special treatment because of sensitivity Requesting help because of sensitivity Avoiding penalties because of sensitivity Blaming mistakes on sensitivity Telling people how hard life is because of sensitivity Most of the highly sensitive people I’ve talked to about this list recoil in discomfort at the idea of using their sensitive trait in this way. Especially if it involves making a fuss, receiving special treatment, or requiring others to go above and beyond just for us. In some ways, these indicate a kind of superpower to sensitivity. But not in a way that benefits society (which is what I always thought was the point of a superpower). The Potential of Sensitivity Scott writes, “A beautiful and complex trait has become co-opted by some people as a victim-signalling strategy– “a public and intentional expression of one’s disadvantages, suffering, oppression, or personal limitations.” Indeed, recent research suggests that victim signalling is becoming increasingly prevalent in our society and can be viewed as an expression of a “culture of victimhood” in which claiming to be a victim isn’t in the service of receiving help and assistance for a genuine disadvantage but instead becomes something actually desirable and fashionable in itself.” I believe highly sensitive people have a powerful role to play in the collective potential of humanity. When combined with genuine empathy and compassion, sensitivity senses what needs to be sensed. It feels deeply for the whole and seeks ways to connect rather than drive apart. About Scott Barry Kaufman Scott Barry Kaufman is a humanistic psychologist exploring the depths of human potential. He received his PhD in cognitive psychology from Yale University and an M.Phil in experimental psychology from Cambridge. He has taught courses on intelligence, creativity, and well-being at Columbia, NYU, and the University of Pennsylvania. Scott is the author of Ungifted, Wired To Create, Transcend, and Choose Growth. He hosts The Psychology Podcast. In 2015, he was named one of “50 Groundbreaking Scientists who are changing the way we see the world” by Business Insider. Visit Scott’s website to learn more.

In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I sit down with artist Ben Cowan who kindly invited me into his kitchen for a chat about “Art That Makes You Think”. Through his visual satire, Ben adds dark and comedic twists to many of the familiar logos, brands, and packaging that have become part of our cultural furniture. I first encountered Ben earlier this year at the Spark-Ignite symposium at the Royal Spa Centre in Leamington. He appeared on a panel called “Creativity Against The Odds” and shared his fascinating artist origin story. His philosophical outlook grabbed my attention, so I was keen to follow up and invite him onto the podcast. https://youtu.be/6GrXAfPpVX8 About Ben Ben spent many years working as a disaster relief specialist in war-torn countries. He says that he found it hard to process what stood for ‘normal life’ when he returned. Without the urgent sense of physical threat, the threat of normal life took on a different form of existential threat. He describes this as a catalyst for him to create art that makes people think but also laugh. Art That Makes You Think (and Laugh) I often reflect on the role of art in our individual and collective lives. Sometimes, it needs to provoke and prod us out of numbing slumbers. It can teach us to feel, call us to action, and connect us with a deeper sense of meaning. In recent years, I’ve noticed a tendency towards people creating art that tries telling us WHAT to think. Ben holds up a mirror to the propagandistic properties of art with an agenda. He is inspired by Yuval Noah Harari, who talks about the Four C’s. Collaborate, Communicate, Critical Thinking, and Creativity, are core characteristics of a successful society. Art is a crucial part of engaging us in HOW to think. It helps us explore WHY we think what we think. And gives us awareness of the influences (and noise) that contributes to our beliefs and opinions, so we can hold them to more cast-iron scrutiny. In our conversation, we discuss: The relationship between art and thought – what is “art that makes you think”? The role art plays in exploring ‘the good life’ Our cultural and creative “elders” (figures who have had a profound long-term influence on us as artists and human beings) AI, creativity, and human connection Doppelganger – Naomi Klein’s book about the Mirror World The artist in each of us – the difference between the commercially viable self and the creatively curious self…is it possible to encounter ourselves outside of the capitalist system? Explore Ben’s work through his website: www.artthatmakesyouthink.com. Check out his ‘Ideas Worth Wearing’ shop on Redbubble. Ben also writes a regular blog: BEN TALKS – Ideas Worth Sharing. Follow him on Instagram. Links/Resources Mentioned in The Conversation: Sapiens (Yuval Noah Harari) Bill Hicks in London No Logo (Naomi Klein) Doppelganger (Naomi Klein) The Courage To Be Disliked (Kishimi and Koga) How This AI Image Won a Major Photography Competition The Big Issue: The brave new world of AI therapy

Alan Denyer, a changed man who turned a building due for demolition into a creative community space, discusses the creative potential of physical spaces, the transformative power of the LTB Showrooms, and the belief that people aren't boring. They also explore the motivation behind contributing to community projects, the value of accessible spaces for creativity, and the impact of music in bringing people together.

How do you respond when things don’t turn out as you hoped they would? It was lovely to pause for a chat with my friend, Cameron Airen recently. It had been a while since our previous recorded conversation (back in 2018). A lot has changed for all of us since then! Cam is no exception. On this weeks episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, we discuss what happens when things don’t turn out as hoped. We explore areas of work/business, relationships, and hobbies. How do we not take it personally when our endeavours don’t turn out as we hoped? What tells us when it’s time to cut our losses and let go? How do we get through it? How do we know where to go next? Cameron and I discussed how we rarely hear people discuss things going wrong, but it’s refreshing to do so. It helps us feel less lonely and more connected. I want to amplify those people trying to muddle along, living meaningful lives in ordinary ways. This might also serve as a small antidote to the dehumanising effects of celebrity culture, where we focus on turning people we don’t know into gods and monsters for entertainment. https://youtu.be/lmaY-LvqLNk Role Models in Real Life I want to avoid Survivorship Bias as much as possible by sharing incomplete stories that do not have neat endings that wind up at the destination of “All’s Well That Ends Well”. So it was strangely satisfying to talk about situations where things have not turned out as hoped, and how disappointing that has been for us at times. We need more role models who are learning to adapt to the ups and downs of everyday life. People who can roll with the punches and engage with creative spirit and purpose amid “ordinary unhappiness”. We connect with each other on the building sites of loss, in our collective grief, and through shared moments of bittersweet melancholy. From there, we can create a more meaningful and sustainable sense of hope for the future. Connect with Cameron’s Instagram and website.

In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dorcas Cheng-Tozun about her book Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul. We explored how highly sensitive people (HSPs) are drawn towards social justice work. We also discussed the unique challenges they face when engaging with the world’s most urgent issues. If you are a sensitive soul who cares deeply about the world but struggles with overwhelm and burnout, this conversation will resonate with you. Why Highly Sensitive People Are Drawn to Social Justice Dorcas spoke movingly about how highly sensitive people are naturally attuned to the needs of others. With nervous systems wired to pick up on subtle cues, many HSPs are drawn to justice work because they notice injustices others might miss. This isn’t about having a “superpower”. Instead, it’s simply an innate responsiveness to relational and communal dynamics. It’s a deep discomfort when something feels wrong, and a strong desire to restore harmony. We discussed how this impulse is tied to our biological imperative for survival. Communities thrive when they care for all members, and sensitive individuals often instinctively understand this. Yet, in today’s interconnected world, the relentless exposure to global suffering can be overwhelming. Our systems are not designed to carry the emotional weight of the entire world at once. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2nNqy6pwI Finding Sustainable Ways to Engage One of the central themes of our conversation was the importance of sustaining ourselves over the long term. Dorcas shared her personal experience with cycles of burnout and the hard-won wisdom that emerged from them. We talked about: How highly sensitive and introverted people can engage with social issues without losing their critical thinking or emotional resilience Why traditional activist models – centred on confrontation and constant action – can sometimes be off-putting or unsustainable for sensitive individuals The need to cultivate rhythms of engagement and retreat, allowing space for reflection, restoration, and perspective Dorcas emphasised that healthy activism doesn’t demand endless sacrifice. Instead, it invites us to participate in ways that align with our natural strengths. This includes building relationships, creating beauty, fostering understanding, and encouraging quieter, but no less powerful, forms of change. Letting Go of the Hero Complex An important aspect we explored was the individual hero narrative that permeates much activism. There can be a dangerous sense that if we step back, the world will collapse. There is also a thought that we alone must carry the burden of fixing it. Dorcas shared how her own experiences of profound burnout revealed the unsustainable nature of this mindset. True social change, she reminded us, is the result of many people playing their part. It is not a handful of individuals doing everything. Trusting the bigger picture – and trusting each other – is crucial. This mindset shift allows sensitive people to engage more sustainably, without sacrificing their wellbeing in the process. What Gives Us Hope When the world feels bleak, it is easy to fall into despair. Yet, as Dorcas said, one of the greatest causes for hope is the growing recognition that we need a diversity of approaches to social change. Importantly, not every activist needs to lead marches or shout the loudest. There is profound value in quiet, consistent work – in building bridges, tending to relationships, creating art, innovating solutions, or simply living with kindness and integrity. Sensitive souls are uniquely positioned to offer these contributions. As Dorcas so beautifully put it, “The world needs people who have come alive.” Engaging with issues that matter to us should bring a sense of vitality and purpose, not constant exhaustion and defeat. About Dorcas and Social Justice For The Sensitive Soul Dorcas Cheng-Tozen is an award-winning writer, editor, speaker, and international communications consultant. She has nearly twenty years of experience working with nonprofits and social enterprises and living in mainland China, Hong Kong, and Kenya. Dorcas currently lives in California with her husband and two sons. Social justice work, we often assume, involves raised voices and raised fists. It requires leading, advocating, fighting, and organizing wherever it takes place–including in the streets, slums, villages, inner cities, and halls of political power. But what does social justice work look like for those of us who don’t feel comfortable battling in the trenches? Social Justice For The Sensitive Soul addresses this question. Website: www.chengtozun.comSocial media: Instagram, Facebook, Linkedin

Justin Sunseri, an expert in Polyvagal Theory and a professional counselor, joins the podcast to discuss the transformative role of Polyvagal Theory in trauma recovery. They explore the science of safety and being stuck, the different defensive autonomic states, and the significance of recognizing dominant states. They also address the reliance on unsubstantiated metaphors in coaching, teaching self-regulation, and finding more information about Polyvagal Theory.