The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comChristine is a columnist for Commentary and a co-host of The Commentary Magazine Podcast. She’s also a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a fellow at UVA’s Institute for Advanced Studies in Culture. The author of many books, her new one is The Extinction of Experience: Being Human in a Disembodied World.For two clips of our convo — on algorithms killing serendipity, and smartphones killing quiet moments — pop over to our YouTube page.Other topics: the optimism of the early Internet; IRL (In Real Life) experience vs. screen experience; Taylor Swift concerts; the online boon for the physically disabled; Taylor Lorenz and Covid; how IRL improves memory; how emojis improve tone; how screens hinder in-person debate; sociologist Erving Goffman; tourists who never experience a place without an audience; Eric Schmidt’s goal of “manufacturing serendipity”; Zuckerberg’s “frictionless” world; dating apps; the decline of IRL flirting; the film Cruising; the pornification of sex; Matthew Crawford and toolmaking; driverless cars; delivery robots in LA; auto-checkouts at stores; the loss of handwriting; reading your phone on the toilet; our increased comfort with surveillance; the Stasi culture of Nextdoor; the mass intimacy of blogging; Oakeshott and “the deadliness of doing”; the film Into Great Silence; Christine’s time at a monastery in Kentucky; Musk’s drive to extend life indefinitely; Jon Haidt and kids’ phones; trans ideology as gnosticism; the popularity of podcasts; music pollution in public; the skatepark at Venice Beach; and the necessity of downtime.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Aaron Zelin on the fall of Assad; Brianna Wu and Kelly Cadigan on trans lives and politics, Mary Matalin on our sick culture, Adam Kirsch on his book On Settler Colonialism, Nick Denton, and John Gray on the state of liberal democracy. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

David Greenberg, a historian, journalist, and professor at Rutgers University, discusses his book on John Lewis, a pivotal figure in the civil rights movement. He explores Lewis's childhood in Alabama, his early inspirations from MLK's sermons, and his commitment to non-violence. The conversation highlights the tense moments of Bloody Sunday and the cliffhanger at the bridge, showcasing Lewis's brave leadership. Greenberg also shares insights into the evolving dynamics of civil rights activism, reflecting on both respectability politics and emerging radicalism.

Reihan Salam, writer and president of the Manhattan Institute, shares insights on identity and immigration rooted in his Brooklyn upbringing. He discusses how legal immigration enriches cities and the importance of cultural assimilation. The conversation critiques victimhood culture and emphasizes the need for a cohesive American identity amidst diversity. Reihan also reflects on meritocracy, the evolution of political beliefs, and the balance between individualism and social democracy. His engaging anecdotes shed light on how personal narratives shape political landscapes.

Anderson Cooper, a prominent broadcast journalist and CNN anchor, dives deep into personal loss and grief. He shares poignant stories of losing his brother to suicide, and how he sought solace in war zones. The heartfelt conversation also touches on the AIDS crisis, revealing the immense emotional toll it took on the LGBTQ+ community. Together, they reminisce about friends lost to the disease and explore themes of love, connection, and societal stigma. With moments of vulnerability, they reflect on healing through music and the complexities of navigating grief.

Damon Linker, a political writer and editor known for his sharp insights on American politics, dives into Trump's unexpected revival as a formidable force. He discusses how Trump transformed from a laughingstock to a key influencer, tapping into overlooked voter segments. The conversation touches on the backlash against elites, the nuanced dynamics of immigration, and the implications of a potential second Trump term, revealing the complexities of modern political sentiment and the changing landscape of voter motivations.

Musa al-Gharbi, a sociologist and assistant professor at Stony Brook University, discusses his book 'We Have Never Been Woke,' exploring cultural contradictions within elite circles. He shares insights on how elite overproduction fuels wokeness and critiques white privilege narratives that often overlook the challenges faced by poorer whites. Musa also delves into the complexities of the transgender debate, advocating for fairness in sports while addressing mental health implications for children questioning their gender. His journey through diverse faiths, including his transition to Islam, adds depth to his perspectives on freedom and constraints.

Sam Harris, a renowned neuroscientist, philosopher, and author, shares thought-provoking insights on the political landscape as the election approaches. He discusses Trump's controversial policies, including his deportation plans and the dynamics of his cult-like following. Harris critiques the lack of a grassroots movement and examines Kamala Harris's campaign strategies. The conversation dives into issues of identity politics and the shifting views within the Democratic Party, urging a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding current political narratives.

Tina Brown is a celebrated media executive and author, known for revitalizing iconic publications like Vanity Fair and The New Yorker. In this engaging conversation, she discusses the personal cruelty of Donald Trump, reflecting on his impact on public sanity and political dynamics. They explore the current state of the GOP, race relations, and the challenges faced by conservative voices in liberal media. Tina also shares insights from her new Substack, which tackles political anxieties and the emotional toll of cancel culture.

Walter Kirn, a celebrated novelist and journalist best known for "Up in the Air," dives deep into his Midwestern roots, reflecting on a whimsical childhood filled with colorful characters. He shares his transformative experience of attending Princeton, contrasting it with his humble upbringing. The conversation takes an intriguing turn as Kirn recounts watching Obama and Trump speeches on LSD, revealing perceptions of American identity, the struggles of rural towns after NAFTA, and the unexpected complexity of Midwestern populism.

Bill Wasik, Editorial Director of The New York Times Magazine, and Monica Murphy, a veterinarian and writer, dive into the evolution of animal welfare in America. They discuss the impactful role of Henry Bergh, founder of the ASPCA, in reforming animal treatment. The couple highlights the unusual connections between animal rights and the abolitionist movement, as well as the historical exploitation of animals for fashion. They also examine humanity's emotional bond with dogs and the responsibility of pet ownership throughout history.