Change Signal
Michael Bungay Stanier
If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast.Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works.Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what doesn’t, and what to try instead. With Change Signal as your guide, you’ll be more efficient and less overwhelmed, and your change projects will more likely succeed.Change Signal: Where we cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. Sign up for weekly updates at TheChangeSignal.com
Episodes
Mentioned books
27 snips
Sep 3, 2025 • 27min
Training's Biggest Blind Spot Revealed: Julie Dirksen
Julie Dirksen, an expert in instructional design, dives into why most corporate training misses the mark. She highlights the often ignored immediate relevance in learning and how organizational changes can impact professional identities. Through her intriguing printer repair experiment, she reveals that engagement hinges on timely application rather than flashy content. Dirksen introduces the elephant-rider metaphor to explain the disconnect between rational understanding and emotional responses, urging a deeper approach to fostering real behavior change in organizations.
36 snips
Aug 27, 2025 • 24min
Your Brain on Change: Prof Dan Cable
Dan Cable, a Professor of Organizational Behaviour at London Business School, dives into the neuroscience of change. He discusses how fear-based management hinders transformation and emphasizes the importance of curiosity in driving innovation. Cable introduces the 'seeking system' in our brains, advocating for autonomy over control to foster an adaptable workplace. Real-world examples, like a cost-effective KLM social media campaign, illustrate how embracing uncertainty can lead to significant success while enhancing employee well-being through dopamine engagement.
24 snips
Aug 20, 2025 • 22min
Three Paths Through Failure. A CEO, a counsellor, a consultant
A CEO, a counselor, and a consultant reveal how embracing failure can transform leadership. They discuss the irony of powerlessness being a superpower and share innovative strategies for fostering safety and empowerment in teams. Discover how redefining mistakes as 'learning moments' can change workplace culture. They emphasize the importance of humility and autonomy in leading change, flipping conventional wisdom on its head. This episode is packed with counterintuitive insights that challenge traditional management playbooks.
33 snips
Aug 15, 2025 • 23min
Should You Lie About Change? Michael Bungay Stanier solo episode
Change is likened to orienteering through fog rather than following a set GPS route. Organizations often prioritize efficiency when they truly need to embrace experimentation. The speaker highlights that small, low-risk experiments can provide a more sane approach to navigating change, with strategies to win over skeptical stakeholders. Fascinatingly, kindergarteners outperform MBA graduates in innovation challenges. This fresh perspective on adaptation offers a roadmap for effective transformation without the usual delusions of control.
39 snips
Aug 13, 2025 • 26min
Are Your Meetings Killing Change? Keith McCandless
Keith McCandless, co-author of The Surprising Power of Liberating Structures, discusses transformative approaches to meetings that often stifle change. He reveals five hidden patterns that exclude vital input from participants and introduces simple facilitation techniques, like Creative Destruction, that foster breakthrough conversations. McCandless emphasizes the need for greater autonomy and responsibility in teams, encouraging leaders to cultivate deeper confidence in their members. The chat is both insightful and refreshingly candid about shaking up the conventional meeting model.
52 snips
Aug 6, 2025 • 30min
Why Stories Matter More: Jennifer Garvey Berger
In this conversation with Jennifer Garvey Berger, a complexity and change leadership expert, listeners discover how connectivity trumps individual talent in navigating change. She argues that small, fun experiments can yield insights without overwhelming planning. Jennifer also highlights the significance of stories and narratives as early indicators of transformation, often preceding numerical evidence. This practical wisdom provides a fresh perspective on leading in unpredictable environments, emphasizing the value of diverse viewpoints and adaptive mindsets.
56 snips
Jul 30, 2025 • 30min
Can You Change Yesterday's People? Mark Surman, Mozilla
Mark Surman, President of Mozilla, dives into the chaos of transforming a 25-year-old organization for the AI era. He candidly shares his journey of replacing 60% of the staff and questioning core values around privacy and open source. Surman discusses overcoming the 'righteousness stick' used by employees resistant to change and emphasizes the importance of separate structures for innovation. He offers practical communication advice and reflects on the challenges leaders face in balancing legacy and future growth amidst rapid technological shifts.
57 snips
Jul 23, 2025 • 26min
Is Your Organization Change Allergic? Anne Gotte
Anne Gotte, SVP Global Talent & Organization Effectiveness at Mondelēz and seasoned change leader from Bumble, Ecolab, and General Mills, dives into the messy realities of organizational transformation. She discusses why traditional change management is outdated, advocating for a focus on building ongoing change capacity instead. Gotte emphasizes the importance of asking tough questions about current practices and accepting discomfort as part of the process. Her insights challenge leaders to navigate change with clarity while embracing uncertainty, ultimately redefining how organizations manage transformation.
27 snips
Jul 16, 2025 • 37min
Start with the Gnarliest Problem: Rodney Evans
Rodney Evans, a partner at TheReady, specializes in solving tough cross-functional problems within organizations. She emphasizes that change work should focus on continuous evolution rather than being a one-off project. Her depth-finding model reveals how hiring practices impact strategy and rewards. Rodney highlights the uncomfortable truth that broken patterns persist because they serve unspoken benefits. By addressing the 'gnarliest problem' and engaging in small, meaningful interventions, organizations can shift from dysfunction to effective change.
85 snips
Jul 9, 2025 • 34min
The Imperfection Advantage: Charles Conn
Charles Conn, a former McKinsey partner and current chair of Patagonia's board, challenges conventional wisdom on transformation. He argues that rigid strategic planning can hinder progress, advocating for small experiments that foster learning. Conn emphasizes the importance of listening to critics and diverse perspectives to spark innovation. He shares a practical matrix for prioritizing challenges and highlights how a consumer-centric approach transformed orthodontics. His insights bring battle-tested wisdom to navigating change in today's fast-paced world.
